HDN Supporter---send me your questions

[PlaygroundLegend]

Playground,
Houston Nutt, Diana Nutt and Teresa Prewett have been allowed to go on tv, onn the radio, newspaper interviews, national tv/web-sites/papers and defend themselves, defend their actions and defend each other.
Mitch Mustain can not do any of that because he is a player who still wants to play football and earn his education.  His mother has be chastised and criticized for every little word she has uttered, the few times she has spoken and can not even defend her kid or her family.
People, like yourself, have made it clear that YOU don't believe that the way THEY handled the situation was right, but yet they haven't been allowed to give their side of the story because people think they should "show class" and sit back and "take it." 
Haven't seen Houston "sit back and take it."
Don't ever forget who has the media's ear and who controls the media's access to the Arkansas program.
And don't ever forget that you will NEVER know the whole story and what really happened because of attitudes just like yours.


Comments: I hear what you're saying. Again, I will say say that I just don't care about the e-mail. No apologies for that. I will point out though, that I don't think people have been suppressed from talking(even grandma, ha). There's plenty of 'splainin' that's gone on...also, I will point out that several things have gone without discussion in this thread i.e. the parent meeting with Broyles that drew much attention in the national media and the Damian Williams parent meeting with the coaches wondering why Damian wasn't on the field for the first snap when he was promised he would start against USC...conclusion, one could argue that people have had ample opportunity to express themselves.

[PlaygroundLegend]

You are making the leap.  I did not say that she was instructed to do so.  I asked if someone close to the head coach's family sent Fish the emails.  Did they?  Did this same person email the Fish emails to all of the coaches' wives?

Comments: I don't see that it matters too much. What if I sent Fish a nasty e-mail over his dropped punt. He still received it, either way. The only thing that really matters to me is if anyone 'inside' with a sinister motive got me to harass him.

I do see where more suspicions are raised if an acquaintance did it. Perception.

[PlaygroundLegend]

Do you not believe something that fails the "smell test" should be investigated by someone other than the person who emitted the odor?

Comments: No, I stated that I didn't feel an e-mail deserved an investigation at all and the recipient of said e-mail should just ignore it. Hit delete or hang up the phone. That e-mail was so stupid how can you take it seriously. An obvious crankpot who could hardly put a sentence together.

[toshortrock]

first of all did Nutt really shower with his underwear on?yes stan did get a raw deal,and how would u feel if your son was getting the old finger in the butt by his headcoach,we will win about 7 games this year,becasue of the great non conference scd. we have, and next we will see how u  really feel

[86jacketstchamps]

and made it a point to communicate with MM and make sure that he understood why he was pulle, that he was a part of the future, that he was a part of this team, and that not only did the team need him but so did the HC.     Now some will say why baby MM......why not? considering the circumstances.....I would say this wouldn't be babying...but mentoring him...making sure he knew that things happen that knock you down..but you always get up...and you do so knowing that you have the full team/coaches support and they have your back.

Comments: I agree totally, but I'm not sure why the feeling is this didn't happen. I thought I distinctly remember statements to this effect after the S Carolina game. Maybe I am mistaken. Things like 'we still need you', 'I just felt like it was time for Casey', on and on. Casey played great but started struggling later(against better teams, of course) and MM started being worked back into the mix again.



I also strongly disagree with your comment on MM had to play..I strongly disagree with that, as most of us had no such high expectations of last year, and most that understand the speed of the SEC had no doubt he would have a tough time adjusting.....It was a poor, knee jerk decision that is just another in a long history of such by Nutt.

Comments: Nutt was coming off two losing seasons, fans were restless, and MM was being viewed as the savior. There had also been much criticism last year for not playing McFadden and Jones more early. So, yes, he had to play MM early and often or risk being run out of town. Remember, Mark Richt played a true freshman for much of the year at Georgia too. Same storyline down there: they had no real alternative and fans wanted to see the hotshot freshman play and learn. So he played.

Interesting that you brought Georgia's situation up.....Richt benched Stafford much like Nutt did MM....however Stafford still went into games after that...and was always a part of game planning.....I wonder who is set better at QB this upcoming year...>GA or UofA?

[Conway Cool Daddy]

How do you defend Nutt's 9 year record against the better teams in the conference, say ,Florida ? Before you say, well, many teams don't do well against them, Let me also ask , is this record good enough for you ? Is not the consistently poor record of HDN the origin  of all the conflict about what HDN does and doesn't do ?Is the tolerance of that poor, second-rate record, not the ultimate difference between the hugger(you) and the darksider(me) , when it comes down to it. You excuse it, I don't. I want something better for the state, the team and the fans of our 1st rate institution. You are , bottom line, content with HDN's product. If this is not true, please enlighten.


Comments: You're right, nearly all of it goes back to his record, and even further back, to expectations. I've stated(earlier) that yes, I have expectations for the football program, but to say we're on the same playing field with the Floridas, LSUs, and Texases of the world is out of touch with reality. Football is a numbers game; it's nothing but a math exercise. You need good players and lots of them, and this state of 2.8mm doesn't produce enough of them. That's not to say Arkansas can't have a good program and have a great year occasionally....Had a friend tell me that was an 'unacceptable' attitude; I just call it being realistic...sometimes the truth hurts. We're not Florida...so, you may say, are you saying you can't win big consistently at Arkansas. I will never say that there doesn't exist some A++ coach that could come in here and win the national championship. If you say you're willing to roll the dice and find out, fair enough. But we already have a B+ coach(my grade) who in nine seasons at least has got into the national title discussion twice(1998 and 2006) and who knows, might actually do it someday. I'm in favor of keeping him, a guy who knows and loves this state. That counts for something to me. He's not a 'gun-for-hire' who's not as likely to leave a la Saban at LSU(unless he's run off)...but you know, I'm just parroting what most outsiders think. That this is a good job, but if you want to win big, you're more likely to do it at LSU, USC, Ohio St, Florida, etc

You make a really good arguement here.
My thoughts are that we have a career 60% winning coach on our hands. (60%SEC, 60% Career)
Under Nutt we have recent home losses to Kentucky and Vanderbilt. These losses move us from middle of the SEC to the bottom. We are probably no better than 8-9 in the league. Throw in our horrible recruiting rankings
which are also ranked about 8-9 in the SEC and you see exactly where Nutt has gotten us.

Is Nutt a terrible coach? No.
Is Nutt ever going to get the Hogs to the next level? Probably not.
Nutt refuses to make adjustments necessary to winning in the SEC. He is arrogant, over confident and just plain hard headed. He continues to surround himself with yes men instead of competent coaches who are held accountable for their work.

I give him a C. Average in every way. We could do better, believe me.

[RebelliousHog]

Couple of points and then I'm outta here.
1. Somebody asked specifically about the contradictory statements about when HDN knew of the MM email. A. We were trying to deal with it in house (cover it up) and B. I didn't know about it until White told me. No matter how you cut it, there is a lie there. You reply was that you had already answered that question. I spent a good bit of time looking through the entire thread. I can find no place where you answered that specific question. In other words you skirted around it because there is no plausible answer. You've tried to blow off the whole email thing as trivial and  "just delete it" , but you know, I bet you would not feel the same had YOUR son received such and email as MM got. I put you in the same category as the people who say that they absolutely are opposed to the death penalty, but if their daughter were to be kidnapped, raped, and murdered, would they feel the same?

2. I haven't seen this point asked. MM apologized to HDN for the dork remark. Yet HDN made no comment about it to anyone, even stating that he had not read the book and wasn't REALLY that concerned about it. Yet MM is subjected to a virtual snatching from a game, is never given a chance to redeem himself, and is subjected to a "Code Red" by players on the team.  Why didn't HDN come out at the moment of apology by MM and say, "Mitch has apologized, it's over, let's go play ball now"?

3. You simply strike me as a apologist for HDN. While lots of your answers are logical, your bottom line is that everybody against HDN is wrong and we should support him simply because he is the COACH.

