What does this mean?

[logand02]

Got this from Monday Morning Quarterback....... Interesting.


"Hawgs Illustrated @HImagazine  ·  1h 1 hour ago
Arkansas head coach Bret Bielema just noted in his post-game remarks there is a chance to add a DL signee that could help before the fall.

Bielema says Arkansas will likely sign 18 to 22 players in the 2016 class."

Why would we sign such a low number?

[Dan42AR]

The only thing I can think of is that he expects to keep just about everyone he signs with an 85 man limit if you don't lose some then you run out of room to sign very many.

[nwahogfan1]

Got this from Monday Morning Quarterback....... Interesting.


"Hawgs Illustrated @HImagazine  ·  1h 1 hour ago
Arkansas head coach Bret Bielema just noted in his post-game remarks there is a chance to add a DL signee that could help before the fall.

Bielema says Arkansas will likely sign 18 to 22 players in the 2016 class."

Why would we sign such a low number?

Coach only used 24 scholarships in last years class.  He can sign one more to make 25.

He says he is going to reward several walkon's with scholarships in the fall.  Woo Pigs

[Music City Hog]

I don't understand how BB says we have depth problems and the. Follows it up with we are only gonna sign 18-22 because we awarding some walk ins schollies. 

I'm all for walk ons earning schollies, but if we need depth then use all 25.  We never use all 25 schollies.  I don't get it at all. 

[Scott7703]

I don't understand how BB says we have depth problems and the. Follows it up with we are only gonna sign 18-22 because we awarding some walk ins schollies. 

I'm all for walk ons earning schollies, but if we need depth then use all 25.  We never use all 25 schollies.  I don't get it at all. 

I agree with you. Reward the walkons all you can but we still need too be signing full classes.

[Hawgvillain]

I don't understand how BB says we have depth problems and the. Follows it up with we are only gonna sign 18-22 because we awarding some walk ins schollies. 

I'm all for walk ons earning schollies, but if we need depth then use all 25.  We never use all 25 schollies.  I don't get it at all. 

Did he actually say we would only take that many "because" we were awarding scholarships to walk-ons?  Scholarships for walk-ons are 1 yr contracts, right?  I would be surprised if that was the reason for us taking 18-22.

I think taking 20ish guys is a good sign.  It shows we are retaining our guys -- which is probably the #1 most important thing in developing a successful program.

I think the "depth issues" are as a result of our roster being very heavy at the sophomore/rs fresh/freshman levels.  It doesn't mean those guys aren't worthy of a scholarship -- just that they are unproven and until they prove themselves, we will feel a bit uneasy relying on them. 

[rzrbackramsfan]

Maybe he said that because he wants the recruits to sign now or else fear they won't have a spot.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

I don't understand how BB says we have depth problems and the. Follows it up with we are only gonna sign 18-22 because we awarding some walk ins schollies. 

I'm all for walk ons earning schollies, but if we need depth then use all 25.  We never use all 25 schollies.  I don't get it at all. 

There has to be a reason, and with that guys track record I would assume he's right and that I'm wrong... BUT you can ask. I just don't believe anyone on Hogville can give you the right answer.

[BornaHog]

I don't understand how BB says we have depth problems and the. Follows it up with we are only gonna sign 18-22 because we awarding some walk ins schollies. 

I'm all for walk ons earning schollies, but if we need depth then use all 25.  We never use all 25 schollies.  I don't get it at all.

85 / 5 = 17  Just something to think about. If there is no losses due to grades or transfers or arrests, that is all you could sign a year. This is pretty simple math. In Wisconsin he averaged, I believe, 18 a year. I think I saw that statement in an article last year, and no, I'm not going to try to find the link to the article.

[Music City Hog]

85 / 5 = 17  Just something to think about. If there is no losses due to grades or transfers or arrests, that is all you could sign a year. This is pretty simple math. In Wisconsin he averaged, I believe, 18 a year. I think I saw that statement in an article last year, and no, I'm not going to try to find the link to the article.

Well we need to join the elite and start culling dead weight.  The great teams don't keep kids that can't play or contribute.  This isn't little league.  Sign a full class like every other sec team please. 

[jjdlc]

I don't understand how BB says we have depth problems and the. Follows it up with we are only gonna sign 18-22 because we awarding some walk ins schollies. 

