Arkansas Mens' Track and Field move to #1

[JHicks3636]

Lanny has always been kind enough to approve track and field posts in this forum as there is no other forum for it. Obviously Track and Field has been the historical bright spot for Arkansas sports. The men's team jump to #1 this week in the ratings. This was a jump of 7 slots from last week. Also the 1st poll this year based solely on 2016 performances. If you think the SEC dominates the football polls some years, just check out the SEC teams in track and field.
http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/trackfield-indoor-men/d1

[oldhawg]

Great to see that.

It's hard to believe that John McDonnell has been retired eight years.   He was truly an icon not only nationally, but internationally in the "running" world.  For those who did not follow track and field , and for the young, his accomplishment bear repeating:

"McDonnell's 40 national championships (which include 19 in indoor track, 10 in outdoor track and 11 in cross country) are more than any coach in any sport in the history of college athletics.[1]
McDonnell also won five national triple crowns. (in 1984-85, 1991–92, 1992–93, 1994–95 and 1998–99)
In addition, McDonnell team and individual achievements include:[2]
•   20 conference triple crowns since 1982, including eight straight between 1987 and 1995
•   25 consecutive conference titles in cross country with indoor track and outdoor track combined from 1987 to 1995
•   84 conference championships overall including 38 in the SWC and 46 in the SEC
•   12 consecutive NCAA indoor track championships (1984–1995)
•   coached 185 track All-Americans, earning 652 separate All-America honors
•   34 consecutive league cross country championships, including 17 straight in the SEC (1974–2007)[2]
•   54 individual national champions
•   23 Olympians coached spanning three decades and six different Olympic Games including gold, silver and bronze medalists
•   his 1994 indoor track squad won the national championship by the widest margins in the history of the sport as well as scored the most points (94) in the history of the NCAA event
•   his 1994 squad scored a meet record 223 points at the SEC Outdoor Championships
•   has been named national, regional or conference coach of the year a total of 140 times
•   has coached 23 Olympians, including gold, silver and bronze medalists, 105 NCAA individual event champions and 331 individual event conference champions"

[razorhog52]

Great to see. It seems track polls are some of the most accurate. Usually only the top few school have a shot at the title. We will see who qualifies for nationals coming up.

[JIHawg]

Great posts Jhicks and oldhog.

[longpig]

John McDonnel took over with all those kids from Ireland in the 80s. 

[HognitiveDissonance]

Great to see that.

It's hard to believe that John McDonnell has been retired eight years.   He was truly an icon not only nationally, but internationally in the "running" world.  For those who did not follow track and field , and for the young, his accomplishment bear repeating:

"McDonnell's 40 national championships (which include 19 in indoor track, 10 in outdoor track and 11 in cross country) are more than any coach in any sport in the history of college athletics.[1]
McDonnell also won five national triple crowns. (in 1984-85, 1991–92, 1992–93, 1994–95 and 1998–99)
In addition, McDonnell team and individual achievements include:[2]
•   20 conference triple crowns since 1982, including eight straight between 1987 and 1995
•   25 consecutive conference titles in cross country with indoor track and outdoor track combined from 1987 to 1995
•   84 conference championships overall including 38 in the SWC and 46 in the SEC
•   12 consecutive NCAA indoor track championships (1984–1995)
•   coached 185 track All-Americans, earning 652 separate All-America honors
•   34 consecutive league cross country championships, including 17 straight in the SEC (1974–2007)[2]
•   54 individual national champions
•   23 Olympians coached spanning three decades and six different Olympic Games including gold, silver and bronze medalists
•   his 1994 indoor track squad won the national championship by the widest margins in the history of the sport as well as scored the most points (94) in the history of the NCAA event
•   his 1994 squad scored a meet record 223 points at the SEC Outdoor Championships
•   has been named national, regional or conference coach of the year a total of 140 times
•   has coached 23 Olympians, including gold, silver and bronze medalists, 105 NCAA individual event champions and 331 individual event conference champions"

1994 was a great year for Arkansas athletics. Track, basketball #1, and golf finished 4th in the NCAA that year I believe.