4. You refer to the "I called that play, Chuck" incident as just after game fun. Go to  http://woopig.net/board/index.php?PHPSESSID=488e1377f0deb78aff030f7f501e61b9&topic=55036.0

and listen closely. Does that sound like a man who is not throwing back smack in the face of criticism?

5. And this bothers me the most:

"How do you defend Nutt's 9 year record against the better teams in the conference, say ,Florida ? Before you say, well, many teams don't do well against them, Let me also ask , is this record good enough for you ? Is not the consistently poor record of HDN the origin  of all the conflict about what HDN does and doesn't do ?Is the tolerance of that poor, second-rate record, not the ultimate difference between the hugger(you) and the darksider(me) , when it comes down to it. You excuse it, I don't. I want something better for the state, the team and the fans of our 1st rate institution. You are , bottom line, content with HDN's product. If this is not true, please enlighten.


Comments: You're right, nearly all of it goes back to his record, and even further back, to expectations. I've stated(earlier) that yes, I have expectations for the football program, but to say we're on the same playing field with the Floridas, LSUs, and Texases of the world is out of touch with reality. Football is a numbers game; it's nothing but a math exercise. You need good players and lots of them, and this state of 2.8mm doesn't produce enough of them. That's not to say Arkansas can't have a good program and have a great year occasionally....Had a friend tell me that was an 'unacceptable' attitude; I just call it being realistic...sometimes the truth hurts. We're not Florida...so, you may say, are you saying you can't win big consistently at Arkansas. I will never say that there doesn't exist some A++ coach that could come in here and win the national championship. If you say you're willing to roll the dice and find out, fair enough. But we already have a B+ coach(my grade) who in nine seasons at least has got into the national title discussion twice(1998 and 2006) and who knows, might actually do it someday. I'm in favor of keeping him, a guy who knows and loves this state. That counts for something to me. He's not a 'gun-for-hire' who's not as likely to leave a la Saban at LSU(unless he's run off)...but you know, I'm just parroting what most outsiders think. That this is a good job, but if you want to win big, you're more likely to do it at LSU, USC, Ohio St, Florida, etc"

The whole idea that Arkansas just cannot compete with the big boys because we can't recruit like they can. Ar. is small, Fayetteville is backwards, whatever. Recruiting is by COACHES. What has Lincoln, Nebraska got that we don't? What has Madison, Wisconsin got that we don't? At various time those schools had a RECRUITING COACH. Ar. really never has. JFB was the last we had that was close. Holtz was not. Hatfield recruited for the option at a time the option was fading out. The coaches between Hatfield and HDN were hardly coaches, much less recruiters. HDN has shown the same mentality. "Poor pitiful us. We just can't recruit to Arkansas". Well, a RECRUITER could. We've just never had one.

[VBHOG]

1) UA had a definite shot at Lee Ziemba. My point was that considering his entire family background is nothing but Auburn, I personally never held much hope that he would sign here. And he didn't, so I was correct in that belief. The surprise to me would have been Ark, not Aub.

Lee Ziemba was very interested in AR until Gus Malzhan left.  Malzhan called him everyday yet Ziemba never got so much as a single text message from the HC.  AR could have got this guy's signature if not for the bafoon that is our HC





Where do you get that information - that Ziemba was interested in Arkansas?  He and Burns verbally committed to Auburn in November.  GM did not leave until January.  How do you reconcile those dates?  That is absolute BS.  Z's family are Auburn alumni, and he was always going there.  Get your facts straight.

You may want to get YOUR facts straight.  Lee Ziemba verbally committed to Auburn a week AFTER Gus left for Tulsa.  Up until that point, we had a legitimate shot at Ziemba because he and Gus have a great relationship.  His decision to go to Auburn was made that much easier when an Arkansas asst. coach called him and bad-mouthed Gus.  Big mistake.

[ballhog88]

Nice logical responses! Everything you said makes sense and there are a lot of us fans who feel the same, REALISTIC. Can we compete for a national championship every year, ain't no way. Can we be competitive every year and have a great year every once in a while, heck ya. Take a look at our history and that's what it looks like.

Know matter how much your answers make sense, your not going to change people's mind. Some poster have to much hatred and some have an agenda.

[Pigmund Freud]

How do you defend Nutt's 9 year record against the better teams in the conference, say ,Florida ? Before you say, well, many teams don't do well against them, Let me also ask , is this record good enough for you ? Is not the consistently poor record of HDN the origin  of all the conflict about what HDN does and doesn't do ?Is the tolerance of that poor, second-rate record, not the ultimate difference between the hugger(you) and the darksider(me) , when it comes down to it. You excuse it, I don't. I want something better for the state, the team and the fans of our 1st rate institution. You are , bottom line, content with HDN's product. If this is not true, please enlighten.


Comments: You're right, nearly all of it goes back to his record, and even further back, to expectations. I've stated(earlier) that yes, I have expectations for the football program, but to say we're on the same playing field with the Floridas, LSUs, and Texases of the world is out of touch with reality. Football is a numbers game; it's nothing but a math exercise. You need good players and lots of them, and this state of 2.8mm doesn't produce enough of them. That's not to say Arkansas can't have a good program and have a great year occasionally....Had a friend tell me that was an 'unacceptable' attitude; I just call it being realistic...sometimes the truth hurts. We're not Florida...so, you may say, are you saying you can't win big consistently at Arkansas. I will never say that there doesn't exist some A++ coach that could come in here and win the national championship. If you say you're willing to roll the dice and find out, fair enough. But we already have a B+ coach(my grade) who in nine seasons at least has got into the national title discussion twice(1998 and 2006) and who knows, might actually do it someday. I'm in favor of keeping him, a guy who knows and loves this state. That counts for something to me. He's not a 'gun-for-hire' who's not as likely to leave a la Saban at LSU(unless he's run off)...but you know, I'm just parroting what most outsiders think. That this is a good job, but if you want to win big, you're more likely to do it at LSU, USC, Ohio St, Florida, etc

Unfortunately, this answer demonstrates exactly the problem with HDN and his defenders. They think defeatism is fine if you call it  realism . They think the U of A is slightly above second -rate status. They think Arkansas is only a little better than Mississippi in all areas of life. They are content to stay that way.

No one should doubt that this is a fight between those of us who think a school with the heritage and prestige and potential of the U of A can and should go to the next level in all areas , including football. It is as simple as that. You have to be on one side or the other. No one should doubt that it is time to choose sides and throw down in the fight, and that all this "reasonable explaining" is just an effort to buy time for the status-quo.  This is truly us against them...The U of A can's vs. the U of A cant's. Can's believe we should bring in the resources and minds and talents necessary to compete with the finest. I'm proud to be a Can. What are you proud of ... your B or C man ?

Moving to the SEC was supposed to cultivate our desire to go to the next level. Now you argue that  a B or C coach is all we should ask for.  Fans like you will keep us headed toward the Murray State's and not toward the Florida's , in my opinion. 

I am frightened for the program that that is all you want for it. What do you think your attitude says to the players. I can tell you what it says to potential recruits..."If you want success boy, go to USC". "If you want to be in HDN's cultish family of mediocre accepting  fans.. come to Arkansas."

For me , bring in those guns- for -hire as soon as you can.

