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In your opinion, what went wrong?

Started by Sho Nuff, November 21, 2017, 12:53:21 pm

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soso

Quote from: SooieGeneris on November 21, 2017, 01:09:38 pm
Pittman leaving two years ago was big! Anderson has been a disaster and for some reason, BB didn't address said disaster..
I vote this. Pittman recruiting loss was huge!

CPO Hog

My 2 cents.
UNCOMMON recruits i.e. the perfect student and athlete. Those without swag and attitude. I think JL had something to do with this standard, and that is why he is gone.

 

Piggfoot

We have no players. I can think of no players on this team other than Ragnow that will be drafted in the NFL this year.
We switched Offense scheme and busted on Linemen recruiting. Our overall recruiting has not been as good as our opponents. Except for Agim and Ragnow and Froholdt, none of our linemen would make the 2 deep in the SEC W.
Hog fan since 1960. So thankful for Sam Pittman.

bkjbearcat

Quote from: NaturalStateReb on November 21, 2017, 01:52:30 pm
Any offense will work if you have the personnel.  He never had the personnel.

And IMO with that system he wasn't going to get the personnel for it. Many recruits in the region Hogs recruit never played that kind of system before. So BB was recruiting squares to fit in round holes. There's a reason why Nebraska doesn't run the Power I option, or Oklahoma runs the wishbone anymore. If you can't fine personnel that can run that system...why are you still trying to run that system?
B-E-A-R-C-A-T-S BEARCATS, BEARCATS GOOOOOOO BEARCATS!!!!!!!<br /><br />D2 National Champs in Football: 1998, 1999, 2009, 2013, 2015, 2016<br /><br />D2 National Champs in Mens Basketball: 2017, 2019, No.1 team in 2020,2021, 2022

Atlhogfan1

The most glaring issue IMO has been oline recruiting.  The number of high school offensive linemen signed has been ridiculously low when this was supposed to be a program build with the oline at its core foundation.

Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

Coondog Hog

It lived with Sam Pittman and his recruiting and died when he left.
'The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.'
  - Ronald Reagan

'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.' -
-Ronald Reagan
Quote from: mmhogs17 on March 08, 2011, 11:02:18 pm
I've had alot of things in and out of my butt, but never Monkeys..

Wildhog

Quote from: Coondog Hog on November 21, 2017, 02:33:24 pm
It lived with Sam Pittman and his recruiting and died when he left.

Even Pittman wasn't recruiting enough OL.  It was just terrible planning from top to bottom.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

HF#1

"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

scorekeeper

If he recruits the 25th best class yearly but doesn't play the best players on his team then 25th ranking means nothing.
If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score?

HF#1

Quote from: scorekeeper on November 21, 2017, 02:41:24 pm
If he recruits the 25th best class yearly but doesn't play the best players on his team then 25th ranking means nothing.

Solid solid solid solid solid point...
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

Atlhogfan1

The last full class with Pittman was 2015.

2015 OLine class:
Merrick 4 star
Rogers 3 star
Jackson 3 star

Froholdt was in this class too.

2016 which Pittman recruited till Dec.:

Heinrich 4 star
Ramirez 3 star Juco
Malone 3 star Juco

How the hell are you supposed to build a foundation for a program with the oline recruiting like this?  It went beyond Pittman. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

Dwight_K_Shrute

It all started to go down hill when a young man decided to pen a handwritten note of admiration.
Little known fact, but prior to settling on Guantanamo, the Pentagon wanted to house terror suspects at War Memorial Stadium.  It was deemed to be cruel and unusual punishment and in violation of the Geneva Convention.

aloha_kid

Quote from: Sho Nuff on November 21, 2017, 12:53:21 pm
Besides losing too many games, what went wrong with Brett?  He seemed to be on the right track until the last 2 games of last year.  This year has been a train wreck.  I understand that we have experienced an inordinate of injuries to key players.  However, we looked bad at the very beginning of the season.  What do you think happened that caused us to spiral downward?

Injuries and depth.  Too many of one not enough of the other.

 

dfwalumdad

maybe he really did come here to paint.

Wildhog

Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

IronHog

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on November 21, 2017, 02:44:25 pm
The last full class with Pittman was 2015.

2015 OLine class:
Merrick 4 star
Rogers 3 star
Jackson 3 star

Froholdt was in this class too.

2016 which Pittman recruited till Dec.:

Heinrich 4 star
Ramirez 3 star Juco
Malone 3 star Juco

How the hell are you supposed to build a foundation for a program with the oline recruiting like this?  It went beyond Pittman. 


