This is why many of us can't tolerate these mediocre teams

[forrest city joe]

We should be a NCAA tournament lock these next two years, after all Heath had us to that point. Well that may not be fair as Heath stepped into an ideal utopia of a basketball program, nothing like the mess he left Pel.

Yea, its all Stan's fault.Pel lovers like you will be saying that 10 years from now.WAKE UP! its Pel's fault.

[tiber]

Well;

2000 19-15 SECT Champions NCAA First Round
2005 18-12 NIT Bid, declined
2007 21-13 NCAA First Round

So we are going to win the SEC tournament and make it at least to the second round of the NCAA tournament! Now I understand the optimism, it makes absolute sense!

Pelprey's 2nd year - .009% of previous year's scoring still on team. 

If the level of ire and vitriol was actually this high for the previous 10 years as initially stated here, there would have been more heart attacks to this point and Jump Ball would be a more pleasant experience. 

Let's run off the guy that agreed to come try and fix things right when he's about to put a good core of players together. 

[tiber]

Yea, its all Stan's fault.Pel lovers like you will be saying that 10 years from now.WAKE UP! its Pel's fault.

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Wheeahhhhh

Repeat.

[nextlevel]

Pelprey's 2nd year - .009% of previous year's scoring still on team. 

If the level of ire and vitriol was actually this high for the previous 10 years as initially stated here, there would have been more heart attacks to this point and Jump Ball would be a more pleasant experience. 

Let's run off the guy that agreed to come try and fix things right when he's about to put a good core of players together.

Was Nate Rakestraw, Leven Patsasia, Montrell McDonald, Jason Henry, Andre Clarke, and Brandon Moore part of the good core of players who were to be brought together for the master plan resulting in total world domination?

[nextlevel]

I will take a year sucking like this, if i can win 2 national championships in 5 years like Roy has. and i will bet you it wont take Roy 4 or 5 years to fix it.dont ever copare Pel to a good coach.

[Eddie Goodson]

You people so confident about next year are in total denial that this current team is being held together with duct tape and baling wire. I will be shocked if Fortson attends class ever again starting the day after the season ends.

[Pork Twain]

no, man... the comparison here is about Pel's first year.   We lost everybody from the roster but Washington, Welsh, Britt and Sanchez.    All role players at the absolute max.  Our coach has little experience at all.  
The first year was with a senior-laden team.   We lost all but 2 role players, a freshman benchwarmer and a redshirt.     Hardly enough to expect much their first year as the core of the team.  2-15.   At the very least, some credit should be awarded for going from that abysmal mark to the current 7 conference wins.   2-15 to above .500 in the same conference is actually progress.   Maybe not where we want it, but it is trending upwards. 

Now the question is, do you believe we can take the next step with the new guys next year.   I do.   But some don't and that's fine.  

We'll see.   You can hold me to this....

I expect the NCAAT for the team next season.   I also expect to sign Ross and at least one of the other big 3, preferrably Madden and Mickelson.    Short of that, I will want change.

We will all see, one way or another.

[pelosihogs]

It could also be a sign that this year's SEC is the worst SEC, in terms of strength, we have seen since we entered it. The SEC West this year isn't much better than the Sun Belt, and I'm not sure it IS better than the Sun Belt.

then you are dumb

[nextlevel]

You people so confident about next year are in total denial that this current team is being held together with duct tape and baling wire. I will be shocked if Fortson attends class ever again starting the day after the season ends.

Who cares as long as we can call jostens up for SEC-W championship rings. There is nothing in Arkansas' history that says they can consistently make it to the NCAA tournament, except for of course Arkansas' history. We need to lower the bar for Pel and judge him based on improvement of the worst year in conference play since Sutton, as long as we win more then 2 games in conference play and witness him in a redbull rage try to rip his shirt off and attack players hands in the post game handshake after knocking off the almighty Missouri State, we all should be happy. Nothing in Arkansas' history says they can do better, but Arkansas' history after all.