[86jacketstchamps]

I was reading all the posts in here, mine included(funny how sometimes it reads different after a day or two), but there are a few things that both sides make very good points on.  Here is my take on just the major ones:

Championships, BCS Bowls, etc....: 
       Supporters- feel that our progam cannot be in playing for a Nat'l Championship on the same level as some every other year or so.  They also state that BCS Bowls are not as easy to attain as suggested, and that Nutt has had us in more bowl games than the previous coaches in the past.  They mention the 2 trips to Atl for the SECCG, and winning the West last season.
       My View-  I would agree in that for us to expect to be competing for a Nat'l Championship every other year or so...heck even once every 5 years is a stretch.  My problem is that with how Nutt's past seasons have been, and how it seems the team's buildup is now.  There has and is a problem with depth at key positions.  To win a National Title, you have to have depth on your team for reasons other than possible injuries.  Depth provides quality practices, competition that drives those desiring to start, flexibility with offensive strategies, gameday planning, aiding in building a solid recruiting plan, and of course the injuries that come with a touch conference and long season.  This has been a glaring problem with Nutt, and you can look at recruiting(to be discussed in a minute), but the main thing I have an issue with, his is obvious inability to utilize the NCAA gift of redshirting.  Nutt has seemed to have a problem with this for a long time, with my reasoning being that he is not as organized as a HC should be.  I am not saying he doesn't try to be organized, but that is a trait that you have to have, and not learn.  In being organized I mean, look at how many players have lost redshirts due to him sticking them in the game due to a sudden ankle twist of a starter or equipment problem.  Example:We all know that Bledsoe had the potential, but obviously had issues with practice.  Cord Gray was a freshman from Wynne, with promise, and was on the way to redshirting his freshman year, when a DL went down with equipment problems at the end of the half in a nonconference game.  Bledsoe, who had played some, but was in the doghouse was there, but instead Nutt allowed Gray to go in the game, and finish out the series.  This caused him to lose his redshirt, with him not getting on the field again the rest of the season.  I never understood why they didnt just put Bledsoe in, and who knows...maybe he makes a big play and gets a better attitude....

Either Recruiting is overrated or the coaches develope well:
      Supporters contend: That rankings on athletes are overated and do not mean as much, as how the player developes and how he fits in at the program.  They go on to state that if Nutt is a bad recruiter, then he must be a good coach due to the NFL signees that have come through the program and the current Heisman Trophy favorite at RB.

      My take on this is that although on the outside, this is a solid explanation and question for those that lash out at Nutt by saying "he is horrible at recruiting, and coaching"....if you look at all the other issues involved with recruiting, you will see a much different picture.   As I mentioned above, Nutt's inability to build depth on the team is a direct result in his past failures in building a recruiting plan.  I would associate this with a company's business plan, which you must have and follow or you will fail.  Go back to when Matt Jones was at QB.  I enjoyed every down, and never knew what was next.  However, the entire time during those years, we had no identity of an offense, and recruited both pure drop back passers and athletic option run/pass type players at a very KEY position on offense.  This is not only key in regards to that player being your QB, but also many other players will look at who a team is after, and who they sign prior to them deciding who they may be interested in.  Is a speedy, tall, athletic WR going to be interested in a team that signs a QB known more for being athletic, and not developed in the area of passing?  A lineman that is touted as being a solid pass blocking T going to be interested in a run only type program?  I understand that all lineman need to be good at both run and pass blocking, but which is going to be easier to adjust to, is what they will look at as well.    This reasoning goes on down the line with TE, RB's and so forth.

With a solid recruiting plan, it is also easier to look 3,4, & 5 years down the road and see your areas of need at depth and certain positions.  Things that you cannot control are grades, earlier departures, unforeseen issues, and so on....but for sure the one thing you can control is planning and working that plan.  It seems to me that Nutt and his staff may start out well, and will even be in on some quality guys in the Southeast.  Then has other schools get involved and signing day approaches, I have noticed how we will simply abandon some names, all of a sudden get in on a name that had not been on our list earlier or possibly not a priority, and we seem to go after guys that may have a headline or two...versus fitting into the plan. 

Now, does Nutt's staff coach up if rankings are overused....I say yes in some ways, but no in others.  Markuson has done ok with what he has had to work with, especially with years where we are extremely thin.  However, the offensive strategy that we have implemented in the last 6-7 years has been simplistic at best, with zone blocking being the mantra that they have entrenched their strategy upon.  It is not a complicated package, and requires far less reads by the lineman and QB.  However, if you will go and read a few of the draft magazines that came out this year predraft, I feel you will be a little shocked at what the NFL scouts said about Ugoh.  In a nutshell it said that he had incredible potential, size worked for him as well as his speed.  It went on to say that most of his success was from pure talent and size, but lacked in coaching and techniques tremendously.  It also said that if chosen by the right team, that had time to develpe and coach technique to Ugoh, that he could have a solid and long NFL career.   That to me spoke volumes....big time. 
Now, as I am going to get some bad comments on this...just bear with me.  With our run game being so solid in the last 5 or 6 years on a normal basis in the SEC, why would we not have a back in the NFL contributing?  I would think we would see something, a 3rd down back, short yardage...something.  However, we do not have that at all.  I know we will, with Dmac, as he is a lock, but how much is coaching and how much is pure God given talent. 

When looking at NFL players, and comparing to if they were coached up at college....few positions are impacted by coaching in itself.  That is QB, WR's(not always), Lineman, & defensive players for the most part......in that I mean DB's and LB's with their ability to read and react. 

So with that said, and not saying it is Gospel, then alot of the players going to the NFL has been a little of both I would say as far as "is it coaching or raw talent?" type question.


Anyways....those are two issues that have seemed to be at the center of discussion for the most part, and my take as to why I feel we do not have the Head Coach that would allow the program at UofA reach its full potential.

[PlaygroundLegend]

Interesting that you brought Georgia's situation up.....Richt benched Stafford much like Nutt did MM....however Stafford still went into games after that...and was always a part of game planning.....I wonder who is set better at QB this upcoming year...>GA or UofA?


Comments: Mustain did not transfer due to anything that happened on the playing field. Both MM and Stafford played a lot during their freshman year, bottom line. I suspect MM would have won the job for good after a spring practice. Just my opinion.

[PlaygroundLegend]

Is Nutt ever going to get the Hogs to the next level? Probably not.
Nutt refuses to make adjustments necessary to winning in the SEC. He is arrogant, over confident and just plain hard headed. He continues to surround himself with yes men instead of competent coaches who are held accountable for their work.

I give him a C. Average in every way. We could do better, believe me.



Comments: I won't argue with things like 'should Shibest be fired' etc etc. I do think the #1 obstacle to Arkansas getting to the next level with the Floridas and LSUs of the world is talent procurement. And as I stated, we are at some disadvantage there here in Arkansas. It's getting better lately with NWA booming and the LR schools producing quality football players again after a dry spell.

[PlaygroundLegend]

This is EXACTLY what makes your bias so obvious.  You believe it was "stupid" to take the email seriuosly.  What you, and many, fail to realize is that many people do take it seriously because it was not just an email to a student-athlete or a "letter to Wally".  They were one of MANY incidents that proved that there was serious anomosity within the staff towards MM and Gus and the Springdale players.  It was confirmation of what they personally experienced the entire time they were there.
Again, there are many incidents we many not even be aware of, but obviously Gus, Mitch and Damian took it very seriously.  Seriously enough to get the heck out of there.
Why...not because of a few "stupid" emails, but because they weren't wanted.  And they were openly treated with distain by several of the staff and the emails were just confirmation of that treatment.


Comments: What is my bias...actually I said the e-mail itself was stupid. Splitting hairs, maybe, but I meant to say the author was stupid and could hardly put a sentence together. So why pay attention to something or someone as crazy as that. Just ignore it. I respect your opinion though.

I commented earlier that there was friction at times. Not all the time, I think people were professional for the most part and did their jobs. I think if Gus had been hired as a position coach as per the original plan, things would have been better. But JFB shoved him into the o-coordinator spot, thus causing problems. MM and DW committed or re-committed only after that, so their enthusiasm for being here was tied to Gus being the o-coordinator. Did he run the offense? Yes. Was it the same offense S-dale ran? No.......It's all water under the bridge. Go back to my first post. JFB started all of this by telling his coach who to hire and fire. I have big problems with that.

[PlaygroundLegend]

Couple of points and then I'm outta here.
1. Somebody asked specifically about the contradictory statements about when HDN knew of the MM email. A. We were trying to deal with it in house (cover it up) and B. I didn't know about it until White told me. No matter how you cut it, there is a lie there. You reply was that you had already answered that question. I spent a good bit of time looking through the entire thread. I can find no place where you answered that specific question. In other words you skirted around it because there is no plausible answer. You've tried to blow off the whole email thing as trivial and  "just delete it" , but you know, I bet you would not feel the same had YOUR son received such and email as MM got. I put you in the same category as the people who say that they absolutely are opposed to the death penalty, but if their daughter were to be kidnapped, raped, and murdered, would they feel the same?


