Alabama 64 National Championship

[taylorspride]

My brother in law insists that Alabama won the 64 national championship. I even took him to the Broyles complex and showed him the trophy yet he said it was fake.

[IronHog]

NC's are a highly subjective and elusive thing.  Many are shared and open to much debate.  You starting a new thread every 60 seconds apparently is not.

[YellvilleHog]

in the last 100 years of college football, there have been 147 national championships "awarded" before the BCS every sporting magazine out there had one. That is why they were/are called Mythical National Championships. By the way, go to Alabama, they also have a 1964 MNC trophy in their case, that means nothing.

[taylorspride]

Good point. I am new too this. Will try and limit my posts.

[Lanlord]

Good point. I am new too this. Will try and limit my posts.

Read a lot and get the feel of the board first.  Welcome aboard.

[RedSatinHog]

My brother in law insists that Alabama won the 64 national championship. I even took him to the Broyles complex and showed him the trophy yet he said it was fake.

Alabama won what amounted to a split national championship in that day and time by finishing #1 at the end of the regular season.  That's how a couple of the polls chose their national champs during that timeframe.

Arkansas was named national champs by a separate poll after Bama's loss to Texas and Arkansas' win over Nebraska in the Cotton Bowl.  I believe the name of the group which named Arkansas #1 was the National Football Writers of America, but don't quote me on that much.

What happened that year was instrumental in the move to have a final polling AFTER the New Years' bowl games instead of before.  I believe that started the following season.

In short, the national championships back then were just as mythical as they are today.  Short of a national tournament, there will never be a true national championship in CFB.

[IronHog]

Good point. I am new too this. Will try and limit my posts.

I was joking but try a google search on the subject and some other research.  Alabama was awarded the AP NC before the bowls.  Texas who came in behind Ark in the SWC beat Bama and Ark won it's bowl.  The AP changed voting until after the bowls the next year.

Bama, Ark, and ND all were "NC's" that year..............Ark's 64 NC is just as legit as UCS's a couple years ago and many others.

[IronHog]

My brother in law insists that Alabama won the 64 national championship. I even took him to the Broyles complex and showed him the trophy yet he said it was fake.

Alabama won what amounted to a split national championship in that day and time by finishing #1 at the end of the regular season.  That's how a couple of the polls chose their national champs during that timeframe.

Arkansas was named national champs by a separate poll after Bama's loss to Texas and Arkansas' win over Nebraska in the Cotton Bowl.  I believe the name of the group which named Arkansas #1 was the National Football Writers of America, but don't quote me on that much.

What happened that year was instrumental in the move to have a final polling AFTER the New Years' bowl games instead of before.  I believe that started the following season.

In short, the national championships back then were just as mythical as they are today.  Short of a national tournament, there will never be a true national championship in CFB.

Ah beat me to it.  Must type faster.

[mikeirwin]

Until the BCS came along the NCAA did not award a national championship in football.
So as others have pointed out there were multiple winners in some years because several organizations awarded them.
Common sense dictates that Arkansas was the true national champion in '64. They were the only undefeated team.
They beat Texas and Texas beat Alabama. If I were an Alabama fan I would be ashamed to claim the '64 national title. It's totally bogus.
I would simply acknowledge that the two major polls awarded a title before the bowls in those days and that was wrong.

[IronHog]

Until the BCS came along the NCAA did not award a national championship in football.
So as others have pointed out there were multiple winners in some years because several organizations awarded them.
Common sense dictates that Arkansas was the true national champion in '64. They were the only undefeated team.
They beat Texas and Texas beat Alabama. If I were an Alabama fan I would be ashamed to claim the '64 national title. It's totally bogus.
I would simply acknowledge that the two major polls awarded a title before the bowls in those days and that was wrong.

Now you apparently have an NCAA and ESPN national champion.  All NC's are really bogus until some sort of organized playoff is put into place.

[YellvilleHog]

Until the BCS came along the NCAA did not award a national championship in football.
So as others have pointed out there were multiple winners in some years because several organizations awarded them.
Common sense dictates that Arkansas was the true national champion in '64. They were the only undefeated team.
They beat Texas and Texas beat Alabama. If I were an Alabama fan I would be ashamed to claim the '64 national title. It's totally bogus.
What I would acknowledge was that the two major polls awarded a title before the bowls and that was wrong.

Surely you jest.

No Alabama fan has EVER been ashamed of ANYTHING

Any Alabama fan caught acknowledging that one of their claimed titles was bogus would be tarred and feathered and then shot and then hung from the neck until dead.

