Heath bashers either (A) don't understand math or (B) want to prove Nolan right!

[allyoucaneatbuffet]

-- If you don't get excited over reading these, then something is wrong with you.
If you don't get excited over reading these AND you never got angry with houston, then say hello to houston when you see him sunday morning, there would be no other explanation.

****HEATH'S YEARLY IMPROVEMENT****

HEATH'S TOTAL WINS = 9 - 12 - 18 - 22
HEATH'S SEC WINS = 4 - 6 - 10
HEATH'S SEC FINISH = 6th West - 4th West - T2nd West
HEATH'S SECT FINISH = lose thursday game by 35 - lose thursday game by 10 - win first game then lose to champ florida by 3
HEATH'S POSTSEASON FINISH = none - none - NIT eligible - NCAAT first round
HEATH'S BUD WALTON WINS (OUT OF 16) = 8 - 10 - 13 - 15
HEATH'S BUD WALTON SEC WINS (OUT OF 8 ) = 3 - 4 - 5 - 7
HEATH'S OFFENSIVE POINTS PER GAME = 62 - 69 - 72 - 74
HEATH'S LOSSES = blowouts everywhere - blowouts on the road - no sec loss by more than five points
HEATH'S PRE-SEC ACHIEVEMENTS = none - paradise jam - beat kansas & almost uconn in maui
HEATH'S SEC ACHIEVEMENTS = none - none - beat LSU - beat 2 top 10 teams, even on the road
HEATH'S ON-COURT TALENT = nolan's guys - stan's shorties/nolan's - stan's short fowards/bigs - stan's bigs AND guards!
HEATH'S PLAYER RESPECT = nolan's resent him - ron sr's tug of war - modicas mixed with respecters - all stans that respect him
HEATH'S OFF-COURT HELP = hodgepodge - michigan state mafia - byebye ronnie thompson - Hipsher the genius!
HEATH'S SEC COACHING RIVALS = as many wins (22) as bruce pearl, outlasted ole miss coach,
HEATH'S RECRUITING = lamptey can't make grades - al jefferson to nba - beverley and weems come here

Heath is on the RISE... why would we want him gone now that he is rising to the top?  (well coach, we were with you in the bad years, but now that we are back to the NCAAs its time to go -- what???) better a rising improving classy heath than a 'already peaked' train wreck like bob huggins....


Like i say, if you don't get excited over reading these, then surely you were advocating ditching Houston NUtt after 2001, right?....  oh wait, you mean you guys hold the coaches to different standards???   ... you know what that means if true, dont' know... it proves NOLAN WAS RIGHT!!!

Was nolan right after all?

[311Hog]

C.) tired of losing



Actually im ok with his progress as a coach and us as a program considering the depth we sank to after Nolan.  We do have some issues, but as been posted by Stewie the recruiting classes for 08 and beyond look amazing.

[artyhog]

Season has not started.  Give him a chance.  The BB Hogs will win more than last year.

[Hogvious]

Nice post.  I have found the Heath bashing perplexing to say the least.

[dana caldwell]

D) have recognized for quite some time he clearly is over his head.

[SPAL]

wow....i love it. Good job Buffet. I think Stan will prove alot this year..

im not a basketball darksider...im ridin the fence on this one. I was as sick as anyone about Bucknell, but its over and done with and there is no reason why we cant be successful this year and we will be. I have come to the conclusion that there are some on here who really do bash just to bash, football included.

[HogNuttz]

Didn't we beat Kansas and "almost" UCONN in Maui, not Orlando

And I'm pretty sure we lost by more than 5 last year, including said UCONN team.

[allyoucaneatbuffet]

My decision on Heath has nothing to with proving Nolan right nor does it have anything to do with Houston Nutt.  What do the two have to do with each other?  NOTHING.

While you're on the theme of progression, here's some math for you to calculate:

Year 1-0 NCAA Wins
Year 2-0 NCAA Wins
Year 3-0 NCAA Wins
Year 4-0 NCAA Wins
-------------------

Here's some for you to calculate on Nolan's last SIX years:

 Last Year - 0 NCAA Wins
2Last Year - 0 NCAA Wins
3 Last Year - 0 NCAA Wins
4 Last Year - 0 NCAA Wins
5 Last Year - 1 NCAA Wins
6 Last Year - 0 NCAA Wins

WOW!!! NOlan's last 6 sure were bountiful.

Why didn't we fire him after 4 years, yeesh!!