Comments: I'll have to find original response, but have to run now. I'll be logged on again later tonight.

[86jacketstchamps]

Interesting that you brought Georgia's situation up.....Richt benched Stafford much like Nutt did MM....however Stafford still went into games after that...and was always a part of game planning.....I wonder who is set better at QB this upcoming year...>GA or UofA?


Comments: Mustain did not transfer due to anything that happened on the playing field. Both MM and Stafford played a lot during their freshman year, bottom line. I suspect MM would have won the job for good after a spring practice. Just my opinion.

Given a level playing field, I think that is a no-brainer.

[RebelliousHog]

Couple of points and then I'm outta here.
1. Somebody asked specifically about the contradictory statements about when HDN knew of the MM email. A. We were trying to deal with it in house (cover it up) and B. I didn't know about it until White told me. No matter how you cut it, there is a lie there. You reply was that you had already answered that question. I spent a good bit of time looking through the entire thread. I can find no place where you answered that specific question. In other words you skirted around it because there is no plausible answer. You've tried to blow off the whole email thing as trivial and  "just delete it" , but you know, I bet you would not feel the same had YOUR son received such and email as MM got. I put you in the same category as the people who say that they absolutely are opposed to the death penalty, but if their daughter were to be kidnapped, raped, and murdered, would they feel the same?


Comments: I'll have to find original response, but have to run now. I'll be logged on again later tonight.

The question was asked twice. Three times if you count mine. You never gave an answer. As I said before it a point that cannot be defended. He obviously lied. No one knows on which point he lied, but he did. You cannot answer because there is no defense. 

[RebelliousHog]

Couple of points and then I'm outta here.
1. Somebody asked specifically about the contradictory statements about when HDN knew of the MM email. A. We were trying to deal with it in house (cover it up) and B. I didn't know about it until White told me. No matter how you cut it, there is a lie there. You reply was that you had already answered that question. I spent a good bit of time looking through the entire thread. I can find no place where you answered that specific question. In other words you skirted around it because there is no plausible answer. You've tried to blow off the whole email thing as trivial and  "just delete it" , but you know, I bet you would not feel the same had YOUR son received such and email as MM got. I put you in the same category as the people who say that they absolutely are opposed to the death penalty, but if their daughter were to be kidnapped, raped, and murdered, would they feel the same?


Comments: I'll have to find original response, but have to run now. I'll be logged on again later tonight.

The question was asked twice. Three times if you count mine. You never gave an answer. As I said before it a point that cannot be defended. He obviously lied. No one knows on which point he lied, but he did. You cannot answer because there is no defense. 

I noticed you were too busy to comment on my other points.

[oldtimerhog]

Actually, no, but I knew that would get some attention. I hate labels, but if forced upon me, I would probably be labeled a supporter. I will gladly take any questions and attempt to explain why I feel the way I do. Only serious questions, please. I don't live on this board, but will check this thread periodically and answer in due time each question deemed to be sincere, I promise. I don't expect to change a lot of minds, maybe a few, and am not really attempting to do that. It's just an attempt for one fan to logically explain their rationale.
   First, a few of the most common questions.

Q) Did HDN deserve a 'two-year pass'?
A) It was ok by me. I know the NCAA investigation had an effect on recruiting. The debatable part is how much. JFB himself had several lean years in the 70s. I think it was the fair thing to do at the time.
   q) Do other coaches deserve a 'pass'?
   a) Sure. Stan Heath got one, his first two years. No one had any expectations at all then. The pressure picked up in year 3.
   q) What about John Pelphrey?
   a) He won't get one this year. The talent is there to compete at a higher level. If he has a good year this year and meets most reasonable expectations for this team, then yes, he will get time to rebuild. Circumstances dictate that(loss of seven players)

Q) Was the Gus Malzahn thing handled well?
A) I rarely think it's a good idea for JFB to meddle by telling his coaches who to hire and fire. The results are fairly predictable.
Q) Why?
A) I think the head coach should be allowed to run his program as he sees fit and if the AD isn't pleased with the results, then make a change. But don't micromanage...by the way, I'm a big JFB fan. I don't particularly care for his habit of tinkering with assistant coaches, though. Malzahn was a forced 'hire'(as o-coordinator, that is). In the short term, it was great; long term, look what happened
Q) Was Malzahn necessary?
A) I thought Gus brought some nifty innovations. I thought the offense needed some tweaks in certain situations, not a complete overhaul. For example, I thought we were lacking in certain key short yardage situations in 2005(Ex. S Carolina, Vandy) 
   Q) Do you have animosity towards any of the Springdale gang?
   A) No. All parties, at least publicly, have conducted themselves in a professional manner(Malzahn, Nutt, etc)
   Q) What about players?
   Q) It's probably for the best that MM and DW transfer. No animosity towards them at all, they've been cool. They were really only here because Malzahn came anyway.
   Q) What about parents?
   Q) I have big problems with parental over-involvement with their kids, particularly in sports. This is a much bigger problem than just the Arkansas situation.

Q) What about MM's mother?
A) Way too involved. There are proper and improper ways to go about things. An example is when Alex Mortenson was benched just after being told he was going to start the Georgia game in 2005. Chris Mortenson, being a supportive parent, had some concerns. So, Nutt and staff showed some practice film and relayed their concerns that maybe Alex wasn't ready yet after all. I'm sure no one in the Mortenson home was happy, but they understood the rationale behind the decision, at least. In the end, Alex transferred because he felt he would get to play more elsewhere. The point is, they handled their concerns in a professional and discrete way...unlike anything that's happened lately.

Q) Did MM get treated fairly?
A) Yes, otherwise he wouldn't have started his second collegiate game, and eight total. I thought he did a very good job for a frosh. All those Springdale guys saw the field quite a bit.

Q) Do you think HDN told T Prewett to send that e-mail?
A) No
   a) What about the phone calls?
   b) I think Prewett obviously has ties to the Nutts, particularly Danny, and is a strong supporter of the Nutts. This was her own very misguided attempt to show it. Anyone who would type that and hit 'send' needs some help.

Q) What about the e-mail investigation?
A) It's ridiculous. There shouldn't even be an 'investigation'. MM is not the first person to receive a crankpot phone call or e-mail, and won't be the last. Reggie Fish received things like that, and no one is complaing, filing lawsuits, or trying to 'protect' him. And nobody should, he can stand on his own two feet.
   q) So what is the solution?
   a) Hit DELETE or HANG UP the phone
   q) That's all?
   a) The bigger question to me is how people know athletes' e-mail addresses and phone numbers, but that appears to be something that's not terribly secretive so I'm not sure what a good solution is to this. It's not a real problem anyway, it's always been there as a possibility.

Q) Do you think HDN had an affair with Donna Bragg?
A) No, but it doesn't pass the smell test. I don't think anything improper happened, but the perception is bad no matter how you look at it. But Diana Nutt doesn't seem too(publicly) concerned about it, so that's good enough for me. HDN can't go anywhere without somebody knowing it, so I would suspect a credible 'smoking gun' would have emerged by now if this really happened.

Q) Are you concerned about recruiting? What about Ziemba, Burns, Green...low rankings
A) I want all instate kids to go to UA. You have to look at the circumstances behind each case and determine if there is a persistent problem. Lee Ziemba was going to Auburn; I never expected him to come here. His entire family are Auburn people. Why would he go to UA? Only when Ark thumped Aub and started having a strong season did Ziemba start having second thoughts. Of Mustain, Burns, and Mallett, UA wasn't going to get all three. MM committed first, KB and RM started looking elsewhere. KB had a chance to change his mind, but it was very late in the game. Green is the one of those three(Ziemba,Burns, Green) that 'got away', evidently because the coaches envisioned him more as a fullback, H-back than a tailback...looking at the early returns from this year's class, the instate recruiting seems to be going well(so far). Cruz Williams, Matt Hall, the Camden QB. Time will tell, though.

