Recruiting: What's the difference between Arkansas and Alabama

[silvertip]

Alabama is a small state, Arkansas is smaller.  Alabama has two Universities to fight over local kids, we have no instate competition.  Is it 100% coaching, how come Auburn is very strong, and we are not.  I know Alabama hasn't been great recently, but with Saban I have a feeling the "Tide" is about to turn.  If two Alabama schools can do it, why can't we?  Alabama's history, blah, blah, blah. 

fro one thing-- Alabama has about 80 plus D-1 signees while Arkansas has about 1/3 of that.

And how many D-1 FB players do you reckon Tenn, Nebraska, West Virginia turn out ??

[pcrouch3809]

Alabama is able to recruit out of state.  A majority of the country won't even consider playing football in an imbred state.  Aparently, Arkansas has more imbreds than any other state.

[sowmonella]

History has proven that Alabama has been willing to pay up for top recruits.

[King of the Burbs]

At this point under HDN, Arkansas has a winning record against both Auburn and Alabama.  The difference I guess would be that Bama just paid $4MM a year just to try to catch up.

We may have a winning record, but they Auburn has more wins.  Alabama's about to win more too.  It's about TOTAL WINS.  TOTAL WINS.  That is horrible logic.

Since recruiting services started ranking recruits and different universities' recruiting classes, I doubt there has been one time in which Arkansas "out-recruited" Alabama.  However, Arkansas holds a winning record over Alabama and Auburn, and Arkansas has a better record than Alabama since Nutt has been here.

Arkansas since 1998:  67-41
Alabama since 1998:  63-48

They can keep "out-recruiting" us, just as long as Arkansas keeps the upperhand in the head-to-head matchup and overall record!

[Hogs-n-Roses]

It is known nationwide that Bama has a 100% total commitment to football!!! No excuses will do,  even in years when they had a real cloud, Real top notch recruits like Brodie Croyle sign to go there.

[Porkem]

If Butch Davis was here...we wouldn't have our best players leaving the state.  Would you want to play for a dork like Dale?

AR can recruit top 10 classes in: Basketball, Baseball, & Track in the same year.

The only reason we don't in football is the HC.

It has nothing to do with the state or the school.

Can you just imagine what Butch Davis could do with recruiting at Arkansas? Would blow the doors off of HDN's efforts in my opinion.

[NWASooner]

Like an early poster said, Bama is bigger and has better high school talent. 

Also, both Bama and Auburn have shown the ability to recruit outside their own state.  Arkansas hasn't.

[mword]

The coaches - Saben is an actual coach who has won a NC and Nutt is a wanna that will never amount to anything but mediocrity.

[sowmonella]

It is known nationwide that Bama has a 100% total commitment to football!!! No excuses will do,  even in years when they had a real cloud, Real top notch recruits like Brodie Croyle sign to go there.

I don't believe Brodie Croyle was a big time recruit.

[camelt]

It is known nationwide that Bama has a 100% total commitment to football!!! No excuses will do,  even in years when they had a real cloud, Real top notch recruits like Brodie Croyle sign to go there.

I don't believe Brodie Croyle was a big time recruit.

Auctually he was a top 3 QB in the country when he came out of Alabama HS and national player of the year by one service.

[NWASooner]

I don't believe Brodie Croyle was a big time recruit.

You believe wrong.

[camelt]

At this point under HDN, Arkansas has a winning record against both Auburn and Alabama.  The difference I guess would be that Bama just paid $4MM a year just to try to catch up.

We may have a winning record, but they Auburn has more wins.  Alabama's about to win more too.  It's about TOTAL WINS.  TOTAL WINS.  That is horrible logic.

Since recruiting services started ranking recruits and different universities' recruiting classes, I doubt there has been one time in which Arkansas "out-recruited" Alabama.  However, Arkansas holds a winning record over Alabama and Auburn, and Arkansas has a better record than Alabama since Nutt has been here.

