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What does " Understands Arkansas" & " gets the south "

Started by hogsanity, November 20, 2017, 09:17:21 am

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DeltaBoy

Quote from: Hogwarrior on November 20, 2017, 11:18:53 am
You do realize these are not history books and neither author is recognized in the academia world don't you?  You do know that both are the equivalent to Brietbart and the National Enquirer don't you?  Out.org and tpt.org.  Wow dude, you are way out there!


https://www.encounterbooks.com/features/northern-racism-helped-doom-reconstruction/

The information out there if you look for it.

http://civilwarbaptists.com/antebellum_inequality_north/
https://www.amazon.com/American-Counterpoint-Slavery-North-South-Dialogue/dp/0195032691
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

longpig

Quote from: Hogwarrior on November 20, 2017, 11:18:53 am
You do realize these are not history books and neither author is recognized in the academia world don't you?  You do know that both are the equivalent to Brietbart and the National Enquirer don't you?  Out.org and tpt.org.  Wow dude, you are way out there!

Delta got that link from Bazzelhoff in the Gold's Gym shower.  Post 'workout'.
Don't be scared, be smart.

 

Großer Kriegschwein

Quote from: longpig on November 20, 2017, 11:44:24 am
Delta got that link from Bazzelhoff in the Gold's Gym shower.  Post 'workout'.

Lol.

While he was handing out towels.
This is my non-signature signature.

urkillnmesmalls

Quote from: Hogtimes on November 20, 2017, 09:48:37 am
If that is true, then tell us what exactly he did say.   It seems like an accurate quote to me,  with the exception he said tight end instead of fullback.

A little off topic, but this is our country now.  YOU posted as if you KNEW the quote verbatim, and it was on record, and a fact.  Then when someone says that's not accurate, you tell THEM to find the original quote, and admit that your quote wasn't even correct. 

Same with our news.  They SAY whatever they want to say, and it isn't unless someone calls them on it being wrong that they ever change their story.  Even then...it will be the "source's" falut for the innacuracy, not theirs for reporting something without checking it out thoroughly.  Careless. 
I've never wanted a Hog coach to be successful more than I do for Pittman.  He's one of the good guys.

Mellon Collie

Quote from: hogsanity on November 20, 2017, 09:17:21 am
mean. I keep seeing that any new coach or AD has to do those two things. What does that mean exactly.

It means power and status come before winning.

hogsanity

Quote from: urkillnmesmalls on November 20, 2017, 11:50:11 am
A little off topic, but this is our country now.  YOU posted as if you KNEW the quote verbatim, and it was on record, and a fact.  Then when someone says that's not accurate, you tell THEM to find the original quote, and admit that your quote wasn't even correct. 

Same with our news.  They SAY whatever they want to say, and it isn't unless someone calls them on it being wrong that they ever change their story.  Even then...it will be the "source's" falut for the innacuracy, not theirs for reporting something without checking it out thoroughly.  Careless. 

Think about all the myths on Hogville about what JFB said about being 8th in the sec, or about certain offenses not working.  OR about JL not wanting to win games, or the above mentioned statement by BB. OR Chuck calling all Hog fans terrorists. NONE of those are ever quoted in context or in full because none of them said what Hogville CLAIMS they said.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

nwa_razorback_coffee

Quote from: Grizzlyfan on November 20, 2017, 10:46:30 am
But don't you think the world of recruiting might have changed just a wee bit since Barry's hay day?

Certainly many aspects of recruiting have changed, but one thing hasn't: relationships. Some coaches have to ability to go into the homes of these athletes and understand that you have to also recruit mom, dad, grandma, aunt, etc. For many of these recruits, the economic conditions have not changed much at all in the last 30 years.

Also, we're a small state and coaches talk. The same is true with Texas coaches (albeit more in regions than statewide). When you don't have a strong relationship with high school coaches in a region, you cut off the pipeline that might land you the next diamond in the rough.

Sometimes, it's just about being at the right place at the right time. I hope that in the coming years when I get a Friday text message with a picture of a college coach sitting in the stands for a high school game that I'll get fewer pictures of Coach Saban and more of the Arkansas head coach.

A lot has been said on here about CBB's weight and looks. For the most part, these have been unnecessary cheap shots. However, if players don't think you have discipline, deep down they won't respect you. Even worse, in some instances they begin to emulate you. Last year, before the Alabama game, I pointed out to some friends the differences in the coaching staffs between the two teams: their pregame demeanor, stature, and activity. Saban was stoic like a feared general. CBB was stumbling around like it was the first day of middle school two-a-days.

PS: I threw in the 2 NFL greats because they too understood it's all about relationships and respect.

Hogwarrior

Quote from: DeltaBoy on November 20, 2017, 11:32:21 am

https://www.encounterbooks.com/features/northern-racism-helped-doom-reconstruction/

The information out there if you look for it.

http://civilwarbaptists.com/antebellum_inequality_north/
https://www.amazon.com/American-Counterpoint-Slavery-North-South-Dialogue/dp/0195032691

Dude!  There's more information out there about UFOs, Bigfoot, Lochness, and trees that talk or gold at the end of the rainbow!  Those four links you provided still are not based in fact, they are based in opinion from a fringe source to get clicks from the tin foil hat wearing folk like you!