[Eddie Goodson]

Who cares as long as we can call jostens up for SEC-W championship rings. There is nothing in Arkansas' history that says they can consistently make it to the NCAA tournament, except for of course Arkansas' history. We need to lower the bar for Pel and judge him based on improvement of the worst year in conference play since Sutton, as long as we win more then 2 games in conference play and witness him in a redbull rage try to rip his shirt off and attack players hands in the post game handshake after knocking off the almighty Missouri State, we all should be happy. Nothing in Arkansas' history says they can do better, but Arkansas' history after all.

Dang, you're right. What was I thinking?

[dhornjr1]

They suck this year because of the large percentage they lost to the NBA and the fact that they play in a basketball conference. It doesn't compare to Pel's roster turn over to NAIA schools, directional schools, deportation, and prison.

I didn't say a word about John Pelphrey and his problems.

I did say that North Carolina should be able to replace anyone they lose to the NBA and not go from a national championship caliber team to a bottom-feeder in their own conference in one year.

Williams had Marcus Ginyard coming back. He also had Team USA member Deon Thompson and projected NBA first round draft pick Ed Davis coming back. Not to mention the #3(Scout) recruiting class, which included McDonald's All-Americans John Henson, and David and Travis Wear, and four-star guards Leslie McDonald and Dexter Strickland.

There is no way in hell that team should be 14-13 and 3-9 in ACC play.

[Lieutenant Dan]

Who cares as long as we can call jostens up for SEC-W championship rings. There is nothing in Arkansas' history that says they can consistently make it to the NCAA tournament, except for of course Arkansas' history. We need to lower the bar for Pel and judge him based on improvement of the worst year in conference play since Sutton, as long as we win more then 2 games in conference play and witness him in a redbull rage try to rip his shirt off and attack players hands in the post game handshake after knocking off the almighty Missouri State, we all should be happy. Nothing in Arkansas' history says they can do better, but Arkansas' history after all.

LOVE IT.  So few people point out the embarrassment Pel was after knocking off the Big Bad Bears, giving the @#$% Yeah to the fans! 

[The Hogfather]

Was Nate Rakestraw, Leven Patsasia, Montrell McDonald, Jason Henry, Andre Clarke, and Brandon Moore part of the good core of players who were to be brought together for the master plan resulting in total world domination?

Rakestraw was a Heath recruit, Pelphrey just honored his scholarship.  Pelphrey took a chance on Patsatsia because he was announced as our coach on April 9, 2007 and had until May 19, 2007 to sign "his first class".

[The Hogfather]

I didn't say a word about John Pelphrey and his problems.

I did say that North Carolina should be able to replace anyone they lose to the NBA and not go from a national championship caliber team to a bottom-feeder in their own conference in one year.

Williams had Marcus Ginyard coming back. He also had Team USA member Deon Thompson and projected NBA first round draft pick Ed Davis coming back. Not to mention the #3(Scout) recruiting class, which included McDonald's All-Americans John Henson, and David and Travis Wear, and four-star guards Leslie McDonald and Dexter Strickland.

There is no way in hell that team should be 14-13 and 3-9 in ACC play.

Fire Roy Williams!  Ok, I have to stop before I get a 3 day ban again.

[forrest city joe]

You people so confident about next year are in total denial that this current team is being held together with duct tape and baling wire. I will be shocked if Fortson attends class ever again starting the day after the season ends.

And even with Fortson. this team is still just 7 and 6. next year, they will be saying just wait for the next year.and on and on.

[nextlevel]

Rakestraw was a Heath recruit, Pelphrey just honored his scholarship.  Pelphrey took a chance on Patsatsia because he was announced as our coach on April 9, 2007 and had until May 19, 2007 to sign "his first class".

So I guess it is also just him honoring Heath's scholarship offers to Montrell McDonald, Jason Henry, Andre Clarke, and Brandon Moore? Or was it that mad scramble to sign a class between April 9, 2007 and May 19,2008? Either way that is 6 players who are not on this team contributing. Its Heath's fault for that senior laden class that lead to this huge turnover and possible trouble with the RPI.

