BIG XII vs SEC

[TOMMY DAWG 55]

National Championships Dominance would go to the Big XII. :razorback:

SEC not far behind. :razorback:

[Chief Mac]

Hmm, the SEC is 10-11 in football vs. the Big 12 since 2000 and 15-32 in basketball over the same time period.  Who's better?

SEC has 4 National titles in football alone in the last 10 years, the Big 12 has 2

[Chief Mac]

national championships, head-to-head dominance, greater production of NFL/NBA players.

Clear to me, anyway.

I'm not sure about the greater production of NFL/NBA players.  That could be true but I'm not sure.  What I do know is that the SEC DOES NOT have more national championships than the SEC and the head to head dominance is clearly not there.  Again, since 2000, the SEC is 10-11 against the Big 12 and 15-32 in basketball.  Dominance IS NOT there.

As far as the National Championships, here's the all time list for men's sports.

Southern California: 73
UCLA: 70
Stanford: 57
Oklahoma State: 48
Arkansas: 43
Michigan: 30
Yale: 25
California: 23
Indiana: 23
Iowa: 21
UTEP: 21
Wisconsin: 21

Here's the total for both Men and Women

Southern California: 73
UCLA: 70
Stanford: 57
Oklahoma State: 48
Arkansas: 43
Michigan: 30
Yale: 25
California: 23
Indiana: 23
Iowa: 21
UTEP: 21
Wisconsin: 21


Obviously, for OSU, it's been wrestling and for Ark it's been track.

So, the question still remains, "What does the SEC have better than the Big 12 for Arkansas?

you need to base this arguement over the last 10-12 years, not throughout NCAA history as the current Big 12 and SEC were not in the same configuration prior to 10-12 years ago.

[TOMMY DAWG 55]

Very Interesting :razorback:

[Lhs]

national championships, head-to-head dominance, greater production of NFL/NBA players.

Clear to me, anyway.

I'm not sure about the greater production of NFL/NBA players.  That could be true but I'm not sure.  What I do know is that the SEC DOES NOT have more national championships than the SEC and the head to head dominance is clearly not there.  Again, since 2000, the SEC is 10-11 against the Big 12 and 15-32 in basketball.  Dominance IS NOT there.

As far as the National Championships, here's the all time list for men's sports.

Southern California: 73
UCLA: 70
Stanford: 57
Oklahoma State: 48
Arkansas: 43
Michigan: 30
Yale: 25
California: 23
Indiana: 23
Iowa: 21
UTEP: 21
Wisconsin: 21

Here's the total for both Men and Women

Southern California: 73
UCLA: 70
Stanford: 57
Oklahoma State: 48
Arkansas: 43
Michigan: 30
Yale: 25
California: 23
Indiana: 23
Iowa: 21
UTEP: 21
Wisconsin: 21


Obviously, for OSU, it's been wrestling and for Ark it's been track.

So, the question still remains, "What does the SEC have better than the Big 12 for Arkansas?

you need to base this arguement over the last 10-12 years, not throughout NCAA history as the current Big 12 and SEC were not in the same configuration prior to 10-12 years ago.

Sure, lets say since 2000.  Head to head competition favors Big12.  The SEC is 01-11 against the Big 12 in football and 15-32 in basketball. 

I'm just saying that the SEC isn't better than the Big12 overall.  Sure you can pick a year to two for each side where they dominated, but it's not like the SEC is the God of all conferences.

[kimjongsqUeAl]

Big 12.  Easier conference to compete in.   Better recruiting base in Texas.  Let me rephrase---good recruiting base in Texas in which we can better compete for recruits.  Geography.

SEC is clearly the better conference--so a program that is mired in mediocrity (thanks to HDN) would compete better in the Big 12.

I'll give you +1 for making fun of Hoosten Nutt-head.

[Pigskin_Porker]

Arkansas is a southern state located in the South.  We should play other southern teams and stay in the SEC which will always be the most prestigious and tradition laden conference.

[Lhs]

Arkansas is a southern state located in the South.  We should play other southern teams and stay in the SEC which will always be the most prestigious and tradition laden conference.

Yeah, but Fayettville is North of OU, UT, TECH, Baylor, A&M and about even with OSU.  Take Baylor out of there and put UA there and that would be a heck of a division.

Yes, Ark is a southern state, but the SEC have never really accepted Arkansas because of the lack of rivalries. 

Anyway, it's not about Arkansas joining the Big 12 eventhough that's what the polls says, but rather that the SEC isn't that much better, if better at all, then the Big 12.  I don't see Ark leaving but perhaps they shouldn't, but the Big 12 has a lot to offer.

