How much can we close the gap in recruiting between us and elite with great program management.

[luke hawg]

1. Low attrition
2. Player development
3. Walk on program
4. Redshirt program
5. Avg recruiting ranking of  15-25.

I was looking at an earlier post from a hogville member that correlated program success to recruiting rankings. The programs recruiting success was calculated then given a star value of 1-5 much like recruits. The overall correlation between recruiting success and wins was very strong. Arkansas was ranked as a 4 star program in regards to recruiting. The most successful program given their recruiting value was Kansas state. Who was a 2 star recruiting program. I believe Bielema is the Bill Snyder of his generation. We have natural recruiting advantages over other programs following the same template. I think it is very possible we have just enough inherent recruiting advantages with proper program management to negate the advantages of the elite.

[bigdaddyhawg]

Recruiting rankings are way over-rated by fans.

We should have beaten TAMU and Bama this year, which recruiting rankings over the last several years would tell you is not possible.

We did beat both LSU and OM, and their recruiting rankings have been WAY better than ours.

Same for Texas.

Way too many other factors involved to revolve everything around recruiting rankings.

[Hook 'em Hogs]

I think it's been said differently, but we have just as good of a chance to have a running start towards a NC. When we have teams that are heavier in the upper-classmen end, and have a few breaks go our way, we could be right there. The next several years after a season like that could be rebuild city though.

[CDBHawg]

1. Low attrition
2. Player development
3. Walk on program
4. Redshirt program
5. Avg recruiting ranking of  15-25.

I was looking at an earlier post from a hogville member that correlated program success to recruiting rankings. The programs recruiting success was calculated then given a star value of 1-5 much like recruits. The overall correlation between recruiting success and wins was very strong. Arkansas was ranked as a 4 star program in regards to recruiting. The most successful program given their recruiting value was Kansas state. Who was a 2 star recruiting program. I believe Bielema is the Bill Snyder of his generation. We have natural recruiting advantages over other programs following the same template. I think it is very possible we have just enough inherent recruiting advantages with proper program management to negate the advantages of the elite.

I would say all except low attrition. Well, depends on how one interprets low attrition. With only 85 to assign and the ability to sign 25 very year means you have to have 15-40 leave over a 4-5 period if you sign full classes and redshirt.


So, 3-6 per year isn't a bad number concerning attrition if you have high redshirt numbers. Of course, signing less than 25 would lower that number.

[redeye]

1. Low attrition
2. Player development
3. Walk on program
4. Redshirt program
5. Avg recruiting ranking of  15-25.

I was looking at an earlier post from a hogville member that correlated program success to recruiting rankings. The programs recruiting success was calculated then given a star value of 1-5 much like recruits. The overall correlation between recruiting success and wins was very strong. Arkansas was ranked as a 4 star program in regards to recruiting. The most successful program given their recruiting value was Kansas state. Who was a 2 star recruiting program. I believe Bielema is the Bill Snyder of his generation. We have natural recruiting advantages over other programs following the same template. I think it is very possible we have just enough inherent recruiting advantages with proper program management to negate the advantages of the elite.

I think all of that is true.  Just look at what Bielema accomplished at Wisconsin with much lower rated classes then he's signing here.  What MSU accomplished this year is another example and MSU usually doesn't recruit as well as we do, either.

On that note, people can note correlations between recruiting rankings and on-field success all day, but I think it would be naive to think that recruiting rankings aren't influenced by on-field success.  I've seen personnel at some services mention it was true and you can see the effects in Oregon's class every year.

Even if it's not intentional, the methodology most services use today favors teams with on-field success, since it's setup to value top-heavy classes and successful teams on the field tend to sign more better players.  So a team can sign a few of the highest rated recruits and fill out the rest of their class with lowly rated players, but still finish higher then a team that has no lowly rated players.

Btw, what's up with all the recruiting threads in MMQB lately?  Why not post them in the recruiting section, where they belong?

