Recruiting: What's the difference between Arkansas and Alabama

[TX HOG]

Alabama is a small state, Arkansas is smaller.  Alabama has two Universities to fight over local kids, we have no instate competition.  Is it 100% coaching, how come Auburn is very strong, and we are not.  I know Alabama hasn't been great recently, but with Saban I have a feeling the "Tide" is about to turn.  If two Alabama schools can do it, why can't we?  Alabama's history, blah, blah, blah. 

[hogfan2286]

Alabama has twice as many people as Arkansas, and their high school football is better.

[TX HOG]

Alabama has twice as many people as Arkansas, and their high school football is better.

That's my point, twice as many people.  But there are twice as many major universities in Alabama.  Therefore, it should be closer to equal.  Arkansas is starting to produce more and more D1 players.

[HangTenHog]

Alabama gets it done because they have fine players that can play beyond the coaching....

Forrest Gump was from Greenbow Alabama and is a good example.

Oh never mind, we have a Forrest Gump twin coaching at Ark, without the luck (or ping-pong skills).

[TheNuttlessFrontier]

Alabama is a small state, Arkansas is smaller.  Alabama has two Universities to fight over local kids, we have no instate competition.  Is it 100% coaching, how come Auburn is very strong, and we are not.  I know Alabama hasn't been great recently, but with Saban I have a feeling the "Tide" is about to turn.  If two Alabama schools can do it, why can't we?  Alabama's history, blah, blah, blah. 

First of all, I don't believe recruiting has been Bama's problem as much as in-game coaching has been.  Saban is inheriting a good group of football players that, IMHO, would be looking at a 9 or 10 win season even with Shula still there.  However, Alabama has higher expectations for its football program than that.

Secondly, I'm not into the comparison game (aka...comparing our program with other programs).  This seems to be one of the things that Huggers love to do in order to prove to us that our program can't compete consistently on an elite level.  (I know that's not what you're doing here, TX HOG.)

The simple fact is this:  If the committment is there, the winning will be produced...regardless of the program's history or what conference it's in.  Right now, the committment is not there.  The PTB are satisfied with the present state of our football program.  If we ever become a program that is committed to being a national contender, we will be that.

[Since 1894]

1. Larger population - in the state and the surrounding states.

2.  History / Tradition

3.  They have a history in the SEC and they are in the middle of the SEC.

4.  We are new comers to the SEC and we are on the edge of the conference.

JMHO

Be Good

[Nashville Fan]

AR can recruit top 10 classes in: Basketball, Baseball, & Track in the same year.

The only reason we don't in football is the HC.

It has nothing to do with the state or the school.

[Silver Hog]

they have HOPE!

[HangTenHog]

AR can recruit top 10 classes in: Basketball, Baseball, & Track in the same year.

The only reason we don't in football is the HC.

It has nothing to do with the state or the school.

Can you just imagine what Butch Davis could do with recruiting at Arkansas? Would blow the doors off of HDN's efforts in my opinion.

[TX HOG]

1. Larger population - in the state and the surrounding states.

2.  History / Tradition

3.  They have a history in the SEC and they are in the middle of the SEC.

4.  We are new comers to the SEC and we are on the edge of the conference.

JMHO

Be Good

1. We have Louisianna, Tenn, Oklahoma, Texas around us.  Alabama's advantage of being larger is offset by two major universities.

2. History/Tradition, kids go play for the coach more often than the university.

3.  Kids don't care about your history in a conference, all they care is if you are in a certain conference.

4.  Kids don't care about if you are new to a conference, most of these kids were hardly born when we went to the SEC.

I don't by these excuses, IMO.

[HangTenHog]

they have HOPE!

Unfortunately, our only Hope is a town that an ex president is associated with.

I agree with the post though...we have dissension and division. That's something that either side of the aisle can agree with.

[TheNuttlessFrontier]

AR can recruit top 10 classes in: Basketball, Baseball, & Track in the same year.

The only reason we don't in football is the HC.

It has nothing to do with the state or the school.

Great point, Nashville.  I wonder about people who seem to be so determined to prove to me why Arkansas' football program can't be an elite contender.  If half the energy used to try and convince me that my expectations are "unrealistic" was put towards demanding a winning program then we might could get somewhere.

[Since 1894]

1. Larger population - in the state and the surrounding states.

2.  History / Tradition

3.  They have a history in the SEC and they are in the middle of the SEC.

4.  We are new comers to the SEC and we are on the edge of the conference.

JMHO

Be Good

1. We have Louisianna, Tenn, Oklahoma, Texas around us.  Alabama's advantage of being larger is offset by two major universities.