Rankings: I don't anticipate Ark to ever be ranked very high in football recruiting. This state doesn't have the numbers that LA, Tex, FL, and GA have, for example. I don't feel that's admitting defeat but rather acknowledging reality. There is a difference.

Q) Are you pleased with the 2006 season?
A) Yes, very. No one had Arkansas winning 10 games preseason.
   Q) Even how it ended?
   A) I was disappointed in the Wisconsin game, thought that was a 'tossup'.
   Q) What about the passing game?
   A) It can be better, it was good at times. We also need a better FG kicker. These games are too close to be lacking there.
   Q) Do you expect 10 wins again?
   A) Wow, that's tough. Maybe, it's possible. I think 8 is a good number to expect, with 9 very possible and 10 or 11 possible. Of course, injuries to McFadden, Jones, C Dick, or Monk would hurt.

Q) So you have low expectations for Ark football?
A) No, not at all. I have expectations. But to say Ark is on the same playing field with Florida, Texas, or LSU is crazy. Football is nothing but a numbers game; you have to have good players, and lots of them, and those states produce plenty of them. That doesn't mean that Ark can't have a great year.

Q) 'I called that play, brutha'. What about that?
A) That was a joke. The week leading up to the game, there was a lot of the usual chatter about playcalling, etc. Nutt's response was an attempt at humor in reference to that. I happened to be listening to the postgame; when hearing that, I laughed because I knew what the context was. Nutt laughed. Chuck Barrett laughed. Basically, it was a victorious locker room and people were enjoying it. I thought nothing more about it and am quite amazed at the legs that incident has grown.

Q) What about the future?
A) UA should be good this year. After that, who knows? After losing McFadden and others, there will be a dropoff. I don't know if Nutt would survive or want to survive. I said prior to last season that camps and opinions have been formed, and they probably won't change, which is very unfortunate. And a lot has happened since then. A head coach loses some fans every year that he's at a job anyway, it's natural attrition.

Q) So are you a hard core HDN supporter?
A) No. I hate labels. I look at it more from the big picture. I support the person in the job as much as the person. As Roosevelt said, 'Credit goes to the man in the ring'. The application in a coaching context is that there are a lot of criticisms that are unwarranted and unfounded. It's not a job I would want even for the money they make.

Q) So why does HDN attract so much attention?
A) I think his mannerisms have something to do with that. He's excitable on the sidelines, some like a more low-key persona. The same things that opposing teams' fans notice. Some don't like the conducting of the band. It's all harmless to me, I don't think much about it either way, it's just his personality. Some also see him as too much of a salesman, so the same traits that make him a good locker room motivator hurt him in that regard.

You are one crazy playground legend!

[dacskc]

Do you not believe something that fails the "smell test" should be investigated by someone other than the person who emitted the odor?

Comments: No, I stated that I didn't feel an e-mail deserved an investigation at all and the recipient of said e-mail should just ignore it. Hit delete or hang up the phone. That e-mail was so stupid how can you take it seriously.An obvious crankpot who could hardly put a sentence together .

And what person do we know who fits this bill?

In my mind, anything fishy deserves an investigation. I believe that through all this mess we have learned that the NCAA bylaws state that a Coach has an obligation to his players, to see that they are treated in a respectful manner. (paraphrasing) When that Email was received, red flags went up all over for MM and his family. There were things contained in it that spoke to them that this was not the work of some "crazy crackpot", but of someone with inside info of things that had happened and things to come. If you got up one morning and received an email that stated later today, you'd be called on the carpet at work with several other employees in attendance, (Employees who were called by name)and then, when you got to work that very thing came to pass, would you blow it off? Or, would you suspect the crackpot got the word from the boss? If the NCAA says that coaches are obligated to treat players respectfully, and to protect them,
then YES it should be investigated. A coach shouldn't behave this way, and just because you THINK he didn't do doesn't make it a fact, conversely, just because I THINK he DID do doesn't make it a fact. How is this discrepancy cleared up? I N V E S T I G A T I O N .

[PlaygroundLegend]

1. Somebody asked specifically about the contradictory statements about when HDN knew of the MM email. A. We were trying to deal with it in house (cover it up) and B. I didn't know about it until White told me. No matter how you cut it, there is a lie there. You reply was that you had already answered that question. I spent a good bit of time looking through the entire thread. I can find no place where you answered that specific question. In other words you skirted around it because there is no plausible answer. You've tried to blow off the whole email thing as trivial and  "just delete it" , but you know, I bet you would not feel the same had YOUR son received such and email as MM got. I put you in the same category as the people who say that they absolutely are opposed to the death penalty, but if their daughter were to be kidnapped, raped, and murdered, would they feel the same?


Comments: I tried to answer in several different ways similar questions...my previous response basically said that it was going into too much detail about the e-mail...this is new ground and there were no procedures within the UA for handling it(not to mention, 'should' it be handled?'...I didn't really care about dates/times, what the chancellor knew, what the coach knew. Maybe they had better things to do?...I also wondered if the Chancellor of the entire UA-Fayetteville should be dealing with such matters, especially when other athletes such as Reggie Fish have received similar 'hate mail' and didn't ask for any special treatment...I also said that yes, I was a parent, and if my son received something like that, if he even told me about it, I would tell him what he probably already figured out by then, that there were a lot of idiots in the world. Ignore it and rise above it.

[PlaygroundLegend]

2. I haven't seen this point asked. MM apologized to HDN for the dork remark. Yet HDN made no comment about it to anyone, even stating that he had not read the book and wasn't REALLY that concerned about it. Yet MM is subjected to a virtual snatching from a game, is never given a chance to redeem himself, and is subjected to a "Code Red" by players on the team.  Why didn't HDN come out at the moment of apology by MM and say, "Mitch has apologized, it's over, let's go play ball now"?


Comments: MM was removed from the game at South Carolina after a series of games where he played less than his best and appeared distracted, and also because Casey Dick had performed well when he played, and had practiced well, and the coach felt he deserved a chance. MM played most of the year, Dick played the last quarter of the season....MM had received extra attention, of course, as a player of his stature so there might have been some resentment from some players already, and the book's release brought things to a head; the players led by Sam O. thought MM should apologize for what was in the book. You could say the coach told them to it(just like sending an e-mail) or you can say the players acted on their own. Judge for yourself....I would like to point out that what you suggested did actually happen. The coach instructed the team that MM had apologized, the team should be happy now, and he didn't want anyone bothering MM. Move forward. If my memory is faulty, please correct me.

[PlaygroundLegend]

3. You simply strike me as a apologist for HDN. While lots of your answers are logical, your bottom line is that everybody against HDN is wrong and we should support him simply because he is the COACH.

Comments: I don't want to be an apologist for anyone, I've never met H Nutt or any of the Nutts, or know anyone in the UA athletic department. I did quote Roosevelt 'credit goes to the man in the ring' and said I support the guy who's actually trying to do it, and that a lot of criticism is unwarranted. I try to be fair, maybe too much. Put myself in someone else's shoes......if you read this entire thread, there are several times where I've agreed with people and/or criticized H Nutt; one example was my complaining about a couple of crappy bowl performances where we were the better team(Las Vegas and Music City Bowls).

[PlaygroundLegend]

4. You refer to the "I called that play, Chuck" incident as just after game fun. Go to  http://woopig.net/board/index.php?PHPSESSID=488e1377f0deb78aff030f7f501e61b9&topic=55036.0

and listen closely. Does that sound like a man who is not throwing back smack in the face of criticism?



Comments: No need, I was actually listening to the postgame that day(I don't always catch all of it) and heard it firsthand. My reaction was completely different than some here. Yes, my immediate reaction was it was a humorous reference to playcalling criticism from that week and I chuckled. The coach and C Barrett was laughing at the time so I see no reason to take it more seriously than that. Enjoy the win.