I'm all for walk ons earning schollies, but if we need depth then use all 25.  We never use all 25 schollies.  I don't get it at all.

He never said that it was because he was awarding scholarships to walkons. 

You can have 85 on scholarship, period.  Guess what, 18-20 is going to put us at capacity.   The guaranteed scholarship rule they put in this year is going to make it that much harder for teams to stay under that 85 cap as well.  If you give someone a scholarship, you better be sure you want them there as they will have to willingly leave, or at least do something worthy of being expelled, for you to get the slot back.

[Bacon_Bitz]

Well we need to join the elite and start culling dead weight.  The great teams don't keep kids that can't play or contribute.  This isn't little league.  Sign a full class like every other sec team please.

The "great" teams also lose a few highly rated players ever year b/c of disciplinary issues, so they have room to sign a full class (but yes, they also just push players out a la Tenpenny).  So many "elite" recruits don't pan out.

[ricepig]

Well we need to join the elite and start culling dead weight.  The great teams don't keep kids that can't play or contribute.  This isn't little league.  Sign a full class like every other sec team please. 

I'll be sure and tell him that you said to run some off, he'll appreciate it. We have a small Sr class, so I expect less than 25. Time will tell if it's really only 18, I'd think it would be closer to the 22 number.

[BornaHog]

Well we need to join the elite and start culling dead weight.  The great teams don't keep kids that can't play or contribute.  This isn't little league.  Sign a full class like every other sec team please.

  11 x 2 = 22 O some key positions you need 3 deep, so + 5 or 6    27 or 28 needed for offense

  Same thing for defense, so another 27 or 28. So you need at least 54 to 56 ready to play now.

Add your 17 or 18 freshmen that hopefully you can redshirt, unless they are just too good to redshirt. that brings you to 71 to 74 solid schollies.

   Oh, by the way you have 2 to 6 kickers and a couple of holders. That makes another 8 or 9 total on the special teams that are not going to do anything else, bringing the grand total to 80 to 83. That gives CBB 2 to 5 schollies to give to walkons that deserve a one year break on the cost of going to school, for doing a great job and really wanting to be a HOG. Something I have no problem with him doing.   WPS    :razorback: :razorback: :razorback: :razorback: :razorback: :razorback:   GHG

[factchecker]

The age of taking away a scholarship due to athletic performance is on the way out:

2015 NCAA Rule Change

"The multi-year scholarships will replace the current model, which had been a one-year scholarship renewable on a yearly basis."

"Because of the guaranteed scholarship, schools will not be permitted to rid their roster of a player who they deem to be underachieving athletically. Academics or off-the-field issues, including but not limited to failed drug tests and arrests, would allow schools the opportunity to strip a player of his/her scholarship."

link:
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/17/cost-of-attendance-multi-year-scholarships-approved/

The only alternative is to remove a player due to disciplinary reasons (failed drug test), academics, or criminal charges. 

[factchecker]

Well we need to join the elite and start culling dead weight.  The great teams don't keep kids that can't play or contribute.  This isn't little league.  Sign a full class like every other sec team please.

I guess we can be elite like Tenner and sign 30 a year.  However, they have a built in roster spot eliminator. They have had 14 (counting Von Pearson allegation) arrests since ol' Butch has been there.  Not to mention two of their players being charged with rape. I guessing someone on this board has a daughter on the Hill and appreciates Coach B being diligent with his recruiting.

Plus, what was Tennessee's record last year? Same as us? In the SEC East?  Oh well...... look at all dem fancy stars!

links:

http://arrestnation.com/teamsschools/university-of-tennessee/

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/25162077/vols-von-pearson-named-suspect-in-alleged-rape

[HogWall Jackson]

Well we need to join the elite and start culling dead weight.  The great teams don't keep kids that can't play or contribute.  This isn't little league.  Sign a full class like every other sec team please.

Can we all say, "Tenpenny?" Another guy by the name of Frazier may never make the field there either?

[Music City Hog]

Just get rid of the players that have no chance to contribute and sign full classes.

We are one of the only sec schools that seem to never sign 25. 

This isn't youth league soccer. If you're not gonna play then you have to go.  It's business.

[factchecker]

Just get rid of the players that have no chance to contribute and sign full classes.