[taylorspride]

Should I follow your instructions and read or should I use my own abilities and ask what question I may when I want?

[YellvilleHog]

Until the BCS came along the NCAA did not award a national championship in football.
So as others have pointed out there were multiple winners in some years because several organizations awarded them.
Common sense dictates that Arkansas was the true national champion in '64. They were the only undefeated team.
They beat Texas and Texas beat Alabama. If I were an Alabama fan I would be ashamed to claim the '64 national title. It's totally bogus.
I would simply acknowledge that the two major polls awarded a title before the bowls in those days and that was wrong.

Now you apparently have an NCAA and ESPN national champion.  All NC's are really bogus until some sort of organized playoff is put into place.

The ESPN thing is not acknowledged and the winner of the new BCS title game is in fact titled NC, there is no dispute there, now the only dispute is if a team thinks they should have been in that game but aren't. Read - notre dame , every year.

[mikeirwin]

Should I follow your instructions and read or should I use my own abilities and ask what question I may when I want?

No you can post whever you want.
He's just messing with you because you are new to the board.

[taylorspride]

Sorry Mike, my comment was intended elsewhere

[IronHog]

Until the BCS came along the NCAA did not award a national championship in football.
So as others have pointed out there were multiple winners in some years because several organizations awarded them.
Common sense dictates that Arkansas was the true national champion in '64. They were the only undefeated team.
They beat Texas and Texas beat Alabama. If I were an Alabama fan I would be ashamed to claim the '64 national title. It's totally bogus.
I would simply acknowledge that the two major polls awarded a title before the bowls in those days and that was wrong.

Now you apparently have an NCAA and ESPN national champion.  All NC's are really bogus until some sort of organized playoff is put into place.

The ESPN thing is not acknowledged and the winner of the new BCS title game is in fact titled NC, there is no dispute there, now the only dispute is if a team thinks they should have been in that game but aren't. Read - notre dame , every year.

You see plenty of people giving USC two recent NC's.  I say LSU is the only NC since the BCS conferences agreed to the system, but USC claims it like they never agreed to anything.

[mikeirwin]

Until the BCS came along the NCAA did not award a national championship in football.
So as others have pointed out there were multiple winners in some years because several organizations awarded them.
Common sense dictates that Arkansas was the true national champion in '64. They were the only undefeated team.
They beat Texas and Texas beat Alabama. If I were an Alabama fan I would be ashamed to claim the '64 national title. It's totally bogus.
I would simply acknowledge that the two major polls awarded a title before the bowls in those days and that was wrong.

Now you apparently have an NCAA and ESPN national champion.  All NC's are really bogus until some sort of organized playoff is put into place.

The ESPN thing is not acknowledged and the winner of the new BCS title game is in fact titled NC, there is no dispute there, now the only dispute is if a team thinks they should have been in that game but aren't. Read - notre dame , every year.

I agree. The NCAA recognizes the winner of the BCS title game as the official division I national champion. Of course there are those who don't recognize the NCAA's right to recognize anything.

[BigDave70]

Sorry Mike, my comment was intended elsewhere

Welcome to Hogville man

[YellvilleHog]

Until the BCS came along the NCAA did not award a national championship in football.
So as others have pointed out there were multiple winners in some years because several organizations awarded them.
Common sense dictates that Arkansas was the true national champion in '64. They were the only undefeated team.
They beat Texas and Texas beat Alabama. If I were an Alabama fan I would be ashamed to claim the '64 national title. It's totally bogus.
I would simply acknowledge that the two major polls awarded a title before the bowls in those days and that was wrong.

Now you apparently have an NCAA and ESPN national champion.  All NC's are really bogus until some sort of organized playoff is put into place.

The ESPN thing is not acknowledged and the winner of the new BCS title game is in fact titled NC, there is no dispute there, now the only dispute is if a team thinks they should have been in that game but aren't. Read - notre dame , every year.

You see plenty of people giving USC two recent NC's.  I say LSU is the only NC since the BCS conferences agreed to the system, but USC claims it like they never agreed to anything.

That was before the 5 th BCS game was added. Since then the AP has dropped out and the NCAA has decided this is all of the tournament we are going to get and the winner of that rotating number 1 game is the NC. As Mike said, not everyone recognizes that fact, but the winner of that game is the one that gets the trophy, and regardless of what anyone else says, that team is the ONLY team that goes in the official books as the NC. It's not a MNC any longer.

[Bama Possum]

Actually, the NCAA doesn't award a NC in Division I-A football. Never has.

