Shot Clock Topic

[crabeyes]

Mike and Mike were talking about the college shot clock this morning. Tom Izzo said he would like to shorten the shot clock to speed up the game. I didn't realize the girl shot clock is 30s. Do you think this would help a pressing team like AR? It was an interesting topic this morning. I always wondered why college had a 35s shot clock??? The game moves too slow at time

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22091054/tom-izzo-asks-that-college-basketball-shorten-its-shot-clock

[sasnakrafan]

This easily helps a team like Arkansas. More back and forth which tires out a team more and then it forces the opponents to use more timeouts. This won't affect the guards as much, but the big guys is where it's going to hurt especially if there's no depth.

If the hogs can force the opponents to play "our game" then with our conditioning (which should be superior to the opponents unless we play the same style) we should be able to win more and pull a bigger margin of victory in the last four minutes. Of course this works both ways, if we don't make our shots, it doesn't matter how many possessions you have. 

[Danny J]

Surprising to hear Izzo say such a thing. Maybe reverse psychology on his part.

[azhog10]

Surprising to hear Izzo say such a thing. Maybe reverse psychology on his part.

Not really. If you have ever been to one of his coaches clinics you would see that he isn't necessarily a slow it down and run the clock out kind of coach. He definitely tapers the system he runs by the players he has and what they can handle. But to him he can get into his sets and force a shot up. He also believes that with the very solid defense they play that the shot clock will only help his defense induce bad shots. He's one of the best and trust me he will not be against that change.

[Ironhawg]

I would hate to see college basketball go to a 24 second clock like the NBA.  The NBA to me is just not fun to watch. 

[Ray Piggers]

I would hate to see college basketball go to a 24 second clock like the NBA.  The NBA to me is just not fun to watch. 

Yeah, I just hate that fast paced, high scoring basketball!!

[old_school_hawg]

Yeah, I just hate that fast paced, high scoring basketball!!

NBA is not as high scoring as it used to be. Its sloppy. Neither is NCAA ball. Fundamentals are horrible on both levels, discipline sucks. Bring back the 90's, man. It was awesome back then.

[SPAL]

NBA is not as high scoring as it used to be. Its sloppy. Neither is NCAA ball. Fundamentals are horrible on both levels, discipline sucks. Bring back the 90's, man. It was awesome back then.

Everything was better then...

[Wahls]

Everything was better then...

Including country music.

Yep, I'm looking at you Tim McGraw and Jason Aldean. I'm tired of listening to your amateur rap.

[Dr. Starcs]

While izzo is known for running set after set on offense, his teams actually do push the ball up the floor. They look for the early shot, but will back it out and run clock if they don't get it.

[Ironhawg]

NBA is not as high scoring as it used to be. Its sloppy. Neither is NCAA ball. Fundamentals are horrible on both levels, discipline sucks. Bring back the 90's, man. It was awesome back then.

This!!!!

[hogsanity]

more shots wont equal better ball if it continues that no one can shoot the ball. Pressing teams can't press if they can't shoot, no matter how many shots they get.

[Ray Piggers]

NBA is not as high scoring as it used to be. Its sloppy. Neither is NCAA ball. Fundamentals are horrible on both levels, discipline sucks. Bring back the 90's, man. It was awesome back then.

90's to 120's is always what I remember. Much more athletic and high flying than it used to be. Fundamentals have been declining slowly since the 70's, We've been coming towards this point for a while. NBA ball is  definitely more enjoyable than college at this point IMHO.

[passinghog]

90's to 120's is always what I remember. Much more athletic and high flying than it used to be. Fundamentals have been declining slowly since the 70's, We've been coming towards this point for a while. NBA ball is  definitely more enjoyable than college at this point IMHO.

this isn't an opinion, it's a fact. Anyone that says the college is more enjoyable than the NBA simply doesn't watch pro hoops.

[UltimateHog]

Knock it down to 27 or 30, but definitely lower it form 35.

35 is WAY too much, as evidenced by the women having 30.

There is nothing worse than watching a team like Bucknell play, or Wisconsin, that abuse the 35 seconds to the fullest.

[HogFaninMemphis]

NBA is not as high scoring as it used to be. Its sloppy. Neither is NCAA ball. Fundamentals are horrible on both levels, discipline sucks. Bring back the 90's, man. It was awesome back then.

back in the days of no defense and everyone being able to score....
I think that the increased defense has a bigger outcome on the pro game than the lack of fundamentals. Players in college routinely miss mid-range jumpers. They're pretty much automatic in the pros. Difference between now and then is that they used to learn to hit those before they got to the NBA. Now, they have to learn it while in the NBA. Defensive pressure has been ratcheted up a lot, and the allowance to play some zone defense has hurt scoring, too.

