Back-Up QB

[phadedhawg]

I hope we can get some playing time for the backups but just bc the score isn't close doesn't mean AA and the RBs don't need the extra snaps in a game situation.  Allen is a senior but he needs to get used to his OL and his backs. 

[Carl Lazlo]

So now you wish your coach was more like Kliff Kingsbury?  Ok....

Do you want me to keep going?  Clemson tigers back up attemped 33.

[gchamblee]

Really?  Just last season Patrick Mahomes back up Nic Shimonek attempted 58 passes.

Mahomes left a game early due to injury, and all Tech does is throw the ball. Nice try.

[hogsanity]

Really?  Just last season Patrick Mahomes back up Nic Shimonek attempted 58 passes.

He was also a JR, and only played in 4 games. HE did almost all of his passing in the SFA and Kansas games where he threw 49 of his 58 passes. He played late in their blowout losses to WVU and Iowa St. IT is not like they were getting him 1st team snaps early in games.

[Carl Lazlo]

He was also a JR, and only played in 4 games. HE did almost all of his passing in the SFA and Kansas games where he threw 49 of his 58 passes. He played late in their blowout losses to WVU and Iowa St. IT is not like they were getting him 1st team snaps early in games.

Did I say he got 1st team reps? Are you implying game reps with the 2nd team aren't meaningful?

[Carl Lazlo]

Do you want me to keep going?  Clemson tigers back up attemped 33.

[hogsanity]

Did I say he got 1st team reps? Are you implying game reps with the 2nd team aren't meaningful?

Those are not meaningful snaps, in the context of the game.  Go read the other threads on this subject. People want the backup to get series with the 1st team. They have elaborate. plans on how to put them in for the 3rd series of the 1st half, then have them start the 2nd half, or some variance of that.  But no, in regard to getting the backup ready, playing with the 2nd team against a team that is also playing their backups, after you beat their 1st team into submission, is not meaningful to getting the backup ready to face the 1st team D of teams like LSu/Aub/Bama. 

[Tejano Jawg]

Think about this—there are some teams that don't have their STARTER chosen at this point. I'm glad we don't have that problem.

[hogsanity]

Do you want me to keep going?  Clemson tigers back up attemped 33.

And he was a Sr that is not even on the team this year. The guy who is going to start for Clemson threw 9 passes last year as a soph and 9 in 2015 as a Fr.

[hogsanity]

Do you want me to keep going?  Clemson tigers back up attemped 33.

Yes I do. I want you to find a team where the backup was playing with the 1st team, REGULARLY. So far you produced a guy in a offense that throws the ball just about every down, and a Sr on Clemson's team that is not even playing this year.

[rzrbkman]

In 2013 the Hogs were hosting Auburn and making a game of it. Brandon Allen had to leave the game for a while with a leg injury. AJ Derby came in and turned the ball over on 2 consecutive snaps. In 2014 Brandon Allen could not stand up straight on a potential game tying drive against a weak Missouri team, but there was no backup QB ready to go in game 12 of that season and the Hogs could not punch it in. I like CBB but it seems like he has never had a backup QB ready to go when needed, at Arkansas.

[Carl Lazlo]

Those are not meaningful snaps, in the context of the game.  Go read the other threads on this subject. People want the backup to get series with the 1st team. They have elaborate. plans on how to put them in for the 3rd series of the 1st half, then have them start the 2nd half, or some variance of that.  But no, in regard to getting the backup ready, playing with the 2nd team against a team that is also playing their backups, after you beat their 1st team into submission, is not meaningful to getting the backup ready to face the 1st team D of teams like LSu/Aub/Bama.

That is simply not true.  To say game reps are only meaningful when its a tight contest against a good defense is ignoring plenty of areas.  First it's totally different when a qb is practicing in skeleton or repping in practice team with O.  They have no worries about being drilled from behind or their arm being ripped while attempting to throw.  Plays are scripted so the D can t go full bore.  Not to mention a stadium full of fans, family, girlfriends plus a national audience on t.v.. I want to see more than 4 attempts by the back up this season if there is a nice lead starting 4th quarter..  Not with the 1s with the 2s. 

