High Point in the Tourny

[Johnboy]

How does a team like High Point get into the NCAA Tournament?  I know the answer is going to be because they will more than likely win their conference... but geez.

http://espn.go.com/ncb/bracketology

[The_Iceman]

How does a team like High Point get into the NCAA Tournament?  I know the answer is going to be because they will more than likely win their conference... but geez.

http://espn.go.com/ncb/bracketology

Isn't that the team everyone uses as a punch line when talking about scheduling?

[nextlevel]

How does a team like High Point get into the NCAA Tournament?  I know the answer is going to be because they will more than likely win their conference... but geez.

http://espn.go.com/ncb/bracketology

Because they win their conference tourney.

There are 351 schools in 32 conferences in D1 Basketball.

Out of the 68 teams selected into the tournament 32 are auto-bids.

That leaves 36 at large bids.

There has been around 10 different conferences represented in the top25 this year, assuming these ranked teams also won their conference, that leaves 15 teams taking an at large bid "automatically".

That leaves 21 at large bids. For every conference tourney upset in a 1 bid league involving a top25 team (MVC for example) that is a bid "stolen" from the 21 available.

Point? There is a fallacy that making the NCAA tournament is not big feat in D1 basketball, even tho only 19% of the teams in D1 basketball does so.

In comparison there were 35 bowl games last year or 70 of the 125 FBS teams made a bowl game (56%)

[The Hogfather]

I really think it ought to be the best 68 teams in the nation.  I don't think a team should be able to get in by winning their conference tournament.  Teams like Arkansas can wipe the floor with teams like High Point by 30+ points in the non-conference portion of our schedule, yet they get to go to the NCAAT because they win their scrub conference tourney.

[Hawg Red]

I think 13 seeds and down should all have to play play-in games. That's going to encompass all of the "bad" auto-bids and allow for more high-major bubble teams.

Please don't try to correct me on the logistics of that because I just looked at the projected field and decided where I thought he cut-off should be. I decided around 12/13 that I started seeing teams that really better than most of the bubble teams. I decided on 13 seeds for play-in games because we often see 12 over 5 upsets.

[Cardinals717]

I disagree that conference tournament winners should be exlcluded for more major conference bubble teams. Do bubble teams ever have a chance to win it all? You're never leaving out a team that might win it. Now granted, the automatic qualifying team from the Atlantic Sun has no chance either. But at least they get to show up in the games. It's hard to judge teams based upon differing schedules, but once you're in, all you have to do is win. So great. Plus an upset like Vermont over Kansas is much cooler than an upset like Nebraska or some other average major conference team over Pitt or something. If Arkansas is on the bubble and gets left out, and High Point gets in, it's not like either team has a chance to win it all anyway.

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

I think 13 seeds and down should all have to play play-in games. That's going to encompass all of the "bad" auto-bids and allow for more high-major bubble teams.

Please don't try to correct me on the logistics of that because I just looked at the projected field and decided where I thought he cut-off should be. I decided around 12/13 that I started seeing teams that really better than most of the bubble teams. I decided on 13 seeds for play-in games because we often see 12 over 5 upsets.

If you really want it to be fun expand the field to 128.  The NCAA now owns the NIT so this could be done very easily and still maintain the NIT.  At 128 the % making the post season is 36% still much less than football.

Let the conferences have the auto bid still but after that their would still be 90 or so at large teams.  So with 128 have the first weekend all on campus.  The 64 winners of the first weekend then advance to the NCAA and 64 losers go to the NIT.

This way every team truly earned it's way into the NCAA.

[Hawg Red]

I disagree that conference tournament winners should be exlcluded for more major conference bubble teams. Do bubble teams ever have a chance to win it all? You're never leaving out a team that might win it. Now granted, the automatic qualifying team from the Atlantic Sun has no chance either. But at least they get to show up in the games. It's hard to judge teams based upon differing schedules, but once you're in, all you have to do is win. So great. Plus an upset like Vermont over Kansas is much cooler than an upset like Nebraska or some other average major conference team over Pitt or something. If Arkansas is on the bubble and gets left out, and High Point gets in, it's not like either team has a chance to win it all anyway.

I could go both ways on this.