[ICEman]

John McDonnel took over with all those kids from Ireland in the 80s. 

The Emerald Isle connection began in the 70's with the late Niall O'Shaughnessy.

[rjm1940]

Thanks for the interesting comments.  It is nice to recognize the good work the track team is doing.

[yraciv]

Why are we talking about John McDonnel? Shouldn't this post be about the number 1 team Chris Bucknam currently has. Yes that's McDonnel's successor who has done a pretty good job keeping us competitive. Yes McDonnel was great, and everyone knows his level of dominance may never be matched in collegiate sports again but that was 8 years ago. Did you know we have 1 of the best long jumpers in the world right now?

[bigdaddyhawg]

Lanny has always been kind enough to approve track and field posts in this forum as there is no other forum for it. Obviously Track and Field has been the historical bright spot for Arkansas sports. The men's team jump to #1 this week in the ratings. This was a jump of 7 slots from last week. Also the 1st poll this year based solely on 2016 performances. If you think the SEC dominates the football polls some years, just check out the SEC teams in track and field.
http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/trackfield-indoor-men/d1

This is nice and all, and I've spent a LOT of time on here supporting Chris Bucknam against the attacks of Dick Booth lovers, but at some point these rankings have to translate into championships, otherwise it's nothing more than topics for discussions.

[HognitiveDissonance]

It's hard to know just how good Bucknam is because we all know no one was going to replicate Mac's success. It was an inevitable dropoff.

Kinda like Tenn Lady Vol basketball after Pat Summitt. They're still good, but not the same. No avoiding it.

So I was resigned to the fact Ark track would never be what it once was. It's hard to define what the new standard of expectation should be, though.

[Exit Pursued by a Boar]

Great to see. It seems track polls are some of the most accurate. Usually only the top few school have a shot at the title. We will see who qualifies for nationals coming up.

Are polls for track really polls, or they projections based on how many points a team would  get calculating form performances already posted?

I'm asking. I don't know.

EFBAB

[JHicks3636]

Are polls for track really polls, or they projections based on how many points a team would  get calculating form performances already posted?

I'm asking. I don't know.

Good question. It is based on projected performance. The poll will really be interesting after the SEC meet. At least that will be in Fayetteville.

EFBAB

[tbhogfan]

John McDonnel took over with all those kids from Ireland in the 80s. 

John had already been the cross-country coach for several years when he took over the program in 1977.

[tbhogfan]

Are polls for track really polls, or they projections based on how many points a team would  get calculating form performances already posted?

I'm asking. I don't know.

EFBAB

You are indeed a wise person.  That's pretty well exactly how the Track polls are done.   The position the person has in the rankings is given the points that place would get if they got that place at the National Championships.  Like all polls, there's plenty of room for error, especially should a top athlete get injured and not perform at their best (or at all) in the championships.

[PORKULATOR]

I always liked it when Mac would get his hands on some of our football players. They'd show up for spring lean and fast.

[jesterzzn]

The thing is that the run from 84-95 wasn't just dominant in its consistency, there were years in there where the runner up at the national meet wasn't within 50 points of the Arkansas team.  There were years where you could have doubled the points of every other team at the meet, and Arkansas would still have won by double digits.  It was unprecedented dominance in NCAA sports history.  It won't likely ever be duplicated in any team sport.

That said...I want them to win it again.  What's it been, like three years since our last NC?  TOO LONG!! 

[ICEman]

Are polls for track really polls, or they projections based on how many points a team would  get calculating form performances already posted?

I'm asking. I don't know.

EFBAB

Points are accrued by a descending rankings list per event. The rankings are only a tacit predictor of a NCAA finish.  Though team depth for Conference Championships is all important, it is the team with a handful of star athletes that normally win the National Championships. For example, Oregon's distance ace Edward Cheserek guarantees his team 20+ points at national meets.  When 50 to 60 points is normally needed to take nationals, one star athlete can usually get you halfway there.  Florida usually has an athlete of similar scoring capabilities. The Razorbacks during Coach McDonnell's tenure routinely had 2 or 3 athletes that could score 20 points in national meets.