Their best OL is a walk-on from Dumas 😄
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

aloha_kid

Quote from: CPO Hog on November 21, 2017, 02:05:18 pm
My 2 cents.
UNCOMMON recruits i.e. the perfect student and athlete. Those without swag and attitude. I think JL had something to do with this standard, and that is why he is gone.

So, Cole Kelley doesn't have swag?  There is plenty of youth on this team wreaking with attitude and swag.  Whomever the coach is next year, they will reap the benefits of Brets work, similar to Nutt with Fords players

Atlhogfan1

2017 oline class:

Wagner
Adcock
Clenin

2018

Jones 3 star
Gatlin 3 star
Banks 3 star juco

9 high school oline recruits over 4 classes if the 2018 commits sign.  Cannot build a program this way. If you are built and trying to sustain perhaps if you are getting great prospects.  But your hit rate has to be high and retention has to be high. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

jkstock04

You could write a novel on the OP of what went wrong. A better question is what went right? Very little his entire time here. It's been an absolute miserable stretch with the football program.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

LZH

Quote from: HF#1 on November 21, 2017, 01:16:56 pm
Don't underestimate the partying thing. It's real.

I think he went past "partying" a long time ago.

VegasHog

He was on the right track after year 2 and then bought into "you can't out Bama, Bama" nonsense. I don't know why he lost confidence in his own belief system, but he did, and brought in Enos and totally changed the teams identity to play a "modern offense". The new offense failed to click with players recruited for a different style, and continued poor defensive recruiting produced a bad combination and poor results. Had he stuck to his guns on offense and played smash mouth football, kept Pittman, and recruited more speed on defense, then he would still have a job come Saturday.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: llemmonds on November 21, 2017, 03:57:56 pm
He was on the right track after year 2 and then bought into "you can't out Bama, Bama" nonsense. I don't know why he lost confidence in his own belief system, but he did, and brought in Enos and totally changed the teams identity to play a "modern offense". The new offense failed to click with players recruited for a different style, and continued poor defensive recruiting produced a bad combination and poor results. Had he stuck to his guns on offense and played smash mouth football, kept Pittman, and recruited more speed on defense, then he would still have a job come Saturday.

Translation: poor recruiting. 

Which typical for us.

And he won 6 regular season games in year 2.  Nothing about that suggested smash mouth was about to break through for us.  I don't ever recall us being a successful smash mouth team under BB...at least not with any consistency.  We were the poster child for having to pass to set up the run. 
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

KlubhouseKonnected

If Auburn is dirty so is Gus. You can't have it both ways. Deal with it.

jvanhorn

He was just the wrong person for this program.  He was at the wrong place at the wrong time.  It happens.  I personally think it always is smart to hire a young and upcoming coach.  If it works out fine, if not you didn't pay him millions and millions of dollars of a way long contract and pretty easy to get out of.  You just keep going until you find the right person.  If he does work out then along about season 3 or4 then you give him the kind of contract that keeps him here.

Also I think he, being from the Big 10, serious, and I mean seriously, did understand how important speed is in the SEC.  Speed kills.  It is a kill or be killed conference.  They don't take any prisoners.

 

Razorback7

What went wrong? Well, the Enos hire was a bad hire. I know everyone wants a spread but we are not equipped to do the spread. Then he let the wrong line coach leave. Recruiting screw up in Texas this hurt us pretty bad. Did not stick to his fullback idea and scrapping it for the spread. Line coach once again was the wrong hire. Defense??? I have no idea on this.
That's my two cents.

RedRock

The second half of the 2016 Missouri game was the moment I realized Bret was the wrong coach.  He is either incompetent or too hard headed to make half time or in game adjustments.  Either way, half times have proven to be a major problem for him.

HF#1

Quote from: Razorback7 on November 21, 2017, 04:12:03 pm
What went wrong? Well, the Enos hire was a bad hire. I know everyone wants a spread but we are not equipped to do the spread. Then he let the wrong line coach leave. Recruiting screw up in Texas this hurt us pretty bad. Did not stick to his fullback idea and scrapping it for the spread. Line coach once again was the wrong hire.
That's my two cents.

