Help me understand

[Atlhogfan1]

Let me see if I can get this right. CMA wins more games every year, gets the program back into NCAA tourney since forever, wins a game. Expert fans declare next season is going to be a disaster without having played a game and the program is in shambles. CBB goes .500 last year, loses early and often out the gate this season, ranked at beginning of season and drops out quickly, now just hoping to duplicate .500 record of last season, expert fans declare we are on schedule, building it the right way, just need more depth, Toledo is really good....One would have to ask himself, which of these coaches have produced enough to have earned the benefit of the doubt?

Neither just based on what they have done at Arkansas. 

[TomBigBeeHog]

+1 to BDH. The guy has information inside the Razorback program much of that type of information could be more known on Jump Ball. Most of not any of us have the information "inside" the program that he has. I'm interested to hearing more.

How much is "most of not any"? I'm interested in hearing more.

[RME]

Let me see if I can get this right. CMA wins more games every year, gets the program back into NCAA tourney since forever, wins a game. Expert fans declare next season is going to be a disaster without having played a game and the program is in shambles. CBB goes .500 last year, loses early and often out the gate this season, ranked at beginning of season and drops out quickly, now just hoping to duplicate .500 record of last season, expert fans declare we are on schedule, building it the right way, just need more depth, Toledo is really good....One would have to ask himself, which of these coaches have produced enough to have earned the benefit of the doubt?

Comparing football to basketball is apples and oranges. Roster size, strength of conference, turnover, coaches and system changes, and a million other variables that come into play.  The most you will get out comparing Anderson and Bielema is straight up record and post-season results. Everything else is irrelevant.

[rude1]

Neither just based on what they have done at Arkansas. 

Oh but sure seems one is, and it's not the one who actually has produced anything.........

[TheRazorbackGuy]

Oh but sure seems one is, and it's not the one who actually has produced anything.........

Another New Beginning eh?
How bout let's play real games which is soon..

[TomBigBeeHog]

Another New Beginning eh?
How bout let's play real games which is soon..

Eager to see the bball team lose to make the football team look better? Sounds about right for you.

[TheRazorbackGuy]

Eager to see the bball team lose to make the football team look better? Sounds about right for you.

Um... Go look at my post history. I don't even talk in MMQB much anymore if hardly any in 2015 outside saying Toledo is good of which I'm wrong because Toledo lost to a small school the other night. But besides the point. Lets stick to hoops. I have no idea where this football argument arrives.

[TomBigBeeHog]

Um... Go look at my post history. I don't even talk in MMQB much anymore if hardly any in 2015 outside saying Toledo is good of which I'm wrong because Toledo lost to a small school the other night. But besides the point. Lets stick to hoops. I have no idea where this football argument arrives.

Agreed. I don't mind because the football vs basketball arguments aren't helpful. Especially the one about having "more confidence in football or basketball going forward". That was a totally useless thread that I requested several times to be moved to vents and rumors to no avail. Especially frustrating was that this argument was going on in the basketball recruiting forum. Stupid.

[lefty08]

I see no reason not to support both coaches. This pick a side debating is disturbing

[hawgfan4life]

Let me step away from being an admin for a minute and make an observation using my own beliefs about the upcoming season.

I do not believe we will be a tournament team - although I have zero evidence to base that on. No games. I said last week that I thought we'd be a little better than .500.

Now, then. Here comes the important part.

Let's suppose that every time we get beat, I log on to Jump Ball just to remind people of how bad I thought we'd be. Should we happen to win, I log on to mitigate that win with whatever ammunition I can find. Just for good measure, every time I get the opportunity I'm going to talk about how badly recruiting went.

Do you know what I deserve for that?

To be banned.

Okay, now I'm an admin again.

I predict a blister on your banning finger, but I hope I am wrong.  If correct, I won't come here bragging and if wrong, I won't come here mitigating why either.  Joking aside, I support your warning 100%

[WilsonHog]

I see no reason not to support both coaches. This pick a side debating is disturbing

But that misses the point, don't you see? Without the "taking of sides," there can be no reason to argue. Without a reason to argue, most of these people can't possibly see why a message board should even exist.

There is one other segment, equally misguided...those who think that what they type here actually means something. It's so far afield that it's actually...quaint. Bless their hearts.