2. History/Tradition, kids go play for the coach more often than the university.

3.  Kids don't care about your history in a conference, all they care is if you are in a certain conference.

4.  Kids don't care about if you are new to a conference, most of these kids were hardly born when we went to the SEC.

I don't by these excuses, IMO.

Then shouldn't Miss. St. be awesome?

Be Good

[Dr Swineglove]

Alabama also has Forrest Gump going for it.  We have DMW.  I rest my case.

Seriously though, the population difference isn't as much as I would have thought.  In the last official (2000) census, Arkansas had a population of 2,673,400; Alabama 4,447,100, and I bet Arkansas has closed the gap a bit in the last seven years.  Adjusted for the 'Auburn factor,' I'd say we have a bigger *potential* recruiting base than 'Bama (Alabama has Troy to account for ASU).  So I think the answer would have to be the quality of the high school programs, as hogfan2286 suggested.  Maybe all the recent school consolidations will help us there; fewer small schools, more big schools.  Time will tell.

[TX HOG]

1. Larger population - in the state and the surrounding states.

2.  History / Tradition

3.  They have a history in the SEC and they are in the middle of the SEC.

4.  We are new comers to the SEC and we are on the edge of the conference.

JMHO

Be Good

1. We have Louisianna, Tenn, Oklahoma, Texas around us.  Alabama's advantage of being larger is offset by two major universities.

2. History/Tradition, kids go play for the coach more often than the university.

3.  Kids don't care about your history in a conference, all they care is if you are in a certain conference.

4.  Kids don't care about if you are new to a conference, most of these kids were hardly born when we went to the SEC.

I don't by these excuses, IMO.

Then shouldn't Miss. St. be awesome?

Be Good

I would say they too don't have the commitment to winning like the Bama and Auburn.  We have great other programs, and facilities unlike Miss St.

[cresentcitycouchon]

AR can recruit top 10 classes in: Basketball, Baseball, & Track in the same year.

The only reason we don't in football is the HC.

It has nothing to do with the state or the school.
[/quote

BINGO!! we ahve a winner. It doesn't matter if you're a sprinter,pitcher, point guard, or quarterback, ATHLETES SIMPLY WANT TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH SUCCESS...and a successful team/program. PERIOD.

John Mcdonell, Dave Van Horn, and Nolan Richardson(at one point) haven't been telling anyone.." I just can't get kids to come to the UA.."...

Frank broyles referred to the Arkansas job in 1958 as"...the Nebraska of the South..." becuase there was no cross-state rival,etc.

[TX HOG]

Who would you rather have as your instate competition. Arkansas St. or Auburn.  We should hold the upper hand there, but we don't.  Would you rather have Arkansas St. or Mississippi as you competition?  We have no instate competition for kids, most states have atleast two major D1 programs to battle for instate kids.

[cresentcitycouchon]

who was griping about recruiting when Broyles was the coach, how was it in 1964 when he went undeafeted and beat Nebraska in the Cotton Bowl?  What was our population and facilities like then? Where was the interstate highway? or the new Regional airport?  in the Fayetteville area?

[Stella]

Alabama gets it done because they have fine players that can play beyond the coaching....

Forrest Gump was from Greenbow Alabama and is a good example.

Oh never mind, we have a Forrest Gump twin coaching at Ark, without the luck (or ping-pong skills).

That's a compliment for Nutt. 

[Stella]

Alabama is a small state, Arkansas is smaller.  Alabama has two Universities to fight over local kids, we have no instate competition.  Is it 100% coaching, how come Auburn is very strong, and we are not.  I know Alabama hasn't been great recently, but with Saban I have a feeling the "Tide" is about to turn.  If two Alabama schools can do it, why can't we?  Alabama's history, blah, blah, blah. 

Broyles is not their AD and Nutt is not their HC.

[cbjagman]

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to answer this question: the difference is Houston Dale Nutt. We're "stuck" with him and the 'Bama schools aren't!

[Arkansas1]

It's simple why Alabama and Auburn do better than Arkansas in recruiting...kids go there because they have a shot at a national championship.  Most kids dream is to win a national championship while they are in college, and Arkansas is a place that will not see one until Nutt is gone.  Who wouldn't want to play for Nick Saban and Tommy Tuberville(sp).  They are proven coaches who know how to win. Saban won a NC and Tuberville should have had a shot at one. Its simple... Nutt will never win won, let alone even play for one.