[DeltaBoy]

Look at K-State  Under the Old Man they win even with less than stellar talent.  Brent was on staff with Bill Snyder and knows how to truly do more with less.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

Recruiting rankings are way over-rated by fans.

We should have beaten TAMU and Bama this year, which recruiting rankings over the last several years would tell you is not possible.

We did beat both LSU and OM, and their recruiting rankings have been WAY better than ours.

Same for Texas.

Way too many other factors involved to revolve everything around recruiting rankings.

This.... Stars are for fans to brag about until game time...

[Oliver]

Recruiting rankings are way over-rated by fans.

We should have beaten TAMU and Bama this year, which recruiting rankings over the last several years would tell you is not possible.

We did beat both LSU and OM, and their recruiting rankings have been WAY better than ours.

Same for Texas.

Way too many other factors involved to revolve everything around recruiting rankings.

True.  But you can't argue with National Championships and recruiting rankings

[HSVhogfan2]

Recruiting rankings are way over-rated by fans.

We should have beaten TAMU and Bama this year, which recruiting rankings over the last several years would tell you is not possible.

We did beat both LSU and OM, and their recruiting rankings have been WAY better than ours.

Same for Texas.

Way too many other factors involved to revolve everything around recruiting rankings.

So, I'm trying to figure out why the Alabamas, OSUs, FSUs of the world always win championships?

[Torqued pork]

So, I'm trying to figure out why the Alabamas, OSUs, FSUs of the world always win championships?

They have better players.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I think all of that is true.  Just look at what Bielema accomplished at Wisconsin with much lower rated classes then he's signing here.  What MSU accomplished this year is another example and MSU usually doesn't recruit as well as we do, either.

On that note, people can note correlations between recruiting rankings and on-field success all day, but I think it would be naive to think that recruiting rankings aren't influenced by on-field success.  I've seen personnel at some services mention it was true and you can see the effects in Oregon's class every year.

Let's talk about that for a moment. I'm not taking a side either way here, just providing data. You can draw your own conclusions, although I'm not sure that there is any singular conclusion that can be termed as a "rule".

All of this data is derived from a few things. These teams averaged won-loss records from 2007-2014, their actual NFL Draftees (not including undrafted F.A. signees) from the same years and their averaged recruiting rankings from Rivals for the years 2005-2013, leading up to the 2007-2014 seasons.

Look at LSU. Over those draft years they had more players drafted than anyone else with 53 for an average of 6.6 per year. During that time they averaged a 10-3 record each season. Their Rivals averaged recruiting rank over the time from 2005-2013 was #9.1. From 2007-2014 they led (or tied) for the most QB's, RB's, WR's, DE's, DT's and DB's drafted. And they had 2 SEC Championships and 1 National Championship.

USC had 51 players drafted for an average of 6.4 per year and averaged a 10-3 record. Their recruiting ranking from 2005-2013 averaged # 4.7. During this time USC won or tied for the Pac 10 championship twice and found themselves left out of a conference championship and were ineligible for post season play due to NCAA sanctions. They tied with LSU and Texas A&M for producing the most drafted QB's during that time (3) and tied with Wisconsin for having produced the largest number of drafted Centers, with 3.

Alabama had 44 players drafted averaging 5.5 per year, produced more drafted OT's than anyone else with 5 total, had an average win record of 11-2 and had an average recruiting rank of # 5.4. During this time they won 3 SEC championships and won 3 NC's.

Georgia had 41 players drafted averaging 5.1 per year, produced the same number of drafted DE's as LSU (6), had an average win record of 9-4 and had an average recruiting rank of # 8.9. Georgia had 2 SECCG appearances (2011 & 2012) losing both.

Oregon had 29 players drafted averaging 3.6 per year, had an average win record of 11-2 and had an average recruiting rank of # 22.2. Oregon won the Pac10/12 Championship 4 times and made 2 NCG appearances, losing to Auburn and Ohio State.