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

SEC no question about it.

The best athletic conference in the country. In this academic year:

Football- Florida
basketball- Florida
women's basketball- Tennessee
women's bowling- Vanderbilt
swimming and diving- Auburn
probably forgetting some

and then Tennessee played for the women's softball title.

best conference in the country bar none.

[Pigskin_Porker]

Arkansas is a southern state located in the South.  We should play other southern teams and stay in the SEC which will always be the most prestigious and tradition laden conference.

Yeah, but Fayettville is North of OU, UT, TECH, Baylor, A&M and about even with OSU.  Take Baylor out of there and put UA there and that would be a heck of a division.

Yes, Ark is a southern state, but the SEC have never really accepted Arkansas because of the lack of rivalries. 

Anyway, it's not about Arkansas joining the Big 12 eventhough that's what the polls says, but rather that the SEC isn't that much better, if better at all, then the Big 12.  I don't see Ark leaving but perhaps they shouldn't, but the Big 12 has a lot to offer.

I can understand your points.  I agree if you replaced us with Baylor the Big 12 South would be loaded.  It also might end up being considered the best top to bottom division of any conference. 

We would have the same lack of rivalries if we were in the Big 12 conference.

[Chief Mac]

national championships, head-to-head dominance, greater production of NFL/NBA players.

Clear to me, anyway.

I'm not sure about the greater production of NFL/NBA players.  That could be true but I'm not sure.  What I do know is that the SEC DOES NOT have more national championships than the SEC and the head to head dominance is clearly not there.  Again, since 2000, the SEC is 10-11 against the Big 12 and 15-32 in basketball.  Dominance IS NOT there.

As far as the National Championships, here's the all time list for men's sports.

Southern California: 73
UCLA: 70
Stanford: 57
Oklahoma State: 48
Arkansas: 43
Michigan: 30
Yale: 25
California: 23
Indiana: 23
Iowa: 21
UTEP: 21
Wisconsin: 21

Here's the total for both Men and Women

Southern California: 73
UCLA: 70
Stanford: 57
Oklahoma State: 48
Arkansas: 43
Michigan: 30
Yale: 25
California: 23
Indiana: 23
Iowa: 21
UTEP: 21
Wisconsin: 21


Obviously, for OSU, it's been wrestling and for Ark it's been track.

So, the question still remains, "What does the SEC have better than the Big 12 for Arkansas?

you need to base this arguement over the last 10-12 years, not throughout NCAA history as the current Big 12 and SEC were not in the same configuration prior to 10-12 years ago.

Sure, lets say since 2000.  Head to head competition favors Big12.  The SEC is 01-11 against the Big 12 in football and 15-32 in basketball. 

I'm just saying that the SEC isn't better than the Big12 overall.  Sure you can pick a year to two for each side where they dominated, but it's not like the SEC is the God of all conferences.

It's not just about head-to-head (that is a simplistic view), it's about being in a position and being prepared to play for national championships.  The SEC has won more and been in more championship games over that period than ANY conference.

Championships in the big 3 (football, baseball, and basketball) since 1996

SEC  11
Big 12 3

The SEC has almost 1/3 the championships out of the "big 3" men's sports over a 10 year period (30 total championships between the three sports) .  The Big 12 3 out of 30.

Proof is in the pudding (or championship trophy case)

[Ouachihog]

[/quote]
 

We would have the same lack of rivalries if we were in the Big 12 conference.
[/quote]

You don't think adding texas, texas a&m, and OU would give us better rivalries?

[TOMMY DAWG 55]

Actually, the BIG XII averages 1 or 2 rivalry games (trophy games included like arkansas and LSU) per team a year in college football. There are alot of rivalries in the BIG XII and arkansas would no doubt be in rivalries with oklahoma and texas and many more. :razorback:

Example:Look at Kansas (They have Rivalries with Kansas State (Govenors Cup Trophy) and Missouri (Kansas/Missouri Border War Trophy) and then a rivalry with Nebraska. :razorback:

There would no doubt be border wars with oklahoma and Texas and even Missouri no including the trophy games added :razorback: 

[Pigskin_Porker]

We would have the same lack of rivalries if we were in the Big 12 conference.
[/quote]

You don't think adding texas, texas a&m, and OU would give us better rivalries?
[/quote]

I think in our eyes it would give us better rivalries BUT NOT IN THEIR EYES . . . .

Texas / Oklahoma
Texas / Texas A&M
Oklahoma / Nebraska
Texas A&M / Texas Tech

I think LSU has potential if we can start beating them consistently and maybe something with Ole Miss could get started??  We do have some history with both teams prior to us joining the SEC.