[dhornjr1]

they will be saying just wait for the next year.and on and on.

Well, according to Walt Williams, Arkansas fans should indefinitely be wearing "Wait 'til Next Year" t-shirts.

[nextlevel]

And even with Fortson. this team is still just 7 and 6. next year, they will be saying just wait for the next year.and on and on.

It is all about the 2008, 2009 2010, 2011, 2012 recruiting classes, lack of patience of the fans. Its just as much their fault as Heath's for Pel's failures.

[The Hogfather]

So I guess it is also just him honoring Heath's scholarship offers to Montrell McDonald, Jason Henry, Andre Clarke, and Brandon Moore? Or was it that mad scramble to sign a class between April 9, 2007 and May 19,2008? Either way that is 6 players who are not on this team contributing. Its Heath's fault for that senior laden class that lead to this huge turnover and possible trouble with the RPI.

Did I say anything about those recruits?  He took some chances and missed because he had to replace 9 players in one recruiting class.  I've already addressed that.  Most coaches in his position would've done the same thing.

[Eddie Goodson]

Heath sealed his fate by wasting a whole season recruiting Al Jefferson. That was the straw that broke his back.

Pelphrey is a victim of his inability to properly assess recruits. 18 year olds who are bad students and have questionable character will cost a coach his job everytime.

[nextlevel]

Pelphrey is a victim of his inability to properly assess recruits. 18 year olds who are bad students and have questionable character will cost a coach his job everytime.

Or you can just suspend them and have a "new season" to be judged upon once they've completed their suspension.

[forrest city joe]

Fire Roy Williams!  Ok, I have to stop before I get a 3 day ban again.

Fire Roy for what? winning 2 NC in 5 years. when your boy Pel does that, i wont want him fired. but we both know that will never happen.NO SEC or NCAA championships with Pel.PERIOD!

[nextlevel]

Fire Roy for what? winning 2 NC in 5 years. when your boy Pel does that, i wont want him fired. but we both know that will never happen.NO SEC or NCAA championships with Pel.PERIOD!

But a few here would lobby to have the court named after him for a NIT championship. That was a prestigious tournament back in the day.

ETA: SEC-W championships not count? They put banners up in the rafters of BWA for this, no?

[forrest city joe]

But a few here would lobby to have the court named after him for a NIT championship. That was a prestigious tournament back in the day.

ETA: SEC-W championships not count? They put banners up in the rafters of BWA for this, no?

All some care about on here is the well being of Pel.to hell with winning championships. give him 10 years.

[nextlevel]

All some care about on here is the well being of Pel.to hell with winning championships. give him 10 years.

Why so impatient?

I am glad to see him land on his feet, it wasn't easy growing up being Andy Taylor's boy in that small town.

[Mark Lericos]

Fire Roy for what? winning 2 NC in 5 years.

   Bingo.  Would you mind suffering a down year while your talented class learns how to win together? Next season they likely will be back in the top 10. Where Roy has made a LIVING.

 

[The Hogfather]

Fire Roy for what? winning 2 NC in 5 years. when your boy Pel does that, i wont want him fired.

Is that all he has to do?  Should be simple...

[rude1]

All some care about on here is the well being of Pel.to hell with winning championships. give him 10 years.

Exactly Joe. It has gotten to the point it is no longer about winning at a high level, it is about them wanting to be right about Pelphrey, and they are willing to wait 20 years if need be to be proven right.

[The Hogfather]

Exactly Joe. It has gotten to the point it is no longer about winning at a high level, it is about them wanting to be right about Pelphrey, and they are willing to wait 20 years if need be to be proven right.

This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[Porkys Revenge]

Exactly Joe. It has gotten to the point it is no longer about winning at a high level, it is about them wanting to be right about Pelphrey, and they are willing to wait 20 years if need be to be proven right.

