split vear

[snoop hawgy hawg]

Am I stupid for thinking Enos and CBB. Should throw a little wishbone in the offense this year??
" I run 6 plays..all split vears." Lol

[ErieHog]

The split veer is more than dated-- it is a style that requires a certain skill set from the offensive line, that is largely absent in the modern game.

It'd be a disaster if attempted.

[Inhogswetrust]

Am I stupid for thinking Enos and CBB. Should throw a little wishbone in the offense this year??
" I run 6 plays..all split vears." Lol

What's a vear? I know what a veer is though.

[Inhogswetrust]

The split veer is more than dated-- it is a style that requires a certain skill set from the offensive line, that is largely absent in the modern game.

It'd be a disaster if attempted.

The bone is dated also but GT runs it pretty good.............ANY offense can be successful if done well.

[ErieHog]

The bone is dated also but GT runs it pretty good.............ANY offense can be successful if done well.

They do it by recruiting a type of personnel that does the things that the offense ask.  We don't have the right people for it.

[hoggusamoungus]

Am I stupid for thinking Enos and CBB. Should throw a little wishbone in the offense this year??
" I run 6 plays..all split vears." Lol

Only if Barry Sanders is the running back.....

[Inhogswetrust]

They do it by recruiting a type of personnel that does the things that the offense ask.  We don't have the right people for it.

I understand and agree. ANY team has to recruit for the style they run to some degree if not heavily. No matter what the players still have to perform well.

[Inhogswetrust]

Only if Barry Sanders is the running back.....

Did OSU run the veer back then?

[jgphillips3]

Is it possible for us to incorporate option principles?  Yes.  However, to actually run any option it has to be drilled, drilled, drilled and drilled to perfection.  Well, that is unless we are just gonna stick Peanut Adams in and run it this one game. 

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Did OSU run the veer back then?

No, I don't think so.

Despite the spread offenses of today, Sanders' numbers are staggering. He made 300-yard rushing games (four in 1988) almost seem common place, especially when everyone on the defense knew who was carrying the football. In '88 alone, Sanders piled up 2,850 yards rushing and scored an incredible 42 touchdowns—five in a three-quarter Holiday Bowl performance.


http://www.okstate.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/082608aaa.html

[Mike_e]

We want players tha want in the NFL and want to be trained to be successful there.

If we start getting away from that we will be back to poor old Arkansas.

Fun to speculate though.

[Inhogswetrust]

No, I don't think so.

Despite the spread offenses of today, Sanders' numbers are staggering. He made 300-yard rushing games (four in 1988) almost seem common place, especially when everyone on the defense knew who was carrying the football. In '88 alone, Sanders piled up 2,850 yards rushing and scored an incredible 42 touchdowns—five in a three-quarter Holiday Bowl performance.


http://www.okstate.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/082608aaa.html

He was a beast on the field and I don't ever remember hearing anything bad about him off the field. 

[bphi11ips]

We want players tha want in the NFL and want to be trained to be successful there.

If we start getting away from that we will be back to poor old Arkansas.

Fun to speculate though.

This is the reason few college teams run wishbone-type option oriented offenses.  They still work.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Am I stupid for thinking Enos and CBB. Should throw a little wishbone in the offense this year??
" I run 6 plays..all split vears." Lol

Vears? Is that the same thing as the "veer" (offense) that used to be run back in the day? Just curious and wanted to ensure we're on the same page here.

[Hawgphish]

....and maybe they could wear leather helmets....

[hawginbigd1]

There are some veer plays and principles that can be incorporated into any offense, and a lot do! The veer is the basis for the read option. Many counter plays come from the veer, but there are only a couple teams that can have any success running it as their base and IMO they will never win anything of substance running it. You can incorporate it into a spread or pro to surprise the defense for chunk plays IMO.

One thing the veer can do is help you neutralize a great ILB. If you want to make them easier to block, know where they are going to be. You can use a dive fake so your guard or even tackle know where he will be. Or one of the veers great principles is for the handoff to look like it is going to the a gap, but the play is designed to hit any of the other gaps. It is easier to pick guys off than to straight blow them out of the hole.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

He was a beast on the field and I don't ever remember hearing anything bad about him off the field. 