[Carl Lazlo]

Yes I do. I want you to find a team where the backup was playing with the 1st team, REGULARLY. So far you produced a guy in a offense that throws the ball just about every down, and a Sr on Clemson's team that is not even playing this year.

Keep moving the goal posts.

[hogsanity]

In 2013 the Hogs were hosting Auburn and making a game of it. Brandon Allen had to leave the game for a while with a leg injury. AJ Derby came in and turned the ball over on 2 consecutive snaps. In 2014 Brandon Allen could not stand up straight on a potential game tying drive against a weak Missouri team, but there was no backup QB ready to go in game 12 of that season and the Hogs could not punch it in. I like CBB but it seems like he has never had a backup QB ready to go when needed, at Arkansas.

How would you suggest that be done? How do you get a guy ready to maybe have to lead a game winning drive in the last game of the season on the road? Playing with the 2nd and 3rd team against a out manned out classed opponent is not going to do it.

[hogsanity]

Keep moving the goal posts.

No the goal post has always been find a coach that is doing anything with his backup other than playing him in mop up duty, other than if the starter gets hurt.

[daprospecta]

In 2013 the Hogs were hosting Auburn and making a game of it. Brandon Allen had to leave the game for a while with a leg injury. AJ Derby came in and turned the ball over on 2 consecutive snaps. In 2014 Brandon Allen could not stand up straight on a potential game tying drive against a weak Missouri team, but there was no backup QB ready to go in game 12 of that season and the Hogs could not punch it in. I like CBB but it seems like he has never had a backup QB ready to go when needed, at Arkansas.

Thank you sir for pointing out how it has hurt us.  If we are up 35-7 at halftime against FAMU, there is no reason not to start our number 2 qb in the 3rd quarter.  The game is still out of hand but not completely over.  Allow your number 2 to throw because as we have seen every year in the last few years, the number 2 could be called on at any time.

[daprospecta]

How would you suggest that be done? How do you get a guy ready to maybe have to lead a game winning drive in the last game of the season on the road? Playing with the 2nd and 3rd team against a out manned out classed opponent is not going to do it.

Take it from someone who played, practice does not compare to a game environment/situation. NOT EVEN CLOSE!

[hogsanity]

well I guess Saban is a moron then because they only have 2 players on the roster that have thrown a pass for the Tide. Hurts and Stewart, and Stewart has 2 attempts and is also not even a Qb, he is a WR. Same for ole Dabo at Clemson, his starter this year threw 9 whole passes last year, not exactly what i wold call " getting him ready" now was it.

[Carl Lazlo]

well I guess Saban is a moron then because they only have 2 players on the roster that have thrown a pass for the Tide. Hurts and Stewart, and Stewart has 2 attempts and is also not even a Qb, he is a WR. Same for ole Dabo at Clemson, his starter this year threw 9 whole passes last year, not exactly what i wold call " getting him ready" now was it.

Saban was using a TRUE FRESHMAN last season lol.  Dude give up. Seriously.

[Carl Lazlo]

Is it ok to compare Arkansas to Michigan St?  One of their back ups Brian Lewerke class of 2015 had 57 attempts.

[hogsanity]

Is it ok to compare Arkansas to Michigan St?  One of their back ups Brian Lewerke class of 2015 had 57 attempts.

Don't know because Mich St had another Qb with 46 attempts. Lewerke started and played the entire game against Maryland, a game MSu lost. So it appears that their starter missed some time with unjury or for other reasons.

[Porked Tongue]

I think it's been decided.

I believe the two involved will know as early as tomorrow and the rest of us shortly thereafter.

[Carl Lazlo]

Joe Burrow? Ohio st buckeyes 28 attempts.