[BigHog396]

national championships, head-to-head dominance, greater production of NFL/NBA players.

Clear to me, anyway.

I'm not sure about the greater production of NFL/NBA players.  That could be true but I'm not sure.  What I do know is that the SEC DOES NOT have more national championships than the SEC and the head to head dominance is clearly not there.  Again, since 2000, the SEC is 10-11 against the Big 12 and 15-32 in basketball.  Dominance IS NOT there.

As far as the National Championships, here's the all time list for men's sports.

Southern California: 73
UCLA: 70
Stanford: 57
Oklahoma State: 48
Arkansas: 43
Michigan: 30
Yale: 25
California: 23
Indiana: 23
Iowa: 21
UTEP: 21
Wisconsin: 21

Here's the total for both Men and Women

Southern California: 73
UCLA: 70
Stanford: 57
Oklahoma State: 48
Arkansas: 43
Michigan: 30
Yale: 25
California: 23
Indiana: 23
Iowa: 21
UTEP: 21
Wisconsin: 21


Obviously, for OSU, it's been wrestling and for Ark it's been track.

So, the question still remains, "What does the SEC have better than the Big 12 for Arkansas?

ARE YOU FREAKING SERIOUS?  You really have NO clue about what you are trying to discuss.  Lets look at the SEC numbers since 2000 vs the Big12 numbers since it first became a conference in 96-97.

SEC OVERALL TEAM NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS SINCE 2000:
69

BIG12 OVERALL TEAM NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS SINCE 1996-1997:
30

Now tell me how great the Big 12 is!  And by the way, the SEC has won nearly 80 overall team National Championships since the Big 12 was formed.

Man... get your facts straight before you come on here talking smack about things you are completely ignorant of!

[Ouachihog]

We would have the same lack of rivalries if we were in the Big 12 conference.

You don't think adding texas, texas a&m, and OU would give us better rivalries?
[/quote]

I think in our eyes it would give us better rivalries BUT NOT IN THEIR EYES . . . .

Texas / Oklahoma
Texas / Texas A&M
Oklahoma / Nebraska
Texas A&M / Texas Tech

I think LSU has potential if we can start beating them consistently and maybe something with Ole Miss could get started??  We do have some history with both teams prior to us joining the SEC.
[/quote]

Point taken.  I wouldn't really care if they considered us a rival though.  Without a doubt, Arkansas' most hated rival is texass.  Even though Arkansas has never been texass' most hated rival, that hasn't diminished the intensity from our point of view. 

[Pigskin_Porker]

We would have the same lack of rivalries if we were in the Big 12 conference.

You don't think adding texas, texas a&m, and OU would give us better rivalries?

I think in our eyes it would give us better rivalries BUT NOT IN THEIR EYES . . . .

Texas / Oklahoma
Texas / Texas A&M
Oklahoma / Nebraska
Texas A&M / Texas Tech

I think LSU has potential if we can start beating them consistently and maybe something with Ole Miss could get started??  We do have some history with both teams prior to us joining the SEC.
[/quote]

Point taken.  I wouldn't really care if they considered us a rival though.  Without a doubt, Arkansas' most hated rival is texass.  Even though Arkansas has never been texass' most hated rival, that hasn't diminished the intensity from our point of view. 
[/quote]

We do hate Texas in my opinion the most out of everybody else including LSU.  Even though it was LSU who f'd up our back to back National Championship possibility (winning 22 straight and losing # 23 to LSU in the bowl game).  But having experienced the Red River rivalry first hand and seeing the bar fights between fans I think OU hates Texas even more than we do.  I think our hatred for Texas is on par with Texas A&M . . . .

[TheNuttlessFrontier]

Leaving the SEC for the Big 12 is like resetting the difficulty level from the Heisman level to the Junior Varsity level so you can win on NCAA Football for Playstation. 

[Pigskin_Porker]

Leaving the SEC for the Big 12 is like resetting the difficulty level from the Heisman level to the Junior Varsity level so you can win on NCAA Football for Playstation. 

LOL!!!   

[BigHog396]

national championships, head-to-head dominance, greater production of NFL/NBA players.

Clear to me, anyway.

I'm not sure about the greater production of NFL/NBA players.  That could be true but I'm not sure.  What I do know is that the SEC DOES NOT have more national championships than the SEC and the head to head dominance is clearly not there.  Again, since 2000, the SEC is 10-11 against the Big 12 and 15-32 in basketball.  Dominance IS NOT there.