Very quiet guy who just showed up for work every day and took care of business. The only thing of note about him was when, later in his career, that he requested that he be traded because he wanted to run behind a really good O-Line and have a shot at a Super Bowl.

Detroit, instead of understanding and thanking him for his contributions to the organization and the city of Detroit, said "no". So he chose to not report and essentially retired from football on that day. What a waste. He had more good years left in him and as fans, we were deprived of seeing one of the best RB's of all time finish out his career. I can understand Detroit's stance on it, but he gave them so much for so many years, I just wish they had taken a different approach in resolving the problem.

[Inhogswetrust]

Very quiet guy who just showed up for work every day and took care of business. The only thing of note about him was when, later in his career, that he requested that he be traded because he wanted to run behind a really good O-Line and have a shot at a Super Bowl.

Detroit, instead of understanding and thanking him for his contributions to the organization and the city of Detroit, said "no". So he chose to not report and essentially retired from football on that day. What a waste. He had more good years left in him and as fans, we were deprived of seeing one of the best RB's of all time finish out his career. I can understand Detroit's stance on it, but he gave them so much for so many years, I just wish they had taken a different approach in resolving the problem.

I couldn't agree more. Detroit messed up. They could have gotten a really good top notch deal for him in a trade. But in light of their team at the time I don't blame him for retiring. He could have gotten killed behind that line. It is simply amazing he was able to accomplish what he did with the miniscule help teammates player-wise Detroit provided him over his career.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I couldn't agree more. Detroit messed up.They could have gotten a really good top notch deal for him in a trade. But in light of their team at the time I don't blame him for retiring. He could have gotten killed behind that line. It is simply amazing he was able to accomplish what he did with the miniscule help teammates player-wise Detroit provided him over his career.

Oh yeah. can you imagine? "Hey guys, we are putting Barry Sanders up for trade. What have you got to offer?" That would have been one of those 3 for 1 trades and other NFL teams would have been happy to do it.

The Dallas Cowboys could have used him the next season in 1999 and probably would have done far better than 8-8 with him at RB and this supporting cast.

8 Troy Aikman
22 Emmitt Smith
44 Robert Thomas FB
76 Flozell Adams T
73 Larry Allen G
69 Ben Fricke C
67 Everett McIver G
62 Tom Myslinski T/G
77 Solomon Page G/T
53 Mark Stepnoski C
79 Erik Williams T

Think that O-Line wouldn't have loved blocking for him? AND, it would have taken the pressure off of Emmitt Smith to be the "go to" guy and probably would have given him a better year as well. As an opponent, do you really want to see Smith and Sanders in the same backfield?

[LZH]

Get ready to start laughing......ready, go!

I think it could work very well with the right skill players to truly commit to it.  You've got to have a QB who you aren't afraid to let run and turn the corner with the ball in his hands (providing he can get there); and you have to count on both backs (JW and AC) to be able to block the DE/LB's (as well as read their movements for running safe routes); and have at least two TE's that can block as well or better than they can run/catch.  It's basically an I-formation double/triple option scheme without a 250 pound FB to start things off with.

But other than that....yeah, it could work.

[BPsTheMan]

[Inhogswetrust]

He also liked to "veer" from the rules..............................

[BPsTheMan]

I saw a Mighty Mite high school team win a state championship with it decades ago against a perennial powerhouse - wide outside veer

It was pretty

the "pistol" has veer concepts

[BPsTheMan]

and no, the split back veer would not work now days - probably not even in high school

[whippersnapper]

JT Curtis runs it in Louisiana.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I saw a Mighty Mite high school team win a state championship with it decades ago against a perennial powerhouse - wide outside veer

It was pretty

the "pistol" has veer concepts

With the size, speed and quickness of SEC defensive players these days, if you decide to run any variation of the triple option you better have a very special, tough and resilient QB who doesn't mind taking an undefended hit.

But it does make me wonder, with the way that they tend to over-protect skilled players these days from defenseless hits, if this might not be a good time to resurrect the triple option and take advantage of the enhanced sensitivity to a QB getting nailed?

Better not only be three deep in good, tough QB's, but you better be 5 to 6 deep in very talented and speedy RB's. It is an exciting offense as long as you don't turn the ball over a lot or have to play from behind. But very entertaining.