[wayneslane]

Simply becuase they demand more from there coaches. That is how simple the answer is.

[headalphageek]

We havent had a HC that could recruit since 1989.

[hog_heaven_2000]

Alabama is a small state, Arkansas is smaller.  Alabama has two Universities to fight over local kids, we have no instate competition.  Is it 100% coaching, how come Auburn is very strong, and we are not.  I know Alabama hasn't been great recently, but with Saban I have a feeling the "Tide" is about to turn.  If two Alabama schools can do it, why can't we?  Alabama's history, blah, blah, blah. 

I can't disagree with your logic. Good point.

[Fayetnam]

Alabama has an up front coach who will tell you whether he likes you or not to your face. We have a coach that back doors and works below grass level, like a snake does.

[Purple Tiger]

who was griping about recruiting when Broyles was the coach, how was it in 1964 when he went undeafeted and beat Nebraska in the Cotton Bowl?  What was our population and facilities like then? Where was the interstate highway? or the new Regional airport?  in the Fayetteville area?

You were in SWC in '64. SEC was and is much tougher. I don't think your 64 team could have won SEC that year. What was ya'lls record against SEC teams when FB was coach?  Ya'll were able to recruit a lot of Texas kids who were spurned by the Horns. These guys loved trying to prove Horns screwed up by not signing them. OU was in a down cycle in those years. OU is Hogs'real rival in recruiting quality players from Texas.

[tophawg19]

they are committed to winning . the kids believe in what those programs are selling . we on the other hand lack coaches who are believeable on the national scale . most kids want to go to a school where they really trust the coaches . ours have picked up a shady reputation .

[HangTenHog]

We havent had a HC that could recruit since 1989.

The avatar alone gets a +1

[3kgthog]

1. Saban has a national title and NFL experience. Nutt has nothing but mythical SECW championships. Who do you think has more street cred among youngsters?

2. Saban has great assistants. Minus Rocker and Herring, our assistants are lame coaches and even worse recruiters.

3. Our offense isn't one that very many top players want to play in unless they are RBs. Our offense is where QBs, WRs, and TEs go to die.

[slopinhogs]

a long time ago a small school in Indiana with 13 boys in the high school and 6 on the Basketball team won 31 games and the state championship by beating the Central Bears and no one had been successful ding that before. it boils down to coaching and the way you prepare for a game. it actually happened. the movie is called Hoosiers . i lived there back then. :razorback:

[djgaffer]

At this point under HDN, Arkansas has a winning record against both Auburn and Alabama.  The difference I guess would be that Bama just paid $4MM a year just to try to catch up.

[TX HOG]

At this point under HDN, Arkansas has a winning record against both Auburn and Alabama.  The difference I guess would be that Bama just paid $4MM a year just to try to catch up.

We may have a winning record, but they Auburn has more wins.  Alabama's about to win more too.  It's about TOTAL WINS.  TOTAL WINS.  That is horrible logic.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Alabama is a small state, Arkansas is smaller.  Alabama has two Universities to fight over local kids, we have no instate competition.  Is it 100% coaching, how come Auburn is very strong, and we are not.  I know Alabama hasn't been great recently, but with Saban I have a feeling the "Tide" is about to turn.  If two Alabama schools can do it, why can't we?  Alabama's history, blah, blah, blah. 

When you think of the very top, tradition rich programs across the country, I bet we could all name 20-25 that immediately come to mind and we would probably have a lot of the same teams in common. Some of those might include Notre Dame, USC, Michigan, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Texas, Tennessee, LSU, Auburn, Georgia, Florida, Florida State, Penn State, Nebraska and yes, Alabama. That is just 15, but I bet that every kid that is a great athlete across the country knows those names and their pulse quickens when they hear that one of these teams might be interested in them. Everyone else is basically "second tier" in terms of reputation. How did these teams attain such lofty status? Certainly there was a commitment to winning and investing in their individual programs a long time ago and much of this was driven, not only by the schools and their administrations, but by their fan bases as well. But even if they had a rabid fan base, they would not have attained their reputations if it had not been for winning consistently, year in and year out and at some point or another, becoming THE dominant school in all of college football. Whether it be by a mythical or BCS national championship, they have ALL been there. This is what separates the "Big Boys" from the "also rans".

Until we have a coach in place that can take us to a National Championship, we will not be perceived as being one of the elite who, when our name is mentioned in a coach's office or in some recruit's living room, makes that recruit's heart pound a little harder, knowing that the Razorback's are interested in him.

Just my take.