[Carl Lazlo]

The back up would benefit with around 30 pass attempts. Per the stats from the majority of D1 schools.

[hogsanity]

The back up would benefit with around 30 pass attempts. Per the stats from the majority of D1 schools.

No one here would have issue with that, but that is not what people are talking about whe they say they want to get the backup ready. 30 pass attempts over a 12 game season ( 2.5 per game ) is NOT going to get the backup ready if they have to come in against a mad fired up 1st team D for a SEC opponent.

[tampahog]

Regardless of what other teams do or what is typical in the NFL where there are very few blowouts, if we have a comfortable lead, we should be building depth at the most important position on the team for 3 reasons:  1) to have real world experience in our backup if something were to happen to AA this year, 2) to reduce the risk of injury to AA in a meaningless situation, and 3) to build experience in our potential starter for next year and get the first game jitters out of the way now rather than next year.  The only argument against this is if our starter is still learning or we have a totally new offense that we need to break in and I don't feel that's the case with us this year.

It really doesn't matter to me if backup gets his reps with the 1st team or 2nd team.  When I say meaningful reps, what I mean is actually let them run the offense in it's entirety and try to move the chains (which is more than just trying to run the clock out).  If Saban chose not to develop a backup behind Hurts, then IMO he is taking a calculated risk but fortunately for him, he has great pass protection and a very mobile QB which are luxuries we haven't had lately. 

[Carl Lazlo]

No one here would have issue with that, but that is not what people are talking about whe they say they want to get the backup ready. 30 pass attempts over a 12 game season ( 2.5 per game ) is NOT going to get the backup ready if they have to come in against a mad fired up 1st team D for a SEC opponent.

You do it to get their feet wet.  Nothing more nothing less. 

Also your calculation for per game IS meaningless since the backup isn't getting in every game.

[Ugly Uncle]

Lou Holtz used to try to get his back up QB in on the third series of the game...if I remember correctly.  Put him out there and let him run the offense.  Anyone else remember that?

[hogsanity]

Lou Holtz used to try to get his back up QB in on the third series of the game...if I remember correctly.  Put him out there and let him run the offense.  Anyone else remember that?

Yes. Some of us remember when they played with leather helmets and no face masks too, but that does not mean that is what is done now.

Regardless of what other teams do or what is typical in the NFL where there are very few blowouts, if we have a comfortable lead, we should be building depth at the most important position on the team for 3 reasons:  1) to have real world experience in our backup if something were to happen to AA this year, 2) to reduce the risk of injury to AA in a meaningless situation, and 3) to build experience in our potential starter for next year and get the first game jitters out of the way now rather than next year.  The only argument against this is if our starter is still learning or we have a totally new offense that we need to break in and I don't feel that's the case with us this year.

It really doesn't matter to me if backup gets his reps with the 1st team or 2nd team.  When I say meaningful reps, what I mean is actually let them run the offense in it's entirety and try to move the chains (which is more than just trying to run the clock out).  If Saban chose not to develop a backup behind Hurts, then IMO he is taking a calculated risk but fortunately for him, he has great pass protection and a very mobile QB which are luxuries we haven't had lately. 

The backups should play when the team is way ahead or behind, but that is still not going to get them ready, especially at QB, to face a 1st team from a sec school.

[hoggusamoungus]

Lou Holtz used to try to get his back up QB in on the third series of the game...if I remember correctly.  Put him out there and let him run the offense.  Anyone else remember that?

Yep.  In 1977, it was the Right Reverend himself behind Calcagni, the next year Kevin Scanlon.

[Polecat]

If you announce #2 too early, you're going to have someone transfer out.

Isn't there still a need for a couple guys to transfer out, in order to get under the 85 limit?