"DER SOUF SURL RISE AGERN!" LMAO!  Dude, the war is over and the south lost!  It's time to come into the REAL world!  LMAO!

bphi11ips

I haven't seen "understands Arkansas" or "gets the south" used anywhere in the media or in press releases.  Are you putting in your own words what you perceive to be qualities some desire in a new AD and football coach?

I assume that "understands Arkansas" and "gets the south" are two separate issues.  The first is related to the state, its culture and its traditions as they relate to Razorbacks football.  The second is related to recruiting.

It has never occurred to me that CBB or his staff had any problem relating to southern recruits or their families.  I don't think that has been the case, nor do I recall seeing others express that opinion.  The University of Arkansas has inherent geographic and demographic challenges when it comes to recruiting the deep south. I have always questioned CBB's theory that he could effectively recruit Florida.  I have always said that he didn't understand the importance of recruiting the DFW/northeast Texas territory.  But by-and-large, CBB has won more recruiting battles for big-time recruits than any of his predecessors.  I think Richard Davenport would tell you that.  He has put more players in the NFL as a percentage of his recruits than any coach I can remember.  Maybe Petrino did with the great skill players he was able to sign from Arkansas.  I don't think recruiting was an issue for the BOT.

What I do believe is that the BOT was concerned that Jeff Long alienated much of the fan and alumni base outside of NWA.  I believe they think he did that because he did not understand the foundation of the university or the football team as it relates to the entire state and the power brokers behind them.  I think he certainly must have come to understand them better over time, but he may also have initially been under the impression that he was hired to change the culture of the program and remove the influence of the powerful.  That's what the majority of Hogville posters appeared to want in 2007.  Whether Hogville had any direct influence on the changes within the athletic department or whether it was just a barometer of the feelings of the fanbase is anyone's guess.  It was probably a bit of both.  But Long appeared to set out from day one to execute the Hogville mandate - get rid of the GOBN. 

Long seems to have developed a disdain for games at WMS after he was hired.  Whether he was buoyed in that disdain by Hogville's disdain for WMS is anyone's guess.  I suspect that Long, like everyone else who gauges public opinion on issues for which they are responsible, viewed opinions expressed in social media as a barometer, and he believed the wind was blowing in the direction of NWA where the GSD is concerned. 

I've written on this subject here for years and have always said that whether games stay in Little Rock or not was not the question where Long was concerned.  Whether it was accurate or not, Long created the perception that he had nothing but disdain for WMS and, to a lesser extent, the Little Rock fanbase.  Long did that primarily by being silent and aloof. Giving Little Rock a string of the worst football games ever played there was an exclamation point.  CBB let us know his feelings about Little Rock and WMS more directly with pre and post-game comments.  In spite of their personal opinions, had Long and CBB understood the history of the football program and where the foundation for it was built, you would think they would have been careful to come across as respectful.  It is mind boggling to some that they didn't.

The rebranding efforts were a lesser factor but were also important in creating the impression that Long and Bielema thought they knew better than Arkansans what Arkansas's football team needed.  Few brands in college football are stronger than the Razorbacks' uniforms and running Razorback logo.  The "secondary" front facing Hog logo may have been just an effort to create demand for new products, one that the head coach had to market in accordance with contracts intended to generate revenue for Razorbacks athletics.  But the front facing Hog seemed to dominate CBB's attire.  It took up the full left breast of his windbreaker one Saturday this year when he wore one that also bore his initials.  That windbreaker generated some negative comments here.  I noticed that he wore the traditional small hog on the left breast at his next press conference, and it seems the forward facing, giant hog has been less prominent since.  A large majority of Hogville posters polled recently want it gone.

Another thing that didn't come off the way I think CBB intended was "throwing the A" and his move to make "woo pig" a branding item in much the same way that "Roll Tide" is for Alabama.  While neither is necessarily a bad idea, when it feels forced by the head coach, fans can resent it.

Coaches come and go.  Fans of college football teams tend to hang around for a lifetime.  Brand identifiers don't come and go with coaching staffs.  It is one thing when Hugo Bezdek says his undefeated Razorbacks fought like a wild band of razorback hogs and the media and fans run with it.  That was organic.  The legend is one of the things that make the name iconic.  Folks passing through don't tinker with iconic brands.  While they are winning or appear to be building something it is one thing.  When they are losing and the worm has turned, those attempts to change the culture come across as sticking one's nose in where it doesn't belong.

When Bret Bielema arrived at Arkansas, he told us he came to bring us something we had never had before.  Maybe he honestly didn't understand that Arkansas was historically at least as strong as Wisconsin when he arrived.  Jeff Long appeared to be aloof and often came across as disdainful of Arkansas in general.  Maybe he wasn't, but his bedside manner left something to be desired.