They'd rather win the SEC West 3 years in a row than go to the NCAAt... Then they'd say we'd never done that before.

[Porkys Revenge]

This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Dumber than fire Roy Williams?

[The Hogfather]

Dumber than fire Roy Williams?

Yes, even more ludicrous than fire Roy Williams.

[Porkys Revenge]

Yes, even more ludicrous than fire Roy Williams.

[rude1]

This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Please, you guys have been nothing more than one excuse after another. If we get no post season play, you will say wait till next year with his so called outstanding recruiting class. When that doesn't work, you will say, "Wait till he lands those Ar. kids, we can't fire him now." You would continue to make posts like that for 20 years if need be to support Pelphrey.

[The Hogfather]

Please, you guys have been nothing more than one excuse after another. If we get no post season play, you will say wait till next year with his so called outstanding recruiting class. When that doesn't work, you will say, "Wait till he lands those Ar. kids, we can't fire him now." You would continue to make posts like that for 20 years if need be to support Pelphrey.

I've said all along that Pelphrey should get 5 years from when he started the rebuild of our program (last year).  In my mind, he's in his 2nd year.  So, yes, until we get to that point, I don't want to fire him.  If at that point he doesn't have us where we expect to be, then I will be all for going in another direction.

That said, I expect improvement each year.  NIT this year (due to suspensions, injuries, etc).  NCAAT next year.  A run in the NCAAT the next year.  And, from then on, I don't want to have less than 20 wins each year.  20 wins should be a bad year.

It is that simple.

As I said, that comment was the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[Triple T]

Yes, even more ludicrous than fire Roy Williams.

Both were extremely stupid.

Huggers want the team to win, but it has become increasingly apparent that they're just as quick to gloat to the other side after a win as the darksiders are after a loss.. (Yes, you too Hogfather, and no, I'm not going to go through all of your posts to find evidence, I've seen them before and that's as far as I'm going to go with that).

But Hogfather, comparing Roy Williams situation to Pelphreys is just plain down retarded. I mean how ludicrous of an argument are you trying to make? This is going to be Roy Williams worst season as a head coach, and even with this bad season, they have two five star recruits for 2010 and two five star recruits for 2011.

[rude1]

I've said all along that Pelphrey should get 5 years from when he started the rebuild of our program (last year).  In my mind, he's in his 2nd year.  So, yes, until we get to that point, I don't want to fire him.  If at that point he doesn't have us where we expect to be, then I will be all for going in another direction.

That said, I expect improvement each year.  NIT this year (due to suspensions, injuries, etc).  NCAAT next year.  A run in the NCAAT the next year.  And, from then on, I don't want to have less than 20 wins each year.  20 wins should be a bad year.

It is that simple.

As I said, that comment was the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

So you are saying give the guy six years? Amazing!!!! According to your own expectations, NIT this year. You do realize there is a chance he doesn't even get to that? He has to finish 2-2 minimum to secure a possible NIT bid. Anything less and he probably has to win 2 games in the SEC tourney. What if he doesn't?

[The Hogfather]

But Hogfather, comparing Roy Williams situation to Pelphreys is just plain down retarded.

Not at all, but I'm not going to get into that again.  I don't want to get another ban.

[Porkys Revenge]

Nutt had the golden handcuffs. Pelphrey just has our hands duct taped behind our backs.

[The Hogfather]

So you are saying give the guy six years? Amazing!!!! According to your own expectations, NIT this year. You do realize there is a chance he doesn't even get to that? He has to finish 2-2 minimum to secure a possible NIT bid. Anything less and he probably has to win 2 games in the SEC tourney. What if he doesn't?

Yes, I understand that there is a chance that we might not make the NIT.  I think we will, but there is a decent chance that we won't because of our subpar non-conference record (you know what I think about that).  I think we've shown enough improvement this year, already, for me to be content about having Pelphrey back next year.

