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Cole Kelley in a read option offense

Started by SemperHawg, November 21, 2017, 02:20:23 pm

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SemperHawg

We have already seen what he brings to the table running the ball.  Not terribly fleet of foot but long striding and durable.  I have to wonder how he would look in an offense that utilized the read option to its fullest *cough Gus cough cough*

Cole Kelley running the read option with Whaley in the back field and guys like Hammonds and Hayden to attack the perimeter. 

I know this is getting way ahead of myself, but I like the possibility of how it could look.


hogsanity

I have watched CK run with the ball, and I can not figure out why people think he is a running QB & why they would want him in a read option offense.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

 

HF#1

Quote from: hogsanity on November 21, 2017, 02:25:19 pm
I have watched CK run with the ball, and I can not figure out why people think he is a running QB & why they would want him in a read option offense.

^ Correct
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

hogsanity

Quote from: HF#1 on November 21, 2017, 02:26:56 pm
^ Correct

Now run some sort of read if you need 2 or 3 yards, sure, but to have that be my main offense?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

BR

Not happening, he is not quick enough...
"Cause I love Cajun martinis and playin' afternoon golf"

HF#1

Quote from: hogsanity on November 21, 2017, 02:28:51 pm
Now run some sort of read if you need 2 or 3 yards, sure, but to have that be my main offense?

I even question the 2 or 3 yard plays. QB sneaks, sure. He needs to be back there slinging it behind a kick ass o-line
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

EastexHawg

Good defenses have stuffed him when he tries to run.  I don't care what you call the package, the idea of lining Cole up and having him beat SEC defenses with his feet is not going to work.  4th and one yard?  Yeah, maybe so, but he is not going to be an effective runner at this level just because he is big.

SemperHawg

Even with all of the lost yardage from the gazillion sacks he has taken this year he still is sitting at a plus ypc of 1.4.  Considering the amount of lost yardage that is pretty significant... multiple runs of 10 yards or more and two rushing TDs... Are we watching different guys here?

31to6

Quote from: hogsanity on November 21, 2017, 02:25:19 pm
I have watched CK run with the ball, and I can not figure out why people think he is a running QB & why they would want him in a read option offense.
He is a step slower (4.9 vs 4.8 in the 40) and a bit bigger than K-State's Collin Klein and would do a similar role when running a zone read play: gut out a few hard yards on size and strength and get a bigger gain once or twice. Not a threat to house it from midfield or anything, but enough of a threat that the DE can't just key on the RB and ignore him.

In a zone read the QB and TB don't have to split the carries 50/50. The QB just has to be able to "win the down" (usually, get 3-4 yards) when he has to pull the ball and run it.

Of course not nearly as dangerous as a true dual-threat QB, but if you are only running a zone read 10-12 times a game and the QB has to pull 4-5 of those, he doesn't have to be Deshaun Watson for the play to be successful.

So no, he is not a running QB. But he is big enough and can run enough that he could run a spread offense that had a zone read concept. I don't think he'd be very good in and offense where the zone read is the entire run game, however.


hogsanity

Quote from: EastexHawg on November 21, 2017, 02:32:46 pm
Good defenses have stuffed him when he tries to run.  I don't care what you call the package, the idea of lining Cole up and having him beat SEC defenses with his feet is not going to work.  4th and one yard?  Yeah, maybe so, but he is not going to be an effective runner at this level just because he is big.

His main running ability is being able to shake of a tackler and then scramble. but he is not a "running qb" and I can not figure out why anyone thinks he is.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

SemperHawg

Quote from: hogsanity on November 21, 2017, 02:28:51 pm
Now run some sort of read if you need 2 or 3 yards, sure, but to have that be my main offense?
Also, consider the scheme... I am not talking about these designed QB runs where everyone in the stadium knows he is getting the ball.  Which by the way makes it all the more amazing that he is able to get any yardage.  Put him in a spot where we are making the D choose between Whaley and Hayden or Hammonds.  Kelley can get you 4 plus almost every time in that situation.  Add in the arm strength angle when you figure in RPOs ect and its not as unreasonable as you would think.