I disagree. Enos is a good play-caller who has been handicapped by his boss not being able to bring in a capable offensive line coach and his overall general stubbornness.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

Razorback7

I disagree. He had to be told to change after the loss to Toledo because the style he wanted and what we had didn't mesh. It still doesn't mesh and will never mesh with him unable to adapt.

elviscat

I think Bert, is a nice guy but not a demanding coach. He was easy on his coaches and players and the results reflect that. He was never in the game on the sideline, it was like he is in a cloud of illusion, never making adjustments to the other teams changes during the game or during half time. You have to be driven and demanding with high expectation to accomplish the goals you lay out before, during and after the season. Perfection has to be you center of gravity.

Tejano Jawg

Quote from: Calling All Hogs on November 21, 2017, 01:05:44 pm
Letting the O-Line go from a source of strength to a major weakness.

If there's ONE surprise over all others regarding the Bielema era, it would be how he could not build and sustain dominant lines. Both offense and defense.

He wasn't a sexy former quarterback like Mike Gundy. Or a former defensive back like Saban, giving him insight into how a great defense works. Bielema was a lineman, so he could identify with those types, speak their language, give that somewhat faceless position some moxy. And consequently, I thought being dominant in the trenches—which is what you want first—would always allow us to have a shot at some great skill guys. This was going to be a great way to build the thing.

The decline, year by year, of the offensive line was easy to see but hard to understand.
Between McAfee being obnoxious and Corso decomposing before our eyes I can't even watch GameDay anymore. —Torqued Pork

ChitownHawg

Quote from: Sho Nuff on November 21, 2017, 12:53:21 pm
Besides losing too many games, what went wrong with Brett?  He seemed to be on the right track until the last 2 games of last year.  This year has been a train wreck.  I understand that we have experienced an inordinate of injuries to key players.  However, we looked bad at the very beginning of the season.  What do you think happened that caused us to spiral downward?

He under recruited olinemen against Sam's advice. He played WRs and didn't give the younger players game time.

When senior linemen graduated the QB began to get hammered, but there were some good WRs to throw to. Then the WRs left and now it is bad. Look at Bama - they are deep. Yet when your number is called you most likely have SOME game experience already.

It's called preparing your team for when the seniors leave. It allows for a smoother transition. He didn't do that with the WRs and he simply didn't recruit enough olinemen. When you have two walkons and one former Dlineman as starters - you are in trouble.
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

IronHog

Quote from: Tejano Jawg on November 21, 2017, 04:51:36 pm
If there's ONE surprise over all others regarding the Bielema era, it would be how he could not build and sustain dominant lines. Both offense and defense.

He wasn't a sexy former quarterback like Mike Gundy. Or a former defensive back like Saban, giving him insight into how a great defense works. Bielema was a lineman, so he could identify with those types, speak their language, give that somewhat faceless position some moxy. And consequently, I thought being dominant in the trenches—which is what you want first—would always allow us to have a shot at some great skill guys. This was going to be a great way to build the thing.

The decline, year by year, of the offensive line was easy to see but hard to understand.


Played Skipper and Kirkland as frosh
Tretola was a Juco


BB was building for a future that never came
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

Athog


Science Fiction Greg

Two things went way wrong:

1) Pittman to Anderson
2) Bottle
I spend all my time playing Trackmania, and various board games. You might remember me as Corndog7 or PossibleOatmeal.
Twitter sucks now. I deleted my account. I mostly just use TikTok now.

twistitup

A lack of player development cost CBB...it's ok to recruit the 'uncommon' guy, but he needs to be developed (usually more than the more 'common' recruits)

We have not developed our athletes - year 5, no SEC quality depth
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

Wildhog

It's really not hard to understand.  We didn't sign near enough OL (especially tackles).  And of those OL we signed, way too many of them were busts. 

There were problems with both evaluation and development.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

porkrindjimmy

Quote from: Sho Nuff on November 21, 2017, 12:53:21 pm
Besides losing too many games, what went wrong with Brett?  He seemed to be on the right track until the last 2 games of last year.  This year has been a train wreck.  I understand that we have experienced an inordinate of injuries to key players.  However, we looked bad at the very beginning of the season.  What do you think happened that caused us to spiral downward?

The man was in over his head from the day he was hired. He was never close to figuring it out.

PRJ

BOAR_N2BWILD

I think he tried to be a little to much of a hands off executive head coach and hired assistant coaches that were not capable of handling the job. OL coach could not coach a pee-wee team. Either our running backs coach has quit or never had it. The receivers coach appears to have quit or did not recruit good talent. He never emphasized special teams at all.
Phil. 4:13 "I can do all things through Him, who gives me strength."