The simple fact that Jeff Long is from the north is not the reason he has been referred to as a "carpetbagger".  I may have been one of the first here to refer to him that way.  It was a historical reference, not a geographical reference, nor a suggestion that Arkansas must have an AD or a head coach from the South.  "Yankees" and "carpetbaggers" were not the same thing, not at all.  Most here don't understand that.  "Carpetbaggers" was the name given to northerners who exploited conditions in the South after the Civil War to enrich themselves. Jeff Long gave many the impression that he believed himself to be superior to the backward inbreds who had been running Arkansas's football program for decades.  To a great extent, fans who expressed their opinions, including on Hogville, gave him a license to do that. 

Jeff Long appears to have been a very good administrator.  By all accounts to date, he left the athletic department in better financial shape than he found it in.  UA facilities and athletic programs overall have never been better.  Jeff Long may have been a good politician within academic and AD circles, but he had no political skills when it came to the majority of fans and power brokers.  In short, he backed the wrong horse.   

The BOT realizes these things.  They don't care about southern roots in an AD or football coach.  They care about stopping the hemorrhaging in statewide support for the Razorbacks.  They know that support for the Razorbacks is tied at the hip to support for the university.  It is not about personal access or influence.  BOT and so-called GOBN members already have both.  What they care about at the end of the day is the future of the University of Arkansas.  Everything else is secondary.   

         

Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

Hogwarrior

This is a good thread though and it just proves how silly it is for some to make such a statement!  They've proven they can't define what it is exactly.  Most have said it means what can be said for most coaches anywhere in the country.  It's just country arse hick talk that has nothing to do with anything!  It's 2017 folks, not 1876 or 1960!  Can we move on PALEEEEEZE!

hogsanity

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 20, 2017, 12:05:34 pm
I haven't seen "understands Arkansas" or "gets the south" used anywhere in the media or in press releases.  Are you putting in your own words what you perceive to be qualities some desire in a new AD and football coach?

I assume that "understands Arkansas" and "gets the south" are two separate issues.  The first is related to the state, its culture and its traditions as they relate to Razorbacks football.  The second is related to recruiting.

The BOT realizes these things.  They don't care about southern roots in an AD or football coach.  They care about stopping the hemorrhaging in statewide support for the Razorbacks.  They know that support for the Razorbacks is tied at the hip to support for the university.  It is not about personal access or influence.  BOT and so-called GOBN members already have both.  What they care about at the end of the day is the future of the University of Arkansas.  Everything else is secondary.   


I was referring to people on Hogville waiting a coach and AD that understands Arkansas and gets the south

So we are back to having to do what no other state wide program has to do in other football crazxy states, cater to the fans by talking games to them, having cheap tickets ( even though Hog tickets are already cheap compared to many schools ) and somehow hire great coaches on a pauper salary. Yea, this is going to end predictably.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

rzrbackramsfan

Quote from: RyanMallettsEgo on November 20, 2017, 10:01:25 am
A head football coach at an SEC school doesn't understand winning is important?

That's a spicy take on a Monday morning.

Man, I think Bret and Jeff knew it was important but didn't know just how important it was.  That's why long was completely blindsided and why Bret just doesn't get all the outside negativity. 

I grew up in Missouri, their desire to win is amateur considered to Arkansas. 

In the SEC, it just means more.  Even if they understood how important it was, though, it wouldn't have made a difference.  They just aren't great football minds, period.

EastexHawg

Quote from: DoctorSusscrofa on November 20, 2017, 09:21:13 am
It means many Southerners biased and bigoted, and that they will hate on people that aren't from around here. BB and Long were hated even before they failed to accomplish what fans wanted.

Right, because anyone who correctly predicted that Long would destroy the football program and that first John L. Smith and then Bret Bielema would be the instruments he would use to accomplish the task couldn't have just understood Arkansas, the SEC, and football in general...he had to be a bigot.

 

bphi11ips

Quote from: hogsanity on November 20, 2017, 12:13:21 pm
I was referring to people on Hogville waiting a coach and AD that understands Arkansas and gets the south

So we are back to having to do what no other state wide program has to do in other football crazxy states, cater to the fans by talking games to them, having cheap tickets ( even though Hog tickets are already cheap compared to many schools ) and somehow hire great coaches on a pauper salary. Yea, this is going to end predictably.

Fair enough with respect to who you are talking about.  I disagree with what I think is your cynical view about how things are going to turn out.  You seem like so many others to believe the BOT should do what you think is the obvious choice.  You see it only as a question of whether one or more games is played in Little Rock.  You see a very nice stadium on campus that is about to be even nicer and ask "Who in their right minds would play a game in an old, out-of-date stadium that seats 20,000 fewer fans than this one?"  Your answer is "no one", and you believe those in charge should say to those who don't like moving all games out of Little Rock to "deal with it".

As I just said and have said many times here before, the issue is broader than the GSD.  Tommy Tubberville was right when he said that every situation is different.  Jeff Long presented his Power Point presentation on WMS to Governor Hutchinson in late October.  The Governor said in a statement that he "appreciated" meeting with Long and Steinmetz on the future of Razorback football at WMS and further stated "I expressed that I thought it beneficial for the Razorback program to have games in Little Rock."