[Hoggish1]

Am I stupid for thinking Enos and CBB.

Depends on what you were thinking.

[Hawgzinbowlz]

Coach Enos may run a little pistol or zone read although a triple option would be out of character, for both CDE and CBB.
It should be an interesting season, offensively.

http://www.arkansasfight.com/2015/1/29/7880957/arkansas-fight-x-and-o-look-at-new-offensive-coordinator-dan-enos

" WOO PIG "

[Boarcephus]

With the size, speed and quickness of SEC defensive players these days, if you decide to run any variation of the triple option you better have a very special, tough and resilient QB who doesn't mind taking an undefended hit.

But it does make me wonder, with the way that they tend to over-protect skilled players these days from defenseless hits, if this might not be a good time to resurrect the triple option and take advantage of the enhanced sensitivity to a QB getting nailed?

I suspect a option QB is going to be treated the same way running backs are in that they're fair game.  The triple option in it's hay day was a thing of beauty to watch but for all intents and purposes, it died the day Jimmy Johnson's Miami team thumped Barry Switzer's OU team.  No longer were the best athletes just relegated to offenses. 

[BPsTheMan]

JT Curtis runs it in Louisiana.

I stand corrected on high schools still running it then - good info

JT gets better players than his competition however

[SamBuckhart]

I remember Houston running the veer. I also remember Arkansas completely destroying it under Lou Holtz.

[Iwastherein1969]

we ran the veer in the Orange Bowl v the OKIES in '78....Calcagni was a good enough athlete and ball handler to do it...it wasn't the pure veer, but it was Lou's version of it...most of the plays were straight ahead blocking with quick hitting straight ahead hand offs to Roland Sales....god it was a beautiful thing...our O line and D line dominated what was the most talented team, by far, in the country

[Inhogswetrust]

With the size, speed and quickness of SEC defensive players these days, if you decide to run any variation of the triple option you better have a very special, tough and resilient QB who doesn't mind taking an undefended hit.

But it does make me wonder, with the way that they tend to over-protect skilled players these days from defenseless hits, if this might not be a good time to resurrect the triple option and take advantage of the enhanced sensitivity to a QB getting nailed?

Better not only be three deep in good, tough QB's, but you better be 5 to 6 deep in very talented and speedy RB's. It is an exciting offense as long as you don't turn the ball over a lot or have to play from behind. But very entertaining.

Agree that QB's are overprotected by coaches but they are also protected by stricter rules than in the past. The former hitting on all players that used to take place is no longer allowed. QB's are almost to the point that they should be using flag football rules or even the green jerseys like during scrimmages! The spread still incorporates some QB running however it is safer now so I wonder why teams don't use more veer type plays.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Agree that QB's are overprotected by coaches but they are also protected by stricter rules than in the past. The former hitting on all players that used to take place is no longer allowed. QB's are almost to the point that they should be using flag football rules or even the green jerseys like during scrimmages! The spread still incorporates some QB running however it is safer now so I wonder why teams don't use more veer type plays.

I really meant the way that they are protected in games these days.

[Inhogswetrust]

I stand corrected on high schools still running it then - good info

JT gets better players than his competition however

I remember Cabot running the option. Is Mike Malham still the coach? I saw where he is being inducted to the state HOF. Good for him!

[Inhogswetrust]

I really meant the way that they are protected in games these days.

That's why it is also curious why teams don't use MORE option type principles.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

That's why it is also curious why teams don't use MORE option type principles.

Boarcephus had a good point above. It could be that once the QB takes off with the ball he becomes a RB and may not have the same level of official protection that he might have standing upright in the backfield.

[Inhogswetrust]

Boarcephus had a good point above. It could be that once the QB takes off with the ball he becomes a RB and may not have the same level of official protection that he might have standing upright in the backfield.

But that was true before as well and there were a LOT more "pure" running option teams. Now options are being run out of more diversified sets and a lot of coaches incorporate option plays of some type but not basic Triple and Veer types as much.

[rricha]

arkansas under holtz ran the veer back in 79, 81 and some in 82.  u need backs that can block and willing to block for this offense to be effective.  the pro set and the veer looked almost the same.