Wildhog

Also, you don't hire Kurt Anderson to replace Sam Pittman.  It was a s*** stupid hire, and I said so at the time.  He wasn't in any way, shape, or form qualified to be an SEC OL coach-- especially for an offense that requires a good OL to be effective.

I'm sure he's a great drinking buddy, though.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

ChitownHawg

Quote from: SemperHawg on November 21, 2017, 01:11:50 pm
The game changed around him... People keep referring to what he he runs as a pro style offense. Have you watched a pro game lately?  They are even spreading the field and throwing it 30 plus times a game.  The running back position means less and less as we go at all levels of the game.  When he isn't running that kind of scheme it takes him out of almost any H.S. on the I-30 corridor in East Texas, and that is an area that has been vital to our success in recent history.  Couple that with not doing as well as he should in state recruiting (and by as well as he should I mean getting 95% of the top end in state guys)  and you get what we have here.  People point to the problems with the O-Line, again a style of play issue, kids these days have now played 4 or 5 years in a hurry up spread type of offense and are trying to learn a completely new technique.

I also think this leads to his lapses in judgement in talent evaluation.

I'm not saying he can't be successful somewhere else, but I do think it will take a complete re evaluation of what he puts on the field, and I just wonder if there is too much hubris there to make that change?

When we had a good line we were throwing 30 times a game. When Enos arrived he had a history of QBs throwing for several thousand yards. BA kept that trend going.

The offense began to fall apart when the line did. First the TE (Sprinkle) had to stay in to help block. This hurt the play action pass game. Now the Oline is so bad we cannot run, so the play action is really bad.

When we had a good Oline Enos spread the field.
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

Wildhog

I mean, HORRIBLE position coach hires.   
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

ChitownHawg

Quote from: 311Hog on November 21, 2017, 01:16:32 pm
His point is that virtually everyone in our conference out recruits us.

Yep, some of CBB's classes were high ranking classes for our program. Yet, the rankings were still among the bottom in the SEC.

We bring a knife to a gun fight. It only works when we have a boatload of instate recruits that are top talent.
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

roothawg

losing guys like Pittman and replacing him with far less. Not realizing speed kills and we have very little. Stckinf to a formula no matter what even when your talent tells you something different. Not being agressive on defense until this yr and not having the speed to be execute the defense.

porkrindjimmy

Quote from: Possible Oatmeal on November 21, 2017, 05:03:40 pm
Two things went way wrong:

1) Pittman to Anderson
2) Bottle

3) ran out of Bobby's players....

PRJ

PorkRinds

In my opinion, a little bit of everything went wrong.

Wildhog

Quote from: PorkRinds on November 21, 2017, 05:18:37 pm
In my opinion, a little bit of everything went wrong.

That too.

Really, though, if we had a competent OL, Bielema isn't losing his job.  That would have solved several other problems.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

ChitownHawg

Quote from: porkrindjimmy on November 21, 2017, 05:18:11 pm
3) ran out of Bobby's players....

PRJ

Totally disagree. He had good instate recruits and some good out of state. He inherited some, but he also added some. He just couldn't keep it up.
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: Wildhog on November 21, 2017, 05:08:48 pm
Also, you don't hire Kurt Anderson to replace Sam Pittman.  It was a s*** stupid hire, and I said so at the time.  He wasn't in any way, shape, or form qualified to be an SEC OL coach-- especially for an offense that requires a good OL to be effective.

I'm sure he's a great drinking buddy, though.

Without a doubt his worst hire, and it was obvious from day one.  It was ironic, too, because I always kind of viewed BB as the college version of Rex Ryan...long on bravado, short on coaching.  It made sense that he'd go out and hire a charismatic guy off Ryan's staff...if the assistant to the assistant does count as coaching staff.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

porkrindjimmy

Quote from: ChitownHawg on November 21, 2017, 05:21:19 pm
Totally disagree. He had good instate recruits and some good out of state. He inherited some, but he also added some. He just couldn't keep it up.

He was in over his head from the very beginning. He has no good sense for evaluating talent. Zero. Once Partridge bounced, the talent from Florida dried up. Pittman quit recruiting when Chaney left. Petrinos players were essential to our 3rd year and the mild success we had over the last half of the year.

No good at evaluating Talent. Horrible preparation for games. Horrible in game management....in over his head...badly.

PRJ

swinemaster

Josh Liddell.  It's all Josh Liddell's fault.