[hammer66]

But that misses the point, don't you see? Without the "taking of sides," there can be no reason if argue. Without a reason to argue, most of these people can't possible see why a message board should even exist.

There is one other segment, equally misguided...those who think that what they type here actually means something. It's so far afield that it's actually...quaint. Bless their hearts.

Best post I've ever read on here.

[rude1]

Another New Beginning eh?
How bout let's play real games which is soon..

Why wait on games to be played? The program is in shambles and there is no reason to wait to see the product on the floor before we flame away, recruiting stinks, the roster stinks, the season stinks even though we haven't played a game of it......

[jkstock04]

Football is different become there is much more media hype and coverage in the offseason. We over-hype our football team every year because of it. This is probably the 4th straight year we've been the "darkhorse for the SEC west."

There's hardly any coverage for non-UK SEC basketball until late November. We're left with a pretty honest measuring stick - rosters.

Exactly. The unfounded expectations for football were 90%+ media generated hype. Most people will take what the media says and fall over themselves claiming it the gospel...especially if it is positive stuff.

Basketball is a completely different animal...you don't hear the preseason hype like that. At least with Arkansas you don't.

[jkstock04]

But that misses the point, don't you see? Without the "taking of sides," there can be no reason to argue. Without a reason to argue, most of these people can't possibly see why a message board should even exist.

There is one other segment, equally misguided...those who think that what they type here actually means something. It's so far afield that it's actually...quaint. Bless their hearts.

I would like to know one person on here who thinks what they post "means anything."

To the "real" world message boards and the like are nothing but crazies and goons. To me there is some (sparingly) good info to be had on here...but mostly it is just meaningless banter.

[hogsanity]

I would like to know one person on here who thinks what they post "means anything."

To the "real" world message boards and the like are nothing but crazies and goons. To me there is some (sparingly) good info to be had on here...but mostly it is just meaningless banter.

I know what I post means nothing. I do not think what we do here gets anyone hired or fired. I do not think it makes coaches act a certain way. It COULD have an impact on a recruit, but I doubt they peruse message boards much if at all. That is also why I can't figure out why anyone gets upset at what gets posted, as long as it is not vulgar or containing personal information.

It is like all the conspiracy theories about officials and the sec deciding who they want to win or lose games. The same people post that stuff just about every week, so what. I find it funny most of the time. I sure do not want them banned, they are entertaining.

[azhog10]

Let's suppose that every time we get beat, I log on to Jump Ball just to remind people of how bad I thought we'd be. Should we happen to win, I log on to mitigate that win with whatever ammunition I can find. Just for good measure, every time I get the opportunity I'm going to talk about how badly recruiting went.

Wait, you just described hogsanity......

[Atlhogfan1]

I agree on the harping about what happened since last season ended leaving us where we are for this season.  It is what it is.  There is as much to suggest this will be an anomaly of a season as it is an indication of the program is in trouble.  The current team may have a down season - may although I'm not as pessimistic as some yet.  Doesn't mean the program won't be heading back up again soon.  Let it go some.  Would be nice to have a basketball forum where so many aren't so defensive and sensitive and threads turned into arguments for no reason.  Lots of childish behavior here on both extreme sides - those who continue to remind of why we are where we are with their continued tantrum and those who defend with childish arguments and behavior. 

Wins and losses should be able to be discussed in terms of context and meaning if posters have an opinion on them.  Some will be bigger than others.  Some wins can be overstated. 

The jealousy and protectiveness among fans over certain Hog programs is childish and stupid.  It is prevalent in one forum I refuse to mention.  Some on JB have it too when it comes to wanting to keep basketball discussion just to themselves. 

[WilsonHog]

I agree on the harping about what happened since last season ended leaving us where we are for this season.  It is what it is.  There is as much to suggest this will be an anomaly of a season as it is an indication of the program is in trouble.  The current team may have a down season - may although I'm not as pessimistic as some yet.  Doesn't mean the program won't be heading back up again soon.  Let it go some.  Would be nice to have a basketball forum where so many aren't so defensive and sensitive and threads turned into arguments for no reason.  Lots of childish behavior here on both extreme sides - those who continue to remind of why we are where we are with their continued tantrum and those who defend with childish arguments and behavior. 