This issue is not going to be resolved to appease a bunch of spoiled rednecks too lazy to drive to Fayetteville.  It is not a power play by the GOBN.  It has ben debated at the highest level by people concerned with the best interests of the university and the state, and that is how it will continue to be handled, whether Hogville posters or anyone else, regardless of where they live, like it.         
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

Porkette

I wish Arkansas could find some balance between purging anyone with Arkansas ties (basically what Jeff Long did and was hired by John White to do), and rejecting anyone who does not have Arkansas ties (where we might be headed with the GOB network back in charge). I don't think either attitude is healthy for our program.

As far as our football coach, there is surely some truth to the idea that having coaches who understand recruiting in our area and know what they are getting into in the SEC matters. Bielema seems to have really struggled with these things.

But "understands the culture of the south" probably gets overblown a little bit. CBB was a down-home Iowa farm boy who enjoys chatting and telling funny stories. Not exactly  much cultural difference there. Yet he was a bad fit for Arkansas and Bobby Petrino was not, because it's ultimately all about winning.
GO HOGS GO!

hogsanity

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 20, 2017, 12:33:58 pm
Fair enough with respect to who you are talking about.  I disagree with what I think is your cynical view about how things are going to turn out.  You seem like so many others to believe the BOT should do what you think is the obvious choice.  You see it only as a question of whether one or more games is played in Little Rock.  You see a very nice stadium on campus that is about to be even nicer and ask "Who in their right minds would play a game in an old, out-of-date stadium that seats 20,000 fewer fans than this one?"  Your answer is "no one", and you believe those in charge should say to those who don't like moving all games out of Little Rock to "deal with it".

As I just said and have said many times here before, the issue is broader than the GSD.  Tommy Tubberville was right when he said that every situation is different.  Jeff Long presented his Power Point presentation on WMS to Governor Hutchinson in late October.  The Governor said in a statement that he "appreciated" meeting with Long and Steinmetz on the future of Razorback football at WMS and further stated "I expressed that I thought it beneficial for the Razorback program to have games in Little Rock."

This issue is not going to be resolved to appease a bunch of spoiled rednecks too lazy to drive to Fayetteville.  It is not a power play by the GOBN.  It has ben debated at the highest level by people concerned with the best interests of the university and the state, and that is how it will continue to be handled, whether Hogville posters or anyone else, regardless of where they live, like it.         

I said keep playing a game in LR. My problem with that is the demand that it be a SEC game or a marquee OOC game.

As for the benefits to the program, the only on that is real is if big donors are going to pull their funding if they do not play in LR. There are no other real tangible benefits to playing in LR. All the other stuff is emotional.

But it is all just another example of how many Arkansans just pine away for the good old days, and that attitude has cost Arkansas so much as a state.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

PorkSoda

as to the OP

"understanding arkansas" is not about some sort of southern idealism.  it about really "understanding" arkansas, ie has connections and knows people in arkansas has the ability to work with them to better the football program.

I think this is absolutely necessary for the AD position.  and would be a bonus for the HC, as improving arkansas HS football through a working relationship with the University is good for the state and the program.
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity." ― Edgar Allan Poe
"If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real." – Niels Bohr
"A mind stretched to a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions" ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
Quote from: PonderinHog on August 07, 2023, 06:37:15 pmYeah, we're all here, but we ain't all there.

Wants2Win

Someone that understands it takes the whole state on board to have a decent program. NWA cannot support this program on its own. Look at the last couple of home games/mizzou attendance. We need people who believe we can compete/ win calling the shots, not the hogsanitys of the world.

bphi11ips

Quote from: hogsanity on November 20, 2017, 12:39:38 pm
I said keep playing a game in LR. My problem with that is the demand that it be a SEC game or a marquee OOC game.

As for the benefits to the program, the only on that is real is if big donors are going to pull their funding if they do not play in LR. There are no other real tangible benefits to playing in LR. All the other stuff is emotional.

But it is all just another example of how many Arkansans just pine away for the good old days, and that attitude has cost Arkansas so much as a state.

I don't see it that way.  There is a difference in pining away for the good ole days and examining what made the good ole days good to begin with.

As I see it, the "good ole days" were the result of three things:

(1) weaker schedule;
(2) better coaches;
(3) united fanbase and statewide recruiting base.

Number one is not going to change as long as we are in the SEC.  Number 2 and number 3 is where the focus is right now. 
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

Rustyhog

Quote from: DoctorSusscrofa on November 20, 2017, 09:21:13 am
It means many Southerners biased and bigoted, and that they will hate on people that aren't from around here. BB and Long were hated even before they failed to accomplish what fans wanted.

Yet another moronic, uneducated opinion.

It MEANS, understanding the history and traditions of the University. Not belittling and thumbing your nose at things like the HOG CALL WHICH the former AD did on a regular basis. If you move INTO an area that is somewhat foreign to you, you need to learn and adapt. DO NOT EXPECT OTHERS TO CHANGE BECAUSE OF YOU.

IT MEANS understanding how important it is to recruit Texas and NOT insult every High School coach in that state. Which the CURRENT FOOTBALL COACH HAS DONE!