As far as the National Championships, here's the all time list for men's sports.

Southern California: 73
UCLA: 70
Stanford: 57
Oklahoma State: 48
Arkansas: 43
Michigan: 30
Yale: 25
California: 23
Indiana: 23
Iowa: 21
UTEP: 21
Wisconsin: 21

Here's the total for both Men and Women

Southern California: 73
UCLA: 70
Stanford: 57
Oklahoma State: 48
Arkansas: 43
Michigan: 30
Yale: 25
California: 23
Indiana: 23
Iowa: 21
UTEP: 21
Wisconsin: 21


Obviously, for OSU, it's been wrestling and for Ark it's been track.

So, the question still remains, "What does the SEC have better than the Big 12 for Arkansas?

ARE YOU FREAKING SERIOUS?  You really have NO clue about what you are trying to discuss.  Lets look at the SEC numbers since 2000 vs the Big12 numbers since it first became a conference in 96-97.

SEC OVERALL TEAM NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS SINCE 2000:
69

BIG12 OVERALL TEAM NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS SINCE 1996-1997:
30

Now tell me how great the Big 12 is!  And by the way, the SEC has won nearly 80 overall team National Championships since the Big 12 was formed.

Man... get your facts straight before you come on here talking smack about things you are completely ignorant of!

What's wrong Lhs?  Cat got your tongue?  Or is it that you just have no argument now that I have posted the numbers to prove what you were claiming is completely inaccurate.

[ExArky]

Arkansas is a southern state located in the South.  We should play other southern teams and stay in the SEC which will always be the most prestigious and tradition laden conference.

Northwest Arkansas is more Midwest than South ... lots of people in the Deep South consider all of Arkansas to be in the Midwest, not the South ... geographically, Big XII is a much better fit, with 5 schools closer to Fayetteville than the closest is in the SEC ... but monetarily, Arkansas would be foolish to leave the SEC, the richest conference in college sports ... it's really too bad for UA that the SEC couldn't have snagged Texas and A&M when they had the chance and rendered the question moot ...

[Sanctified Swine]

let see... if we were to replace Baylor

SEC WEST   vs.       Big 12 south

FOOTBALL

LSU             vs.       Texas  = pretty good match
Auburn         vs.       Oklahoma  = pretty good match again
Alabama       vs.        Texas A&M  = I give Bama a slight edge
Ole Miss       vs.        Texas Tech  = Texas Tech solid win
Miss St.       vs.         Oklahoma St. = Oklahoma St. solid win

in football at least we would be in a tougher division than we are now if we were to go to the saouth

Football...if we were to replace Colorado

SEC WEST   vs     Big 12 North

LSU            vs.    Nebraska         LSU kills
Auburn        vs.    Kansas St.       Auburn Kills
Alabama      vs.    Missouri           Bama Kills
Ole Miss      vs.    Kansas            even
Miss St.      vs      Iowa St.         Iowa St. slight edge

OK the  SEC West wins that one...the cool thing with this scenario is that the Hogs would certainly be fighting with Nebraska every year for the Big 12 North title. We would regularly be in BCS talk.

Basketball

SEC WEST   vs    Big 12 south

Alabama       vs.     Texas    Texas easily
Miss St.        vs.     Texas A&M   for now the aggies  we will see
Ole Miss        vs      Oklahoma St.    Okie St. easily
LSU              vs.     Texas Tech                 pretty even - but Tech right now
Auburn          vs   OU                    OU

No question here   Big 12 South is much tougher in hoops than the SEC WEST

Basketball

SEC WEST   VS.     Big 12 North

Alabama       vs    Kansas            Jayhawks by a mile
Miss St.        vs.   Missouri          Miss St. for now
OLE MISS      vs.   Kansas St.       even
LSU              vs. Nebraska           LSU
Auburn          vs   Iowa St.          even

pretty even with the big 12 North...we would be a solid second best in the big 12 north hoops

I don't see a real "step down" with a move to the Big 12. If anything a move to the Big 12 south would be tougher and a move to the Big 12 north easier in Football but about the same in Hoops.

I am not a conference fan, I am a Hog fan. If moving to the big 12 allows to do better at a national level, I am for it.

[BigHog396]

Arkansas is a southern state located in the South.  We should play other southern teams and stay in the SEC which will always be the most prestigious and tradition laden conference.

Northwest Arkansas is more Midwest than South ... lots of people in the Deep South consider all of Arkansas to be in the Midwest, not the South ... geographically, Big XII is a much better fit, with 5 schools closer to Fayetteville than the closest is in the SEC ... but monetarily, Arkansas would be foolish to leave the SEC, the richest conference in college sports ... it's really too bad for UA that the SEC couldn't have snagged Texas and A&M when they had the chance and rendered the question moot ...