It is really 5 years.  You simply cannot count that first year as part of the rebuilding process, unless you want to give him all the credit for getting us our first NCAAT win in 39 decades.  I think the minimum amount of time a coach should be given is 5 years, unless there are exenuating circumstances that warrant firing a coach before that time.  I know I'm the minority in that regard, but I don't care.  I'm right.

[rude1]

Yes, I understand that there is a chance that we might not make the NIT.  I think we will, but there is a decent chance that we won't because of our subpar non-conference record (you know what I think about that).  I think we've shown enough improvement this year, already, for me to be content about having Pelphrey back next year.

It is really 5 years.  You simply cannot count that first year as part of the rebuilding process, unless you want to give him all the credit for getting us our first NCAAT win in 39 decades.  I think the minimum amount of time a coach should be given is 5 years, unless there are exenuating circumstances that warrant firing a coach before that time.  I know I'm the minority in that regard, but I don't care.  I'm right.

So now I gather you are good if he doesn't make the NIT this year because of the suspensions? Well then what about next year? Do you then lower your bar to say the NIT is good enough?

[The Hogfather]

So now I gather you are good if he doesn't make the NIT this year because of the suspensions? Well then what about next year? Do you then lower your bar to say the NIT is good enough?

No.  I expect an NCAAT bid next year.

[arkansastrack]

  What exactly were Britt, Washington, Welsh and Sanchez?  All experienced upperclassmen. Just sayin...

Do you actually look anything up before you spit out such nonsense?

2007-2008 Season

Stefan Welsh
19.3 min/game
5.3 points/game

Michael Washington
13.4 min/game
4.3 points/game

Marcus Britt
2.1 min/game
0.8 points/game

Michael Sanchez
0.0 min/game
0.0 points/game

Good call "Scoop"...just saying....

[arkansastrack]

I'll try this again...Here is what our program looked like prior to the decline which began after the 1995 Championship game.

Eddie Sutton: 1976-77 (1st NCAA tournament) through 1984-85
Record: 224-57
Winning Percentage: .797
Average Record: 25-6

Nolan Richardson:1985-86 (his hire) through 1994-95 (last Final Four)
Record: 252-82
Winning Percentage: .754
Average Record: 25-8

Nolan Richardson: 1995-96 (last Sweet Sixteen) through 2001-02 (his firing)
Record: 138-88
Winning Percentage: .611
Average Record: 20-13

Stan Heath: 2002-03 through 2006-07
Record: 82-71
Winning Percentage: .536
Average Record: 16-14

John Pelphrey: 2007-08 through Today
Record: 51-41
Winning Percentage: .554
Average Record: 17-14

Arkansas went from a 7 year run of 22-6 (.786) in the NCAA tournament to follow it up with an 8 year run of 4-5 (.444) in the NCAA tournament.

From 1989-1995
NCAA Championship Game: 1-1
Final Four: 2-1
Elite Eight: 3-1
Sweet Sixteen: 4-1
Second Round: 5-2
First Round: 7-0

From 1996-2002
Sweet Sixteen: 0-1
Second Round: 1-2
First Round: 3-2

From 2003-2009
Second Round: 0-1
First Round: 1-3

Oh and here is where Arkansas finished in conference also:

From 1989-1995
1st: 7 times

From 1996-2002 (these are all in the west):
2nd: 4 times
3rd: 1 time
4th: 1 time

Sadly the last 7 years of Nolan's career were at best mediocre and at worst downright awful when compared to the success experienced over the previous 20 years. It did not happen overnight...the combination of Nolan quitting after 1995 and the hire of his polar opposite in philosophy in Stan Heath there is no wonder we are were we are today. If Stan Heat got five years to bring in slow boring Big10 basketball players then there is no reason Pelphrey should not have at least 4 years with this basically being year 2.

[HoopS]

I can only speak for myself, but to the posters saying some just want West titles and will sit content with that and the NIT - well you aren't talking about me. 

I brought up the west this year because all we heard all off season was "2-15".   Last year, that's all that mattered.   

I expect NCAAT next year and good recruits. 