[Conway Cool Daddy]

E) Had tickets to the first round of the NCAA in Dallas



Bucknell?

[razorpimp]

D) have recognized for quite some time he clearly is over his head.

Must be "par for the course" for Arkansas coaches in the two big sports.

[Hogvious]

You mean the Bucknell team that beat Kansas the year before?

[sooie dog]

My decision on Heath has nothing to with proving Nolan right nor does it have anything to do with Houston Nutt.  What do the two have to do with each other?  NOTHING.

While you're on the theme of progression, here's some math for you to calculate:

Year 1-0 NCAA Wins
Year 2-0 NCAA Wins
Year 3-0 NCAA Wins
Year 4-0 NCAA Wins
-------------------

Here's some for you to calculate on Nolan's last SIX years:

 Last Year - 0 NCAA Wins
2Last Year - 0 NCAA Wins
3 Last Year - 0 NCAA Wins
4 Last Year - 0 NCAA Wins
5 Last Year - 1 NCAA Wins
6 Last Year - 0 NCAA Wins

WOW!!! NOlan's last 6 sure were bountiful.

Why didn't we fire him after 4 years, yeesh!!

I don't want Nolan back but 1 win is more than Heath can say.  I can't wait until Nolan is paid off so we can hire a real coach.

[allyoucaneatbuffet]

E) Had tickets to the first round of the NCAA in Dallas



Bucknell?

What about nothing? (02)
What about the NIT? (97)
What about Georgetown? (01)
What about Miami? (00 - would have been nothing if not for brandon dean 4 in 4 days)
What about Utah? Iowa?  

cmon, nolan was a BUST after 96----  so he gets a pass but stan is crucified bc of BUCKNELL?  they beat kansas at least.  who has MIAMI ever beat?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?
What about Utah

[Hank351]

Alright how bout this.  I think he is incompetent.  I'm friends with guys on the teams of past and present.  And anytime the coach asks the star not to shoot to make someone else FEEL BETTER.  The guy is an idiot and doesn't need to be in a coach's role.  I've been privileged to get some behind the scene commentary about coach Heath and the guy is just not a leader.  Oh and someone who makes a comment about FRESH LEGS...The last few games of the season is a MORON.

[3kgthog]

At least Nolan had an NCAA tourney win in those last six years. What does Stan have?

Ok basketball gurus, please explain how this year's team is going to win more games than they did last season. So far no one can shoot from the 3-pt or FT lines. How does that translate into victories? Discuss.

[SPAL]

whats funny about this is, the same darksiders that are posting in this thread and  that post fact after fact and dare huggers to say anything about houston nutt, have no facts to back up their claim on stah heath, and stare buffets facts right in the eyes, yet continue to run their traps....irony at its best

[allyoucaneatbuffet]

At least Nolan had an NCAA tourney win in those last six years. What does Stan have?

Ok basketball gurus, please explain how this year's team is going to win more games than they did last season. So far no one can shoot from the 3-pt or FT lines. How does that translate into victories? Discuss.

1- the loss of jonathon modica
2- the loss of eric ferguson

that right there should give us 6 more points a game from missed free throws at least

plus, we won't have to squander any more 'end of half' opportunities where ferg drives down and bricks another layup....

[Conway Cool Daddy]

You mean the Bucknell team that beat Kansas the year before?

I mean the Bucknell that had 5 players, the Bucknell that we allowed to walk the ball up the court and run their
half court offense. The same Bucknell who started crumbling once we finally started pressuring
with 5 minutes left in the game.

I'm not bitter or anything.
(Yes, I am.)

Didn't much care for Nolan either, in case you wanted to know.

[Winner]

I'm giving Heath the benefit of the doubt here.  The fact is, his teams have gotten better.  I don't look at him as a great coach right now, or even a good one, but I'm not ready to say that he can't be a good one and a winner.  Those first two years were terrible but you can throw them out.  Last years' team did about as good as I expected.  The year before last is the most troubling one for me.  But this year will tell the tale.  If we don't make the NCAA this year, then I think the Heath doubters are probably right.  But if we do, I think we're setting ourselves for a big year next year.    

[Hogvious]

Nolan got fired.  What kind of pass are you talking about?  Saying that Nolan stayed around too long doesn't help your argument for Stan doing nothing in four years.