Part of me wants to see the best 64 teams, part of me like the mayhem caused by a nobody school knocking someone off the first two days.

[Adam Stokes]

If you really want it to be fun expand the field to 128.  The NCAA now owns the NIT so this could be done very easily and still maintain the NIT.  At 128 the % making the post season is 36% still much less than football.

Let the conferences have the auto bid still but after that their would still be 90 or so at large teams.  So with 128 have the first weekend all on campus.  The 64 winners of the first weekend then advance to the NCAA and 64 losers go to the NIT.

This way every team truly earned it's way into the NCAA.

I think 96 would be a good number, with the top 32 getting a first round bye.

[Hawg Red]

If you really want it to be fun expand the field to 128.  The NCAA now owns the NIT so this could be done very easily and still maintain the NIT.  At 128 the % making the post season is 36% still much less than football.

Let the conferences have the auto bid still but after that their would still be 90 or so at large teams.  So with 128 have the first weekend all on campus.  The 64 winners of the first weekend then advance to the NCAA and 64 losers go to the NIT.

This way every team truly earned it's way into the NCAA.

That's quite interesting. +1

[Cardinals717]

I could go both ways on this.

Part of me wants to see the best 64 teams, part of me like the mayhem caused by a nobody school knocking someone off the first two days.

I mean how fun was it seeing Florida Gulf Coast last year? Or Missouri getting beat by a 15 seed? The first weekend of the tournament are 4 of the best sports days of the year.

[-Blu]

If you really want it to be fun expand the field to 128.  The NCAA now owns the NIT so this could be done very easily and still maintain the NIT.  At 128 the % making the post season is 36% still much less than football.

Let the conferences have the auto bid still but after that their would still be 90 or so at large teams.  So with 128 have the first weekend all on campus.  The 64 winners of the first weekend then advance to the NCAA and 64 losers go to the NIT.

This way every team truly earned it's way into the NCAA.

That is a great idea. 

[azhog10]

Isn't that the team everyone uses as a punch line when talking about scheduling?

They are one of the non-conf teams like them, USA, and ULL that so many were complaining about that we shouldn't have played. Looks like a few of those may get into the tourney afterall.......

[Hawg Red]

High Point's conference is really bad. They have to take one of them.

[HamIAm]

Permit me to digress to football to make a point.

Remember the 2006 football season?  Ohio State and Michigan met as the #1 and #2 teams.  After the game ABC was pushing for and many commentators were agreeing these were the two teams that should play for the BCS title. They didn't and both were soundly beaten in their bowl games. Ohio State was trounced by Florida 41-14 in the BCS title game while Michigan was beaten by USC 32-18 in the Rose Bowl.  The human element was certainly pushing the wrong teams there.   

Suppose you had been Florida.  Wouldn't you have been steamed if you got left out of the game because some committee thought winning your conference wasn't as good as second place in the Big 10?

This could just as easily happen when you take away conference automatic bids in basketball.  Who's to say High Point couldn't win it. Yes we all think High Point has no chance, but the point of the tournament is to decide it on the court, not in somebody's mind.

You want to win the NCAAt? Win your conference's automatic bid and no one can leave you out. Your fate is in your hands, if you lose your conference's bid you have no one to blame but yourself.

[The Hogfather]

Permit me to digress to football to make a point.

Remember the 2006 football season?  Ohio State and Michigan met as the #1 and #2 teams.  After the game ABC was pushing for and many commentators were agreeing these were the two teams that should play for the BCS title. They didn't and both were soundly beaten in their bowl games. Ohio State was trounced by Florida 41-14 in the BCS title game while Michigan was beaten by USC 32-18 in the Rose Bowl.  The human element was certainly pushing the wrong teams there.   

Suppose you had been Florida.  Wouldn't you have been steamed if you got left out of the game because some committee thought winning your conference wasn't as good as second place in the Big 10?

This could just as easily happen when you take away conference automatic bids in basketball.  Who's to say High Point couldn't win it. Yes we all think High Point has no chance, but the point of the tournament is to decide it on the court, not in somebody's mind.

You want to win the NCAAt? Win your conference's automatic bid and no one can leave you out. Your fate is in your hands, if you lose your conference's bid you have no one to blame but yourself.