[jbcarol]

Two major changes for college basketball -- an earlier start to practice and a change in the shot clock -- could occur in time for the beginning of the 2013-14 season.

At a May 2 meeting, the NCAA Board of Directors will vote on moving up the start of practice by two to three weeks (would be Sept. 27 or Oct. 4 this season). And the following week in Indianapolis, the men's basketball rules committee will vote on moving the shot clock from 35 to 30 seconds.

The 30-second shot clock decision is a bit more fluid. The rules committee still has to vote on it and these things usually go through a transition period or experimentation for a year. This is a rule-change season (happens every other year) so there will be some changes.

St. Peter's coach John Dunne, who serves as chair of the committee, said it's almost a guarantee there will be a replay change with the officials getting to go to the monitor for the final minute (he is proposing the last two minutes) of the half to look at any key issue like scoring, fouling and most importantly possession. There will also likely be an adjustment on the distance for the always-controversial block/charge call. But the most significant rule change would be the reduction of five seconds on the shot clock.

"I'm just one vote," Dunne said. "But I like the 35. The extra five seconds allows for different systems. You can have the Princeton system versus the Florida Gulf Coast one. Everything in the NBA is pick-and-roll and everything is moving in that direction, but will going down to 30 seconds lead to more bad shots? Could it lead to worse offense? The NBA has bail-out, shot-clock guys that college may not. I don't know if lowering the shot clock will increase scoring."

He's not alone...

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/9200477/poll-results-favor-earlier-start-shorter-shot-clock-college-basketball

[The_Iceman]

I don't mind the change from 35 to 30 seconds.

[cmpledger]

If anyone thinks NBA basketball is more sloppy than College they are insane. NBA is 10x as much fun to watch than college ball. The majority of players in the NBA are  actually fundamentally sound except for the few players that rely just on athleticism. If you think they aren't then you don't want NBA basketball, fact. Plus if you whine about sloppy and non fundamental basketball how the hell you going to say college is better where the majority of players lack fundamentals

[Inhogswetrust]

this isn't an opinion, it's a fact. Anyone that says the college is more enjoyable than the NBA simply doesn't watch pro hoops.

That all depends on WHAT you enjoy. Different people enjoy different things.

[mbgrulz]

this isn't an opinion, it's a fact. Anyone that says the college is more enjoyable than the NBA simply doesn't watch pro hoops.

I watch them both, and have all my life...I like college better, but its more about the way I feel about the players and teams, and not the actual game part...The NBA is CLEARLY better basketball. How could it not be?

[RyeHogFan]

I don't have an opinion on the college shot clock, but I do wish they had one in high school. I believe this would help the transition to the college game and therefore would make for better college ball. Without the shot clock, there is no need to run a true offense and so players come in physically talented but fundamentally deficient.

[hogsanity]

with 18 possible time outs per game ( 5 for each team, and 8 media ) a shorter shot cock is not going to help tire teams out, and it is not going to improve the flow of the game.

[cmpledger]

with 18 possible time outs per game ( 5 for each team, and 8 media ) a shorter shot cock is not going to help tire teams out, and it is not going to improve the flow of the game.

oh really now?

[The_Iceman]

with 18 possible time outs per game ( 5 for each team, and 8 media ) a shorter shot cock is not going to help tire teams out, and it is not going to improve the flow of the game.

How can making a team speed up their pace not help to tire teams out?

Now they have to worry about getting it across in 10 seconds, then have just 20 seconds to get a shot off.

[old_school_hawg]

back in the days of no defense and everyone being able to score....
I think that the increased defense has a bigger outcome on the pro game than the lack of fundamentals. Players in college routinely miss mid-range jumpers. They're pretty much automatic in the pros. Difference between now and then is that they used to learn to hit those before they got to the NBA. Now, they have to learn it while in the NBA. Defensive pressure has been ratcheted up a lot, and the allowance to play some zone defense has hurt scoring, too.

Good points, but the fundamentals and discipline has definitely declined...not a little...a whole bunch...and we have an inferior product to watch all around.

[old_school_hawg]

If anyone thinks NBA basketball is more sloppy than College they are insane. NBA is 10x as much fun to watch than college ball. The majority of players in the NBA are  actually fundamentally sound except for the few players that rely just on athleticism. If you think they aren't then you don't want NBA basketball, fact. Plus if you whine about sloppy and non fundamental basketball how the hell you going to say college is better where the majority of players lack fundamentals

nobody said this. I said it was sloppy and undisciplined all the way around. And it is.

