Anyone wanna see more of this in our offense next year?

[iCalledThatHogBrotha!]

We didn't throw the wheel route much either this past two year and that was common under CBP.

Yeah, that's a play I would like to see make its way into the rotation.

[IBleedRazorbackRed]

You don't have to be an OL coach to see that Skipper doesn't have good footwork.

Skipper was also playing on a hurt foot all year.

[twistitup]

Sec defenses will eat that Shiite up if our execution is not perfect

[mizzouman]

Skipper was also playing on a hurt foot all year.

Looked the same last year. 

[pondwater jack]

You don't have to be an OL coach to see that Skipper doesn't have good footwork.

This isn't rocket science.  They can EASILY improve footwork by taking ballet or tap.  Or maybe jazz if they aren't into the other to.  Laugh if you want but Emmit Smith did it. 

Was he good?  alright then!

J. Holly Blasingame,II

[PonderinHog]

This isn't rocket science.  They can EASILY improve footwork by taking ballet or tap.  Or maybe jazz if they aren't into the other to.  Laugh if you want but Emmit Smith did it. 

Was he good?  alright then!

J. Holly Blasingame,II

And by all means, let Skipper lead and don't say anything if he steps on your toes!

[pondwater jack]

And by all means, let Skipper lead and don't say anything if he steps on your toes!

Seriously though.  There criticim of his footwork has validity.  There is limits to how much time he can spend with coaches and in practice. This is where you have to think outside the box.  Is there anything that prevents a young man from taking a class in tapdancing at the U of A or elsewhere for recreation?  Is anyone on here dumb enought to think that the same stuff that Emmit Smith did to make himself better at Dallas wouldn't help our big linemen.  There are a variety of ways this could be done. 

Me?  I'd designate a GA to coach them competiively in Tap or Ballett competitions.  YOU ARE DEALING WITH ATHLETES.  They love to compete.  If they are making ham sandwiches they are probly competing to do so.  So get them in a Jazz competition or some recitals where their competivie juices get to flowing.

There is no limit to this sort of alternative training if one has the dicipline to do it.  You can't tell Dan Skipper and Tretola that they cain't participate in ballet.  Or the whole 1st and second string lines.  You can limit practice but there is no limit to ballet!  Or tap. or Jazz.  Even Jazzercise.  Every man can get his can full. 

Probalby openings in classes RIGHT now on campus. 

I predict that soon these kinds of plays would be commonplace.  But yes Chaney was right.  We couldn't pull that off at this time in conference play

J. Holly

[Pork Twain]

No.  Actually we couldn't.  Our linemen are built for straight ahead,  smash mouth blocking.  We aren't athletic upfront.   We need to change that quickly.
That isn't a Chaney thing neither. That's a CBB thing.  Part of his BIG 10 ball insane philosophy.

I would not hold my breath for this to change.  It is kinda what our team is built around

[Pork Twain]

I do not care for this play myself.  I would prefer screens that do not involve our qb taking a 20 step drop and play-action passes, mixed in with a healthy dose of crossing routes and TE designed plays.

[pondwater jack]

Why not develop our linemen to do BOTH?

[twistitup]

I do not care for this play myself.  I would prefer screens that do not involve our qb taking a 20 step drop and play-action passes, missed in with a healthy dose of crossing routes and TE designed plays.

20 is risky I prefer the 17 step drop

[HogFoo]

Nifty little 40-yard on that. HB screen from a 2-TE I-formation. Beautiful. Only one lineman actually has to run that far.

I would have loved to have seen some screens like that. chaney supposedly thought we didn't have the players to be able to run it. I think he was full of crap. I think it would have been highly successful and I think it will be a great play for us next season. I look forward to it. 

[PorkRinds]

I would have loved to have seen some screens like that. chaney supposedly thought we didn't have the players to be able to run it. I think he was full of crap. I think it would have been highly successful and I think it will be a great play for us next season. I look forward to it.

So let me get this straight.  You think Chaney lied about not being able to pull off a screen play because why exactly?  HE just hates screens?  And CBB let Chaney lie about why he wasn't running a screen, why exactly?  Because CBB didn't know any better?  I am having trouble following this thought process.  And I'm pretty sure Pittman agreed with Chaney about screens at least once in an interview. He lying too?

[urkillnmesmalls]

I do not care for this play myself.  I would prefer screens that do not involve our qb taking a 20 step drop and play-action passes, missed in with a healthy dose of crossing routes and TE designed plays.