[PlaygroundLegend]

The whole idea that Arkansas just cannot compete with the big boys because we can't recruit like they can. Ar. is small, Fayetteville is backwards, whatever. Recruiting is by COACHES. What has Lincoln, Nebraska got that we don't? What has Madison, Wisconsin got that we don't? At various time those schools had a RECRUITING COACH. Ar. really never has. JFB was the last we had that was close. Holtz was not. Hatfield recruited for the option at a time the option was fading out. The coaches between Hatfield and HDN were hardly coaches, much less recruiters. HDN has shown the same mentality. "Poor pitiful us. We just can't recruit to Arkansas". Well, a RECRUITER could. We've just never had one.

Comments: I don't believe Ark is backwards, although it has that reputation still to some degree. Fayetteville and NWA is one of the most thriving places in America right now...Nebraska does have a historically great program, although they haven't done much lately. I said earlier that there might exist an A++ coach who could whiz-bang recruit(and also coach) and get us to a more elite level, just wasn't sure if I wanted to get rid of the good coach we have now to roll that dice and try somebody else. Neb got the tradition going years and years ago and it fed itself for a long time until Osborne left...Wisconsin, historically we are better than them, and even lately. Yes, I realize they beat us last year 17-14........I agree wholeheartedly about recruiting. Ark needs to be great there to compete with the big boys every year, and HDN is good, not great. Stan Heath was a great recruiter, but HDN could coach circles around him. Heath's guys didn't play hard for him night-in and night-out. I would say HDN is a good combination of coaching and recruiting. I would give him a A for motivation and a B for recruiting for a B+ total.

[PlaygroundLegend]

Unfortunately, this answer demonstrates exactly the problem with HDN and his defenders. They think defeatism is fine if you call it  realism . They think the U of A is slightly above second -rate status. They think Arkansas is only a little better than Mississippi in all areas of life. They are content to stay that way.

No one should doubt that this is a fight between those of us who think a school with the heritage and prestige and potential of the U of A can and should go to the next level in all areas , including football. It is as simple as that. You have to be on one side or the other. No one should doubt that it is time to choose sides and throw down in the fight, and that all this "reasonable explaining" is just an effort to buy time for the status-quo.  This is truly us against them...The U of A can's vs. the U of A cant's. Can's believe we should bring in the resources and minds and talents necessary to compete with the finest. I'm proud to be a Can. What are you proud of ... your B or C man ?

Moving to the SEC was supposed to cultivate our desire to go to the next level. Now you argue that  a B or C coach is all we should ask for.  Fans like you will keep us headed toward the Murray State's and not toward the Florida's , in my opinion. 

I am frightened for the program that that is all you want for it. What do you think your attitude says to the players. I can tell you what it says to potential recruits..."If you want success boy, go to USC". "If you want to be in HDN's cultish family of mediocre accepting  fans.. come to Arkansas."

For me , bring in those guns- for -hire as soon as you can.



Comments: Let me try to summarize; you want us to be better than we are. I would like to be a Top 10 program every year too. So we do agree on something....you exaggerated a bit to make your point, at least what I tried to say; I never said being slightly above Mississippi, or thought we were second rate. But I think I captured the gyst of what you're saying.....I just think there are reasons why a school like Kansas can be a power in basketball but never in football. Kentucky is the same. They have passionate fans like we do. We're much better off than they because we're a historical Top 25 program in football(according to alltime AP polls) and Top 15 in basketball. I, for one, am happy with that but yes, I acknowledge we can do even better and keep trying to get to #1 in both. One thing we can all agree on: there's always room for improvement.

Maybe a different approach would work better. Getting specific, if HDN was gone, who would you like to see as football coach, and why, and how do you think this individual would get us to the level you're referring to?

[PlaygroundLegend]

Whether Malzahn was originally intended to be a position coach is irrelevant.  The fact is he was hired as the offensive coordinator and that is what was sold to the fans, players and the coaching staff. 
Did he run "his offense?"  No he did not.  As Nutt said, he added a "few wrinkles."  You don't pay someone $150K a year for "wrinkles."
The fact is, what Malzahn (and the entire state) was told his job would be and what it actually ended up being were two completely different things.  And don't ever forget that not only did three Springdale players jump on board because of those "promises" of change, but so did 4-5 other recruits.  And the fans forgave TWO LOSING SEASONS!!!! 
After Malzahn was hired and the players were signed sealed and delivered, the staff began their campaign.
Every bit of the discontent that is present in this program right now is a direct result of the promises that were made and broken...promises made to Malzahn, the players and the fans.
Unfortunately, even the "darksiders" have forgotten those broken promises because of the very obvious mistreatment of Malzahn and the Springdale players.


Comments: No argument with any of that. Malzahn was definitely not running 'his' offense. People jumped on board at least partly because of him and his system. No question.

The only thing I would add to that is, and I love JFB for all he's done, but if you want to point fingers, I think you should start there. He pushed the first domino down(forcing Nutt to hire Gus, and as a O-coordinator) and from that point on events transpired and everybody acted in a very predictable manner(Nutt,Malzahn,MM,Herring,Murkuson,other football players,B Campbell, etc etc), human nature being what it is. So, I don't take sides, and I don't blame anyone more than the other. That's where I differ with some here; they blame Nutt, whereas I blame all equally. That, and I feel the head coach has a right to run his program as he sees fit, and JFB has a legendary reputation for meddling.

[PlaygroundLegend]

then YES it should be investigated. A coach shouldn't behave this way, and just because you THINK he didn't do doesn't make it a fact, conversely, just because I THINK he DID do doesn't make it a fact. How is this discrepancy cleared up? I N V E S T I G A T I O N .


Comments: Fair enough, but still no one is talking about Reggie Fish who also received hate mail. No one is taking up for him, so Nutt is slacking again. So there has to be an investigation to determine who sent it, see that they're punished appropriately, and determine if the perpetrator was coerced or paid to do it by someone else. And I don't mention the other athletes over time who have been harassed in one form or another. We know this is not the first two instances of things of this nature.

Do we really want to go down this road? If you say yes, I respectfully disagree. That's ok.

[riccoar]

Anybody that accepts mediocrity should become an ASU fan.  We can recruit with any school in America, but we don't.  Why?  Because people have bought the mentality of simply looking at the task, deciding it to be impossible, and trying to be a waste of time.  BULLSH*T!  Would you rather a coach say, "We're going after the best, we may not land them, but we will at least try."  OR  "No kid is gonna come to North West Arkansas to watch the leaves change when he can be living it up on the beach in California or Florida."  There is absolutely no reason to come off a 10-4 year and finish 10th in recruiting in the SEC.  Not to mention losing the top three instate prospects.  Houston Nutt's lack of recruiting should be reason enough to show him the door.  What happens in 2008 when some more juniors leave early and you start trying to pencil in replacements from last years 30 something ranked recruiting class?  The answer is a season like 2004 or 2005.

[RebelliousHog]

1. Somebody asked specifically about the contradictory statements about when HDN knew of the MM email. A. We were trying to deal with it in house (cover it up) and B. I didn't know about it until White told me. No matter how you cut it, there is a lie there. You reply was that you had already answered that question. I spent a good bit of time looking through the entire thread. I can find no place where you answered that specific question. In other words you skirted around it because there is no plausible answer. You've tried to blow off the whole email thing as trivial and  "just delete it" , but you know, I bet you would not feel the same had YOUR son received such and email as MM got. I put you in the same category as the people who say that they absolutely are opposed to the death penalty, but if their daughter were to be kidnapped, raped, and murdered, would they feel the same?


Comments: I tried to answer in several different ways similar questions...my previous response basically said that it was going into too much detail about the e-mail...this is new ground and there were no procedures within the UA for handling it(not to mention, 'should' it be handled?'...I didn't really care about dates/times, what the chancellor knew, what the coach knew. Maybe they had better things to do?...I also wondered if the Chancellor of the entire UA-Fayetteville should be dealing with such matters, especially when other athletes such as Reggie Fish have received similar 'hate mail' and didn't ask for any special treatment...I also said that yes, I was a parent, and if my son received something like that, if he even told me about it, I would tell him what he probably already figured out by then, that there were a lot of idiots in the world. Ignore it and rise above it.

Wrong. You have never tried to answer the specific question of: how do you explain that HDN lied about the reference to when he found out about the email? A) we were dealing with it in house  B) I found out when White told me (after White was informed by Beck). This is an issue you never answer. You skirt it, but never answer.