We are one of the only sec schools that seem to never sign 25. 

This isn't youth league soccer. If you're not gonna play then you have to go.  It's business.

Did you not see my link to the rule change?  The practice of revoking scholarships based on athletic performance is coming to an end.  In the future, you won't be able to do what you are saying.

[factchecker]

I'm glad they are getting rid of the one year scholarship.  It's complete bull shi^  that a school can essentially "terminate" you from a position but you can't transfer to a better job.  For example,  Saban was able to either cut or "persuade" Tenpenny to leave.  However, he was able to hamstring him and say "NO NO, don't think about going to a SEC school"

Could you imagine being fired from a job then being told where you could or could not work after?

[Music City Hog]

Did you not see my link to the rule change?  The practice of revoking scholarships based on athletic performance is coming to an end.  In the future, you won't be able to do what you are saying.

Don't be naive.  Of course you will.  that rule won't change things for 95% of kids. 

If a coach says "you'll never play a down here" and the kid doesn't bail then his life can be made miserable.   The rule will not change much at all.   If a coach wants to to get rid of a kid then he can and will.   

[Music City Hog]

I'm glad they are getting rid of the one year scholarship.  It's complete bull shi^  that a school can essentially "terminate" you from a position but you can't transfer to a better job.  For example,  Saban was able to either cut or "persuade" Tenpenny to leave.  However, he was able to hamstring him and say "NO NO, don't think about going to a SEC school"

Could you imagine being fired from a job then being told where you could or could not work after?

Um, that happens every day in business.  It's called a non-compete clause. 

[factchecker]

Um, that happens every day in business.  It's called a non-compete clause.

I guess it depends on the state:

" In a 1995 decision, the Pennsylvania Superior Court held that an employer who fires an employee for poor performance effectively deems the employee to be "worthless" and therefore, in most circumstances, cannot be heard to argue that the employee should not be permitted to compete against it. "

link: http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=f1eab2d5-0fda-4471-97a0-5731ace0c5dd

[greenie]

Um, that happens every day in business.  It's called a non-compete clause.

Non-competes don't hold if you're fired.

[factchecker]

Don't be naive.  Of course you will.  that rule won't change things for 95% of kids. 

If a coach says "you'll never play a down here" and the kid doesn't bail then his life can be made miserable.   The rule will not change much at all.   If a coach wants to to get rid of a kid then he can and will.

Life made miserable?  What exactly should a coach do?  So lets say we have a player who is attending classes, working hard during practice, never late, and is not causing problems.  However, for one reason or another, he is not living up to the hype.  He is dead weight or whatever you like to call him.  What should the coach do.  Run him tell he pukes.... for what?  I hate to tell you, the Junction Boys are long gone.  Social media has made it much easier for players to vent and give an inside look to any perceived "injustice". 

Do you really think it would be smart for Coach Bielema to take a player and bully him just to free a roster spot.  Should Coach B pay teachers to fail the player?  Plant drugs in their locker?  What exactly are you suggesting?

[luke hawg]

This is the way I look at it. Our depth problem is reflective of the lack of upperclassmen contributing on the 2 deep. Bielema believes the best way to level the playing field in acquiring talent on an 85 man roster is to decrease the number of players we have to bring in via traditional recruiting each year by minimizing attrition, redshirting, and the walk on program. Josh Harris, Josh Gipson, Tyler Colquitt, Kevin Richardson will all play valuable roles in our program. These kids earned scholarships but there are three times as many that won't. It allows us to evaluate more kids. It's how Nebraska became a powerhouse. We will never win playing the same game as Bama. Its all about acquiring as much talent as possible on a 85 man roster. It doesn't matter how you get there. He is minimizing the risk by taking less and making up the difference with three times as many three star walk ons. He can evaluate these athletes longer then select the best 1/3 each year. Traditional recruiting for us is a greater risk b/c 25 SEC caliber players are harder to come by given our geographic location but 18-20 is very doable. The man is smart.

[factchecker]

I'd like to add that sometimes a player isn't contributing simply due to the talent ahead of them.  Tenpenny is probably a good example of this.  After dismissing Tyren Jones (drugs) and losing Scarbrough to injury- I bet ol' Saban wouldn't mind having Tenpenny as a backup.