The Big12 schools for the most part are closer to Fayetteville, but don't you know all TRUE Hog fans live in the Little Rock/Central Arkansas region.  With that being the case, it would be a LONGER trip on average (for the TRUE Hog fans) to see the Hogs play the Big12 schools than it is to see the Hogs play the SEC schools.

[BigHog396]

let see... if we were to replace Baylor

SEC WEST   vs.       Big 12 south

FOOTBALL

LSU             vs.       Texas  = pretty good match
Auburn         vs.       Oklahoma  = pretty good match again
Alabama       vs.        Texas A&M  = I give Bama a slight edge
Ole Miss       vs.        Texas Tech  = Texas Tech solid win
Miss St.       vs.         Oklahoma St. = Oklahoma St. solid win

in football at least we would be in a tougher division than we are now if we were to go to the saouth

Football...if we were to replace Colorado

SEC WEST   vs     Big 12 North

LSU            vs.    Nebraska         LSU kills
Auburn        vs.    Kansas St.       Auburn Kills
Alabama      vs.    Missouri           Bama Kills
Ole Miss      vs.    Kansas            even
Miss St.      vs      Iowa St.         Iowa St. slight edge

OK the  SEC West wins that one...the cool thing with this scenario is that the Hogs would certainly be fighting with Nebraska every year for the Big 12 North title. We would regularly be in BCS talk.

Basketball

SEC WEST   vs    Big 12 south

Alabama       vs.     Texas    Texas easily
Miss St.        vs.     Texas A&M   for now the aggies  we will see
Ole Miss        vs      Oklahoma St.    Okie St. easily
LSU              vs.     Texas Tech                 pretty even - but Tech right now
Auburn          vs   OU                    OU

No question here   Big 12 South is much tougher in hoops than the SEC WEST

Basketball

SEC WEST   VS.     Big 12 North

Alabama       vs    Kansas            Jayhawks by a mile
Miss St.        vs.   Missouri          Miss St. for now
OLE MISS      vs.   Kansas St.       even
LSU              vs. Nebraska           LSU
Auburn          vs   Iowa St.          even

pretty even with the big 12 North...we would be a solid second best in the big 12 north hoops

I don't see a real "step down" with a move to the Big 12. If anything a move to the Big 12 south would be tougher and a move to the Big 12 north easier in Football but about the same in Hoops.

I am not a conference fan, I am a Hog fan. If moving to the big 12 allows to do better at a national level, I am for it.

Since when can you look at a snapshot in time to determine which schools are tougher?  Look at it realistically... as in based on the history of the programs... and then come talk to me.

[southtxhog]

I live in Texas and work with 2 huge UT fans.  They could care less about Arkansas.  We would rank #3 on their list of rivalries behind OU and A&M.  I don't think changing to a lesser conference would be justified by adding a rivalry that could care less about us.  The SEC is respected way more than the Big XII currently is.  The Big XII is a good conference, just not as strong as the SEC.

[TOMMY DAWG 55]

If arkansas can win against texas and all the teams in the swc and go to the orange bowl and play for the national championship against oklahoma in 1985 and be ranked #1 and #2 for several years, that tells me that arkansas could do just as good in the Big XII south region and play nebraska or any other team in the BIG XII north region in the BIG XII championship and play in a bcs bowl game or national championship( The Big XII is 2nd strongest conference in the country and would make the SWC look like a high school conference), because like the swc ,arkansas would have a strong schedule not only playing teams like oklahoma and texas (example) but sec non-conference teams like mississippi and LSU and bring that overall rating of the schedule up, just like arkansas did back before they joined the SEC.Im very much for arkansas playing in the SEC and BIG XII because i love both conferences, i would love arkansas to be in either conference. :razorback:

[demonHOG1013]

IF the SEC wasnt a step up we never would have left the SWC and those remaining teams wouldnt have joined the Big 8. The Big 12 owes its existence to the University of Arkansas. SEC ALL THE WAY!! No question

[demonHOG1013]

Arkansas is a southern state located in the South.  We should play other southern teams and stay in the SEC which will always be the most prestigious and tradition laden conference.

Northwest Arkansas is more Midwest than South ... lots of people in the Deep South consider all of Arkansas to be in the Midwest, not the South ... geographically, Big XII is a much better fit, with 5 schools closer to Fayetteville than the closest is in the SEC ... but monetarily, Arkansas would be foolish to leave the SEC, the richest conference in college sports ... it's really too bad for UA that the SEC couldn't have snagged Texas and A&M when they had the chance and rendered the question moot ...