I'm with you.  To me...that big roll out and motion will either be a big hit, or a complete whiff if it's sniffed out by anyone.  I like the idea of some of those Bama type of RB screens, because they develop much more quickly.  It's more of a jail-break through the line, and then..."Uh, oh," and by then it's too late and there goes Ingram, Lacy, or Yeldon with a convoy in front.  I can't count how many times we've been burned by those over the years for big gains.  What I also hate is using Bama as an example.  Man...I hope we beat those suckers in the coming years!   

   

[gawntrail]

So let me get this straight.  You think Chaney lied about not being able to pull off a screen play because why exactly?  HE just hates screens?  And CBB let Chaney lie about why he wasn't running a screen, why exactly?  Because CBB didn't know any better?  I am having trouble following this thought process.  And I'm pretty sure Pittman agreed with Chaney about screens at least once in an interview. He lying too?

No.  Didn't lie.  Made excuses.

I don't think he understands screens as an extension of the run game.  If he did, he would have had a few installed off the play action stuff.  OL is asked to be mobile and athletic in the run game.  Its usually an OL block on a LB or Safety that springs a big run.  OL will run.  You just have to teach them.  Also those 3 TE sets.  Nobody can tell me our TEs couldn't operate in space and get out there.  The lack of install and the excuse making leads me to believe he is deficient in this area.

I think CBB understood the problem early on and made an executive decision to not bus drive Chaney.  Chaney landed softly and we have a new OC.  We can take from the OC problems and change whatever we wish.  But, it was obvious to anybody that we had a major problem on the offensive side of the ball.

Pittman backed the play of those above him.  CBB probably had a talk with the staff about a unified message.

So, no conspiracy.  Just messaging.

[pondwater jack]

Where is it written that a lineman can't be mimble on his feet? 

Ever hear of Travis Swanson?

They can be taught to do both.

[Youngsta71701]

I honestly think our big men are athletic enough to run screens. Just have to give them a chance. How do you know if they will work or not if you don't try them

[wildturkey8]

Nifty little 40-yard on that. HB screen from a 2-TE I-formation. Beautiful. Only one lineman actually has to run that far.

Love it.

[gawntrail]

I'm with you.  To me...that big roll out and motion will either be a big hit, or a complete whiff if it's sniffed out by anyone.  I like the idea of some of those Bama type of RB screens, because they develop much more quickly.  It's more of a jail-break through the line, and then..."Uh, oh," and by then it's too late and there goes Ingram, Lacy, or Yeldon with a convoy in front.  I can't count how many times we've been burned by those over the years for big gains.  What I also hate is using Bama as an example.  Man...I hope we beat those suckers in the coming years!   

   

He was 7-8 deep when he let's go of the ball.  Typical roll out depth.  Also, same depth as 5 step release or 7 step hitch and release.  FB in the flat probably set that up earlier.  Its basically Waggle....Wing-T 101.  Everybody runs some form of Waggle.  This is a backside screen meant to beat man and run blitz and/or sellout run fits.  EXACTLY what we are in dire need of.

Collins is a big boy, but not really a bruiser.  But, JWill.... WOO PIG!!  Every DC is looking at this cut up and imaging JWill in space against their nickel/dime corner or FS to stop him.  This is a good thing for us.  Very good.  The key to stopping us is to shut us down at the POA...before we get going.  Plays like this cannot be defended in that manner.  Also chews up practice and planning time.  Also forces DBs to question there moxxy.  So, this is really good stuff.

[pondwater jack]

I don't remember him at running back.  Did he line up there?  I remember the play but he lined up diffeently right?

[bighogonthewall]

I would just like to see BA hit our rb's as check downs when no one else is open. Seems if his first option isn't there, it's to the stands

^^^ THIS ^^^ Can't scream it loud enough! ^^ THIS!!^^

[PorkRinds]

No.  Didn't lie.  Made excuses.

I don't think he understands screens as an extension of the run game.  If he did, he would have had a few installed off the play action stuff.  OL is asked to be mobile and athletic in the run game.  Its usually an OL block on a LB or Safety that springs a big run.  OL will run.  You just have to teach them.  Also those 3 TE sets.  Nobody can tell me our TEs couldn't operate in space and get out there.  The lack of install and the excuse making leads me to believe he is deficient in this area.

I think CBB understood the problem early on and made an executive decision to not bus drive Chaney.  Chaney landed softly and we have a new OC.  We can take from the OC problems and change whatever we wish.  But, it was obvious to anybody that we had a major problem on the offensive side of the ball.