Wins and losses should be able to be discussed in terms of context and meaning if posters have an opinion on them.  Some will be bigger than others.  Some wins can be overstated. 

The jealousy and protectiveness among fans over certain Hog programs is childish and stupid.  It is prevalent in one forum I refuse to mention.  Some on JB have it too when it comes to wanting to keep basketball discussion just to themselves.

And yet, the regular posters in that forum will tell you that it is the best one we have.

[Atlhogfan1]

And yet, the regular posters in that forum will tell you that it is the best one we have.

No darn.  Obviously they would. It would be like giving this forum to a small few and then protecting them.  But I refuse to discuss it in any detail.  Can't with you. 

[hogsanity]

And yet, the regular posters in that forum will tell you that it is the best one we have.

That forum also is about the sport that has: A. been the most successful sport, by far, the last decade on the hill, and B. is closely followed by the fewest fans of all the major sports. 

[Biggus Piggus]

What does roster sizes have to do with bashing one coach in every single thread and not the other?  We can debate all day long who inherited a worse situation CMA or CBB.  We can debate all day long which is easier to turn around basketball or football, but that's completely irrelevant to what's going on here.

Point is, it's become acceptable to bash the basketball coach, yet it's unacceptable to say anything negative about the football coach. Every single thread on jump ball contains some sort of CMA bashing, yet you go to MMQB the mods lock threads that contain bashing and ban people.  We have guys like yourself that pretty much bash CMA in every thread, with stuff that is months old now.  Yet, over here we have a mod in Biggus who openly bashes the basketball coach, yet if you read his posts in MMQB he's frequently in defense of CBB and gets all over people if they try to bash him.  You can try to justify that in your head with roster sizes and it's football all you want, but it's a double standard, and it's not right.

You know, the reason why almost every thread you touch bursts into flames is because your entire style of argumentation is based on lying and distorting the words of your opponents. You string threads into miles of senseless drivel, because some people actually call you out on your dishonesty.

[Biggus Piggus]

Yet, over here we have a mod in Biggus who openly bashes the basketball coach, yet if you read his posts in MMQB he's frequently in defense of CBB and gets all over people if they try to bash him. 

Gawd man, where you been since Toledo?

[-Blu]

You know, the reason why almost every thread you touch bursts into flames is because your entire style of argumentation is based on lying and distorting the words of your opponents. You string threads into miles of senseless drivel, because some people actually call you out on your dishonesty.

Biggus, you get in way more arguments and get called out more than me and your a mod, that should tell you something.  Everyone knows your extremely biased towards the football team over basketball team.  I would go back and forth with you but it's pointless, you'll call me an idiot, throw out some big words, then throw some statistics from 1999 that have nothing to do with the coversation, then go back over to MMQB and do the same thing.

I just wanted to let you know I see right through you tough guy. P.S. I like that avatar it fits you perfectly.

[-Blu]

DEFINITELY.

I am sick of this complete bull tactic some people on here use to deflect the absolutely horrifying condition of the men's basketball program under Mike Anderson by throwing in some completely irrelevant non-points about football.

Nice post here Biggus, nothing you said here is lying, distorting, or trying to start an argument.  Bashing the basketball coach on the basketball forum is definitely a good way to turn a thread into the right direction.  Nice moderating.

[WilsonHog]

That forum also is about the sport that has: A. been the most successful sport, by far, the last decade on the hill, and B. is closely followed by the fewest fans of all the major sports.

And this forum would be much better off if it followed suit.

[azhog10]

DEFINITELY.

I am sick of this complete bull tactic some people on here use to deflect the absolutely horrifying condition of the men's basketball program under Mike Anderson by throwing in some completely irrelevant non-points about football.

Then why be in Jump Ball at all? Seems like a pretty uniformed and ridiculous statement to make. But that's been the norm with you. I used to like your posts that provided some analytical points of view. Now it's become more garbage and just brutal to read. Not sure the Mod title suits you over here......

[azhog10]

And this forum would be much better off if it followed suit.

Would agree to a point. Extra Innings is more of a forum to go and find information about past players and get a little bit of info outside of the season. During the season it's best for game threads. Probably the best and easiest to read game threads in all of hogville.

[hogsanity]

And this forum would be much better off if it followed suit.