[HogHomer]

In 2013 the Hogs were hosting Auburn and making a game of it. Brandon Allen had to leave the game for a while with a leg injury. AJ Derby came in and turned the ball over on 2 consecutive snaps. In 2014 Brandon Allen could not stand up straight on a potential game tying drive against a weak Missouri team, but there was no backup QB ready to go in game 12 of that season and the Hogs could not punch it in. I like CBB but it seems like he has never had a backup QB ready to go when needed, at Arkansas.

So you pull up CBB's first year where he had a QB transfer and we were redshirting AA btw (we would have a new starter this year if he played in the Mizzou game) CBB has brought some very talented QBs to Arkansas and they will prove it when they are the starter just as AA did and I think he did pretty well I his first year with a struggling oline. Only major playing time he got before last year was the ole miss game where he came in, managed the game and we won. Just as a back up should do.

[hobhog]

I think it's been decided.

I believe the two involved will know as early as tomorrow and the rest of us shortly thereafter.

yep- thought I read this in ADG this weekend. I think someone will start taking more reps in practice this week.......

[Atlhogfan1]

In 2013 the Hogs were hosting Auburn and making a game of it. Brandon Allen had to leave the game for a while with a leg injury. AJ Derby came in and turned the ball over on 2 consecutive snaps. In 2014 Brandon Allen could not stand up straight on a potential game tying drive against a weak Missouri team, but there was no backup QB ready to go in game 12 of that season and the Hogs could not punch it in. I like CBB but it seems like he has never had a backup QB ready to go when needed, at Arkansas.

Tough to be critical of Bielema when it comes to qb depth those first few seasons.  Pretty ** to do so in fact in regards to the 13 season.  The qb depth chart was a great example of just how much of a rebuild this was going to be.  If you want to bring up the fact he couldn't keep Mitchell, then make your spin although we have rehashed this on here.  Or some of his Wisconsin qb decisions if you want to reach. 

I've been one to favor letting the backup play when possible and not just take a knee or hand off to end a game.  When a game is out of reach, let the backup play.  But I also get that some college coaches tend to have the NFL mindset that the starting qb is going to play nearly every down if possible.

[tampahog]

Yes. Some of us remember when they played with leather helmets and no face masks too, but that does not mean that is what is done now.

The backups should play when the team is way ahead or behind, but that is still not going to get them ready, especially at QB, to face a 1st team from a sec school.

I agree it doesn't get them fully ready but at least it gets them one step closer

[Deep Shoat]

This thread = SSDD

Might as well start a GSD thread.

[Deep Shoat]

Oh, and the decision is made.  Cole Kelley will be announced tomorrow.

[Tyro3]

Backup qb's  may not get to play MEANINGFUL SNAPS ( whatever that means) but they get another year in the system, learning the playbook, being coached by Enos, and maturing and that is meaningful.

[Dwillhog66]

In 2013 the Hogs were hosting Auburn and making a game of it. Brandon Allen had to leave the game for a while with a leg injury. AJ Derby came in and turned the ball over on 2 consecutive snaps. In 2014 Brandon Allen could not stand up straight on a potential game tying drive against a weak Missouri team, but there was no backup QB ready to go in game 12 of that season and the Hogs could not punch it in. I like CBB but it seems like he has never had a backup QB ready to go when needed, at Arkansas.

We didn't lose that game because of BA. As I remember it BA completed a couple passes on 3rd or 4th down to give us a 1st down and kept us alive. A fumble by AC ended that final drive.

[hawginbigd1]

So you pull up CBB's first year where he had a QB transfer and we were redshirting AA btw (we would have a new starter this year if he played in the Mizzou game) CBB has brought some very talented QBs to Arkansas and they will prove it when they are the starter just as AA did and I think he did pretty well I his first year with a struggling oline. Only major playing time he got before last year was the ole miss game where he came in, managed the game and we won. Just as a back up should do.

Fail, AA was not red shirting, he had just finished off the Ole miss game for us because BA got knocked out. AA should have started the 2nd half, BA couldn't hardly stand up much less win an SEC game.