Arkansas since 1998:  67-41
Alabama since 1998:  63-48

They can keep "out-recruiting" us, just as long as Arkansas keeps the upperhand in the head-to-head matchup and overall record!

Good post.  You can argue that the top 4-5 classes in the recruiting rankings are stronger than  the 30th recruiting class on a given year.  But from 6-30 there is really no difference.  If you look at a typical NFL draft you will find as many 2 and three star atheltes in the first two rounds as you will see 5 star athelts.     

[Hogs-n-Roses]

I was thinking that this was the case but was unsure of the exact status he carried, I thought I had him mixed up with Jamarcus Russell for a minute. I do remember that he was Bama all the way.

[sowmonella]

It is known nationwide that Bama has a 100% total commitment to football!!! No excuses will do,  even in years when they had a real cloud, Real top notch recruits like Brodie Croyle sign to go there.

I don't believe Brodie Croyle was a big time recruit.

Auctually he was a top 3 QB in the country when he came out of Alabama HS and national player of the year by one service.

I stand corrected. I didn't remember that.

[TX HOG]

Alabama has twice as many people as Arkansas, and their high school football is better.

And they have a little richer tradition in Football than we do...just fact

Players choose a school based on the coach much more than the schools tradition.  

[Nashville Fan]

How many top 10 recruiting classes have we had in the past 5 coaches?

Are you talking baseball, track, basketball, or football? Where there is a will there is a way. Past sins do not condon current behavior.

[BartIV]

Kids play for the coach in the beginning, not the school.  Unless you live in Alabama, kids don't care about the school. Its when a coach comes and sales the school/himself to the kid.  We have as good a chance at recruiting out of state as anyone, we just need a coach that can sale.

[DeltaBoy]

Bama got a Legend from Arkansas  Bear Bryant
We have failed to get a Legend from them.

While the UA let Bear get out of state to play for BAMA then return to coach at BAMA we were screwing around hiring Frank my best friend beats me and brags about it Broyles.   In the words of Keith Jackson " And Folks the rest is History."

[BartIV]

Bama got a Legend from Arkansas  Bear Bryant
We have failed to get a Legend from them.

While the UA let Bear get out of state to play for BAMA then return to coach at BAMA we were screwing around hiring Frank my best friend beats me and brags about it Broyles.   In the words of Keith Jackson " And Folks the rest is History."

Question is, was Bear Bryant ever considered for the Arkansas job.  I think Alabama was just lucky to find a diamond with Bear Bryant. His previous coaching was not great by any means. The Junction Boys finished like 2-10 i think.

[wholehog92]

They have a superior HS system and a committment unequaled in the U.S. to college football.  They recruit nationwide just in case they don't grow the best talent.  They were willing to pay their football coach more than twice what we are.  We have an AD that stayed 5 years longer and counting than he should have.  I'm not sure what the similarity is come to think of it.

[DeltaBoy]

Bama got a Legend from Arkansas Bear Bryant
We have failed to get a Legend from them.

While the UA let Bear get out of state to play for BAMA then return to coach at BAMA we were screwing around hiring Frank my best friend beats me and brags about it Broyles.   In the words of Keith Jackson " And Folks the rest is History."

Question is, was Bear Bryant ever considered for the Arkansas job.  I think Alabama was just lucky to find a diamond with Bear Bryant. His previous coaching was not great by any means. The Junction Boys finished like 2-10 i think.

The 1st mistake was letting BAMA come to Fordyce and recruit The Bear to play FB for BAMA in the first place.  See Bama was recruiting out of STATE before most UA coachs knew where out of state was!

2nd When we had openings during his Kentucky and AnM days we did not try to get him. 

[Porkerpower]

Alabama is willing to get the best coach in the country to coach their football team to a national championship. Arkansas is the opposite. Mediocrity rules.

Simple, but perfectly stated.

[TX HOG]

Fact:

Bama and Aubrun's last recruiting class.  Only 7 of the 23 4 star players were from the state of Alabama.  That is great out of state recruiting. 