So JB would be better if FEWER people followed basketball?  What it sounds like is that a few people do not want a discussion forum, they want a table at their local diner to sit around with a couple buddies who all agree on everything.

Baseball caters much more to a laid back atmosphere because the season is 50-60 games long,and many of the midweek games are a chance for DVH to start developing the pitchers he is going to need a year or 2 down the line. 

Would agree to a point. Extra Innings is more of a forum to go and find information about past players and get a little bit of info outside of the season. During the season it's best for game threads. Probably the best and easiest to read game threads in all of hogville.

Like I said, 10 years of winning at a pretty high clip, and very few people actually care enough about the sport to seek out a message board about it. Those who do are pretty much like minded.

[WilsonHog]

So JB would be better if FEWER people followed basketball?  What it sounds like is that a few people do not want a discussion forum, they want a table at their local diner to sit around with a couple buddies who all agree on everything.

Baseball caters much more to a laid back atmosphere because the season is 50-60 games long,and many of the midweek games are a chance for DVH to start developing the pitchers he is going to need a year or 2 down the line. 

Like I said, 10 years of winning at a pretty high clip, and very few people actually care enough about the sport to seek out a message board about it. Those who do are pretty much like minded.

The level of discussion is different. There are regular posters in there who I disagree with. There are regular EI posters who I have banned multiple times based on their posts in Jump Ball or MMQB...but not in EI. Why? Their level of discourse is different in EI.

I can tell you flat out...if you posted in EI the way you do here, you'd be given an immediate extended vacation.

[azhog10]

The level of discussion is different. There are regular posters in there who I disagree with. There are regular EI posters who I have banned multiple times based on their posts in Jump Ball or MMQB...but not in EI. Why? Their level of discourse is different in EI.

I can tell you flat out...if you posted in EI the way you do here, you'd be given an immediate extended vacation.

I can attest to that.....learned early and often.

[-Blu]

Then why be in Jump Ball at all? Seems like a pretty uniformed and ridiculous statement to make. But that's been the norm with you. I used to like your posts that provided some analytical points of view. Now it's become more garbage and just brutal to read. Not sure the Mod title suits you over here......

Same here, he use to provide a bunch of posts with interesting statistics, now all he does is occasionally visit jump ball to bash CMA, and call anyone who defends him an idiot, and acts like because he's a mod we're all just suppose to be cool with it.

If he was truly concerned about cleaning these threads up he would have said no bashing of either coach and handed out some warnings.  Instead he thought saying CMA has the basketball program in a "horrifying condition" would some how make things better.  That makes no sense at all.

[WilsonHog]

Same here, he use to provide a bunch of posts with interesting statistics, now all he does is occasionally visit jump ball to bash CMA, and call anyone who defends him an idiot, and acts like because he's a mod we're all just suppose to be cool with it.

If he was truly concerned about cleaning these threads up he would have said no bashing of either coach and handed out some warnings.  Instead he thought saying CMA has the basketball program in a "horrifying condition" would some how make things better?  That makes no sense at all.

The problem as I see it is that too many people want to be or feel they have to be on one side of the line or the other. I like Mike Anderson. I support him as our basketball coach. However, that does not mean I can't objectively look at recruiting over the last six months and be extremely disappointed in it. Am I going to bring it up in every thread? No.

[Atlhogfan1]

The problem as I see it is that too many people want to be or feel they have to be on one side of the line or the other. I like Mike Anderson. I support him as our basketball coach. However, that does not mean I can't objectively look at recruiting over the last six months and be extremely disappointed in it. Am I going to bring it up in every thread? No.

Holy hell.  Now we are getting somewhere.  Yes posters believe they have to push people to sides and that their role here is to call people out.  Some have even stated it.  All some of us would ask would be this to be managed in all forums and done so in a similar manner.  It is very skewed right now. 

[-Blu]

The problem as I see it is that too many people want to be or feel they have to be on one side of the line or the other. I like Mike Anderson. I support him as our basketball coach. However, that does not mean I can't objectively look at recruiting over the last six months and be extremely disappointed in it. Am I going to bring it up in every thread? No.