IronHog

He'd be better as a Tebow style runner


Just snap him the thing and block
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

HogPharmer

Quote from: hogsanity on November 21, 2017, 02:25:19 pm
I have watched CK run with the ball, and I can not figure out why people think he is a running QB & why they would want him in a read option offense.

People think that because he is tall, that suddenly makes him Matt Jones.
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SemperHawg

Quote from: hogsanity on November 21, 2017, 02:35:19 pm
His main running ability is being able to shake of a tackler and then scramble. but he is not a "running qb" and I can not figure out why anyone thinks he is.
Just because I am saying he would be better running a zone read scheme doesn't mean I think he is a "running QB".  At no point should he be expected to lead us in rushing or anything near that.  I personally think his size and difficulty to being down makes him a fit for an offense that uses the QB's legs to keep a defense honest.  That is all.

IronHog

Quote from: HogPharmer on November 21, 2017, 02:38:07 pm
People think that because he is tall, that suddenly makes him Matt Jones.


He moves plenty well for the occasional designed run, scramble, roll out, RPO etc.


If he's gonna get good he's gotta own the pocket though.....
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: hogsanity on November 21, 2017, 02:25:19 pm
I have watched CK run with the ball, and I can not figure out why people think he is a running QB & why they would want him in a read option offense.

No kidding.  Unfotunately, he's a major project regardless.  He's got a long way to go throwing the ball.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: IronHog on November 21, 2017, 02:36:22 pm
He'd be better as a Tebow style runner


Just snap him the thing and block

Yep, between the tackles.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

IronHog

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on November 21, 2017, 02:42:58 pm
No kidding.  Unfotunately, he's a major project regardless.  He's got a long way to go throwing the ball.


Just needs to get his feet right


He has a live arm
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: IronHog on November 21, 2017, 02:45:21 pm

Just needs to get his feet right


He has a live arm

Feet might be the most difficult correction.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

SemperHawg

Just for a point of reference Jarret Stidham, who is far from a rushing QB went 4 carries for 49 yards and a TD against us.  I would consider Kelley a better running option than Stidham.

Wildhog

If we hire a coach that uses the read option, I fully expect Gerry Bohanon to be a Hog.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

IronHog

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on November 21, 2017, 02:51:50 pm
Feet might be the most difficult correction.


Playing fundamental QB at a very high level is all about footwork......




Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: IronHog on November 21, 2017, 02:58:06 pm

Playing fundamental QB at a very high level is all about footwork......


Right, but just how simple of a task is it?  He's not close.


Quote from: SemperHawg on November 21, 2017, 02:51:55 pm
Just for a point of reference Jarret Stidham, who is far from a rushing QB went 4 carries for 49 yards and a TD against us.  I would consider Kelley a better running option than Stidham.

How has he done for the season?  I have no clue.  I don't put much stock in a guy just because he gains yards on our defense.  You'd have to be pretty bad not to have success against our defense.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: Wildhog on November 21, 2017, 02:53:10 pm
If we hire a coach that uses the read option, I fully expect Gerry Bohanon to be a Hog.

I suspect chances are very good.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

 

IronHog

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on November 21, 2017, 03:03:09 pm
Right, but just how simple of a task is it?  He's not close.



That's up to Kelly


He can hang out with Girls doing shots or a QB guru in his spare time.
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

EastexHawg

I'm going to say this in the nicest way I can.  Just because we can list the names of players and fill out a lineup card position by position does not mean that they are better than the players on other teams, or even as good as the competition for that matter.  I remember when I was a kid I could name the starting lineup for the Astros...Johnny Edwards catching, Lee May first, Tommy Helms second, Roger Metzger at short, Doug Rader third, Bob Watson...Cesar Cedeno...and Jim Wynn in the outfield...and I thought because I knew their names they were studs.

I don't think they ever won more than 85 games in a season, most years considerably fewer than that.  It seems the other teams had players, too, and their names were Bench, Rose, Morgan, Perez, Concepcion, Foster...or Garvey, Cey, Lopes, Buckner, Messersmith, Sutton...