The Big12 schools for the most part are closer to Fayetteville, but don't you know all TRUE Hog fans live in the Little Rock/Central Arkansas region.  With that being the case, it would be a LONGER trip on average (for the TRUE Hog fans) to see the Hogs play the Big12 schools than it is to see the Hogs play the SEC schools.

SURELY you jest.

[TOMMY DAWG 55]

IF the SEC wasnt a step up we never would have left the SWC and those remaining teams wouldnt have joined the Big 8. The Big 12 owes its existence to the University of Arkansas. SEC ALL THE WAY!! No question

Really? That is very interesting, if memory serves, an invite to the new Big XII was given way before the SEC invite. The Big 8 commission had intentions of taking arkansas and most of the winning programs from the SWC. Arkansas interest changed when the SEC gave arkansas an invite and arkansas excepted the SEC. I don't seem to get why the Big 8/ Big XII owes anything to the U of A, they were going to take arkansas anyway. :razorback:

[TOMMY DAWG 55]

For my own selfish reasons I voted Big XII.  Just moved to SE Texas.  

Nothing wrong with that, your entitled to your opinion and vote. :razorback: 

[slopinhogs]

hog goblin you got the big 12 with what used to be the big 8. i thought the big 12 was Michigan ,Michigan st .Indiana, Purdue ,Penn st ,Ohio State, Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois,North Western,Texas :razorback:

[TOMMY DAWG 55]

hog goblin you got the big 12 with what used to be the big 8. i thought the big 12 was Michigan ,Michigan st .Indiana, Purdue ,Penn st ,Ohio State, Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois,North Western,Texas :razorback:

Thats the Big 10 Conference= Michigan-Ohio State-Penn State-Illinois-Indiana-Michigan State-etc.

People use big 12 in a easy term for Big XII. :razorback:

[BigHog396]

Arkansas is a southern state located in the South.  We should play other southern teams and stay in the SEC which will always be the most prestigious and tradition laden conference.

Northwest Arkansas is more Midwest than South ... lots of people in the Deep South consider all of Arkansas to be in the Midwest, not the South ... geographically, Big XII is a much better fit, with 5 schools closer to Fayetteville than the closest is in the SEC ... but monetarily, Arkansas would be foolish to leave the SEC, the richest conference in college sports ... it's really too bad for UA that the SEC couldn't have snagged Texas and A&M when they had the chance and rendered the question moot ...

The Big12 schools for the most part are closer to Fayetteville, but don't you know all TRUE Hog fans live in the Little Rock/Central Arkansas region.  With that being the case, it would be a LONGER trip on average (for the TRUE Hog fans) to see the Hogs play the Big12 schools than it is to see the Hogs play the SEC schools.

SURELY you jest.

Of course... I get tired of all the NWA vs Central Ark crap, and just couldn't resist throwing a jab at the nit-wits that act like one group is better fans than the other.

[Ouachihog]

I live in Texas and work with 2 huge UT fans.  They could care less about Arkansas.  We would rank #3 on their list of rivalries behind OU and A&M.  I don't think changing to a lesser conference would be justified by adding a rivalry that could care less about us.  The SEC is respected way more than the Big XII currently is.  The Big XII is a good conference, just not as strong as the SEC.

Come to fayetteville in 2009 when texas comes to town and tell me if it feels like a rivalry game or not.  Ask Arkansas fans who their most hated rival is, and see what response you get.  Like I said earlier, I don't really care how much, or how little, texas hates us.  They are still our #1 rival. 

[TOMMY DAWG 55]

I think either Big XII or SEC will suffice to me where Arkansas goes. I love the Rivalries and the Atmosphere, thats what makes college sports great!!! :razorback:   

[southtxhog]

I live in Texas and work with 2 huge UT fans.  They could care less about Arkansas.  We would rank #3 on their list of rivalries behind OU and A&M.  I don't think changing to a lesser conference would be justified by adding a rivalry that could care less about us.  The SEC is respected way more than the Big XII currently is.  The Big XII is a good conference, just not as strong as the SEC.

Come to fayetteville in 2009 when texas comes to town and tell me if it feels like a rivalry game or not.  Ask Arkansas fans who their most hated rival is, and see what response you get.  Like I said earlier, I don't really care how much, or how little, texas hates us.  They are still our #1 rival. 

So, are you saying that you want to leave the SEC to go to the Big XII just to play Texas.  Wow, if that's what you are saying, that's pretty drastic just to play one team.  I hate Texas just as much as the next Hog fan, but I think it's silly to leave a superior conference just to play a team that could care less about you.