So it doesn't matter to you that HDN lied? He has better things to do, so lying is OK?

OK, mods, it's time to trash this thread. This guy is a apologizer for HDN. Nothing less. No matter what HDN does, it's going to be explained away. I wash my hands of this attempt to explain the unexplainable.

[dacskc]

then YES it should be investigated. A coach shouldn't behave this way, and just because you THINK he didn't do doesn't make it a fact, conversely, just because I THINK he DID do doesn't make it a fact. How is this discrepancy cleared up? I N V E S T I G A T I O N .


Comments: Fair enough, but still no one is talking about Reggie Fish who also received hate mail. No one is taking up for him, so Nutt is slacking again. So there has to be an investigation to determine who sent it, see that they're punished appropriately, and determine if the perpetrator was coerced or paid to do it by someone else. And I don't mention the other athletes over time who have been harassed in one form or another. We know this is not the first two instances of things of this nature.

Do we really want to go down this road? If you say yes, I respectfully disagree. That's ok.

Any hate mail should be looked at seriously. But in reference to the Fish/Rojo hate mail....THEY WERE NOT SENT BY SOMEONE WITH OBVIOUS TIES TO THE COACH! Can you see how that makes a difference? Let's say John Doe from Little Rock sent those emails to the two players previously mentioned. The parents looked at them and they were full of insults, but nothing that said "I'd hate to be you tomorrow when Butu gets hold of you."
If that sort of thing were contained therein, then John Doe from the Rock is gonna be checked into to see if there were texts that passed between him and "someone in the know" prior to the sending of the message. These two situations (while both are detestable) are apples and oranges.

Should Nixon have not been investigated simply because those were "friends of his" that orchestrated that break in, and some people believed he "couldn't have known about it?"
Does HDN get a free pass simply because of who he is?

[jwdento3]

1. Somebody asked specifically about the contradictory statements about when HDN knew of the MM email. A. We were trying to deal with it in house (cover it up) and B. I didn't know about it until White told me. No matter how you cut it, there is a lie there. You reply was that you had already answered that question. I spent a good bit of time looking through the entire thread. I can find no place where you answered that specific question. In other words you skirted around it because there is no plausible answer. You've tried to blow off the whole email thing as trivial and  "just delete it" , but you know, I bet you would not feel the same had YOUR son received such and email as MM got. I put you in the same category as the people who say that they absolutely are opposed to the death penalty, but if their daughter were to be kidnapped, raped, and murdered, would they feel the same?


Comments: I tried to answer in several different ways similar questions...my previous response basically said that it was going into too much detail about the e-mail...this is new ground and there were no procedures within the UA for handling it(not to mention, 'should' it be handled?'...I didn't really care about dates/times, what the chancellor knew, what the coach knew. Maybe they had better things to do?...I also wondered if the Chancellor of the entire UA-Fayetteville should be dealing with such matters, especially when other athletes such as Reggie Fish have received similar 'hate mail' and didn't ask for any special treatment...I also said that yes, I was a parent, and if my son received something like that, if he even told me about it, I would tell him what he probably already figured out by then, that there were a lot of idiots in the world. Ignore it and rise above it.

Wrong. You have never tried to answer the specific question of: how do you explain that HDN lied about the reference to when he found out about the email? A) we were dealing with it in house  B) I found out when White told me (after White was informed by Beck). This is an issue you never answer. You skirt it, but never answer.


So it doesn't matter to you that HDN lied? He has better things to do, so lying is OK?

OK, mods, it's time to trash this thread. This guy is a apologizer for HDN. Nothing less. No matter what HDN does, it's going to be explained away. I wash my hands of this attempt to explain the unexplainable.

Simmer down now, gunpowder...this has been one of the most rational HDN threads in MMQB.

You have to wait until he takes your bait before you can call him an HDN apologist.  Besides, you've already answered your own question:  he said two different things so he must have contradicted himself at one point.

[PlaygroundLegend]

Anybody that accepts mediocrity should become an ASU fan.  We can recruit with any school in America, but we don't.  Why?  Because people have bought the mentality of simply looking at the task, deciding it to be impossible, and trying to be a waste of time.  BULLSH*T!  Would you rather a coach say, "We're going after the best, we may not land them, but we will at least try."  OR  "No kid is gonna come to North West Arkansas to watch the leaves change when he can be living it up on the beach in California or Florida."  There is absolutely no reason to come off a 10-4 year and finish 10th in recruiting in the SEC.  Not to mention losing the top three instate prospects.  Houston Nutt's lack of recruiting should be reason enough to show him the door.  What happens in 2008 when some more juniors leave early and you start trying to pencil in replacements from last years 30 something ranked recruiting class?  The answer is a season like 2004 or 2005


Comments: I don't agree at all that the Hogs have been mediocre in football in the past nine years. They've won the West twice, and tied for it another time but didn't go to Atlanta. They've played in several New Year's Day bowl games. That's pretty good....we can do better, but then again, I'll always say that....my main contention, though, with what you said was 'we can recruit with anyone in America'. I just don't see that, at all. Again, you would 'defeatism', I say 'realism'. The state of Arkansas has 2.8mm; the Dallas metro area alone has appx that many people. It's basic math.....I hope for the best, but keep it real.

[riccoar]

You simply have lower expectations and will accept what Schaeffer, Barrett, and Kirk feed you.  You bring in the right coach with a balanced attack and the recruits will come.  You can only recruit so many QB's and tell them were going to pass more until the next guy catches on a goes to Auburn.  Look at HDN's overall SEC record and spin that as anything other than mediocre.

[PlaygroundLegend]

Wrong. You have never tried to answer the specific question of: how do you explain that HDN lied about the reference to when he found out about the email? A) we were dealing with it in house  B) I found out when White told me (after White was informed by Beck). This is an issue you never answer. You skirt it, but never answer.


So it doesn't matter to you that HDN lied? He has better things to do, so lying is OK?

OK, mods, it's time to trash this thread. This guy is a apologizer for HDN. Nothing less. No matter what HDN does, it's going to be explained away. I wash my hands of this attempt to explain the unexplainable.


Comments: If Nutt is guilty of something, it's not doing anything about it; but then again, I would have done the same thing. I'm sorry, I just don't equate an e-mail to something like pulling a knife on someone....Very low priority, I would have forgot about it. I just don't see how you can prove, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that H Nutt gave more than two seconds worth of thought to this matter until January. You can say he 'knew' about it; another guy can say he was made aware of it then forgot about it until January. This is my theory: there may (or may not) have been an awareness that it existed, but if there was, it was an extreme backburner issue. Out of sight, out of mind. No one has ever handled anything like this before(that we know about) and I'm sure it was a low priority, with finals, bowl game preparations, and recruiting. It would be a very, very low priority, if it was on the radar screen at all. If you want to believe that Nutt issued a bald-faced lie, that's fine, I'm not prepared to do that.

As for your last statement, I don't live on this board but from my readings this is one of the few threads that hasn't disintegrated into a senseless name-calling exercise, and several have commented that they appreciated it. An adult, intelligent discussion. I would think the mods would be encouraging more of that, not less.

[PlaygroundLegend]

OK, mods, it's time to trash this thread. This guy is a apologizer for HDN. Nothing less. No matter what HDN does, it's going to be explained away. I wash my hands of this attempt to explain the unexplainable


Comments: I've pointed out several things about Nutt that bug me, if you read the entire thread. Here's another one, just to prove to you that I don't defend everything he does...before the 2003 Independence Bowl, there was some questioning about how the Hogs played in some previous bowls(Vegas, Music City). Hogs played very well, dominated Missouri, afterwards in some interviews Nutt said something like 'you guys can't bring that up anymore' (the bowl performances). That rubbed me completely the wrong way at the time. It pained me deeply to watch a bunch of listless Hogs in Las Vegas, getting drubbed by a average team, and it especially pained me to get drubbed by Minnesota because my fiance and I drove over there, and was fuming all the way home 'did I come all the way over here to watch this mess?' So, no, coach, one good game in a bowl doesn't mean that it erases the others that were crappy. Good game, but let it go.