How about this?  Only auto bids are for teams that win their conference in the regular season AND win the conference tournament?  The rest of the teams are chosen by the committee.

A UALR team that finishes 6th in the Sun Belt with a 15-19 record shouldn't be allowed into the NCAAT, in my opinion.

[The Hogfather]

Also, I do know that High Point cannot win the NCAAT.

They started the season 4-11.  They lost games by 41, 28, 21, 11, 15, 35, etc.  We beat them by 41 and we'll probably have to win 7 games down the strech to even be thought of for an at large spot.

I like seing teams like High Point upset the bigger schools.  However, realistically, they have no business being in the tournament that decides the National Champion.

[HamIAm]

Just wondering, whats the lowest ranking within a conference that has ever won the NCAA tournament?

[The Hogfather]

Just wondering, whats the lowest ranking within a conference that has ever won the NCAA tournament?

Who cares?

[nextlevel]

Just wondering, whats the lowest ranking within a conference that has ever won the NCAA tournament?

NC State back in the 80s, most likely.

[HamIAm]

Didn't Villanova pull one off back in Al McGuire's last year?

[HamIAm]

Who cares?

Apparently not you.

[nextlevel]

How about this?  Only auto bids are for teams that win their conference in the regular season AND win the conference tournament?  The rest of the teams are chosen by the committee.

A UALR team that finishes 6th in the Sun Belt with a 15-19 record shouldn't be allowed into the NCAAT, in my opinion.

Well, now if a team like High Point wins their conference's regular season championship, but fails to win the conference tourney they are guaranteed a spot in the NIT.

Basically, it is harder for a power conference school to make a post season tournament today as an at large than it was when the tournament first expanded to 64.

The rise of the mid-majors can be attributed to the reduction in scholarships (2 less players per team in power conferences trickling their way down, it adds up).

The NIT has spots "taken" by 1 bid league teams having different conference champions.

That leaves the CBI which is a buy in tournament, none of the games are televised, this is the last option for a power conference school while the mid-major schools have the opportunity at the CIT.

[The Hogfather]

Well, now if a team like High Point wins their conference's regular season championship, but fails to win the conference tourney they are guaranteed a spot in the NIT.

Right.  But, that conference wouldn't get a bid in my scenario.  Unless High Point, who won the regular season, won their conference tourney, that conference wouldn't get a bid.

[The Hogfather]

Didn't Villanova pull one off back in Al McGuire's last year?

8-seed in 1985.

[nextlevel]

Didn't Villanova pull one off back in Al McGuire's last year?

No. Rollie Massimino was the HC when they won it in 85.

They finished 4th in the 9 team big east behind #3 St. Johns, #1 Georgetown, and #15 Syracuse with a 9-7 conference record.

NC State was 4th in the ACC with a 8-6 record in 83.

Al McGuire was the HC at Marquette and did win the NC in his final season (1977).

[The_Iceman]

One thing I think they should do is make all 15 and 16 seeds play in games. That will give you a 72 team bracket. Or, make the 13/14/15/16 seeds all play in games and make it an 80 team bracket.

That way, you get more good teams in the tournament while not messing too much with any likely outcome.

[The Hogfather]

One thing I think they should do is make all 15 and 16 seeds play in games. That will give you a 72 team bracket. Or, make the 13/14/15/16 seeds all play in games and make it an 80 team bracket.

That way, you get more good teams in the tournament while not messing too much with any likely outcome.

I'd be ok with this.  Add another 12 at large teams like Arkansas, etc. to play all these scrub teams like High Point in the 13/14/15/16 play-in games.

[Hawg Red]

Under any formant, *the* tournament, to me, does not start until only 64 teams are in the field. I'm okay with having 80+ teams initially and having 16+ paired down by play-in games.

[dgfclt]

How does a team like High Point get into the NCAA Tournament?  I know the answer is going to be because they will more than likely win their conference... but geez.

http://espn.go.com/ncb/bracketology

I hear ya but that is what makes it fun.  I have heard some people in the past say invite everyone.  In essence everyone is invited due to the automatic bid if they win their own conference tournament.