It means understanding  that we wave at people we don't know when we pass them on a back road.

It means NOT wearing a coat & tie at a pool party.

It means NOT wearing a coat & tie when invited to duck hunt. 

It means we speak TO people, not AT people.

There are many places outside the South that WE don't understand & areas WE would NOT fit into either. Not to say they are WRONG, just not something some of us would understand or like. BUT, Southerners seem to be more liked because they are unique and approachable. Long was NOT approachable.

On a side note, I hear a lot of folks from the north want to move/retire in the south. I haven't ever heard ANYONE ever say they wanted to retire up north.

IronHog

Quote from: hogsanity on November 20, 2017, 09:17:21 am
mean. I keep seeing that any new coach or AD has to do those two things. What does that mean exactly.


Coach not like you mostly
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

hogsanity

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 20, 2017, 12:56:04 pm

and statewide recruiting base.



I so wish there was a way for people that keeping talking about instate recruiting to watch AR hS football, and then watch HS football from MS, TX, LA, Ga, AL, FLA, SC, TN. Then maybe people would give up on this idea ( not saying you have this idea ) that the answer lies with in state talent.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

urkillnmesmalls

Quote from: Occams Razorback on November 20, 2017, 10:52:59 am

It means that we won't have 90% of our athletic administration from out of state - including folks at the highest level who only see fans as a means to an end - they don't get that the Razorbacks are all we have and a great source of pride for the entire state - to them it's just another job - I've seen it personally at the highest level of the administration and their administrative assistants - they don't care who you are, how much you've given in the past, that you graduated from the UA, that your grandmother graduated from the UA, that you plan your days and holidays and vacations around the Razorbacks and that you can't sleep for days on end when you lose a game - they don't know about the 1969 Texas game or U.S. Reed's half court shot or beating NC in Pine Bluff - do they even know we played in Pine Bluff? if they have heard about it, they don't really care - just another good game or play by some player or some team

Yankees can be great people obviously but often just don't get it - sounds as if you don't either

I get what you're saying on one level, agree on one level, but also understand that reality doesn't always meet perception. 

If you are a salesperson in Arkansas, you need to greet your client, take an interest in them, maybe find something in their office, and have a brief conversation to break the ice, and find some common ground that you share.  Without that, you'll probably be considered as cold and only interested in "selling something."  That's if they are FROM the south, and it doesn't always hold true.  Some people from the south don't care for that either, but you won't OFFEND them with that approach. 

If you're up north, say New York, and you TRY to greet your client like that, you're done.  They don't care.  Their first two questions are, "What are you selling, and how much is it?"  If they like what they hear, you get a shot...if they don't, it's down the road to the next client. 

That's what "southern charm" is really all about.  It's the social banter that we perceive as being a genuine caring about other people.  To people from the north, which has historically been thought of as a more "hectic and fast paced" life, they don't care about that. 

Without possessing the ability to recognize that and play by those rules, you're going to alienate people from the south.  I don't know if that's necessarily warranted or not, and I'm not interested in arguing that, but it's a real and tangible thing, whether people deny it or not.

"Yeah, I've been a long time Razorback and my grandmother graduated here in 1949, and she was a cheerleader." 

Southern AD response:  "I'm glad you followed your grandmother's footsteps and you've been helping root on the Hogs for all these years.  Been ups and downs right?  No one in my family went to the UA, but my grandmother went to _________, and she wasn't a cheerleader, but she went to every game and loved sports.  Her name was Ethel, and I love those "old school" names from that era.  What was your grandmother's name?  (Answer...and then "Oh, that was my aunt's name...blah, blah, blah)  Common ground....achieved.   

I hope your kids come to the UA too, and their kids do too.  I appreciate your support for the Razorbacks, and Go Hogs." 

Northern AD response:  "Glad you love the Razorbacks, and we appreciate your support.  We sure hope you continue your support, renew your season tickets, and Go Hogs."

Subtle difference....but that's what makes you "from the south."     
I've never wanted a Hog coach to be successful more than I do for Pittman.  He's one of the good guys.

IronHog

Quote from: hogsanity on November 20, 2017, 12:58:50 pm
I so wish there was a way for people that keeping talking about instate recruiting to watch AR hS football, and then watch HS football from MS, TX, LA, Ga, AL, FLA, SC, TN. Then maybe people would give up on this idea ( not saying you have this idea ) that the answer lies with in state talent.


Get out of the hills yuppie


Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

 

jgphillips3

Quote from: hogsanity on November 20, 2017, 12:58:50 pm
I so wish there was a way for people that keeping talking about instate recruiting to watch AR hS football, and then watch HS football from MS, TX, LA, Ga, AL, FLA, SC, TN. Then maybe people would give up on this idea ( not saying you have this idea ) that the answer lies with in state talent.

