NBA suspensions fair?

[mbgrulz]

i am a "rules are rules" kinda guy normally, but i think that the suns were wronged on the court, AND by the league.

the league also has ignored several cheap shots by the spurs. it seemed like the league was going by the "let it go, it's the playoffs" mentality. nobody cried when the league turned a blind eye to bruce bowen, and the same woulda went for stoudamire and diaw.

i am really disappointed b/c great basketball has taken a backseat to descisions made by suits.

did i mention that i can't stand the spurs?

[The Boar War]

No the suspensions aren't fair but at this point there is nothing else that can be done.  The commissioner eluded to a possible change in the future.  I hate it that the team that committed the flagrant foul is going to be punished far less than the team that was fouled.  Amare Stoudamire by himself scores 23 ppg whereas Horry averages 4 ppg. 

By the way I was happy that NBA players stood up for their teamates and tried to fight like men.  I didn't see anyone try to stick in a cheap shot and run away.  Nor did I see any players heading into the stands.  Actions like those are why the rule has to be interpreted strictly every time.  It's just to bad that it hurts the Suns just when they took over t he momentum.

[Brutalis]

or the blind eye to manu.
the fact that phoenix either is overachieving or just don't understand how to play playoff basketball consistently, and finally that night down 10 they usually fold but didn't. it shows some better mentality and experience. the league just did what was fair from the position and job they are in. amare went out there to knock heads, and so did diaw. but i won't be surprised one bit if the suns win at home in game 5 even without. i mean this is the kind of stuff that gives teams a reason to fight. regardless of how whiny they are.

[yraciv]

I think it's perfectly fair!  Actually I'm only saying that cause I'm a Spurs fan, and this greatly helps our chances to win the series.  My honest opinion is the rule needs to be changed, and you can't fault those guys for jumping up after that.

[nughaud]

All the NBA players know the rules.  After the Pacers fight a few years back things have been revamped and told to the players over and over.  There has been this whole perceived "bad boy" look that the NBA is trying to get over and this is one of the rules which is strickly enforced.

It is a bad break for PHX, but Steve Nash looked like Reggie Miller last night after he only received a shoulder to his shoulder.  If you had replaced Horry with a freight train, you would not of known the difference.  The whole PHX team keeps crying about Bowen, but the league both times said that nothing happened and nothing has happened.  Maybe if PHX worried more about following the rules and letting the league take care of things and stopped whining after every game they would know that when there is a foul, flagrant or not that you stay on the bench. 

If Raja Bell had not of run up to Horry after Nash jumped up faster than a crack whore looking for a score, this whole thing would of been settled by the refs in 1 minute.  Instead Nash jumps up and runs up and starts pushing on Horry, then Bell gets involved. 

Sure Horry fouled, sure it was a flagarant foul, but it was nothing and if you watched the post game Steve was joking about throwing some punches and then he joked he was seeing stars.

The bottom line is, the whole idea of sticking up for your teammates is one thing, but leave that to the players on the court.  Don't throw punches and don't bring the game down like it has been by a few players in the league.

Horry is a great player aka "Big Shot Bob", and he made a mistake and will pay for it.  Too bad 2 players from PHX didn't have their head in the game, which could cost PHX the series.

I bet they will learn that rule one way or the other... this time it was the other.

[mbgrulz]

well, i guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

i see the spurs as a bunch of whining babies.

tim duncan has yet to commit a foul in his career judging by his post-call reactions.

you talk about bringing the game down, and i agree with what you said about de-thugging the league. i think that if i saw my teammate get checked into the scorers table, my instinct would be to jump up and get ready to do something.

"it's the playoffs, let it go" that mind-set applied with the spurs (kobe was suspended for similar things as horry and bowen), it should have also applied with the suns.

[nughaud]

Ya I'm not saying I agree with the rule, but it's something that must be followed, and if players can't follow that simple rule which has been instilled over the years, what do they do off the court?

The reason I was saying that PHX was whining is because they keep sending tapes to the league office and complaining about dirty fouls by Bowen.  I'm not talking on the court, where it seems every player in the NBA each time the whistle blows look at the refs funny, throws their hands in the air and argue as if their life was on the line.  I'd like the league to take a stance on talking to the refs about fouls, similar to the MLB rule where you can't argue balls and strikes.  I think the coach can argue, yell etc, but the players shouldn't be allowed to argue a foul, they could only talk to the refs about looking for a foul or illegal screen etc.