Pittman backed the play of those above him.  CBB probably had a talk with the staff about a unified message.

So, no conspiracy.  Just messaging.

I can almost assure you that Chaney understands screens and how they are used more than either of us.  We either have to take him at his word when he says why we didn't use them, or we think he lied. 

[GuvHog]

No.  Actually we couldn't.  Our linemen are built for straight ahead,  smash mouth blocking.  We aren't athletic upfront.   We need to change that quickly.
That isn't a Chaney thing neither. That's a CBB thing.  Part of his BIG 10 ball insane philosophy.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Expecting OLinemen weighing over 325 LBS to pull for a screen is courting disaster. If the Hogs are going to add screens to their offense, they'll have to get those linemen down to at or just barely above 300 LBS but I don't see CBB letting Enos do that.

[Piggfoot]

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Expecting OLinemen weighing over 325 LBS to pull for a screen is courting disaster. If the Hogs are going to add screens to their offense, they'll have to get those linemen down to at or just barely above 300 LBS but I don't see CBB letting Enos do that.

Once again hog takes things out of context to support their argument.
On THIS play there is no pulling. The screen is set up by the tight end and left tackle. The left Tackle only goes down field for 5 yards.

[GuvHog]

Once again hog takes things out of context to support their argument.
On THIS play there is no pulling. The screen is set up by the tight end and left tackle. The left Tackle only goes down field for 5 yards.

I'm not taking anything out of Context. Check the weights of the CMU lineman and get back to me. Expecting a 325 pound tackle to go down field like that is courting disaster.

[Piggfoot]

I'm not taking anything out of Context. Check the weights of the CMU lineman and get back to me. Expecting a 325 pound tackle to go down field like that is courting disaster.

Look at the play. You act like a 325 Tackle can't not run. It doesn't take too much effort for a tackle to run 5 yards. " Courting disaster" is being a bit dramatic. Travis Swanson a center is 6'5" and weighs 317. He did pretty good pulling.

[Obi-Hawg Kenobi]

I would not hold my breath for this to change.  It is kinda what our team is built around

Yea!  I'm already DEPRESSED about it, brother!  lol

[Obi-Hawg Kenobi]

Only one lineman is blocking downfield on this play. And his only job really is to bump the linebacker if he reads it quickly. Other than that the design of the play basically blocks it for you. The bootleg action makes the linebackers roll and look that direction and then you're left with a running back in space

I saw that.  My post was directed more in a general sense where I'm saying that not just this play in particular, but more screen plays down the line.  We have got to be able to run and execute more screen plays.  And even in our running game.  In our non conference games we were able to avg, 300+ypg rushing.  Then in conference that number dwindled down by almost half.  That tells me that 1.) we were unable to have an effective DOWNFIELD passing game.  Not for 300+ yds, but enough to keep that 9th and 10th defender from coming down into the box to help stuff the run.  2.) our Offensive Line was unable to get to and dominate the 2nd level of the defense.  Our initial push on straight ahead running plays didn't cut it in conference.  So to try and equalize that, you start running misdirection plays.  Thats where the problem rears is ugly head again.  In order to run those misdirection plays (i.e. counters, traps...), we gotta have those athletic linemen to be able to pull and get downfield.  We didn't have that luxury. 

The big guys up front need to come down 10-15lbs and I think we see better results.  CBB has also got to let Enos develop a down field game.  And not just to the TE's.   

[gawntrail]

I can almost assure you that Chaney understands screens and how they are used more than either of us.  We either have to take him at his word when he says why we didn't use them, or we think he lied.

Defenses loaded the box and played man or man free all year.  That is ready made for screens or the option game.  I understand we are not an option team.  So, that leaves the screen game to gash man coverage.  There is a way to run multiple screen without having the OL run the mythical too far. 

First off its complete BS that big OL cannot play in space.  You do have to teach them first. 

Secondly, you can still utilize a lot of the screen game without the OL.  Those bunch formations were not utililized to break the box or to make the defense at least read before crashing run fits.  That part of formationing is tailor made for bouncing a screen or a quick hit to the RB out behind it. 

It was painful watching us run for no gain into 9-10 man piles and hearing we got no push.  Then rolling out and firing the rock into the stands and hearing that was a good decision protecting the ball and flip the field for the defense.

It is the OCs job to know our strengths and weaknesses and build a game plan every single week that utilizes what we have to put enough points on the board so we are not relying on ST or the D to score or make a stop to give us the chance to win.