[Mike Irwin]

The two QBs not named Austin Allen that impressed me the most in the two preseason scrimmages were Carson Proctor and Jack Lindsey. They were the only QBs to score against the No. 1 defense. Lindsey was particularly impressive because he directed a ball control drive against the ones while Proctor got his TD on one big play. At one point Lindsey side stepped a blitzing linebacker and found a receiver to the one yard line, then got the TD on a one yard pass. Both QBs were working with the No. 2 offense.

[Porked Tongue]

Oh, and the decision is made.  Cole Kelley will be announced tomorrow.

[rzrbkman]

So you pull up CBB's first year where he had a QB transfer and we were redshirting AA btw (we would have a new starter this year if he played in the Mizzou game) CBB has brought some very talented QBs to Arkansas and they will prove it when they are the starter just as AA did and I think he did pretty well I his first year with a struggling oline. Only major playing time he got before last year was the ole miss game where he came in, managed the game and we won. Just as a back up should do.

You need to check your Austin Allen math. It's not correct.

[Porkchop#1]

Mahomes left a game early due to injury, and all Tech does is throw the ball. Nice try.

Lol..exactly, the guy probably had 58 attempts on one drive.

[Ex-Trumpet]

The two QBs not named Austin Allen that impressed me the most in the two preseason scrimmages were Carson Proctor and Jack Lindsey. They were the only QBs to score against the No. 1 defense. Lindsey was particularly impressive because he directed a ball control drive against the ones while Proctor got his TD on one big play. At one point Lindsey side stepped a blitzing linebacker and found a receiver to the one yard line, then got the TD on a one yard pass. Both QBs were working with the No. 2 offense.

Thanks, Mike, for the update.  But, I never know how to feel when one side beats our other side!

[swinesation]

I can only conclude the guys arguing on this thread simply like to argue.

[bennyl08]

My mistake, that's right he was still playing in the 4th Q of a game the Hogs were up by about 30 in.

Not true.

It was the Vandy game, but that was a game we struggled put any distance between us in the first  half. We were actually losing to Vandy in the 2nd quarter of the game. We were up by 21 at the time that Childs got injured. The drive started with 4 minutes left in the 3rd quarter and you don't really sub in backups in the middle of a drive. Childs was injured on the first play of the 4th quarter.

Up by 21 points in an SEC game with James Franklin as the opposing coach with nearly 20 minutes of game ahead is in no form a comfortable lead.

[Atlhogfan1]

Not true.

It was the Vandy game, but that was a game we struggled put any distance between us in the first  half. We were actually losing to Vandy in the 2nd quarter of the game. We were up by 21 at the time that Childs got injured. The drive started with 4 minutes left in the 3rd quarter and you don't really sub in backups in the middle of a drive. Childs was injured on the first play of the 4th quarter.

Up by 21 points in an SEC game with James Franklin as the opposing coach with nearly 20 minutes of game ahead is in no form a comfortable lead.

Caldwell was coaching Vandy.  Their offense couldn't move the ball at all after their 2nd possession.

[hogsanity]

Not true.

It was the Vandy game, but that was a game we struggled put any distance between us in the first  half. We were actually losing to Vandy in the 2nd quarter of the game. We were up by 21 at the time that Childs got injured. The drive started with 4 minutes left in the 3rd quarter and you don't really sub in backups in the middle of a drive. Childs was injured on the first play of the 4th quarter.

Up by 21 points in an SEC game with James Franklin as the opposing coach with nearly 20 minutes of game ahead is in no form a comfortable lead.

That was a Vandy team that finished 2-10. They had fewer than 200 yards total offense that day against the Hogs. Lets not make them out to be anything they were not. 

[bennyl08]

Caldwell was coaching Vandy.  Their offense couldn't move the ball at all after their 2nd possession.

True. Franklin came in the next year.

They didn't score after the second possession but we were losing to them in the second quarter.

21 point lead with 20 minutes left in the game was not a comfortable enough situation to put in the backups.