[gduchar]

They all know the rules. I'm a huge Spurs fan and I think Horry should be suspended for the next game.

The refereeing the last 2 games has been some of the worst I have ever seen. The Zebras basically kept Phoenix in game 4. Maybe some of the anger at the end of the game had to do with the ridiculous free throw disparity.

Every time Nash trips over himself or a gust of wind knocks him down he gets a foul/charge called.

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

this is dad gum ridiculous

They pretty much just gave SA the series when they suspended Amare and Boris.

SA started the entire thing but Phoenix gets punished. And it really was not a fight.

Gotta get that rule changed.

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

They all know the rules. I'm a huge Spurs fan and I think Horry should be suspended for the next game.

The refereeing the last 2 games has been some of the worst I have ever seen. The Zebras basically kept Phoenix in game 4. Maybe some of the anger at the end of the game had to do with the ridiculous free throw disparity.

Every time Nash trips over himself or a gust of wind knocks him down he gets a foul/charge called.

gotta make up for all the fouls they didnt call on Bowen in game 3.

[neahogfan180]

Fact - There is a double standard in favor of the Spurs

Reasoning - There was an altercation between Elson (Spurs) and Jones (Suns) in Game 4, Duncan was on the bench and left the "vicinity of the bench" and had to be pushed off the floor by Bowen.  Granted this altercation may have lasted 10 seconds.  Stu Jackson said it was simply an enforcing of the rule in the case of Diaw and Stoudemire.  He also said that the situation between Elson and Jones wasn't an altercation.  Another simple fact is that if two people get face to face or chest to chest with someone in anger it is an altercation rather it lasts 10 seconds or 1 minute.  The Nash/Horry situation didn't last a minute.

If Stu Jackson and the league was interested in enforcing the rule to its fullest like he said, than Duncan would be suspended for tonight's game.  Simply stated the league or Stu Jackson is not interested in displaying equal justice.

I would not have a problem with the suspensions if the league would have displayed equal justice in reference to both altercations in Game 4.

Another fact - I am a Huge Suns fan and have been since 1988 when they drafted Andrew Lang.  Woo Pig Sooiee, Razorbacks.

[gduchar]

Fact - There is a double standard in favor of the Spurs

Reasoning - There was an altercation between Elson (Spurs) and Jones (Suns) in Game 4, Duncan was on the bench and left the "vicinity of the bench" and had to be pushed off the floor by Bowen.  Granted this altercation may have lasted 10 seconds.  Stu Jackson said it was simply an enforcing of the rule in the case of Diaw and Stoudemire.  He also said that the situation between Elson and Jones wasn't an altercation.  Another simple fact is that if two people get face to face or chest to chest with someone in anger it is an altercation rather it lasts 10 seconds or 1 minute.  The Nash/Horry situation didn't last a minute.

If Stu Jackson and the league was interested in enforcing the rule to its fullest like he said, than Duncan would be suspended for tonight's game.  Simply stated the league or Stu Jackson is not interested in displaying equal justice.

I would not have a problem with the suspensions if the league would have displayed equal justice in reference to both altercations in Game 4.

Another fact - I am a Huge Suns fan and have been since 1988 when they drafted Andrew Lang.  Woo Pig Sooiee, Razorbacks.

This post = teh dumbs. Why would there be a conspiracy IN FAVOR of a team that draws low TV ratings in the finals? Phoenix has a huge number of casual fans that would tune in to watch them run around. Only true old school basketball fans enjoy watching SA and Detroit play and there finals series 2 years ago was the lowest rated in history, IIRC.

[gduchar]

They all know the rules. I'm a huge Spurs fan and I think Horry should be suspended for the next game.

The refereeing the last 2 games has been some of the worst I have ever seen. The Zebras basically kept Phoenix in game 4. Maybe some of the anger at the end of the game had to do with the ridiculous free throw disparity.