You are right about the difference.  However, if we could get Little Rock and Pine Bluff back to producing 2-4 high D1 players a year, it would make a hell of a difference.  Especially since a lot of those kids aren't even playing football now that could be prospects.  Sure, they would be raw compared to other States, but raw works out with a good staff.

bphi11ips

Quote from: hogsanity on November 20, 2017, 12:58:50 pm
I so wish there was a way for people that keeping talking about instate recruiting to watch AR hS football, and then watch HS football from MS, TX, LA, Ga, AL, FLA, SC, TN. Then maybe people would give up on this idea ( not saying you have this idea ) that the answer lies with in state talent.

Here's what I know based upon my personal experience and the numbers:

Arkansas has 3 million citizens, approximately 500,000 of whom are of African American descent. 

Arkansas's citizens are as big, strong and fast on average as the citizens of any other state.

There is no other college football program in Arkansas that has ever seriously competed with the Razorbacks for the biggest, strongest fastest in-state recruits.

Arkansas high school football is not as comparatively bad as you say it is.  Don't know how much high school football you have seen outside of Arkansas.  I have seen enough in Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky and Arkansas over the last few years to tell you that there is not that much difference at the highest level.  I understand the issues with small school districts, but college football coaches find athletes where they live.  Not all of them live in major metropolitan areas.  That is just where the numbers are. 

You're theory concerning inferior Arkansas athletes is bunk. 

Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

hogsanity

Quote from: jgphillips3 on November 20, 2017, 01:16:10 pm
You are right about the difference.  However, if we could get Little Rock and Pine Bluff back to producing 2-4 high D1 players a year, it would make a hell of a difference.  Especially since a lot of those kids aren't even playing football now that could be prospects.  Sure, they would be raw compared to other States, but raw works out with a good staff.

But here is the reality, those kids are not playing, and it will take years to change the culture there, if that is possible at all. So counting on in state players right now is fools gold. Nothing wrong with trying to improve those areas so that one day they may again produce those type players, but to say a coach NOW needs to be focusing on getting more in state signees is just ludicrous.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Porkette

Quote from: Wants2Win on November 20, 2017, 12:54:43 pm
Someone that understands it takes the whole state on board to have a decent program. NWA cannot support this program on its own.

I never understand what people are referring to, specifically, when they say this.

If it's all about playing games in Little Rock, we can have that discussion, but it needs to be a practical discussion (for example, who's going to put in the money to fix up War Memorial Stadium, will it be good or bad for recruiting, etc). But when has Arkansas ever not wanted the support of the whole state?
GO HOGS GO!

hogsanity

Quote from: Porkette on November 20, 2017, 01:21:50 pm

But when has Arkansas ever not wanted the support of the whole state?


Just look at the comments made some on this board about NWA. There are many people in AR that are jealous to the point of obsession over what NWA has become.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Wants2Win

Quote from: Porkette on November 20, 2017, 01:21:50 pm
I never understand what people are referring to, specifically, when they say this.

If it's all about playing games in Little Rock, we can have that discussion, but it needs to be a practical discussion (for example, who's going to put in the money to fix up War Memorial Stadium, will it be good or bad for recruiting, etc). But when has Arkansas ever not wanted the support of the whole state?
They are pricing the average fan out. The luxury suite expansion is stupid as well. Arkansas football is not about luxury boxes.

RME

Quote from: Wants2Win on November 20, 2017, 01:29:56 pm
They are pricing the average fan out. The luxury suite expansion is stupid as well. Arkansas football is not about luxury boxes.

I've seen this quote a lot today. Arkansas was ranked 10th/14th in the SEC in ticket prices last year.

You all want the university to make money money money but aren't willing to pay.

hogsanity

Quote from: Wants2Win on November 20, 2017, 01:29:56 pm
They are pricing the average fan out. The luxury suite expansion is stupid as well. Arkansas football is not about luxury boxes.

Arkansas still has some of the least expensive tickets in all of P5 football.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Wants2Win

I want the product on the field to be worth the price of admission. It's not. Look at the crowds.

TOM "tbw1"

Common sense is when someone agrees with your point of view.  If you take that as a starting point then you can understand how cockeyed this debate is.

Arkansas is the poorest state in the SEC with the possible exception of Mississippi.  Therefore we have to make the best use of our resources as possible.  Financially, the program is in better financial shape than it is has ever been.  We have the facilities in place to compete in the SEC for the first time ever.

However, look at what we are debating.  "I can't stand Pepsi being sold at the stadium."  "I want to play Arkansas State."  "I don't like the turf."  "A businessman hurt my feelings."

The premier program in the nation is the Alabama Crimson Tide.  We should follow their example and play as many games in WMS as they do in Legion Field.  We should hire a coach like Nick Saban who is a direct descendant of Robert E. Lee and Paul W. Bryant. 

There is no easy fix for the Arkansas football program.  Just like there is no easy fix for the EOE-W or EOE-E (spit).  It is going to take someone who is willing to work 30 hour days eight days a week with a pocket full of four leaf clovers and rabbit feet for luck. 

No one enjoys the football we have had since the Auburn game last year but to think that someone with Southern heritage can fix everything is laughable.  If that were true I would volunteer because with my historical education about the War of Northern Aggression I am the perfect choice.  That won't happen.

We cannot afford to play in WMS and give up a time for recruits to have official visits.  We cannot afford turf wars.  Frank Broyles and his Sunday afternoon TV show are not coming back.  (God bless you, Coach.  I miss you.) 