Tom, I agree there's nothing wrong with being disappointed in the Spring recruiting, and voicing those concerns.  When we missed on some key targets I know I voiced my concerns.  And I have nothing wrong with people that don't agree with me on different topics, some of the guys that are on opposite end of the discussions as myself are some of the posters that I talk to the most and even talk with in PM about different stuff because at the end of the day we all want to see a quality basketball team.

The problem I have is with these guys that always focus on the negative, in every single thread.  There's not as many as you think, but they are a very loud minority.  You can view the post history of some of these guys and may never find a positive post about the basketball team from them, yet they post in every thread and derail every thread. 

I know as a mod, it's a thin line between being a fan and trying to keep the peace.  And I actually think your doing a good job, your unbiased and try to let everyone speak their mind, and you also give your opinions as well.  Biggus on the other hand....  I mean how many different names can this guy come up with to call people.  And he's done that to me for just defending the basketball coach. 

[lefty08]

Count me as one that has a problem with moderates in flaming threads as well. I'm no saint myself, and early on 8n my time here I was banned twice for publicly calling out Biggus myself. It wasn't the right thing to do and I served my time, but I still cringe when I see many of his posts. It has gotten a bit out of hand in here at times.

I really enjoy posting in EI. It's a relaxed forum where plenty of concerns are brought up, but it never gets to a personal level, and if it does its dealt with quickly. I've often wondered why that is. It's truly odd that 1 forum can be so different from then others, and it's by far the best place to be on this site.

It's one thing to disagree , it's a whole another thing to disrespect another poster

[Atlhogfan1]

Count me as one that has a problem with moderates in flaming threads as well. I'm no saint myself, and early on 8n my time here I was banned twice for publicly calling out Biggus myself. It wasn't the right thing to do and I served my time, but I still cringe when I see many of his posts. It has gotten a bit out of hand in here at times.

I really enjoy posting in EI. It's a relaxed forum where plenty of concerns are brought up, but it never gets to a personal level, and if it does its dealt with quickly. I've often wondered why that is. It's truly odd that 1 forum can be so different from then others, and it's by far the best place to be on this site.

It's one thing to disagree , it's a whole another thing to disrespect another poster

I disagree with most of this.  But I do agree that there is a big problem with disrespecting each other.

[hoglady]

Count me as one that has a problem with moderates in flaming threads as well. I'm no saint myself, and early on 8n my time here I was banned twice for publicly calling out Biggus myself. It wasn't the right thing to do and I served my time, but I still cringe when I see many of his posts. It has gotten a bit out of hand in here at times.

I really enjoy posting in EI. It's a relaxed forum where plenty of concerns are brought up, but it never gets to a personal level, and if it does its dealt with quickly. I've often wondered why that is. It's truly odd that 1 forum can be so different from then others, and it's by far the best place to be on this site.

It's one thing to disagree , it's a whole another thing to disrespect another poster

Well - one thing in EI most all posters treat Van Horn with respect. Of course, there are times when game and player decisions are questioned, but it's usually always done with respect. Folks don't fly off the handle calling for his head, they don't call him by names that aren't his and most don't have a preset agenda for or against the coach.
It's easy to have a settled forum with a coach like Van Horn - he's been successful since taking the job while playing in the toughest baseball conference in college.

[azhog10]

The problem as I see it is that too many people want to be or feel they have to be on one side of the line or the other. I like Mike Anderson. I support him as our basketball coach. However, that does not mean I can't objectively look at recruiting over the last six months and be extremely disappointed in it. Am I going to bring it up in every thread? No.

This is probably the best post I've read on this subject in a while. No one can say with a straight face the recruiting for the '15 class the last 6 months was good. But I can say recruiting in the last 2 months for the '16 class has been very very good. Hopefully it gets even better!

[TheRazorbackGuy]

This is probably the best post I've read on this subject in a while. No one can say with a straight face the recruiting for the '15 class the last 6 months was good. But I can say recruiting in the last 2 months for the '16 class has been very very good. Hopefully it gets even better!

Conflict and Debate matters.... Allow it...

[hawginbigd1]

Well - one thing in EI most all posters treat Van Horn with respect. Of course, there are times when game and player decisions are questioned, but it's usually always done with respect. Folks don't fly off the handle calling for his head, they don't call him by names that aren't his and most don't have a preset agenda for or against the coach.
It's easy to have a settled forum with a coach like Van Horn - he's been successful since taking the job while playing in the toughest baseball conference in college.