I could go on, but is it safe to say that the success of a team isn't found in any one particular area, but in a combination of a lot of factors...excellent recruiting, player development, good in-game coaching and game planning and strength of schedule? And a little bit of luck never hurts.

[HOGINTENNESSEE]

Ben Herbert

[DeltaBoy]

Look at the chart I posted on More Longhorn pain!  Since 2010 Texas has had top 10 classes yet only won 2 more games than Texas Tech during that time period.

[ComeonHogs!!!]

Didn't a rule get passed that guarantees 4 years to the recruit?  That will change everything.

[12247]

I think the reason Kansas State hasn't won an NC is because of who they recruited, not because of coaching.  However, it is likely that Coach Snyder could not coach 5 stars like he can 2 and 3 stars.  5 stars aren't likely to listen and play the ME free game that Snyder insists on. 

[Pigsknuckles]

When we begin consistently putting players in the early NFL draft rounds, the gap will close. Unfortunately, that means winning with lesser paper talent than our elite brethren, at least until we are discovered by more recruits with those meaningless stars.

[The NewEra]

Luke, I'm convinced we are witnessing the evolution to a new model of recruiting at Arkansas.  It may well be the model other teams will use down the road.  What I'm witnessing in particular is our most recent hire at the OC position.  Starting with Coach B's first replacement hire he's focused on people who are exceptional recruiters, with exceptional people skill.  I noticed a few people on here mentioned it didn't matter if our OC was a great recruiter since most OC's don't recruit.  I suspect that will be much different here and thus the new model.  Everyone on this staff will be required to put as much energy into recruiting as the head coach does.  If they do that then we will attain what coach B has stated he intended to do and that's to outwork our completion on the recruiting trail. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see this as the new model in the SEC in particular.  Every coach has an equal responsibility to actively recruit.  I just hope we are well ahead of the competition before they catch on.

[Fayettechill14]

Point #1 is key. Who cares who you sign if they never make it to campus or transfer without ever contributing?

That's what I like about Bielema. Looks like only two casualties so far: Korliss Marshall and Myke Tavarres. Am I missing any?

[Fayettechill14]

I think the reason Kansas State hasn't won an NC is because of who they recruited, not because of coaching.  However, it is likely that Coach Snyder could not coach 5 stars like he can 2 and 3 stars.  5 stars aren't likely to listen and play the ME free game that Snyder insists on.

Also explains how Rich Rodriguez could be so successful at West Virginia and Arizona but so bad at Michigan.

Heck, Brady Hoke did a fantastic job at Ball State and San Diego State and then flopped at Michigan. I bet Hoke would do well at Central Michigan or a similar school.

[CDBHawg]

Point #1 is key. Who cares who you sign if they never make it to campus or transfer without ever contributing?

That's what I like about Bielema. Looks like only two casualties so far: Korliss Marshall and Myke Tavarres. Am I missing any?

Pruitt.

But next year there's only 14 seniors on the roster. It'll be interesting to see hiw many we sign in the 2016 class.

[Inhogswetrust]

I think the reason Kansas State hasn't won an NC is because of who they recruited, not because of coaching.  However, it is likely that Coach Snyder could not coach 5 stars like he can 2 and 3 stars.  5 stars aren't likely to listen and play the ME free game that Snyder insists on. 

He recuits a LOT of JC players.....................

[popcornhog]

Recruiting rankings are way over-rated by fans.

We should have beaten TAMU and Bama this year, which recruiting rankings over the last several years would tell you is not possible.

We did beat both LSU and OM, and their recruiting rankings have been WAY better than ours.

Same for Texas.

Way too many other factors involved to revolve everything around recruiting rankings.

Recruiting is only one factor, true. And it is often overblown.

But it is still among the most important, if not the most important factor.