Every time Nash trips over himself or a gust of wind knocks him down he gets a foul/charge called.

gotta make up for all the fouls they didnt call on Bowen in game 3.

right, anytime someone doesn't play ole' defense on Nash its a foul. Thomas could be called for a foul nearly every time Duncan gets the ball. do you really want the ref's to start calling ticky-tacks and holds?

all i want is the game to be called evenly and without too many misses. no team should ever shoot 20+ more free throws than the other, that's ridiculous. ask the mav's fans how they feel about last years finals.

[TRUHOG718]

Yes that rule is not nogotiable. And by not suspending them the League would be opening up a pandoras box if it were to happen again this playoffs. They will probably change the rule now because there should be a grey area with intent to harm vs intent to help the situation being involved in the suspension.

[HogBaptist]

you guys are blind gduchar....the bench was cleared in game four by the spurs, but the rule wasn't applied....something is fishy about that.

[neahogfan180]

gduchar - Simply put, the Spurs are a good ole boys franchise, with an aww shucks attitude.  The Spurs franchise will say yes sir/no sir to David Stern.  The Suns on the other hand have a relatively new ownership, 2004, and are seen as a young, in your face, street ball style basketball team.  The league has proven in the past years that this is exactly the type of team, image or style they do not want in their league.  This isn't the first or last "bad" decision that the powers that be of the NBA will make that will negatively effect ratings and the ability to get this great sport back to relevancy in the world of professional sports.

[gduchar]

you guys are blind gduchar....the bench was cleared in game four by the spurs, but the rule wasn't applied....something is fishy about that.

i read stu jackson's explanation. reacting to a hard foul =/= reacting to an altercation in his mind. i'm sure he watched the tape numerous times before making his decision.

i don't think the sun's players should be suspended and i don't like the rule. i think Horry should be done for the rest of the series. he's got too much experience to pull that crap. all he had to do was do the old "grab and hug" end of game foul. the forearm was completely uncalled for. that's not cheap, however, cheap is trying to grab jerseys and trip people when the ref's aren't looking. Horry's move was just blatant agression.

don't blame the spurs because of the way the rules are enforced. the idea that the league wants the Suns to lose is ludicrous.

my point still stands about the free throw disparity.

[gduchar]

gduchar - Simply put, the Spurs are a good ole boys franchise, with an aww shucks attitude.  The Spurs franchise will say yes sir/no sir to David Stern.  The Suns on the other hand have a relatively new ownership, 2004, and are seen as a young, in your face, street ball style basketball team.  The league has proven in the past years that this is exactly the type of team, image or style they do not want in their league.  This isn't the first or last "bad" decision that the powers that be of the NBA will make that will negatively effect ratings and the ability to get this great sport back to relevancy in the world of professional sports.

I don't even know where to begin. So, is the "aww shucks" yes sir, no sir attitude a bad thing in your opinion?

The league has changed the rules to make Phoenix's style more effective by disallowing hand checking. You are completely off base on this point. The league is competely catering to drive and dish teams. SA is one of the few remaining teams that run their offense through the post as a result of these rule changes.

The Suns do not play streetball. They run very complicated primary and secondary breaks and are well coached. The have probably the best high pick and roll offense in the league make some of the best off ball cuts of probably any team as well.

Additionally, the double teams that Marion used at the end of game 4 show a very high level coaching strategy and outstanding execution.

Please don't call this "street-ball", it makes you look foolish to a diehard fan like me.

[GBPackerFan]

I have always hated Horry.  His suspension is fair, maybe should have been just one game though, but Amare and Diaw should not have been suspended.

[neahogfan180]

gduchar - I to am aware of the complicated intricacies of the style of play that the Suns play.  To the uninformed or simply the casual fan watching the game for enjoyment it can look like that.  It is a style that is fun to watch as someone would have fun watching a skilled pickup game.  You can not deny the truth to that.

It is this casual fan that the league must get interested in going to the games, watching the games on tv and buying the merchandise.  The educated fan and passionate fans are what are keeping the league a float.

Ow, and I am not worried about looking foolish to you.