[TX HOG]

I agree the name plays a role, but the coach seals the deal.  How many top players have us listed early?  Several do, but we don't close the deal on all them.  A coach can take a smaller name schoola and still recruit there, it's been done, just not here.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

1. Saban has a national title and NFL experience. Nutt has nothing but mythical SECW championships. Who do you think has more street cred among youngsters?

2. Saban has great assistants. Minus Rocker and Herring, our assistants are lame coaches and even worse recruiters.

3. Our offense isn't one that very many top players want to play in unless they are RBs. Our offense is where QBs, WRs, and TEs go to die.

To quote a movie line........"if you build it, they will come". Nothing truer than this. Even if it is a slug it out type of offense, players will come to be a part of it. Win a NC and they will come in droves. Don't win a NC, and we will continue to have more of the same. A commitment to winning a NC and whatever it takes to get there, is the only thing that will change the perception of Arkansas.

Just my take.

[TX HOG]

You said when you said "Whatever it takes", we MUST have this attitude to winning. 

[Conway Cool Daddy]

The difference?

About 90,000 people at the Spring Practice?

About 4 million dollars in value of the head coach?

[TX HOG]

The difference?

About 90,000 people at the Spring Practice?

About 4 million dollars in value of the head coach?

Comes down to a commitment to winning.  Alabama has it, we don't. 

[311Hog]

Something of note when will people stop using "new kid to the conference" as an excuse? We have been in the conference for over a decade, we are no longer "new".  In the modern era of football we are SEC.

Gator is completely right, it is all about commitment and expectations.

In Alabama they dont have anymore resources then we do, but their AD and staff are COMMITTED to building an elite program, and so are their fans (90,000 for spring game).

If we expected more from our program we would get more, but to many people dont or are so apathitic about the whole situation it just sits there and rots.

[hawaiianhogster]

Alabama is willing to get the best coach in the country to coach their football team to a national championship. Arkansas is the opposite. Mediocrity rules.

[HogHeathen]

Alabama has twice as many people as Arkansas, and their high school football is better.

And they have a little richer tradition in Football than we do...just fact

[HogHeathen]

Alabama is willing to get the best coach in the country to coach their football team to a national championship. Arkansas is the opposite. Mediocrity rules.

Possibilities cost a lot of money...show me the odds and payoffs

[BCShogs]

Alabama hasn't done anything great lately. We have had as much recent success as they have. I think we will be just as successful in the future if we get rid of the Nutt.

[JJHog]

Alabama is a small state, Arkansas is smaller.  Alabama has two Universities to fight over local kids, we have no instate competition.  Is it 100% coaching, how come Auburn is very strong, and we are not.  I know Alabama hasn't been great recently, but with Saban I have a feeling the "Tide" is about to turn.  If two Alabama schools can do it, why can't we?  Alabama's history, blah, blah, blah. 

fro one thing-- Alabama has about 80 plus D-1 signees while Arkansas has about 1/3 of that.

[BumpieJohnson]

who was griping about recruiting when Broyles was the coach, how was it in 1964 when he went undeafeted and beat Nebraska in the Cotton Bowl?  What was our population and facilities like then? Where was the interstate highway? or the new Regional airport?  in the Fayetteville area?

You were in SWC in '64. SEC was and is much tougher. I don't think your 64 team could have won SEC that year. What was ya'lls record against SEC teams when FB was coach?  Ya'll were able to recruit a lot of Texas kids who were spurned by the Horns. These guys loved trying to prove Horns screwed up by not signing them. OU was in a down cycle in those years. OU is Hogs'real rival in recruiting quality players from Texas.
[/quote

so true +1

[hawkhog]

Alabama is a small state, Arkansas is smaller.  Alabama has two Universities to fight over local kids, we have no instate competition.  Is it 100% coaching, how come Auburn is very strong, and we are not.  I know Alabama hasn't been great recently, but with Saban I have a feeling the "Tide" is about to turn.  If two Alabama schools can do it, why can't we?  Alabama's history, blah, blah, blah. 

fro one thing-- Alabama has about 80 plus D-1 signees while Arkansas has about 1/3 of that.

spread that out over Alabama, Auburn, UA Birmingham

[razorbass]

Maybe they cheat?

[Justifiable Hogicide]

AR can recruit top 10 classes in: Basketball, Baseball, & Track in the same year.

The only reason we don't in football is the HC.

It has nothing to do with the state or the school.

Nutt is the problem.

[jhogfan554]

How many top 10 recruiting classes have we had in the past 5 coaches?