[Paul]

I think the gap is narrowing due to the money the SEC is distributing to ALL members.  I think that's why OM recruiting has improved so much & why OM & Miss St made a jump in the SEC West last yr.  traditional have nots in the SEC now have the money to keep up in facilities & recruiting budgets.  Is it even?  No...but the gap is narrowing.

[Hellafied]

I remember USC and even FSU had years where they only signed 15 players but they were all good players. I'd be happy when it comes and we only have room to sign 17 or so knowing most or all of them will redshirt!!!

[Hawg_Thai'd]

Point #1 is key. Who cares who you sign if they never make it to campus or transfer without ever contributing?

That's what I like about Bielema. Looks like only two casualties so far: Korliss Marshall and Myke Tavarres. Am I missing any?

Melvinson Hartsfield?

[HOGINTENNESSEE]

Melvinson Hartsfield?

Chris Murphy as well

[GRIMMHOG]

Very little difference between 5 and 20 in the rankings

[JansterZ71]

Look at K-State  Under the Old Man they win even with less than stellar talent.  Brent was on staff with Bill Snyder and knows how to truly do more with less.

K-State maybe has winning seasons but let's not kid ourselves, they don't win anything of importance.  No hardware to show for it and they never will.

[JansterZ71]

Very little difference between 5 and 20 in the rankings

The gap is not drastic but there is a significant difference.  Can a top 5 team have major 5* & 4* busts?  Absolutely, but if they don't have many busts they will be a great team.

[jackflash]

I think what helps Kansas State most of their players stay until they seniors. Most are redshirted and when their juniors and seniors they are ready to play Snyder brand of ball

[Inhogswetrust]

I think what helps Kansas State most of their players stay until they seniors. Most are redshirted and when their juniors and seniors they are ready to play Snyder brand of ball

Sometimes yes and sometimes no.........Like I said he recruits a LOT of JC players. I counted this past season as having 24 of them.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

1. Low attrition
2. Player development
3. Walk on program
4. Redshirt program
5. Avg recruiting ranking of  15-25.

I was looking at an earlier post from a hogville member that correlated program success to recruiting rankings. The programs recruiting success was calculated then given a star value of 1-5 much like recruits. The overall correlation between recruiting success and wins was very strong. Arkansas was ranked as a 4 star program in regards to recruiting. The most successful program given their recruiting value was Kansas state. Who was a 2 star recruiting program. I believe Bielema is the Bill Snyder of his generation. We have natural recruiting advantages over other programs following the same template. I think it is very possible we have just enough inherent recruiting advantages with proper program management to negate the advantages of the elite.

Coachability, Humility, Honor and character are all attributes that have no bearing on an athletes (****) level; but they factor into a teams chemistry greatly...

[arlhog]

It will take time and a sustained winning program, but I really don't see us ever recruiting consistently with bama or texas.  We  have too many things against us that is out of our control.   We can't control the population of the state and the fact that austin and tuscaloosa are considered cooler places to 18 year old kids.   But I believe we can get better and close the gap somewhat and compete with them.

[Rison Razor Hog]

It will take time and a sustained winning program, but I really don't see us ever recruiting consistently with bama or texas.  We  have too many things against us that is out of our control.   We can't control the population of the state and the fact that austin and tuscaloosa are considered cooler places to 18 year old kids.   But I believe we can get better and close the gap somewhat and compete with them.

I know that Tuscaloosa has some appeal as a recruited destination, but that is only because Alabama has a winning tradition both recently and for the long term. Tuscaloosa, the town though, is really only on a par with Pine Bluff, Ar. It is grimy, dirty and looks like crap when you pass through there. It is closer to the beach than Pine Bluff, though.

[HF#1]

The gap is already closing, quickly.

[tusksincolorado]

Coachability, Humility, Honor and character are all attributes that have no bearing on an athletes (****) level; but they factor into a teams chemistry greatly...

I liked when the SRs were announced at the final home game this year. CBB and TF demonstrated exactly what you are speaking.

[DeltaBoy]

We will be fine.