I live in the Big XII and it sucks.  If you hate the SEC broadcasters, you will loathe the Big XII broadcasters.  In their opinion, if you are not OU or UT, you might as well go home.  What does that remind you of......oh yeah SWC.  Remember those days.  I'll take the SEC any day.

[Ouachihog]

I live in Texas and work with 2 huge UT fans.  They could care less about Arkansas.  We would rank #3 on their list of rivalries behind OU and A&M.  I don't think changing to a lesser conference would be justified by adding a rivalry that could care less about us.  The SEC is respected way more than the Big XII currently is.  The Big XII is a good conference, just not as strong as the SEC.

Come to fayetteville in 2009 when texas comes to town and tell me if it feels like a rivalry game or not.  Ask Arkansas fans who their most hated rival is, and see what response you get.  Like I said earlier, I don't really care how much, or how little, texas hates us.  They are still our #1 rival. 

So, are you saying that you want to leave the SEC to go to the Big XII just to play Texas.  Wow, if that's what you are saying, that's pretty drastic just to play one team.  I hate Texas just as much as the next Hog fan, but I think it's silly to leave a superior conference just to play a team that could care less about you.

I live in the Big XII and it sucks.  If you hate the SEC broadcasters, you will loathe the Big XII broadcasters.  In their opinion, if you are not OU or UT, you might as well go home.  What does that remind you of......oh yeah SWC.  Remember those days.  I'll take the SEC any day.

I'm not saying I would advocate leaving the SEC, it obviously has its advantages.  However, it is a fact that we have more natural rivals in the big 12, and we are more geographically aligned with the big 12. 

The argument that the SEC is far superior to the big 12 is not that strong either, IMO.  I mentioned in another thread, the BIG 12 has been ranked higher than the SEC in football conference RPI 5 of the last 8 years and 2 of the last 3.  Do I believe the SEC is stronger overall?  Yes.  Is there a drastic, sustained gap between the big 12 and SEC as far as overall power?  No. 

[Lhs]

IF the SEC wasnt a step up we never would have left the SWC and those remaining teams wouldnt have joined the Big 8. The Big 12 owes its existence to the University of Arkansas. SEC ALL THE WAY!! No question

Really? That is very interesting, if memory serves, an invite to the Big XII was given way before the SEC invite. The Big XII commission had intentions of taking arkansas and most of the winning programs in the SWC. Arkansas interest changed when the SEC gave arkansas an invite and arkansas excepted the SEC. I don't seem to get why the Big XII owes anything to the U of A, they were going to take arkansas anyway. :razorback:

I may be wrong, but didn't Arkansas go to the SEC BEFORE the Big 12 was formed?  The first year of the Big 12 was 1996.

[TOMMY DAWG 55]

SEC teams have beaten Big XII teams in bowl games
Big XII teams have beaten SEC teams in bowl games

I don't see the 2 conferences being any better than the other over the years.Being the 1st and 2nd best conferences in the nation is a outstanding accomplishment.I just shows me that the Big XII isn't as weak as it was lead to believe and certainly wouldn't be if arkansas was added to the conference. The SEC is a great conference to be in and im glad arkansas is in it.Im looking forward to the day when the SEC will give the hogs some respect is my only downfall to the conference. :razorback:  

[TOMMY DAWG 55]

IF the SEC wasnt a step up we never would have left the SWC and those remaining teams wouldnt have joined the Big 8. The Big 12 owes its existence to the University of Arkansas. SEC ALL THE WAY!! No question

Really? That is very interesting, if memory serves, an invite from the Big 8 to the new Big XII was given way before the SEC invite. The Big 8 commission had intentions of taking arkansas and most of the winning programs from the SWC to dissolved what remained of the SWC. Arkansas interest changed when the SEC gave arkansas an invite and arkansas excepted the SEC. I don't seem to get why the Big 8/Big XII owes anything to the U of A, they were going to take arkansas anyway. :razorback:

I may be wrong, but didn't Arkansas go to the SEC BEFORE the Big 12 was formed?  The first year of the Big 12 was 1996.