[DeltaBoy]

Our problems go all the way back before Frank was hired as coach at UA. I think we have had that " We're just poor little ole arkansas"

[BustinANutt]

They have twice the population and about four times the African American population. Not racist just true and you all know it. This is the same reason the SEC is the better than the Big 10 and why the Big 12 South will always be better than the Big 12 North.

Also, Auburn is basically in Georgia and is really close to Atlanta, maybe even closer than UGA.

[BartIV]

They have twice the population and about four times the African American population. Not racist just true and you all know it. This is the same reason the SEC is the better than the Big 10 and why the Big 12 South will always be better than the Big 12 North.

Also, Auburn is basically in Georgia and is really close to Atlanta, maybe even closer than UGA.

Its Auburn Alabama, not Auburn Georgia.  Do you think Georgia fans root for Auburn because it is close.

[TX HOG]

They have twice the population and about four times the African American population. Not racist just true and you all know it. This is the same reason the SEC is the better than the Big 10 and why the Big 12 South will always be better than the Big 12 North.

Also, Auburn is basically in Georgia and is really close to Atlanta, maybe even closer than UGA.

So we can't compete?  Ever?  Give up?  What about South Carolina, Nebraska, North Carolina, Illinois, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Virginia, Pitt?  Why do they out-recruit us? 

[BartIV]

They have twice the population and about four times the African American population. Not racist just true and you all know it. This is the same reason the SEC is the better than the Big 10 and why the Big 12 South will always be better than the Big 12 North.

Also, Auburn is basically in Georgia and is really close to Atlanta, maybe even closer than UGA.

So we can't compete?  Ever?  Give up?  What about South Carolina, Nebraska, North Carolina, Illinois, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Virginia, Pitt?  Why do they out-recruit us? 

They have better coachs.

[TX HOG]

They have twice the population and about four times the African American population. Not racist just true and you all know it. This is the same reason the SEC is the better than the Big 10 and why the Big 12 South will always be better than the Big 12 North.

Also, Auburn is basically in Georgia and is really close to Atlanta, maybe even closer than UGA.

So we can't compete?  Ever?  Give up?  What about South Carolina, Nebraska, North Carolina, Illinois, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Virginia, Pitt?  Why do they out-recruit us? 

They have better coachs.

Would they trade us coaches, NOPE!!!!

[DEVIL DOG HOG]

Three reasons: Arkansas - Nutt
                     Alabama - Saban
                     Auburn - Tuberville

[Anybody]

You have to recruit your BEST in-state players first.  It helps to tell the TRUTH and have INTEGRITY in your athletic program.  Why is this so hard for some of you to understand?

[TX HOG]

Three reasons: Arkansas - Nutt
                     Alabama - Saban
                     Auburn - Tuberville

Sounds like some believe geographical location has more to do with recruiting than the coaches. 

[BartIV]

You have to recruit your BEST in-state players first.  It helps to tell the TRUTH and have INTEGRITY in your athletic program.  Why is this so hard for some of you to understand?

I agree. If your top instate recruits are not coming, why would the out of state kids want to come here.

[BustinANutt]

They have twice the population and about four times the African American population. Not racist just true and you all know it. This is the same reason the SEC is the better than the Big 10 and why the Big 12 South will always be better than the Big 12 North.

Also, Auburn is basically in Georgia and is really close to Atlanta, maybe even closer than UGA.

So we can't compete?  Ever?  Give up?  What about South Carolina, Nebraska, North Carolina, Illinois, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Virginia, Pitt?  Why do they attract us? 

Arkansas has 2.6 million people. 16% of the population is A. American.
South Carolina has 5 million people. 30% of those are A. American.
Georgia has 8 million people. 30% of those are A. American.
North Carolina has 8 million people. 22% are A. American.
Virginia has 7 million people. 20% A. American
Illinois has 13 million people. 16% A. American
Penn. has 12 million people. 15% A. American

The only team/state that you have a point on is Nebraska (1.7 million, 5%A.A.)