[U.P. HOGG]

I hate Horry, Flip Flop Manu Ginobli, and all the Spurs.  The Suns got the raw deal on all of this.  I think Nash hasn't been able to go through one game without being kicked, spit on, or body checked this whole series.  Amare didn't step foot on the court, and you could make the case that he was checking in just by the fact that he took his warm-ups off and never came onto the court.  Spurs are the luckiest bunch of babies in the NBA.  Did I mention that I hate the Spurs.

[neahogfan180]

You say that the league has changed its rules to benefit the Suns.  How about the rule that was changed to allow zone defenses.  A zone defense makes it tougher to get into the lane and play an up tempo style.

Copied from and article on basketball in encarta: A good 2-1-2 zone defense makes it difficult to pass the ball from near the basket back outside, hampers teams from initiating a smooth offense, and is effective in slowing down a fast-break style of offense. Zone defense was once illegal in the National Basketball Association (NBA), but the league changed its rules in 2001 to allow it.

Just wanted to provide a little bit of proof that wasn't just based on my knowledge since some think I am looking foolish, lol.

[gduchar]

gduchar - I to am aware of the complicated intricacies of the style of play that the Suns play.  To the uninformed or simply the casual fan watching the game for enjoyment it can look like that.  It is a style that is fun to watch as someone would have fun watching a skilled pickup game.  You can not deny the truth to that.

It is this casual fan that the league must get interested in going to the games, watching the games on tv and buying the merchandise.  The educated fan and passionate fans are what are keeping the league a float.

Ow, and I am not worried about looking foolish to you.

You made the statement equating the Suns to a streetball team. If you now disagree with yourself then so be it. I enjoy watching the Spurs run the half court set just as much as watching Phoenix run the secondary break.
I agree that the league is trying to entice a higher market share from the "casual fan" demographic. Thanks for proving my point about the idiocy of claiming a league conspiracy to ensure a Spurs victory.

You say that the league has changed its rules to benefit the Suns.  How about the rule that was changed to allow zone defenses.  A zone defense makes it tougher to get into the lane and play an up tempo style.

Copied from and article on basketball in encarta: A good 2-1-2 zone defense makes it difficult to pass the ball from near the basket back outside, hampers teams from initiating a smooth offense, and is effective in slowing down a fast-break style of offense. Zone defense was once illegal in the National Basketball Association (NBA), but the league changed its rules in 2001 to allow it.

Just wanted to provide a little bit of proof that wasn't just based on my knowledge since some think I am looking foolish, lol.

Countless NBA analysts, sports writers, fans, and anyone that has watched a game since the Jordan Bulls era disagrees with you. Besides the league doesn't allow a full zone and a zone is only effective in slowing down a fast-break style of offense when the defense is able to get back and set up. Which, in case you haven't noticed, isn't really a fast break opportunity anyway.
That snippet you pasted doesn't even make any sense. A 2-1-2 is designed to keep the ball OUT of the paint not make it tough to pass back out. Who wrote this garbage?

[chiefsfan]

I seem to remember the Spurs always getting the breaks against the Lakers back when they would have epic playoff battles.   I dont think its a conspiracy for the Spurs to win, but I do think the league wants this series to go 7.  They know that the Western Conference Final wont have the interest now that Dallas is gone and Golden State is gone, and will want as much from TV ratings in this series as they can get

If you dont believe me, the Suns got alot of calls in game 4, is it coincidence that at the time this game was being played, every other conference semifinal series was at 3-1, with a team looking to close it out in the next game.   game 5's when the series is 3-1 doesnt draw ratings and the league needed a good series out of someone.

The suspension simply spice this situation up, you cant suspend Tim Duncan for a game, because the Spurs cannot win without Duncan, the Suns can win without Stoudamire and Diaw.  Imagine the ratings you would get for a game 7 between these 2 teams with all the major players back from suspension.  That would be more exciting then watching Detroit blow away Lebron in the East Final, or the Spurs/Suns winner blowing away the Jazz in the west final

Ive been saying this for 5 years now, the league wants series to go for as long as possible to attract television ratings, and it works.  It doesnt want a particular team to win in game 7...but it sure wants that series to get to 7 games

[hogfan98]

you guys are blind gduchar....the bench was cleared in game four by the spurs, but the rule wasn't applied....something is fishy about that.

i agree.  using the same standards that pheonix was held to, bowen and duncan should be suspended.