Another great example of this would be Kody Walker.  Prior to the 2014 season, I would be willing to bet most people would give him a C or D based on contributions. He was moved to fullback because Coach B  knew that despite the loaded backfield we had, Kody could help somewhere.

Fast forward to Spring 2015:  Korliss gone and Juan hurt.  Uh Oh, we are now thin in the backfield.  Good thing we didn't cut Kody, otherwise we would have been watching D. Evans or McPherson with the ones today.

[jjdlc]

Life made miserable?  What exactly should a coach do?  So lets say we have a player who is attending classes, working hard during practice, never late, and is not causing problems.  However, for one reason or another, he is not living up to the hype.  He is dead weight or whatever you like to call him.  What should the coach do.  Run him tell he pukes.... for what?  I hate to tell you, the Junction Boys are long gone.  Social media has made it much easier for players to vent and give an inside look to any perceived "injustice". 

Do you really think it would be smart for Coach Bielema to take a player and bully him just to free a roster spot.  Should we pay teachers to fail the player?  Plant drugs in their locker?  What exactly are you suggesting?

Agreed, in this day and age of social media, the coach that tries something like that will quickly be the next Mike Leach. 

Really, the only viable tool a coach will have is playing time.  Most players not receiving any will move on of their own free will, but your going to have a few that decide to leach the free education, or just do enough academically so they can continue to party for 4-5 years.

[factchecker]

Sorry, thought of another example.

A.J. Derby

Post 2013 season: A.J. was called Derpy more times than Derby.  People claimed nepotism due to Coach B's friendship with A.J.'s dad.  A.J. was hated. People wanted him to be cut from the team, even though he was a walk on.

Pre 2014 season: Coach commits the ultimate sin he gives "Derpy" a scholarship.
Why would he do that? Nepotism I tell ya. Nepotism.  Derby won't amount to anything regardless of position. blah blah blah

2014 season: Derby was a monster at the tight end position.
Good thing we didn't cut him.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Just get rid of the players that have no chance to contribute and sign full classes.

We are one of the only sec schools that seem to never sign 25. 

This isn't youth league soccer. If you're not gonna play then you have to go.  It's business.

Not trying to be argumentative with what I'm about to say. However, as you appear to have the insight into what needs to be done I'd recommend you make your views and opinions known to CBB and staff. I'm sure they'd love to hear your thoughts and suggestions. BTW while we may not have filled each slot as of yet for this class we've managed to the previous two. Even if a schollie is given to a walk on in the end what does it matter? Perhaps Bret feels that holding one back for a kid who he feels is deserving actually pays dividends for us down the road. I know one thing: it's been a long time since we've had the amount of interest from kids not necessarily being courted by other hot shot programs. I have a strong hunch that much sooner rather that later the opportunities CBB gives some of these kids will pay major returns and hopefully in a big way. BTW the poster just ahead of me brought up the names of two kids who some might have written off-A.J. Derby and Kody Walker. While we've yet to see exactly what the latter will do this coming year, we certainly know who solid a contributor Derby turned out to be this past season. Sometimes the coaches DO know something we fans don't see at the time.

[theFlyingHog]

Don't be naive.  Of course you will.  that rule won't change things for 95% of kids. 

If a coach says "you'll never play a down here" and the kid doesn't bail then his life can be made miserable.   The rule will not change much at all.   If a coach wants to to get rid of a kid then he can and will.

Hey hootie, this is CBB's team now.

[Music City Hog]

Life made miserable?  What exactly should a coach do?  So lets say we have a player who is attending classes, working hard during practice, never late, and is not causing problems.  However, for one reason or another, he is not living up to the hype.  He is dead weight or whatever you like to call him.  What should the coach do.  Run him tell he pukes.... for what?  I hate to tell you, the Junction Boys are long gone.  Social media has made it much easier for players to vent and give an inside look to any perceived "injustice". 

Do you really think it would be smart for Coach Bielema to take a player and bully him just to free a roster spot.  Should Coach B pay teachers to fail the player?  Plant drugs in their locker?  What exactly are you suggesting?

I'm not suggesting anything.  I'm saying if a coach (saban perhaps) wants to get rid of a player then a 4 year schollie won't stop him.   And he won't have to "bully" a kid to do it. 