Stan has done nothing but improve every year since he got here.  I have to have more than "he lost his first game in the NCAA tournament" to believe he is not worthy to coach this basketball team.  Especially considering he was forced into not getting some post-season experience for his players the year before.

[dana caldwell]

E) Had tickets to the first round of the NCAA in Dallas



Bucknell?

What about nothing? (02)
What about the NIT? (97)
What about Georgetown? (01)
What about Miami? (00 - would have been nothing if not for brandon dean 4 in 4 days)
What about Utah? Iowa?  

cmon, nolan was a BUST after 96----  so he gets a pass but stan is crucified bc of BUCKNELL?  they beat kansas at least.  who has MIAMI ever beat?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?
What about Utah

that miami team had two kick-ass defensive guards and the hurricanes were favored.

utah had owens at the point and also was favored.

bucknell had slow-footed dufuses, four of which, i believe were on scholarship. arkansas was favored.

but Quicktrigger (love the new moniker, fresh) is right. it's not about nolan vs. heath.

it's about seeing real progress in player development, scoring PGs and shooters, some semblance of a style of any sort, game management, not wasting schollies (hargrow, lamptey, big al), game-planning for opponents, being a tough guy players look up to, not playing favorites, sensible starters and substitutions, HALFTIME adjustments, doling out equal punishments for equal infractions (townes vs. sullivan), etc.

don't like what i've seen for four seasons in any of these areas.

[sooie dog]

whats funny about this is, the same darksiders that are posting in this thread and  that post fact after fact and dare huggers to say anything about houston nutt, have no facts to back up their claim on stah heath, and stare buffets facts right in the eyes, yet continue to run their traps....irony at its best

Why do people not have the sense to know you can't compare football to basketball?

[allyoucaneatbuffet]

You mean the Bucknell team that beat Kansas the year before?

I mean the Bucknell that had 5 players, the Bucknell that we allowed to walk the ball up the court and run their
half court offense. The same Bucknell who started crumbling once we finally started pressuring
with 5 minutes left in the game.

I'm not bitter or anything.
(Yes, I am.)

Didn't much care for Nolan either, in case you wanted to know.

we all hate the buckenll loss.

remember, they made about 3 3's from 25 feet away as the shot clock was expiring.  running or not, can't stop that.

AND we missed 7 (seven!) fts in the second half, plus TWO front ends of one and ones... and still had a chance to tie with 20 seconds left.  bucknell sucked, but it was deserved.

[allyoucaneatbuffet]

Fact-0 tournament wins in 4 years.

Just like Nolan!!

Last 4 years - 0 tourney wins!

[allyoucaneatbuffet]

Nolan got fired.  What kind of pass are you talking about?  Saying that Nolan stayed around too long doesn't help your argument for Stan doing nothing in four years.

Stan has done nothing but improve every year since he got here.  I have to have more than "he lost his first game in the NCAA tournament" to believe he is not worthy to coach this basketball team.  Especially considering he was forced into not getting some post-season experience for his players the year before.

The NIT would have been useless.  Why does improvement actually mean something to you?  He won 9 STINKING GAMES HIS FIRST YEAR.  Count 'em-nine.  Did you think he wouldn't improve off of that performance?

I waiting on the argument for him when he doesn't improve on that 22.  I haven't a good one besides that and it is flawed to say the least.

When Teddy Gipson is your star, yes, 9 games is expected.  Oh, wait, i forgot Kendrick Davis.  Wow, we were LOADED.

And Gomez?  And "baby shaq"! 

WE should have DOMINATED!!!!!!!!

[Conway Cool Daddy]

Fact-0 tournament wins in 4 years.

Just like Nolan!!

Last 4 years - 0 tourney wins!

Maybe they should have fired him?
Oh wait, they did.

[razorpimp]

Good teams lose to "bad" teams in the NCAA tourney all the time.  That is not a barometer for what he accomplished last year.  I say he deserves another year and he is improving.

The only thing that concerns me about him, was when he was at Kent State.  The players basically performed mutiny and took over the team, then they won all of those games.  

[PigManLives]

If you cant see that Heath has done a good job of re-building the program that nowin left in shambles, than you are simply stupid.

The origional poster is right.  Heath is on the way up and will be here for quite some time.

[Buff]

Fact-0 tournament wins in 4 years.

Just like Nolan!!

Last 4 years - 0 tourney wins!

and what did it get Nolan?



FIRED! understand?

[Hogvious]

Nolan got fired.  What kind of pass are you talking about?  Saying that Nolan stayed around too long doesn't help your argument for Stan doing nothing in four years.