[jm]

It is great to have something positive to talk about.

[Waldron_Hog]

Bucknam has one natty so far, doesn't he?

[ICEman]

With Washington's top time (no lane violation this week 😉) in the NCAA in the 400m, the Razorback Thinclads strengthen their hold on the top spot.

[Biggus Piggus]

I guess we went out and got us some mens.

[atekido]

Another reason Arkansas dominated for so long was because of individuals not native to Arkansas or the Country lol.

[Hogs33]

Another reason Arkansas dominated for so long was because of individuals not native to Arkansas or the Country lol.

If you can chase down antelope, surely you can win a track meet.

[Exit Pursued by a Boar]

Points are accrued by a descending rankings list per event. The rankings are only a tacit predictor of a NCAA finish.  Though team depth for Conference Championships is all important, it is the team with a handful of star athletes that normally win the National Championships. For example, Oregon's distance ace Edward Cheserek guarantees his team 20+ points at national meets.  When 50 to 60 points is normally needed to take nationals, one star athlete can usually get you halfway there.  Florida usually has an athlete of similar scoring capabilities. The Razorbacks during Coach McDonnell's tenure routinely had 2 or 3 athletes that could score 20 points in national meets.

I believe that's one reason McDonnell concentrated on getting quality long and triple jumpers and then on distance runners.  The thought seemed to be that they could be more consistent in their performances than sprinters.  Though he did have good sprinters on occasion.

EFBAB

[Piglywigly]

Points are accrued by a descending rankings list per event. The rankings are only a tacit predictor of a NCAA finish.  Though team depth for Conference Championships is all important, it is the team with a handful of star athletes that normally win the National Championships. For example, Oregon's distance ace Edward Cheserek guarantees his team 20+ points at national meets.  When 50 to 60 points is normally needed to take nationals, one star athlete can usually get you halfway there.  Florida usually has an athlete of similar scoring capabilities. The Razorbacks during Coach McDonnell's tenure routinely had 2 or 3 athletes that could score 20 points in national meets.

Some years it takes 50 to 60 points to win indoors.  This year it looks like 40 points could very well win it.  There is no dominant team this year.  The link below is a form tracking app that shows projected team scores based on the descending order list.  It allows you to move people around within each event to adjust the team scores.  It makes no 'predictions'. It is purely based on the performance list.  For example, Cheserek is currently #1 in both the 3K and 5K and #6 in the Mile.  He won't compete in all three, but since that is currently unknown, his points are counted in all three.

https://web.nmsu.edu/~ogden/formtracker/ft-tfrrs.php?list=tfrrs-indoor-16&gender=men

[ICEman]

Some years it takes 50 to 60 points to win indoors.  This year it looks like 40 points could very well win it.  There is no dominant team this year.  The link below is a form tracking app that shows projected team scores based on the descending order list.  It allows you to move people around within each event to adjust the team scores.  It makes no 'predictions'. It is purely based on the performance list.  For example, Cheserek is currently #1 in both the 3K and 5K and #6 in the Mile.  He won't compete in all three, but since that is currently unknown, his points are counted in all three.

https://web.nmsu.edu/~ogden/formtracker/ft-tfrrs.php?list=tfrrs-indoor-16&gender=men

Regardless where Ches ranks on the descending list, he will be favored in any event he enters.  Even with OkieSU having the lead in the DMR on this list, Ches will be able to chase down OSU's top miler on the final leg.

[Piglywigly]

Regardless where Ches ranks on the descending list, he will be favored in any event he enters.  Even with OkieSU having the lead in the DMR on this list, Ches will be able to chase down OSU's top miler on the final leg.

Absolutely, he will likely win whichever two individual events he decides to run, but I don't see any way he would be able to triple.

Oregon is currently out of the DMR.  They are number 13 and only 12 teams are accepted on relays.  So unless one of the other teams decides not to run or Oregon runs a really fast DMR between now and then (unlikely considering that the 'fast' DMR races are all over), they won't be running the DMR.