The NCAA actually "recognizes" all the variations up to a point and places them on their clearinghouse page. What causes the confusion is that the institutions choose which NC's they recognize. For example, the NCAA recognizes Alabama as having had NC teams 17 times. The University of Alabama recognizes 12.

Prior to the API and UPI polls, several sports publications gave out a NC award. Most colleges credit those as bonafide to a point. Alabama counts the years that they won the Rose Bowl as NC years along with the publications. Back in the 1920's-1940's, the Rose Bowl was the only bowl game, so it was kind of considered the NC game if you will.

Alabama recognizes 1925 as a NC season 10-0-0 and the first southern team to play in and win a Rose Bowl.

They recognize 1926-  9-0-1 won the Rose Bowl

1930-   10-0-0 won the Rose Bowl

1934- 10-0-0 won the Rose Bowl

1941- 9-0-2  I have personally never understood the recognition of the 1941 team. They tied two and there were other teams also voted by most as #1. This is the only NC Bama claims that I never figured out.

1961- 11-0-0 Coach Bryant's 1st NC team Outscored opponents 297-25. Only had 25 points scored on them all season! BTW...many of these guys are still very active. Mal Moore and Leroy Jordan are just two of the boys of '61 who still have a lot of pull.

1964- 10-1-0  This is the NC that the thread is about. Alabama was awarded the 1964 NC by API/UPI/and Litkenhouse.  This is the NC for the 1963 season, but was awarded in 1964. Alabama's only loss was in the bowl game, which at that time was NOT considered in the voting. Because of this, the services began waiting until after the bowls to award NC's. Fact is Navy, Lafayette, Stanford, and Arkansas were all given NC's by other services.

1965- 9-1-1  Awarded by the AP and football writers. UPI awarded theirs to Michigan State.

1973- 11-1-0 UPI awarded Bama...AP awarded Notre Dame...Dunkel awarded Oklahoma...

1978- 11-1-0  AP and all others awarded Bama. UPI awarded Southern Cal.

1979- 12-0-0  Unanimous award to Bama from all services.

1992- 13-0-0 Unanimous award from all services.


Now, the purpose of this little history lesson is NOT to qualify ANYONE's NC trophies. Fact is, they are all awarded by news groups except for the current BCS. Which is still not the NCAA.

On the other hand, there are other years where Bama was clearly the best team and did NOT get awarded a NC, and the university doesn't recognize those. 1966 is a perfect example. In 1966 Alabama was the ONLY undefeated team in America and outscored opponents 301-44. They didn't get a single vote for NC team...Why? Because of the racial tensions at the time and Alabama was still an all-white team. National sportswriters refused to vote for Alabama because of George Wallace, Bull Conner, and all the other hoopla. Giving an all-white team from Alabama a NC was not a politically correct thing to do...Yep, it existed even back then. There is a wonderful book about the 1966 team called, "The Missing Ring".

http://www.amazon.com/Missing-Ring-Alabama-Crimson-Footballs/dp/0312336837

Until there is a legitimate playoff system and a NC awarded by the NCAA, the controversy will never be over.

[pigsooiec5]

Until the BCS came along the NCAA did not award a national championship in football.

The NCAA still does not award a national championship in Division I-A (or whatever they call it now) football.
http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/ia_football_past_champs.html

[jbcarol]

Sagarin used the same algorithm he uses now to determine National Championships in the past including the Bowl Games. 

[MuskogeeHogFan]

My brother in law insists that Alabama won the 64 national championship. I even took him to the Broyles complex and showed him the trophy yet he said it was fake.

Actually, that year, three teams, by three different polls, shared the NC. Arkansas, Alabama and Notre Dame.

[billypig]

Bama Possum,

That was one of the most interesting and educational postings that I have read on H'ville in a long time.

Thank you.

[John Futrall]

Until the BCS came along the NCAA did not award a national championship in football.
So as others have pointed out there were multiple winners in some years because several organizations awarded them.
Common sense dictates that Arkansas was the true national champion in '64. They were the only undefeated team.
They beat Texas and Texas beat Alabama. If I were an Alabama fan I would be ashamed to claim the '64 national title. It's totally bogus.
What I would acknowledge was that the two major polls awarded a title before the bowls and that was wrong.

Surely you jest.

No Alabama fan has EVER been ashamed of ANYTHING

Any Alabama fan caught acknowledging that one of their claimed titles was bogus would be tarred and feathered and then shot and then hung from the neck until dead.

Not even Mike Shula?