[Music City Hog]

Agreed, in this day and age of social media, the coach that tries something like that will quickly be the next Mike Leach. 

Really, the only viable tool a coach will have is playing time.  Most players not receiving any will move on of their own free will, but your going to have a few that decide to leach the free education, or just do enough academically so they can continue to party for 4-5 years.

This is correct.  If a coach says "you can stay but you'll never play a down" then the vast majority of kids will leave on their own.

[lefty08]

Judging strictly by posts (which I realize can be inaccurate) music city hog has to be one of the most morally bankrupt of our visitors

Taking away a chance for a kid to get an education because you "think" you have found a better 3rd stringer?

Come on man, the fact some coaches do this doesn't make it a standard we should strive for

[Music City Hog]

Judging strictly by posts (which I realize can be inaccurate) music city hog has to be one of the most morally bankrupt of our visitors

Taking away a chance for a kid to get an education because you "think" you have found a better 3rd stringer?

Come on man, the fact some coaches do this doesn't make it a standard we should strive for

Guilty ✋

I do think that it's a partnership.  The school provides an education and you contribute to the football team.  If someone isn't holding up their part of the bargain then...

It's business. An employee won't keep a non productive working just so they don't take away a guys chance at getting a pay check.  I guess I see things differently than you and there's nothing wrong with that.  To each his own!

[Arthur pigby sellers.]

I don't think its necessarily a bad thing If the coach explains to the player that in his current situation he would get little playing time.  Especially if the coach helps direct the player to a smaller school which needs his skill set.  Remember that almost every player at these big schools primary goals is playing in the NFL.  If that player has to transfer to UCA to show off his skills then most of them will do it.

[k.c.hawg]

CBB is a man that has backed up his talk with his actions. He has shown to be a man of his word. He is demanding that players will go to class, be student/athletes, grow into being men. When he walks in the home of a player and tells his parents what he believes in and what he will do for their son, they can believe him. You will not see him running off players that are doing everything the right way. You will see some guys contribute as Jr's and Sr's that maybe didn't contribute earlier.

For those that want a morally bankrupt coach I'm afraid you are out of luck here. If he makes a mistake in recruiting and brings in a bad kid that doesn't want to go to class, doesn't want to be a good citizen then a spot will open up. We have been used to 25 recruit classes being down to 10-12 players left on campus in year 4 with the previous two administrations and taking a full 25 was always necessary to maintain 85.

[Pork Twain]

I don't understand how BB says we have depth problems and the. Follows it up with we are only gonna sign 18-22 because we awarding some walk ins schollies. 

I'm all for walk ons earning schollies, but if we need depth then use all 25.  We never use all 25 schollies.  I don't get it at all. 

Depth is not just built in signing classes.  Teams like Arkansas must also build it by developing players that were either walk-ons or redshirted their first year.  Those redshirted players still count against the 85 and if a coach and his recruiters do their jobs right, they will have a very low turnover from year to year due to players not working out.  That means the first few years at a program, there will be depth issues as those players are developed. 

Not rocket surgery...

[Vantage 8 dude]

I'd like to also remind anyone who advocates "running off" (or however one wants to phrase it) a walk-on or some other player who isn't likely to be a "star" that NO team, not even the 'Bamas or tOSUs of the world, is going to be completely filled with kids who are going to start and play at the highest level. Just the way of the world. As far as CBB going a different route and perhaps relying more on bringing in walk-ons and development of recruits who might not have been 4 and 5 stars during their high school days then that's fine. The reason(s) include the fact that unfortunately the Hogs are likely rarely, if ever, going to pull in the number of highly ranked players that the Tide, Gators and others are each year. That means that he's going to have to go a different path. This usually entails trying to both spot kids that may be overlooked by many other major programs AND then taking the kids he does have an developing their talent and skills to the highest levels. Appears for the most part Bret and staff have been fairly successful at both. While I'll take all the highly ranked recruits we can, as we've seen there's more than one way to build a solid and feared team. Personally I have no qualms at all with the approach our HC is taking. Better days are just ahead.

[Pig in the Pokey]

  11 x 2 = 22 O some key positions you need 3 deep, so + 5 or 6    27 or 28 needed for offense

  Same thing for defense, so another 27 or 28. So you need at least 54 to 56 ready to play now.