[PorkRinds]

Defenses loaded the box and played man or man free all year.  That is ready made for screens or the option game.  I understand we are not an option team.  So, that leaves the screen game to gash man coverage.  There is a way to run multiple screen without having the OL run the mythical too far. 

First off its complete BS that big OL cannot play in space.  You do have to teach them first. 

Secondly, you can still utilize a lot of the screen game without the OL.  Those bunch formations were not utililized to break the box or to make the defense at least read before crashing run fits.  That part of formationing is tailor made for bouncing a screen or a quick hit to the RB out behind it. 

It was painful watching us run for no gain into 9-10 man piles and hearing we got no push.  Then rolling out and firing the rock into the stands and hearing that was a good decision protecting the ball and flip the field for the defense.

It is the OCs job to know our strengths and weaknesses and build a game plan every single week that utilizes what we have to put enough points on the board so we are not relying on ST or the D to score or make a stop to give us the chance to win.

I get it.  You know more about running our offense, and the personnel's capability than Chaney and Pittman. Go get em coach...

[Pork Twain]

I am fine with plays like this every once in a while, but slow developing plays usually get snuffed out if run too much in the SEC.

[DeltaBoy]

This isn't rocket science.  They can EASILY improve footwork by taking ballet or tap.  Or maybe jazz if they aren't into the other to.  Laugh if you want but Emmit Smith did it. 

Was he good?  alright then!

J. Holly Blasingame,II

So did EARL CAMPBELL!

[gawntrail]

I get it.  You know more about running our offense, and the personnel's capability than Chaney and Pittman. Go get em coach...

I didn't claim anything.  I point out what I see.  And, just because someone is not on a D1 staff doesn't mean they don't know what they are looking at.  Many here point out very valid observations and I doubt they are on a D1 staff.  Doesn't make their observations less valid.

[urkillnmesmalls]

He was 7-8 deep when he let's go of the ball.  Typical roll out depth.  Also, same depth as 5 step release or 7 step hitch and release.  FB in the flat probably set that up earlier.  Its basically Waggle....Wing-T 101.  Everybody runs some form of Waggle.  This is a backside screen meant to beat man and run blitz and/or sellout run fits.  EXACTLY what we are in dire need of.

Collins is a big boy, but not really a bruiser.  But, JWill.... WOO PIG!!  Every DC is looking at this cut up and imaging JWill in space against their nickel/dime corner or FS to stop him.  This is a good thing for us.  Very good.  The key to stopping us is to shut us down at the POA...before we get going.  Plays like this cannot be defended in that manner.  Also chews up practice and planning time.  Also forces DBs to question there moxxy.  So, this is really good stuff.

It's still slow developing, and that usually means there's plenty of reaction time IF the defense picks up on it.  It wouldn't work more than twice a game...max.  It's not going to save our season or anything.  I'm all for some screen passes, and I hope we add some, but not sure they need to be that dramatic and slow developing.  Just a simple drop and hitting the back with blockers in front will work fine too.   

Also...I thought AC did a great job of finishing runs in the last few games.  Especially in the Cotton Bowl.  I'd even go so far as to say he actually ran with more authority than JWill did, which surprised me.  I think he can be more of a bruiser than you're giving him credit for.   

[Jeff "hogfanintx" Anderson]

Haaa don't run a lot of that because there are generally too many defenders looking to stop the run.  When you can legitimately throw the ball downfield and defenders are coming after the QB you can spring screens for huge plays and often.

Can also work if you are getting serious run blitz action from the D.

[gawntrail]

It's still slow developing, and that usually means there's plenty of reaction time IF the defense picks up on it.  It wouldn't work more than twice a game...max.  It's not going to save our season or anything.  I'm all for some screen passes, and I hope we add some, but not sure they need to be that dramatic and slow developing.  Just a simple drop and hitting the back with blockers in front will work fine too.   

Also...I thought AC did a great job of finishing runs in the last few games.  Especially in the Cotton Bowl.  I'd even go so far as to say he actually ran with more authority than JWill did, which surprised me.  I think he can be more of a bruiser than you're giving him credit for.   

I'd put the release on that screen between a 3 and 4 count.  That's a half to whole count longer than a typical 5 step release and right on a 7 step hitch and release. 

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I am fine with plays like this every once in a while, but slow developing plays usually get snuffed out if run too much in the SEC.

Actually, in this particular example, the screen itself wasn't slow developing from what I can see. It developed pretty well on the basis of misdirection. All motion was to the right and the QB sold it by initiating an obviously weak fake to the RB, allowing the defense to see that weak fake, then moving right and deeper on his drop while looking down the field to the right at first, and at the last moment looking back to the left and releasing the ball almost simultaneously.