The great teams come from states with large populations or have an extremely high percentage of A. Americans or both (California, Florida, Texas) 

National Champions for the past ten years have come from a top eight most populous state. (USC, Florida, Texas, Florida State, Ohio State, Michigan) or a state with over one million A. Americans living with in it (Tenn, LSU) The only anomaly is Oklahoma.

[hogfan2286]

They have twice the population and about four times the African American population. Not racist just true and you all know it. This is the same reason the SEC is the better than the Big 10 and why the Big 12 South will always be better than the Big 12 North.

Also, Auburn is basically in Georgia and is really close to Atlanta, maybe even closer than UGA.

So we can't compete?  Ever?  Give up?  What about South Carolina, Nebraska, North Carolina, Illinois, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Virginia, Pitt?  Why do they out-recruit us? 

I think we would beat every team you just listed.

[TX HOG]

Almost all those schools have instate rivals for instate players, which makes it almost equal.  Arkansas is one of very few states that has no major D1 competition for kids.  Woud you rather compete with Arkansas St, or NC State?  Arkansas St. or Clemson/South Carolina?  Arkanasas St. or Univerity of Georgia? Arkansas St. or VT?  Arkansas shoud have a huge advantage on keeping instate kids instate.  For example Auburn and Alabama combined last year had 23 4 star recruits sign, only 7 of the 23 were from the state of Alabama.  Kids go to certain Univesities for the coaches more often than for the University.

[BustinANutt]

Almost all those schools have instate rivals for instate players, which makes it almost equal.  Arkansas is one of very few states that has no major D1 competition for kids.  Woud you rather compete with Arkansas St, or NC State?  Arkansas St. or Clemson/South Carolina?  Arkanasas St. or Univerity of Georgia? Arkansas St. or VT?  Arkansas shoud have a huge advantage on keeping instate kids instate.  For example Auburn and Alabama combined last year had 23 4 star recruits sign, only 7 of the 23 were from the state of Alabama.  Kids go to certain Univesities for the coaches more often than for the University.

UNC has more potential than Arkansas. I would rather share a state of 8 million with a high A. American population than dominate a state with 2.5 million people with an average A. American population.

Also, you say its more about the coach than geography. Alabama has 64 kids from Alabama on its roster and 45 kids from all other states.
Auburn has 33 kids from Alabama, 23 from Georgia, 18 from the Florida panhandle and 14 from everywhere else.
Texas has 94 kids from Texas and 5 from other states
Georgia has 54 kids from Georgia and 46 from other states
Virginia Tech (the team Arkansas thinks it is so much like) has 64 kids from Virginia and 31 kids from other states.

You are right that alot of Big East type schools (Louiville, West Virginia, Rutgers) have had limited success getting kids from all over with a charismatic coach, but the really dominate schools overwelmingly get kids from in state.

[WADHOG]

Alabama is a small state, Arkansas is smaller.  Alabama has two Universities to fight over local kids, we have no instate competition.  Is it 100% coaching, how come Auburn is very strong, and we are not.  I know Alabama hasn't been great recently, but with Saban I have a feeling the "Tide" is about to turn.  If two Alabama schools can do it, why can't we?  Alabama's history, blah, blah, blah. 

About fifty D1 players a year, that's the difference.  Although, I can't believe the number of kids we are letting go. 

[LJHOG]

Alabama has twice as many people as Arkansas, and their high school football is better.

That's my point, twice as many people.  But there are twice as many major universities in Alabama.  Therefore, it should be closer to equal.  Arkansas is starting to produce more and more D1 players.

But rarely do you see both Allbarn and bama really good at the same time.  They tend to run in cycles for in-state talent.  Right now Allbarn is in the lead, but who knows about next year or beyond.  Plus both schools are very close to FL and GA, both good areas for talent in which alot of alum's coach.