Add your 17 or 18 freshmen that hopefully you can redshirt, unless they are just too good to redshirt. that brings you to 71 to 74 solid schollies.

   Oh, by the way you have 2 to 6 kickers and a couple of holders. That makes another 8 or 9 total on the special teams that are not going to do anything else, bringing the grand total to 80 to 83. That gives CBB 2 to 5 schollies to give to walkons that deserve a one year break on the cost of going to school, for doing a great job and really wanting to be a HOG. Something I have no problem with him doing.   WPS    :razorback: :razorback: :razorback: :razorback: :razorback: :razorback:   GHG

why in the world would we waste schollies on holders? Back up QB or most of the hands team could do that. Same with deep snappers. Like our 4*Center just can't snap it to the holder. Crazy wasteful. Maybe it's just me but i'd double down and get some holders and deep snappers cross trained out of my back-ups.  /endrant

[HoopS]

Sorry, thought of another example.

A.J. Derby

Post 2013 season: A.J. was called Derpy more times than Derby.  People claimed nepotism due to Coach B's friendship with A.J.'s dad.  A.J. was hated. People wanted him to be cut from the team, even though he was a walk on.

Pre 2014 season: Coach commits the ultimate sin he gives "Derpy" a scholarship.
Why would he do that? Nepotism I tell ya. Nepotism.  Derby won't amount to anything regardless of position. blah blah blah

2014 season: Derby was a monster at the tight end position.
Good thing we didn't cut him.

remember it well. It was another illustration of why you need to approach many posters as folks who are just posting for entertainment. We have a good amount of fans who always look for a target to go after. Whether it be a player or coach. Gotta get after somebody. Once that person shuts them up, they act like they never criticized him and move onto someone else. Or they disappear for a while, kinda like what we saw in basketball. 27 wins was hard to criticize without looking like a blowhard. Now that a couple players have declared for the NBA, some are back to criticizing our program again. That's the current target. It'll change too, like AJD.

[Music City Hog]

remember it well. It was another illustration of why you need to approach many posters as folks who are just posting for entertainment. We have a good amount of fans who always look for a target to go after. Whether it be a player or coach. Gotta get after somebody. Once that person shuts them up, they act like they never criticized him and move onto someone else. Or they disappear for a while, kinda like what we saw in basketball. 27 wins was hard to criticize without looking like a blowhard. Now that a couple players have declared for the NBA, some are back to criticizing our program again. That's the current target. It'll change too, like AJD.

Derby was a great tight end, but let's not start comparing sample sizes on each side.  It won't support your argument.

[HoopS]

Derby was a great tight end, but let's not start comparing sample sizes on each side.  It won't support your argument.

don't worry. I'm not going to sit here and go back and forth.

I've been on message boards a long time. I know that we always have a target some fans will rally up against. I've been watching it for a good long time. That's my point. Read for entertainment, figure out who just likes to woof and rant and who brings substance. Once you figure that out, you can see it for what it is.

[Music City Hog]

don't worry. I'm not going to sit here and go back and forth.

I've been on message boards a long time. I know that we always have a target some fans will rally up against. I've been watching it for a good long time. That's my point. Read for entertainment, figure out who just likes to woof and rant and who brings substance. Once you figure that out, you can see it for what it is.

Good advice.  Thanks.

[secneahog]

Well we need to join the elite and start culling dead weight.  The great teams don't keep kids that can't play or contribute.  This isn't little league.  Sign a full class like every other sec team please.

You're a joke..

[hawginbigd1]

Said it earlier in the year the numbers look like 20 is around our number for next recruiting class. I don't see a bunch leaving the program, and we don't just medically discharge players because we want another like some programs.

[Huds_HawgTide]

Small chance skipp and kirk leave early

[The_Hog_Father]

I really hope Reeve Koehler takes it up a step or three... I was really excited about his potential and wish the best for him (I know he was injured at one point.)

Does anyone have the latest intel?

Thanks.

Wooo Pig. :razorback:

[razorbackinthegrove]

Let's get back to the interesting part, any ideas on this mystery recruit??

[PaintballHog]

It's odd that the position where we have the most depth is what we have another signing on. I would think oline rb or lb would be more of a concern of depth. He must be a stud if BB thinks he can make the 2 deep with all the talent we already have.