Let us put our money into recruiting and assistant coaches.  Alabama vets their visits before they make them. Alabama assistants are in demand as head coaches.  Not ours.  Let's hire some that would be.

Forget the past and move forward.
Well see, there's your problem. What you should be thinking is, what would Harry Rex do?

Sivad

Quote from: hogsanity on November 20, 2017, 09:17:21 am
mean. I keep seeing that any new coach or AD has to do those two things. What does that mean exactly.
Afraid it means:
Lower ticket prices
Move their seats where they want them
Give the the parking pass lot they want
Don't provide nicer seats to those willing to pay for them
Wear only 1964 uniforms
Coke no Pepsi
Lose whatever $ it takes to play in WMS
Walk the guy who contributes nothing and bought his ticket cheap on Stub Hub through the A not some "fat cat" longtime financial donor
Stop raising money by selling ads on the Jumbotron

TOM "tbw1"

Quote from: Wants2Win on November 20, 2017, 01:38:47 pm
I want the product on the field to be worth the price of admission. It's not. Look at the crowds.

What is your solution that would make that happen?
Well see, there's your problem. What you should be thinking is, what would Harry Rex do?

Wants2Win

Money isn't the issue. Coaching and having a winning culture around the program is.

TOM "tbw1"

Quote from: Sivad on November 20, 2017, 01:38:58 pm
Afraid it means:
Lower ticket prices
Move their seats where they want them
Give the the parking pass lot they want
Don't provide nicer seats to those willing to pay for them
Wear only 1964 uniforms
Coke no Pepsi
Lose whatever $ it takes to play in WMS
Walk the guy who contributes nothing and bought his ticket cheap on Stub Hub through the A not some "fat cat" longtime financial donor
Stop raising money by selling ads on the Jumbotron


Travel to all the games by train.
Well see, there's your problem. What you should be thinking is, what would Harry Rex do?

jvanhorn

Quote from: hawgon on November 20, 2017, 09:18:27 am
It means, that unlike you, they value our past accomplishments and traditions and don't do all they can to dsicount them and belittle them 24/7.

This is right but, also, Arkansas is really not in thee South, like Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama... I call that the deep south.  Arkansas and southern Missouri
sort of make up a region that I would call the shallow South., especially up around the northern part of the state.  Way more hills and mountains than flat cotton growing land.  Same with Louisiana.  With its bayous and large Cajun population they are really different that the deep south--or anywhere else for that matter, lol.

TOM "tbw1"

Quote from: Wants2Win on November 20, 2017, 01:29:56 pm
They are pricing the average fan out. The luxury suite expansion is stupid as well. Arkansas football is not about luxury boxes.
Quote from: Wants2Win on November 20, 2017, 01:42:52 pm
Money isn't the issue. Coaching and having a winning culture around the program is.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. 
Well see, there's your problem. What you should be thinking is, what would Harry Rex do?

OLDHOG

Quote from: Occams Razorback on November 20, 2017, 10:52:59 am

It means that we won’t have 90% of our athletic administration from out of state - including folks at the highest level who only see fans as a means to an end - they don’t get that the Razorbacks are all we have and a great source of pride for the entire state - to them it’s just another job - I’ve seen it personally at the highest level of the administration and their administrative assistants - they don’t care who you are, how much you’ve given in the past, that you graduated from the UA, that your grandmother graduated from the UA, that you plan your days and holidays and vacations around the Razorbacks and that you can’t sleep for days on end when you lose a game - they don’t know about the 1969 Texas game or U.S. Reed’s half court shot or beating NC in Pine Bluff - do they even know we played in Pine Bluff? if they have heard about it, they don’t really care - just another good game or play by some player or some team

Yankees can be great people obviously but often just don’t get it - sounds as if you don’t either
+1

Wants2Win

Quote from: TOM "tbw1" on November 20, 2017, 01:44:45 pm
You seem to be contradicting yourself.
The U of A doesn't need more money. They need to win games. Winning brings in money....not the other way around.

TOM "tbw1"

Quote from: Occams Razorback on November 20, 2017, 10:52:59 am

It means that we won't have 90% of our athletic administration from out of state - including folks at the highest level who only see fans as a means to an end - they don't get that the Razorbacks are all we have and a great source of pride for the entire state - to them it's just another job - I've seen it personally at the highest level of the administration and their administrative assistants - they don't care who you are, how much you've given in the past, that you graduated from the UA, that your grandmother graduated from the UA, that you plan your days and holidays and vacations around the Razorbacks and that you can't sleep for days on end when you lose a game - they don't know about the 1969 Texas game or U.S. Reed's half court shot or beating NC in Pine Bluff - do they even know we played in Pine Bluff? if they have heard about it, they don't really care - just another good game or play by some player or some team

Yankees can be great people obviously but often just don't get it - sounds as if you don't either

Exactly how many years ago did that happen and how is relevant to today's athletes who will putting on the Razorback uniform?  Winning games does not come from massaging my graybeard ego.
Well see, there's your problem. What you should be thinking is, what would Harry Rex do?

hogsanity

I finally found the perfect coach for some of you guys.