[gduchar]

I seem to remember the Spurs always getting the breaks against the Lakers back when they would have epic playoff battles.  

I seem to remember Shaq getting every call. You know who I really feel bad for? Arvedis Sarbonis, and yes I know I didn't spell that correctly.

you guys are blind gduchar....the bench was cleared in game four by the spurs, but the rule wasn't applied....something is fishy about that.

i agree.  using the same standards that pheonix was held to, bowen and duncan should be suspended.

too bad stu jackson doesn't agree with the message board savantes.

[chiefsfan]

I seem to remember the Spurs always getting the breaks against the Lakers back when they would have epic playoff battles.  

I seem to remember Shaq getting every call. You know who I really feel bad for? Arvedis Sarbonis, and yes I know I didn't spell that correctly.

Your a spur fan, so youre opinion may be a wee bit biased.   Fact of the matter is that the Spurs are biggest whiners in the league, and they get more calls to go there way as a result.  Its smart by them to be that way, officials are more likely to give them the next call the more theyc omplain

[gduchar]

I seem to remember the Spurs always getting the breaks against the Lakers back when they would have epic playoff battles.  

I seem to remember Shaq getting every call. You know who I really feel bad for? Arvedis Sarbonis, and yes I know I didn't spell that correctly.

Your a spur fan, so youre opinion may be a wee bit biased.   Fact of the matter is that the Spurs are biggest whiners in the league, and they get more calls to go there way as a result.  Its smart by them to be that way, officials are more likely to give them the next call the more theyc omplain

show me where i said that the spurs were not whiners. Duncan is a notorious whiner but he's also one of the 10 best players ever, i'll cut him some slack on his bug-eyed incredulous looks. he's still nowhere near stephen jackson / rasheed wallace levels.
be fair, all NBA players and coaches whine about calls. watch Stephen Jackson in the next Utah/ GS game.

[HogBaptist]

you guys are blind gduchar....the bench was cleared in game four by the spurs, but the rule wasn't applied....something is fishy about that.

i read stu jackson's explanation. reacting to a hard foul =/= reacting to an altercation in his mind. i'm sure he watched the tape numerous times before making his decision.

i don't think the sun's players should be suspended and i don't like the rule. i think Horry should be done for the rest of the series. he's got too much experience to pull that crap. all he had to do was do the old "grab and hug" end of game foul. the forearm was completely uncalled for. that's not cheap, however, cheap is trying to grab jerseys and trip people when the ref's aren't looking. Horry's move was just blatant agression.

don't blame the spurs because of the way the rules are enforced. the idea that the league wants the Suns to lose is ludicrous.

my point still stands about the free throw disparity.

i don't buy that argument because stu jackson said that the suspensions were automatic.  he didn't say he deliberated about it, but said they were automatic.  So why were they automatic for the Suns and not the spurs?  The Suns bench players were not in the altercation.  Its the same situation with different outcomes.  Why do you think that Stu Jackson said that he didn't need a precedent of this situation.  He said it was an automatic call on the suspensions.

Obviously he didn't follow the precedent because he suspended the players unlike the Spurs players in Game 4.

[gduchar]

you guys are blind gduchar....the bench was cleared in game four by the spurs, but the rule wasn't applied....something is fishy about that.

i read stu jackson's explanation. reacting to a hard foul =/= reacting to an altercation in his mind. i'm sure he watched the tape numerous times before making his decision.

i don't think the sun's players should be suspended and i don't like the rule. i think Horry should be done for the rest of the series. he's got too much experience to pull that crap. all he had to do was do the old "grab and hug" end of game foul. the forearm was completely uncalled for. that's not cheap, however, cheap is trying to grab jerseys and trip people when the ref's aren't looking. Horry's move was just blatant agression.

don't blame the spurs because of the way the rules are enforced. the idea that the league wants the Suns to lose is ludicrous.

my point still stands about the free throw disparity.

i don't buy that argument because stu jackson said that the suspensions were automatic.  he didn't say he deliberated about it, but said they were automatic.  So why were they automatic for the Suns and not the spurs?  The Suns bench players were not in the altercation.  Its the same situation with different outcomes.  Why do you think that Stu Jackson said that he didn't need a precedent of this situation.  He said it was an automatic call on the suspensions.