[hogsanity]

How can making a team speed up their pace not help to tire teams out?

Now they have to worry about getting it across in 10 seconds, then have just 20 seconds to get a shot off.

still only usually 4-5 minutes of play between timeouts, shorter shot clock does not equal more play.  Very few teams now take it all the way down to under 5 seconds routinely, so it is not going to lead to teams getting tired.  in a 20 minute half there are forty 30 secnd periods.  in a 20 minute half with a 35 second clock there are 34.29 35 second periods. So you are only looking at 5.71 more possessions per half if the shot clock were run dwn to zero every time.

[phadedhawg]

I want a shorter shot clock.  It came make for more thrilling finishes.  You can come back from further down and with less time when you have a shorter shot clock

[Wooderson]

A shorter shot clock causes one on one basketball and I'm sorry but that is why I hate the NBA.  I think 30 seconds is reasonable, but anything less than that is a joke.  I'm sorry if I don't get excited about the PG crossing the timeline and passing it to a player and the rest of the players clearing out for some street ball.

[jbcarol]

Jeff Goodman: The NCAA men's basketball rules committee is meeting in Indianapolis, and a source told CBSSports.com the shot clock is not expected to be reduced.

"There's not a lot of momentum to change the shot clock from 35 to 30 seconds," the source said.

However, the source did say the following rules changes could be passed:

The automatic flagrant fouls for the swinging of elbows will almost certainly be amended. The new rule will give referees a measure of discretion...

Officials will be able to check replays at timeouts to determine whether a made shot is inside the arc or a 3-pointer.

Referees likely will be able to go the monitor in the last two minutes of the game for more than just flagrant calls

The block/charge call could be slightly altered in an effort to help the offensive player

Instead of a full 35-second shot clock following a foul in the frontcourt, it will likely be reduced to somewhere between 20 and 25 seconds

To try to improve the game and make it more free-flowing, there will be emphasis on the current rules regarding hand-checking and cutting.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22217747/ncaa-set-to-vote-on-key-rule-changes-shot-clock-likely-to-remain

Depending on how hand-checking is redefined and practically interpreted in games could be the biggest impact for Hogs on the list.

[mbgrulz]

Love the idea of altering the block/charge call...Its gotten to be way too in the favor of the defenders...You want to help scoring, and make basketball more entertaining? Then you have to let the offensive players attack without fear of some guy sliding under them or just simply standing in their way and allowing themselves to get run over. It's smart basketball on the part of the defender, but its not a basketball play, and it needs to change in favor of the offensive player.

[jgphillips3]

I would like a 24-30 second shot clock. I would really like it if they quit calling ticky-tacky fouls on guards while allowing Greco-Roman wrestling under the basket. Calling fouls on the bigs consistently and loosening up the hand check rule would make the game a lot more enjoyable to me and give teams who can't get an elite big man a chance.

[jbcarol]

Led by Belmont coach Rick Byrd, chairman of the NCAA Men's Basketball Rules Committee, a group of administrators and coaches met with a handful of media members Monday at the Final Four to discuss the state of the game from a rules perspective. The group provided data on the impact of the rules enacted/enforced last season and a potential roadmap for what might be next:

• Reducing the shot clock to either 30 or 24 seconds. Brey said he is in favor, and there seems to be fairly wide support for a reduction of some kind – although there also is a concern about college hoops becoming an NBA copycat league. (Interestingly, Byrd said his Belmont team occasionally uses a 12-second shot clock in practice to force tempo and enhance conditioning.)

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rule-makers-planning-to-make-ncaa-men-s-basketball-even-more-fan-friendly-164746766.html

Many more rule changes discussed at the link including steps to shorten elapsed time at the end of games.

[jbcarol]

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN 4h

[ACC Commish] Swofford said for exhibition games ACC will use 30-second shot clock in men's hoops. "College basketball needs to take closer look at this"

[choppedporkextrasauce]

Lower the shot clock to 28 seconds.
Change the 10 second rule to 8 with no resets.
Get rid of the darned hand check rule outside, and start calling the over the back mugging that goes on inside.

[jbcarol]

A Sea o' Blue: let's get serious about changing the shot clock to 30 seconds. 35 seems too long to me right now.

I think there is a "perfect" number for the shot clock, and I suspect it is somewhere between 35 and 25 seconds. The 24-second clock in the NBA seems too quick, allowing teams to run too little offense. I believe it is one of the reasons why the NBA has gone almost exclusively to pick-and-roll, because it doesn't require a lot of time to create or develop.