People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE


Hogwarrior

Quote from: PorkSoda on November 20, 2017, 12:51:08 pm
as to the OP

"understanding arkansas" is not about some sort of southern idealism.  it about really "understanding" arkansas, ie has connections and knows people in arkansas has the ability to work with them to better the football program.

I think this is absolutely necessary for the AD position.  and would be a bonus for the HC, as improving arkansas HS football through a working relationship with the University is good for the state and the program.

Ahhhh, dude!  No college FB team has ANY influence on improving HS FB other than offering camps which the UofA has been doing for many years!  That's silly talk!

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 20, 2017, 01:20:37 pm
Here's what I know based upon my personal experience and the numbers:

Arkansas has 3 million citizens, approximately 500,000 of whom are of African American descent. 

Arkansas's citizens are as big, strong and fast on average as the citizens of any other state.

There is no other college football program in Arkansas that has ever seriously competed with the Razorbacks for the biggest, strongest fastest in-state recruits.

Arkansas high school football is not as comparatively bad as you say it is.  Don't know how much high school football you have seen outside of Arkansas.  I have seen enough in Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky and Arkansas over the last few years to tell you that there is not that much difference at the highest level.  I understand the issues with small school districts, but college football coaches find athletes where they live.  Not all of them live in major metropolitan areas.  That is just where the numbers are. 

You're theory concerning inferior Arkansas athletes is bunk.
You are correct.  Those 4 or 5 top athletes in Arkansas are every bit as good as the 50 from Ga, 30 from La, 25 from Al and 15 from Tenn on their level. 

We need to get all of these Arkansas boys going to La Tech, Ar St, Missouri State, ULM.  Just not looking hard enough. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

TOM "tbw1"

Quote from: Wants2Win on November 20, 2017, 01:42:52 pm
Money isn't the issue. Coaching and having a winning culture around the program is.

My dear friend and colleague, have you ever been to Tuscaloosa?  The city is totally drenches in a winning culture.  From Coach Bryant to Coach Saban seven men were head coaches.  The only one with Alabama success was Coach Stallings.  I say this to make a minor point.  There is no easy fix to the problem.  To make it simplistic is disingenuous at best.
Well see, there's your problem. What you should be thinking is, what would Harry Rex do?

hobhog

Quote from: hogsanity on November 20, 2017, 11:02:07 am
As I suspected, the people saying it can not even define it. It appears to be an amalgamation of see the need to cater to the folk in LR, sign every in state kid that wants to play for the Hogs ( regardless of actual SEC talent ability ), not let the GOBN runs things, but at the same time keep the GOBN happy, know that we want to win games ( like every other program, not really unique to Arkansas ), not let anyone from north of the mason dixon line run anything at the UofA, and in general act like the civil war is still being fought.

Very telling. Such anger. I'm guessing this is personal for you somehow.

Regardless, I'll give my two cents. I think coach B did a great job selling the university and traveling the state making people from all corners feel included. He actually seemed to enjoy it. I don't think many can say that about Long. He didn't seem to enjoy the statewide hand pressing required. I think he did a good job overall but was very arrogant behind the scenes and lost too many supporters.

And most importantly: I think the anthracite unis got both of them. Just bad karma from day one.

Hogwarrior

Quote from: Rustyhog on November 20, 2017, 12:57:52 pm
Yet another moronic, uneducated opinion.

It MEANS, understanding the history and traditions of the University. Not belittling and thumbing your nose at things like the HOG CALL WHICH the former AD did on a regular basis. If you move INTO an area that is somewhat foreign to you, you need to learn and adapt. DO NOT EXPECT OTHERS TO CHANGE BECAUSE OF YOU.

IT MEANS understanding how important it is to recruit Texas and NOT insult every High School coach in that state. Which the CURRENT FOOTBALL COACH HAS DONE!

It means understanding  that we wave at people we don't know when we pass them on a back road.

It means NOT wearing a coat & tie at a pool party.

It means NOT wearing a coat & tie when invited to duck hunt. 

It means we speak TO people, not AT people.

There are many places outside the South that WE don't understand & areas WE would NOT fit into either. Not to say they are WRONG, just not something some of us would understand or like. BUT, Southerners seem to be more liked because they are unique and approachable. Long was NOT approachable.

On a side note, I hear a lot of folks from the north want to move/retire in the south. I haven't ever heard ANYONE ever say they wanted to retire up north.

LMAO!  I think this is a moronic and uneducated post!  LMAO!  First, I don't care what anybody wear to a pool party, even if it's mine.  What would you prefer, a tobacco stained pair of overalls?  Second, who cares if he duck hunts?  Third, it depends on the personalities of those of which one is speaking.  I've had a lot of Arkansans talk at me rather than to me.  Fourth, who told you southerners are more liked, a southerner? Fifth, when did Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana, or Bama become a retirement destination to anyone other than those who grew up there?  And last but not least, people retire to FL and TX to benefit themselves due to the tax codes in those two states and the climate of Arizona!  LMAO!