I hope I am making the point I am trying to make.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: EastexHawg on November 21, 2017, 03:26:01 pm
I'm going to say this in the nicest way I can.  Just because we can list the names of players and fill out a lineup card position by position does not mean that they are better than the players on other teams, or even as good as the competition for that matter.  I remember when I was a kid I could name the starting lineup for the Astros...Johnny Edwards catching, Lee May first, Tommy Helms second, Roger Metzger at short, Doug Rader third, Bob Watson...Cesar Cedeno...and Jim Wynn in the outfield...and I thought because I knew their names they were studs.

I don't think they ever won more than 85 games in a season, most years considerably fewer than that.  It seems the other teams had players, too, and their names were Bench, Rose, Morgan, Perez, Concepcion, Foster...or Garvey, Cey, Lopes, Buckner, Messersmith, Sutton...

I hope I am making the point I am trying to make.

Translation: Hog fans think the program operates in a vacuum.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

bville_hog

Also if he is going to run the ball, he needs to learn how to not fumble so much first.

SemperHawg

Quote from: EastexHawg on November 21, 2017, 03:26:01 pm
I'm going to say this in the nicest way I can.  Just because we can list the names of players and fill out a lineup card position by position does not mean that they are better than the players on other teams, or even as good as the competition for that matter.  I remember when I was a kid I could name the starting lineup for the Astros...Johnny Edwards catching, Lee May first, Tommy Helms second, Roger Metzger at short, Doug Rader third, Bob Watson...Cesar Cedeno...and Jim Wynn in the outfield...and I thought because I knew their names they were studs.

I don't think they ever won more than 85 games in a season, most years considerably fewer than that.  It seems the other teams had players, too, and their names were Bench, Rose, Morgan, Perez, Concepcion, Foster...or Garvey, Cey, Lopes, Buckner, Messersmith, Sutton...

I hope I am making the point I am trying to make.
I'm not going to dispute the talent disparity... I would also argue that given the talent disparity that you are referencing this is all the more reason to move to a scheme where we can maximize the limited talent we have.  Petrino didn't recruit that much better than BB.  He did however know to put his talented players in space.   I am not telling you Whaley and Hammonds and Hayden are better than anything Bama, Aubbie, or Georgia have, but they are dynamic enough that we need to be making better use of them then we are.  Why at this point we don't utilize TJ Hammonds more in space is a mystery to me.

I really do believe that an offense like this plays more to Kelley's strengths and helps to hide some of his deficiencies. 

chiti66

Quote from: hogsanity on November 21, 2017, 02:25:19 pm
I have watched CK run with the ball, and I can not figure out why people think he is a running QB & why they would want him in a read option offense.
This^^^^^^

RazorPiggie

Quote from: HogPharmer on November 21, 2017, 02:38:07 pm
People think that because he is tall, that suddenly makes him Matt Jones.

I think its that people see that he isn't afraid to take a hit.

PORKULATOR

CK needs to drop weight and work on his feet to play Malzahn ball. However, he can do enough in the off season to get there if we hire Gustavo.
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BOAR_N2BWILD

If he is the future of Razorback football I hope that he improves his ability to throw the ball further than 5 yards with accuracy. I am as excited as anyone but honestly did not see anything to get overly excited about.
Phil. 4:13 "I can do all things through Him, who gives me strength."

carolinahogger

Quote from: EastexHawg on November 21, 2017, 02:32:46 pm
Good defenses have stuffed him when he tries to run.

Good defenses would stuff Herschel Walker behind this offensive line.

31to6

Quote from: BOAR_N2BWILD on November 21, 2017, 04:59:05 pm
If he is the future of Razorback football I hope that he improves his ability to throw the ball further than 5 yards with accuracy. I am as excited as anyone but honestly did not see anything to get overly excited about.
He runs a screen play very well. Better than AA for sure.

OneTuskOverTheLine™

Quote from: SemperHawg on November 21, 2017, 02:20:23 pm
We have already seen what he brings to the table running the ball.  Not terribly fleet of foot but long striding and durable.  I have to wonder how he would look in an offense that utilized the read option to its fullest *cough Gus cough cough*

Cole Kelley running the read option with Whaley in the back field and guys like Hammonds and Hayden to attack the perimeter. 

I know this is getting way ahead of myself, but I like the possibility of how it could look.