At the same time, 35 seconds often seems too long in college basketball, and teams have figured out ways to run a whole lot of offense in that time, which can really slow down the game. Ken Pomeroy points out that the pace (possessions per game) increased significantly early last season, presumably due to the "new emphasis" on impeding player movement. As the season wore on, that trend reversed...

[jbcarol]

Bo Mattingly ‏@SportsTalkwBo 39m
Anderson on the shot clock: In our case, you can lower it down to 24.

[jbcarol]

Jimmy Hyams @JimmyHyams  ·  2h
UT AD Dave Hart said he's fine with experimenting with :30 shot clock in exhibitions. 'Let's try it, chart it, see if it alters the game.'

[jbcarol]

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN

"SEC following ACC's lead in experimenting w/30-second shot clock in exhibition men's hoops games"

[jbcarol]

 Matt Jones @KySportsRadio  ·  1m 1 minute ago

NCAA Rules Committee Chair tells @ESPNAndyKatz that college BB shot clock likely to go from 35 to 30 seconds

[jbcarol]

Andy Katz @ESPNAndyKatz  ·  6h 6 hours ago
Rules committee boss: Men's college hoops likely headed for 30-second shot clock http://es.pn/1EKsXap

[hogsanity]

Andy Katz @ESPNAndyKatz  ·  6h 6 hours ago
Rules committee boss: Men's college hoops likely headed for 30-second shot clock http://es.pn/1EKsXap

woo hoo, more bad shots per game, and it makes pace of play faster overall, so there goes another advantage the Hogs supposedly had over some teams.

[jbcarol]

Re: the shot clock in college basketball is likely to be reduced from 35 seconds to 30 seconds.

"It's pretty evident a lot more coaches are leaning that way," said NCAA Rules Committee Chairman Rick Byrd, the head coach at OVC member Belmont.

The rules committee is scheduled to meet May 12 to 15 in Indianapolis.

[jbcarol]

 Kevin Brockway @gatorhoops  ·  May 15

NCAA basketball rules group proposes reduced shot clock, timeouts http://usat.ly/1HliIK8  via @usatoday

On Friday, the men's basketball rules committee announced that it would recommend shortening the shot clock from 35 seconds to 30, increase the restricted area arc in front of the basket from three feet to four feet, and three changes aimed at reducing timeouts.

The strategy is simple: A shorter shot clock is expected to lead to more possessions, a faster pace of play and perhaps an increase in scoring. Expanding the charge circle should reduce the low-post collision rate.

For timeouts, the recommendation are to reduce timeouts from five to four, with no more than three carrying over from the first to the second half; quicker resumption of play coming out of timeouts and player disqualifications; disallowing coaches from calling timeouts in live ball situations; and making a timeout called within 30 seconds of a media timeout stand for the media timeout.

[jbcarol]

 Dan Dakich @dandakich  ·  18h 18 hours ago

College hoops has never been less physical...nobody cuts so nobody holds cutters..need for "freedom of movement" rules are laughable

[jbcarol]

 Frank Martin @FrankMartin_SC  ·  2h 2 hours ago

Watching my son yesterday saw yg man dribble whole shot clock&shoot off dribble 3 which bcame lay up 4 other team.if we only had 24sec clock

[jbcarol]

Men's basketball will go from 35 to 30 seconds for the shot clock, a three-foot restricted-area arc is now four feet and five timeouts per team per game has been changed to four (with no more than three timeouts carrying over to the second half from the first).

[jbcarol]

As expected, the NCAA approved Monday a reduction to the shot clock in college basketball, going from 35 seconds to 30 seconds.

Acting on recommendations from the NCAA Men's Basketball Rules Committee, headed by Belmont coach Rick Byrd, the NCAA oversight panel also approved a reduction in the number of timeouts for each team.

The change in the shot clock is to try to improve scoring numbers, which have been on the decline.

[jbcarol]

Two more college basketball rule changes that the NCAA should consider

NCAA officially changed a couple of rules for the 2015-16 season, the most notable of which was the decision to drop the shot clock from 35 seconds to 30 seconds... unless officials buy into the idea of freedom of movement and truly call the game that way, none of these changes will have much of an affect.

But there are two notes that I did quickly want to discuss:

NCAA voted to get rid of the five-second closely-guarded rule, which is the one change that I am not a fan of. In the past, it was a violation to hold the ball for longer than five seconds or to dribble the ball without going towards the basket for longer than five seconds while being closely guarded. That's the reason that we had so much false motion in the college game at the start of a possession. It demanded some creativity offensively and created an incentive to play aggressive, extended defense. Without the rule, expect to see a lot more over-dribbling, particularly when point guards look to drain the clock to set up a ball-screen at the end of a possession...