It appears to me that all of the motion to the far side (right) is what helped create space between the original LOS and where the screen actually set up. That doesn't require offensive linemen to move very far at all and on that particular play, they shouldn't. On top of that, it wasn't as if they were moving half of the O-Line out to the left side, it was just one O-Lineman and a TE.

It is essentially a misdirection, throw-back, quick screen. That was well executed and a nice play and I would assume that breaking down film made the OC believe that this play would work well against this particular opponent based on the way they pursue motion to one side or the other.

We could run that with the personnel that we have today if we found an opponent that pursued the initial flow of plays similarly.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Actually, in this particular example, the screen itself wasn't slow developing from what I can see. It developed pretty well on the basis of misdirection. All motion was to the right and the QB sold it by initiating an obviously weak fake to the RB, allowing the defense to see that weak fake, then moving right and deeper on his drop while looking down the field to the right at first, and at the last moment looking back to the left and releasing the ball almost simultaneously.

It appears to me that all of the motion to the far side (right) is what helped create space between the original LOS and where the screen actually set up. That doesn't require offensive linemen to move very far at all and on that particular play, they shouldn't. On top of that, it wasn't as if they were moving half of the O-Line out to the left side, it was just one O-Lineman and a TE.

It is essentially a misdirection, throw-back, quick screen. That was well executed and a nice play and I would assume that breaking down film made the OC believe that this play would work well against this particular opponent based on the way they pursue motion to one side or the other.

We could run that with the personnel that we have today if we found an opponent that pursued the initial flow of plays similarly.

Totally agree.  If we're having success running it off tackle to the right, then it stands to reason that a screen to the left like the one in the video should work.  But it won't work more than once or twice a game, and yet people are acting like it's going to be the difference between being an effective versus ineffective offense. 

Plays that are designed to hit a back sneaking out after a quick chip block, or ways to just give BA an outlet rather than Billy in the 1st row would be more beneficial in the long run IMO.  That's what I would like to see us be better at....safety valves that at least give something for the defense to have to be aware of, and get us 4-5 yards instead of nothing. 

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Totally agree.  If we're having success running it off tackle to the right, then it stands to reason that a screen to the left like the one in the video should work.  But it won't work more than once or twice a game, and yet people are acting like it's going to be the difference between being an effective versus ineffective offense. 

Plays that are designed to hit a back sneaking out after a quick chip block, or ways to just give BA an outlet rather than Billy in the 1st row would be more beneficial in the long run IMO.  That's what I would like to see us be better at....safety valves that at least give something for the defense to have to be aware of, and get us 4-5 yards instead of nothing. 

It is one play that is set up by a series of other plays. You probably wouldn't run that play more than once or twice in a game anyway. But, it could be a play that produces a large gain if it is set up and executed properly.

[Pork Twain]

The play is still slow developing and you end up with a QB throwing across his body, off balance, across the field, behind the LOS.  I am just not a big fan of using it very often.

[Pig In The City]

Chaney would say that we wouldn't be able to do that

Never Yield and never say you can't do something...into a microphone.

[Pig In The City]

The play is still slow developing and you end up with a QB throwing across his body, off balance, across the field, behind the LOS.  I am just not a big fan of using it very often.

This play assumes your TEs can block.  Our starting TE is not known for his blocking ability being his strength.  Has to be a quick release.  Most TEs can't hold a block that long.  Just saying.

[urkillnmesmalls]

It is one play that is set up by a series of other plays. You probably wouldn't run that play more than once or twice in a game anyway. But, it could be a play that produces a large gain if it is set up and executed properly.

I totally agree.  If teams are over pursuing and playing with anticipation, it's an excellent way to hit a big play, or to at least give them something to respect.  I hope it pans out to be a good addition to the playbook and we execute it well.  I am a firm believe that our offense is pretty good, but it can be much better with a little more variety with the play calling. 

The one play I would like to see abandoned is the roll out to the right by BA.  That just limits him to half the field, and we typically have no more than 2 out in the pattern.  We simply haven't had the WR's with the speed to get separation on a simple out route like that.  Too predictable.  He's either got to establish that he's a genuine threat to run on those plays, and have a back that can either force the LB to cover him or commit to BA,  leaving the RB open, or that play needs to go bye bye.     

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

Not even the three greatest country and western singers of our time could make Chris Christopherson sound worth a s^&*.

When I was a kid I used to wonder how a guy with so much music in his soul had such a colon throat...