I go to EI for the game threads, and to peruse information laid down by UCA. The rest of it seems like a bunch of people full of themselves, no really diverse or interesting discussions. I spend as much time in the Golf and or motor sports forums as I do there aside from the game threads.

[PonderinHog]

The 2015 recruiting class is what it is.  The 2016 recruiting class looks promising, so far.



Now, it's time to play hawgball.   I am ready for tip off.  :razorback:

[azhog10]

Conflict and Debate matters.... Allow it...

That wasn't his point. No one is saying you shouldn't be able to come on here and debate. Heck you are free to do pretty much as you please over here in Jump Ball. But for some of us it would be a more pleasant experience if every topic wasn't entrenched with the same people spewing the same constant negativity. But heck no one's stopping you, so spew away.....

[HoopS]

It is just that so many threads get ruined by some of the same folks over and over and over and over and I haven't seen an opinion amongst them be swayed yet. And so people who have an open mind come here to enjoy talking about our team only to drown in the same repeated vomit. Heck, even if some of you have valid points most folks won't ever read it anymore. I'm astounded by the number of posts and amount of time spent saying the same things almost verbatim for months. It your wish was to make this place suck, then congrats.

[azhog10]

It is just that so many threads get ruined by some of the same folks over and over and over and over and I haven't seen an opinion amongst them be swayed yet. And so people who have an open mind come here to enjoy talking about our team only to drown in the same repeated vomit. Heck, even if some of you have valid points most folks won't ever read it anymore. I'm astounded by the number of posts and amount of time spent saying the same things almost verbatim for months. It your wish was to make this place suck, then congrats.

Some people believe if they say something often and long enough it becomes fact.

[Biggus Piggus]

Biggus, you get in way more arguments and get called out more than me and your a mod, that should tell you something.  Everyone knows your extremely biased towards the football team over basketball team.  I would go back and forth with you but it's pointless, you'll call me an idiot, throw out some big words, then throw some statistics from 1999 that have nothing to do with the coversation, then go back over to MMQB and do the same thing.

I just wanted to let you know I see right through you tough guy. P.S. I like that avatar it fits you perfectly.

This is perfectly hilarious. My avatar is a direct swipe at the football coach, and you regurgitate the same drivel about disregarding my basketball opinion because I'm "biased" toward the white football coach. SMH. Arguing with low-intellect people drains my energy.

[bigdaddyhawg]

This is perfectly hilarious. My avatar is a direct swipe at the football coach, and you regurgitate the same drivel about disregarding my basketball opinion because I'm "biased" toward the white football coach. SMH. Arguing with low-intellect people drains my energy.

Attacks on detractors to deflect criticism don't, by definition, have to be logical or make sense.

[-Blu]

This is perfectly hilarious. My avatar is a direct swipe at the football coach, and you regurgitate the same drivel about disregarding my basketball opinion because I'm "biased" toward the white football coach. SMH. Arguing with low-intellect people drains my energy.

Another great post by Biggus, you always set such a great example of how to act as a mod. 

And FYI nobody brought race into anything. I said you were biased towards the football program over the basketball program.  Anybody can read your post history and see that.  You've had 3 guys call you out on it in this thread alone.  But, maybe they are just low-intellect people as well.  Because anyone that calls out the all knowing Biggus obviously has a low IQ.

And you always like throwing statistics around, I'd like to start a poll and see the stats on how many people think you are a good mod.  All you ever do is come over here and bash the basketball program then run back over to MMQB.  Your such a joke.

[PonderinHog]

[TheRazorbackGuy]

Another great post by Biggus, you always set such a great example of how to act as a mod. 

And FYI nobody brought race into anything. I said you were biased towards the football program over the basketball program.  Anybody can read your post history and see that.  You've had 3 guys call you out on it in this thread alone.  But, maybe they are just low-intellect people as well.  Because anyone that calls out the all knowing Biggus obviously has a low IQ.

And you always like throwing statistics around, I'd like to start a poll and see the stats on how many people think you are a good mod.  All you ever do is come over here and bash the basketball program then run back over to MMQB.  Your such a joke.

Nothing more than funny. Your taking the extreme measure from debate and conflict to straight out defensive mode. I'm beginning to think your posts are a joke Blu.