[lstewart]

I always liked the later 70's version of the "Houston" veer, with two split backs, and two wideouts. Felt like it provided a lot of the benefit of the wishbone, but you could pass out of it easier with more of a pro set. Biggest problem now with that offense would probably be getting your QB killed taking all the hits.

[DeltaBoy]

No, I don't think so.

Despite the spread offenses of today, Sanders' numbers are staggering. He made 300-yard rushing games (four in 1988) almost seem common place, especially when everyone on the defense knew who was carrying the football. In '88 alone, Sanders piled up 2,850 yards rushing and scored an incredible 42 touchdowns—five in a three-quarter Holiday Bowl performance.


http://www.okstate.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/082608aaa.html

If I remember correctly  Barry had a all 5th year Sr O line.

[DeltaBoy]

I remember Cabot running the option. Is Mike Malham still the coach? I saw where he is being inducted to the state HOF. Good for him!

Yes he still there running the Dead T!

[26.2Hog]

JT Curtis runs it in Louisiana.

So does Dell Ashley(Sterlington), Boyd Cole(Riverfield), and Barry Sebren(Franklin Parrish).

The veer is all over South Louisiana. Ted Davidson at Acadiana High has gone 118-31 running the veer with three state championships in his 11 years there.

[DeltaBoy]

As a Coaching Friend said running the Veer is like Novocain.

[HogMantheIntruder]

If I remember correctly  Barry had a all 5th year Sr O line.

Ya, totally overrated

[DeltaBoy]

Yeoman Veer was set up to attack the 5-2 D that was so popular in the early 1960's.  By taking wider line spits it forced the tackles to cover more ground along with the DE.  So they double the NG and the QB read the DT and if he stayed put it was give to the dive back and if he crashed the QB pulled and read the DE to either keep or pitch to the back side HB who has trailing him in a proper pitch arch.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

If I remember correctly  Barry had a all 5th year Sr O line.

I honestly don't remember whether all of his starting O-Line was 5th year seniors or not, but Barry Sanders made a lot of yards just on his ability to make quick cuts and juke someone out of their jock. I'm a strong O-Line advocate and they obviously did a great job for him but the natural talent of Sanders produced a tremendous amount of yards. He is just one of those amazing RB's that doesn't come along very often.

[farmhawg]

Am I stupid for thinking Enos and CBB. Should throw a little wishbone in the offense this year??
" I run 6 plays..all split vears." Lol

possibly.....

[DeltaBoy]

I honestly don't remember whether all of his starting O-Line was 5th year seniors or not, but Barry Sanders made a lot of yards just on his ability to make quick cuts and juke someone out of their jock. I'm a strong O-Line advocate and they obviously did a great job for him but the natural talent of Sanders produced a tremendous amount of yards. He is just one of those amazing RB's that doesn't come along very often.

Barry was a freak of nature at RB!

[bphi11ips]

Option football has been around for a long time.  Broyles ran something called "the belly series" in the early 60's that was built around virtually the same thing now referred to as "the inside zone read".  As with the wishbone, and the Rodriguez/Kelly/Malzahn offenses of modern college football, the option starts with the middle.  Establish the middle and the edges and seams open up.  Shut down the middle, and you shut down the option.  Modern spread formations help create space in the middle.

Here are a couple of good articles on the option and the difficulty in defending it:

http://static.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/davie/1447132.html   

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/291342-paul-johnsons-spread-option-a-beginners-guide

For my taste, nothing is more exciting than watching a great option QB like Jack Mildren or Pat White operate an option offense at full speed.  Google Alabama or Oklahoma games from the 70's if you think option football is boring.

Could Arkansas install an effective option attack with its current personnel? Yes, but we don't have the speed at QB and RB to run it to perfection.  We're built for power and play-action, and that's fun to watch, too.  This won't happen, but if Brandon Allen is injured, the wishbone and its variations is easy to install and would take teams a while to adjust to.  Peavey is probably best suited to run it.  Kody Walker, Jonathan Williams and Alex Collins would be hard to stop behind our huge OL.  When the defense loads 11 in the box, Sprinkle and Henry would get 20 yards behind the defense.  Google Keith Jackson at OU.  Again, it won't happen because that's not what we do, but it would work in a pinch.