[PlaygroundLegend]

Any hate mail should be looked at seriously. But in reference to the Fish/Rojo hate mail....THEY WERE NOT SENT BY SOMEONE WITH OBVIOUS TIES TO THE COACH! Can you see how that makes a difference? Let's say John Doe from Little Rock sent those emails to the two players previously mentioned. The parents looked at them and they were full of insults, but nothing that said "I'd hate to be you tomorrow when Butu gets hold of you."
If that sort of thing were contained therein, then John Doe from the Rock is gonna be checked into to see if there were texts that passed between him and "someone in the know" prior to the sending of the message. These two situations (while both are detestable) are apples and oranges.

Should Nixon have not been investigated simply because those were "friends of his" that orchestrated that break in, and some people believed he "couldn't have known about it?"
Does HDN get a free pass simply because of who he is?



Comments: Yes, I see the difference, it's in the area of perception. If someone with 'ties' is discovered to be the sender, then one could wonder if they were prodded to do it. I've stated I don't believe so, others believe that did happen. And to me, that's the only thing that matters, if she was put up to it.

Woodward discovered the initials 'HH' and 'WH' on some things the burglars had and proved it to be Howard Hunt in the White House. There was hard evidence that was proved in the reporting that led the reporters that direction, it wasn't just circumstantial 'let's see if we get Nixon with this'.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned: for those of you who want an 'investigation', what is stopping it? The media can do it. Or a fan could do it, using more of the FOI thing. It would seem enough of you feel strongly enough about it, why not take matters into your own hands?

[PlaygroundLegend]

You simply have lower expectations and will accept what Schaeffer, Barrett, and Kirk feed you.  You bring in the right coach with a balanced attack and the recruits will come.  You can only recruit so many QB's and tell them were going to pass more until the next guy catches on a goes to Auburn.  Look at HDN's overall SEC record and spin that as anything other than mediocre.


Comments: I may be offbase, but I can assure you no one in the media dictates my opinion. Chuck is a very good play-by-play guy, but I don't care for his show that much; he's too rude to some of the callers and cuts them off. Rainwater rarely does that, he's a good guy. When is Otis on? I like Rick Shaeffer, he's very knowledgable about the Hogs; and he's not only a glass-half-full guy, he's a glass-7/8-full guy. But I'd much rather listen to a positive person than a negative one any day. Being a grouch is no way to go through life. But Rick does get carried away sometimes; I think he's an optimist, but I wonder sometimes how much is how he really feels and how much of it is because he feels somewhat obligated to take up for the athletic department because he worked there for 20+ years.

I agree with your statement about QBs. We have to demonstrate over a period of years a balanced attack to attract a 'great' QB who can throw the ball. We'll get good ones like C Dick,sure. And it doesn't have to be Air Coryell, but if we can get back to the Stoerner-led balanced offense, where Clint was throwing for 2000+ yards and 20+ TDs, and keep it for 3-4-5 years in a row, it will make it easier to land future QBs. There wasn't a thing wrong with the 1998-99 offense.

[PlaygroundLegend]

You simply have lower expectations and will accept what Schaeffer, Barrett, and Kirk feed you.  You bring in the right coach with a balanced attack and the recruits will come.  You can only recruit so many QB's and tell them were going to pass more until the next guy catches on a goes to Auburn.  Look at HDN's overall SEC record and spin that as anything other than mediocre.


Comments: Let me try this in two different ways.

1) Every coach at Miami since 1982 has won a national championship, except Butch Davis, who was rebuilding from probation. That includes Howard Schnellenberger, Jimmy Johnson, Dennis Erickson, Davis, and Larry Coker. The coaches at Arkansas in same timeframe included Holtz, Hatfield, Ford, and Nutt, but they won 0 championships. If I understand your logic correctly, the reason for this is because Miami had better coaches than Arkansas, who either coached better, worked at recruiting harder, were better organized, etc etc

No, I submit to you that's crazy, and the reason is obvious. South Florida is a recruiting hotbed. Simple as that.


2) Darrell Royal versus Frank Broyles. Frank won his share, but the vast majority of the time, Royal's Longhorns prevailed. By your logic, this proves Royal was the better coach.

I say, rubbish. I actually think Broyles was the better coach, but Royal had some advantages coaching at Texas with a wealth of, well, everything. Especially players. Texas produces a gazillion football players to choose from each year, more than Arkansas. Here's your reason for Texas's sizeable advantage over Ark in the all-time head-to-head record. Simple as that.


I choose to be more fair to my coaches than that. Texas has sizeable advantages over Arkansas, it's not admitting defeat to simply acknowledge that.

[PlaygroundLegend]

This thread that I started has about petered out. I've enjoyed it, it's been a good discussion. I'm out for the weekend, but will check it again sometime next week.

Til then...FORE!

[riccoar]

Yes, Florida and Texas are hotbeds for recruiting.  However, both schools have the same number of scholarships as we do.  Meaning they can only sign so many recruits and I'm guessing that the top three recruits from Florida or Texas usually don't end up going elsewhere very often if ever.

[dacskc]

Any hate mail should be looked at seriously. But in reference to the Fish/Rojo hate mail....THEY WERE NOT SENT BY SOMEONE WITH OBVIOUS TIES TO THE COACH! Can you see how that makes a difference? Let's say John Doe from Little Rock sent those emails to the two players previously mentioned. The parents looked at them and they were full of insults, but nothing that said "I'd hate to be you tomorrow when Butu gets hold of you."
If that sort of thing were contained therein, then John Doe from the Rock is gonna be checked into to see if there were texts that passed between him and "someone in the know" prior to the sending of the message. These two situations (while both are detestable) are apples and oranges.

Should Nixon have not been investigated simply because those were "friends of his" that orchestrated that break in, and some people believed he "couldn't have known about it?"
Does HDN get a free pass simply because of who he is?



Comments: Yes, I see the difference, it's in the area of perception. If someone with 'ties' is discovered to be the sender, then one could wonder if they were prodded to do it. I've stated I don't believe so, others believe that did happen. And to me, that's the only thing that matters, if she was put up to it.

Woodward discovered the initials 'HH' and 'WH' on some things the burglars had and proved it to be Howard Hunt in the White House. There was hard evidence that was proved in the reporting that led the reporters that direction, it wasn't just circumstantial 'let's see if we get Nixon with this'.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned: for those of you who want an 'investigation', what is stopping it? The media can do it. Or a fan could do it, using more of the FOI thing. It would seem enough of you feel strongly enough about it, why not take matters into your own hands?

Ummmm..... have you been paying attention? I think that's what's been happening. We HAVE been trying to force an investigation, and an effort to do so is STILL underway. BTW, how is tying Howard Hunt to Nixon any different than tying booster Teresa Prewett to our coach? You stated yourself that was "hard evidence" because it was tied to the White House, if memory serves me correctly, being a booster and FOD (friend of Dale) ties you to the football program. I think you just made an argument against your own argument.

[dacskc]

Q:  Rick, is that you?

A:  Listen Mister, I called that spin brotha!

Naw!!! Can't be Rick!, otherwise he would have to post not as "playgroundlegend", but as "FantasticSam'sLegend".

[PlaygroundLegend]

Ummmm..... have you been paying attention? I think that's what's been happening. We HAVE been trying to force an investigation, and an effort to do so is STILL underway. BTW, how is tying Howard Hunt to Nixon any different than tying booster Teresa Prewett to our coach? You stated yourself that was "hard evidence" because it was tied to the White House, if memory serves me correctly, being a booster and FOD (friend of Dale) ties you to the football program. I think you just made an argument against your own argument.


Comments: Actually, after a weekend of review, I now conclude that comparing the e-mail thing to Watergate is silly and I'm not sure why I even took a stab at that one.

[PlaygroundLegend]

Q:  Rick, is that you?

A:  Listen Mister, I called that spin brotha!


Comments: No, not Rick here. Actually, if Rick posted here I would think it would have leaked out by now.