Obviously he didn't follow the precedent because he suspended the players unlike the Spurs players in Game 4.

he interpreted the Horry/Nash situation as an altercation. the other situation apparently wasn't an "altercation" in his mind, at least that's what they were talking about on the radio today. the interpretation is what determines if the automatic suspension rule takes effect.

like i said earlier, i don't think that the Suns players should be suspended and Horry should be gone for 2 games if not the whole series.

[chiefsfan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070516

pretty good article on this debacle.  Interesting point on Kirilenko's flop in the GS/UTah game yesterday that I thought was a blantant flop to try and draw a foul and everyone else accepted it as a hard foul on a free throw

The NBA is turning into a high scoring soccer game

[football-writer]

I personally wished someone had put "big shot Bob"..on his "cheap shot" backside

[gduchar]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070516

pretty good article on this debacle.  Interesting point on Kirilenko's flop in the GS/UTah game yesterday that I thought was a blantant flop to try and draw a foul and everyone else accepted it as a hard foul on a free throw

The NBA is turning into a high scoring soccer game

simmons is great most of the time.

[Brutalis]

I seem to remember the Spurs always getting the breaks against the Lakers back when they would have epic playoff battles.   

I seem to remember Shaq getting every call. You know who I really feel bad for? Arvedis Sarbonis, and yes I know I didn't spell that correctly.

Your a spur fan, so youre opinion may be a wee bit biased.   Fact of the matter is that the Spurs are biggest whiners in the league, and they get more calls to go there way as a result.  Its smart by them to be that way, officials are more likely to give them the next call the more theyc omplain

Irony is that THAT is whining, right there. Ignorance. Suns are fishing.

[mbgrulz]

GO PISTONS!!!

it is sad that i am actually saying that, but i'll root for anybody who can knock the spurs out.

i'd be okay with cleveland winning it, but they can't beat the spurs in a 7 game series...so yeah, GO PISTONS!!!

[mword]

no, don't punish the victims

[gduchar]

the NBA is a joke they have their favorites and this proves it....

yeah, your statement proves something else.

[gduchar]

the NBA is a joke they have their favorites and this proves it....

yeah, your statement proves something else.

what does my statement prove?....

inability to form rational conclusions based on the evidence. you're just another whiner phoenix fan.

[mbgrulz]

the NBA is a joke they have their favorites and this proves it....

yeah, your statement proves something else.

what does my statement prove?....

inability to form rational conclusions based on the evidence. you're just another whiner phoenix fan.

whether PHX fans are whinning or not, the majority of the nation was for the suns. the sports nation poll on espn and the drop in viewership for the conference finals are evidence to that. the spurs are a really, really good team, but i do think they got every advantage they needed to win.

i just hope the spurs get pounded by the pistons. i think it will be a great series. both teams have excellent rosters, and both teams play as a cohesive unit. outta be a good one.

[gduchar]

the NBA is a joke they have their favorites and this proves it....

yeah, your statement proves something else.

what does my statement prove?....

inability to form rational conclusions based on the evidence. you're just another whiner phoenix fan.

whether PHX fans are whinning or not, the majority of the nation was for the suns. the sports nation poll on espn and the drop in viewership for the conference finals are evidence to that. the spurs are a really, really good team, but i do think they got every advantage they needed to win.

i just hope the spurs get pounded by the pistons. i think it will be a great series. both teams have excellent rosters, and both teams play as a cohesive unit. outta be a good one.

how about game 4? care to comment on that?

[gduchar]

the NBA is a joke they have their favorites and this proves it....

yeah, your statement proves something else.

what does my statement prove?....

inability to form rational conclusions based on the evidence. you're just another whiner phoenix fan.

nope i just can tell when one team gets an advantage and one doesnt.....

the NBA is still a joke....its boring and not very much fun to watch since the suns got knocked out.....cant wait for the pistons to hand it to your spurs....

i'm tired of arguing with you and pointing out your inconsistent logic. change the channel if you can't handle watching the better team, better coach, and better franchise beat a one-trick pony like the suns.