I will not support having any coach just because I like him.   This isn't tiddlywinks. 

I do, however, support giving enough time to make a truly educated decision on his potential.   I believe we've seen flashes of really good things under Pel, but make no mistake, I want a much better product and soon. 

You can hold me to it.   Save my post and call me out if I fudge on this but....

I EXPECT the NCAAT next year.   I EXPECT no less than 2 of the big 3.  And I EXPECT fewer off-the-court issues. 

I can promise you this, if this were year 5 or beyond, no way I wouldn't be calling for his head.   It is year 3, even though you would swear he's been here 2 decades by some of the posts.   

And to clarify another thing.   Nobody is saying Pel is Roy.   All anyone is saying is even with superb recruiting and great coaching, UNC sucks this year.   Only a fool would call for Roy's head.   UNC fans understand that replacing a lot of starters can be the recipe for disaster.   He'll right the ship and soon. 

I know Pel is no Roy, not even close.   But we see that even the best could really struggle when turning over a roster and that UNC roster has way more stars and lost fewer players.   It happens.

[WilsonHog]

Not at all, but I'm not going to get into that again.  I don't want to get another ban.

You didn't get a ban for that.

You got a ban because an adminor mod removed the thread and you thought it would be cute to challenge them.

That is a fight that a poster is NEVER going to win.

[Pork Twain]

Pelprey's 2nd year - .009% of previous year's scoring still on team. 

If the level of ire and vitriol was actually this high for the previous 10 years as initially stated here, there would have been more heart attacks to this point and Jump Ball would be a more pleasant experience. 

Let's run off the guy that agreed to come try and fix things right when he's about to put a good core of players together. 

You cannot ignore all of the players that Pel has recruited that are not with us anymore.

[The Hogfather]

Do you actually look anything up before you spit out such nonsense?

2007-2008 Season

Stefan Welsh
19.3 min/game
5.3 points/game

Michael Washington
13.4 min/game
4.3 points/game

Marcus Britt
2.1 min/game
0.8 points/game

Michael Sanchez
0.0 min/game
0.0 points/game

Good call "Scoop"...just saying....

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY 10.4 points/game!

[Mark Lericos]

Do you actually look anything up before you spit out such nonsense?

2007-2008 Season

Stefan Welsh
19.3 min/game
5.3 points/game

Michael Washington
13.4 min/game
4.3 points/game

Marcus Britt
2.1 min/game
0.8 points/game

Michael Sanchez
0.0 min/game
0.0 points/game

Good call "Scoop"...just saying....

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY 10.4 points/game!

Yes, I see two upperclassmen that averaged plenty of minutes, were experienced in the system, and apparently couldn't help provide any leadership once Monk left.

  All those players listed were in Pelphrey's system... and the struggles they had last season can be traced to the same troubles they have THIS season.

  Let's see if those UNC players undergo the same problems next year with Roy.

[The Hogfather]

Yes, I see two upperclassmen that averaged plenty of minutes, were experienced in the system, and apparently couldn't help provide any leadership once Monk left.

  All those players listed were in Pelphrey's system... and the struggles they had last season can be traced to the same troubles they have THIS season.

  Let's see if those UNC players undergo the same problems next year with Roy.

Ok, bro, here's what UNC had coming back this year from last year's team:

Deon Thompson:  24.8 min, 10.6 ponits (more than all of our returnees combined), 5.7 rebounds
Ed Davis:  18.8 minutes, 6.7 points, 6.6 rebounds
Will Graves:  11.2 minutes, 4.0 points, 2.6 rebounds
Larry Drew:  9.6 minutes, 1.4 points, 1.1 rebounds
Zeller:  7.8 minutes, 3.1 points, 2.0 rebounds
Ginyard:  12.3 minutes, 1.3 points, 2.7 rebounds
Watts:  3.1 minutes, 0.7 points, 0.7 rebounds
Campbell:  1.9 minutes, 0.2 points, 0.3 rebounds

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/stats?teamId=153&year=2009