I think He'd be aight...
https://www.hudl.com/video/3/3137127/5721bb8964e96b6380ff331d
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#1 STUNNA

Quote from: OneTuskOverTheLine™ on November 21, 2017, 05:09:48 pm
I think He'd be aight...
https://www.hudl.com/video/3/3137127/5721bb8964e96b6380ff331d

is it me or does his footwork look alot better in high school than it does here? and also.. he sure would look good running Norvells offense!!! lol

31to6

Quote from: #1 STUNNA on November 21, 2017, 05:29:58 pm
is it me or does his footwork look alot better in high school than it does here? and also.. he sure would look good running Norvells offense!!! lol
Body by Herb

#1 STUNNA

losing some weight wouldnt be a bad thing.

Athog

Quote from: SemperHawg on November 21, 2017, 02:20:23 pm
We have already seen what he brings to the table running the ball.  Not terribly fleet of foot but long striding and durable.  I have to wonder how he would look in an offense that utilized the read option to its fullest *cough Gus cough cough*

You are way ahead of yourself cough cough!!

Cole Kelley running the read option with Whaley in the back field and guys like Hammonds and Hayden to attack the perimeter. 

I know this is getting way ahead of myself, but I like the possibility of how it could look.



threeNout

Quote from: SemperHawg on November 21, 2017, 02:20:23 pm
We have already seen what he brings to the table running the ball.  Not terribly fleet of foot but long striding and durable.  I have to wonder how he would look in an offense that utilized the read option to its fullest *cough Gus cough cough*

Cole Kelley running the read option with Whaley in the back field and guys like Hammonds and Hayden to attack the perimeter. 

I know this is getting way ahead of myself, but I like the possibility of how it could look.



He's got a different skill set, somewhat unique among any other QB we've seen run the read option.

it'd have to be tweaked, from anything we are use to seeing, but may be worth trying.

To me, it's always about 3 strong options the D has to respect equally.

CK running power end round would have to be one of the options you'd think, and if the D wasn't specifically looking to stop that, it could be worth more than 3 yards, I just don't know how much you could do it.

yea, I'd be curious what GM would do.


Dr. Sheldon Cooper

Quote from: Wildhog on November 21, 2017, 02:53:10 pm
If we hire a coach that uses the read option, I fully expect Gerry Bohanon to be a Hog.
Agreed.  100%.
If at first you don't succeed,
then skydiving is not for you...

From Tusk Till Dawn


plumbhog

If get Malzahn I expect we will either pick up a juco or start a true freshman.
bigdaddyhawg,<br />"Tyler wants to find the short receiver almost every single time.  He rarely even looks down the field. Folks, this IS a problem and it is going to continue to severely limit our pass game."<br /><br />Six days later, Tyler throws for a school record 510 yards against A&M

texas tush hog

Quote from: plumbhog on November 22, 2017, 02:15:52 am
If get Malzahn I expect we will either pick up a juco or start a true freshman.


Correct, with Conner Noland and Gerry Bohannon probably coming to the hill next year, Kelley may spend a lot of time carrying a clipboard. Tight end or defensive end could well be in his future.

edt

Quote from: SemperHawg on November 21, 2017, 02:20:23 pm
We have already seen what he brings to the table running the ball.  Not terribly fleet of foot but long striding and durable.  I have to wonder how he would look in an offense that utilized the read option to its fullest *cough Gus cough cough*

Cole Kelley running the read option with Whaley in the back field and guys like Hammonds and Hayden to attack the perimeter. 

I know this is getting way ahead of myself, but I like the possibility of how it could look.


He is not an option quarterback, WAY to slow.

Hawgphish

Read option does not fit his skill set.  No.

MJ2

Sounds like Jim Harris doesn't think any QB on campus now will be the QB under the new coach.

jgphillips3

CK has a gut right now.  Take 15-20 pounds off him and he might look more nimble.

MAGA45

Quote from: IronHog on November 21, 2017, 02:45:21 pm

Just needs to get his feet right


He has a live arm

I'm trying to figure out where people get that Cole has a "live arm".  Is it because he is 6'7 270 and he "should" have a rocket arm that can sling that ball over them mountains?  I have seen nothing from the young man that ooz's big time arm or even arm talent.  He really needs to look long and hard at LA Monroe or the likes, especially if we get a spread/read option type coach in here, he will not fit.
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