[TX HOG]

When recruits are asked why they chose a certain school, it's almost ALWAYS about the coaches.  People complain all the time that these kids don't do to certain schools for the schools, they go because of the coaches.  Coaches get big time recruits to come to thier schools.  Nick Saban would recruit great at Arkansas, because he's a great recruiter.  Plain and simple, coaches close the deal on recruits.

[softballguy8]

Nick Sabin vs Houston Nutt

[bcshog]

Didn't Miami and VT just move to the ACC?  I believe both of those programs have winning philosiphies.

[bphi11ips]

If we ever become a program that is committed to being a national contender, we will be that.

We used to be and we were.  Unless I was dreaming for 30 years.

[swamisez]

Bama has the darksiders over here helping them and everyone else in the country to get the homegrown talent to leave.

[TX HOG]

Bama has the darksiders over here helping them and everyone else in the country to get the homegrown talent to leave.

Who's helping Bama again? 

[DeltaBoy]

We match up stat wise best with Nebraska and seeing what they have done in a nearly Lilly white state the past 35 years leaves the UA from Sugg down to Nuttboy without any excuses! 

[TX HOG]

We match up stat wise best with Nebraska and seeing what they have done in a nearly Lilly white state the past 35 years leaves the UA from Sugg down to Nuttboy without any excuses! 

But they have tradition.  Coaches have NOTHING to do with recruiting.  They must also have a great geographical advantage on Arkansas, because obviously coaches have NOTHING to do with recruiting. 

[djgaffer]

When recruits are asked why they chose a certain school, it's almost ALWAYS about the coaches.  People complain all the time that these kids don't do to certain schools for the schools, they go because of the coaches.  Coaches get big time recruits to come to thier schools.  Nick Saban would recruit great at Arkansas, because he's a great recruiter.  Plain and simple, coaches close the deal on recruits.

By that logic, the players that just won the national title went to Florida not for Florida, but for Ron Zook. 

There is no question that a coaches prestige is a factor in a player's decision to go to a school, but it is one of many factors.  If you could put a coach in a state that prodcues 150 D1 players every year within proximity of his campus.  And then take the same coach and put him in a state that produces 25 players a year.  Most certainly he would be more effective at the football factory state.  That's just a matter of numbers to "choose" from.  To dismiss that that isn't a factor is being unrealistic.

[IMAballHawg]

Almost all those schools have instate rivals for instate players, which makes it almost equal.  Arkansas is one of very few states that has no major D1 competition for kids.  Woud you rather compete with Arkansas St, or NC State?  Arkansas St. or Clemson/South Carolina?  Arkanasas St. or Univerity of Georgia? Arkansas St. or VT?  Arkansas shoud have a huge advantage on keeping instate kids instate.  For example Auburn and Alabama combined last year had 23 4 star recruits sign, only 7 of the 23 were from the state of Alabama.  Kids go to certain Univesities for the coaches more often than for the University.

UNC has more potential than Arkansas. I would rather share a state of 8 million with a high A. American population than dominate a state with 2.5 million people with an average A. American population.

Also, you say its more about the coach than geography. Alabama has 64 kids from Alabama on its roster and 45 kids from all other states.
Auburn has 33 kids from Alabama, 23 from Georgia, 18 from the Florida panhandle and 14 from everywhere else.
Texas has 94 kids from Texas and 5 from other states
Georgia has 54 kids from Georgia and 46 from other states
Virginia Tech (the team Arkansas thinks it is so much like) has 64 kids from Virginia and 31 kids from other states.

You are right that alot of Big East type schools (Louiville, West Virginia, Rutgers) have had limited success getting kids from all over with a charismatic coach, but the really dominate schools overwelmingly get kids from in state.

How does Arkansas roster compare?

[TX HOG]

You are right, many Florida players did go to Florida for Zook, he's a good recruiter.  I understand the disadvantage of having a small population.  I'm not going to settle for that as an excuse.  We can recruit good in basketball, baseball, track.