Yes arkansas did, Arkansas joined the SEC in 1992 (1 1/2 waiting period for the sec schedule),but arkansas got the Big 8 invite to the new Big XII first in 1990 and turned it down. I found out that the Big 8 commission took a bit of time to find the swc teams they wanted in the new big XII, because there were a few to choose from and of course after the waiting period of around 2 years for the new Big XII schedule for the new teams until 1996 and the SWC was officially deceased. :razorback: 

[hog.goblin]

hog goblin you got the big 12 with what used to be the big 8. i thought the big 12 was Michigan ,Michigan st .Indiana, Purdue ,Penn st ,Ohio State, Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois,North Western,Texas :razorback:

Thats the Big 10 Conference= Michigan-Ohio State-Penn State-Illinois-Indiana-Michigan State-etc.

People use big 12 in a easy term for Big XII. :razorback:

Correct TD55...of course the Big 10 really has 11 teams...they need to add one more team and create a championship game of their own...perhaps Notre Dame and help fix the mess that is the BCS.

But that is another story of another thread.

[TOMMY DAWG 55]

Excellent Post, 

I agree Notre Dame should be in the Big 10 :razorback:

Question: What conference is Notre Dame in now? Is it the independent conference or another? Its been ages since i looked up there conference.

[TOMMY DAWG 55]

Im curious to what University would take over Colorado's place if the Big XII decide to dismiss Colorado from the Conference. I can only think of Wyoming,Missouri State,Colorado State, (But same as Colorado in geographic problem, wouldn't see why Colorado would be dismissed for CSU) Western Kentucky,South or North Dakota, or even Illinois State might be a consideration too.I would hate to see Colorado be dismissed because the program has had a good run in the Big 8 and XII in the past. :razorback: 

[Ouachihog]

Excellent Post, 

I agree Notre Dame should be in the Big 10 :razorback:

Question: What conference is Notre Dame in now? Is it the independent conference or another? Its been ages since i looked up there conference.

Notre Dame is an independent.  Since they have no conference affiliation, they qualify for the BCS if the have a top 9 BCS ranking. 

[TOMMY DAWG 55]

I can see why Notre Dame competes almost every year, they have an agenda to get to the BCS Rankings and BCS Bowl game or National Title Game.I have nothing but respect for the Notre Dame program because they keep fighting hard!! :razorback:

Thank you for that info :razorback:

[demonHOG1013]

IF the SEC wasnt a step up we never would have left the SWC and those remaining teams wouldnt have joined the Big 8. The Big 12 owes its existence to the University of Arkansas. SEC ALL THE WAY!! No question

Really? That is very interesting, if memory serves, an invite to the Big XII was given way before the SEC invite. The Big XII commission had intentions of taking arkansas and most of the winning programs in the SWC. Arkansas interest changed when the SEC gave arkansas an invite and arkansas excepted the SEC. I don't seem to get why the Big XII owes anything to the U of A, they were going to take arkansas anyway. :razorback:

I may be wrong, but didn't Arkansas go to the SEC BEFORE the Big 12 was formed?  The first year of the Big 12 was 1996.

Yes arkansas did, Arkansas joined the SEC in 1992 (1 1/2 waiting period for the sec schedule),but arkansas got the Big XII invite first in 1990 and turned it down. I found out that the Big XII commission took a bit of time to find the swc teams they wanted in the big XII because there were a few to choose from and of course after the waiting period of around 2 years for the Big XII schedule for the new teams until 1996. :razorback:  

The BIG XII wasnt formed until Arkansas went to the SEC. Arkansas leaving the SWC lead to SWC being dissolved and some teams joined the BIG EIGHT while others went elsewhere, thus creating the BIG XII. SO it is impossible for the Razorbacks to have recieved an invite to join the Big XII before the SEC, the Big EIGHT maybe, but not the big XII

[tolerati]

SEC! SEC! SEC! The Big XII is a very good conference...the SEC is the best conference! So SEC Baby all the way!

[darth sooie]

Big 12 dismiss Colorado??? that would never, ever happen.  Also Colorado is a fine geographic fit with the big 12, look at a map and driving distances.  There has been a rumor that Colorado might join the Pac 10 but that is somewhat of a geographic misfit + you got the pain of driving through the mountains. I would guess if Colorado ever left for the Pac 10, the big 12 would probably offer Colorado State to keep the market and poff Ucolorado.  Another thing is i think the big 12 should flip Oklahoma and Kansas State so you would have more balanced divisions:

North
Nebraska
Colorado
Kansas
Missouri
Oklahoma
Iowa State

South
Texas
Tex A&M
Texas Tech
Baylor
Okla State
Kansas State

[Lhs]

I would love to keep Colorado and dismiss Baylor and bring Ark into the South.  But, I guess every conference needs their Baylor/Northwestern/Vanderbilt/Stanford type schools.

[hog991]

I can't believe this is even being questioned... no one wants to take a step down.

It looks like about 25% don't mind stepping down.