Stan has done nothing but improve every year since he got here.  I have to have more than "he lost his first game in the NCAA tournament" to believe he is not worthy to coach this basketball team.  Especially considering he was forced into not getting some post-season experience for his players the year before.

The NIT would have been useless.  Why does improvement actually mean something to you?  He won 9 STINKING GAMES HIS FIRST YEAR.  Count 'em-nine.  Did you think he wouldn't improve off of that performance?

I waiting on the argument for him when he doesn't improve on that 22.  I haven't a good one besides that and it is flawed to say the least.

Tell me how many wins we're going to have this year, then.  I'm going to at least let this season play out before I put him in the s***can.  Please tell me that if you are going to bash Heath that you also want HDN gone.

[allyoucaneatbuffet]

Good teams lose to "bad" teams in the NCAA tourney all the time.  That is not a barometer for what he accomplished last year.  I say he deserves another year and he is improving.

The only thing that concerns me about him, was when he was at Kent State.  The players basically performed mutiny and took over the team, then they won all of those games.  

i mean this not as a 'heath hugger', but seriously.  i have heard that too... but is taht really true?  how do we know that?  is that just hearsay?  if these kent state 5 were able to be player/coaches and go to the final 8, where are they now?  not lighting up the nba that's for sure.  one of them played for the s.d. chargers in the nfl, but really, is this "mutiny" true, or more a "coach we are better playing another style" in a team meeting?   i mean, would the hc, ALL the assitants, the AD, just say "ok, ok, 18 year olds dictating a program - good news"!  just doesnt make sense to me thats all......   is it true?

[SPAL]

whats funny about this is, the same darksiders that are posting in this thread and  that post fact after fact and dare huggers to say anything about houston nutt, have no facts to back up their claim on stah heath, and stare buffets facts right in the eyes, yet continue to run their traps....irony at its best

Fact-0 tournament wins in 4 years.

Stan gets at least 2 years, maybe even 3 before you can even start talkin about NCAA tourney wins...it is ignorant to use NCAA tourney wins as an argument....he started with nothing...PERIOD.

There were people in this thread that were in an uproar over people who used the Auburn win in football as an argument on why Nutt shoudl stay, yet these same clowns are using one loss, bucknell, as an argument to why Stan should be fired....more irony.

[allyoucaneatbuffet]

whats funny about this is, the same darksiders that are posting in this thread and  that post fact after fact and dare huggers to say anything about houston nutt, have no facts to back up their claim on stah heath, and stare buffets facts right in the eyes, yet continue to run their traps....irony at its best

Fact-0 tournament wins in 4 years.

Stan gets at least 2 years, maybe even 3 before you can even start talkin about NCAA tourney wins...it is ignorant to use NCAA tourney wins as an argument....he started with nothing...PERIOD.

There were people in this thread that were in an uproar over people who used the Auburn win in football as an argument on why Nutt shoudl stay, yet these same clowns are using one loss, bucknell, as an argument to why Stan should be fired....more irony.

By their logic, beating FLORIDA should buy stan 2 more years.

Or by beating florida AND Tennessee should buy stan 3 more years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[razorpimp]

You mean the Bucknell team that beat Kansas the year before?

I mean the Bucknell that had 5 players, the Bucknell that we allowed to walk the ball up the court and run their
half court offense. The same Bucknell who started crumbling once we finally started pressuring
with 5 minutes left in the game.

I'm not bitter or anything.
(Yes, I am.)

Didn't much care for Nolan either, in case you wanted to know.

we all hate the buckenll loss.

remember, they made about 3 3's from 25 feet away as the shot clock was expiring.  running or not, can't stop that.

AND we missed 7 (seven!) fts in the second half, plus TWO front ends of one and ones... and still had a chance to tie with 20 seconds left.  bucknell sucked, but it was deserved.

Does the coach not take any responsibility for his players being behind?  Missing free throws?  Those guys were so tight in that game.  Vincent Hunter would be bouncing up and down trying to guide the ball in (sure sign of nervousness).

If we would have pressed and dumped the FRESH LEGS STRATEGY, those bombs you referenced wouldn't mattered. 

They had a whopping THREE scholarships!

You can't say we lost because they got lucky on a couple of shots.  The game is 40 minutes long. 

That is not good reasoning....

1999 - Weber State defeats UNC 76-74
1993 - Santa Clara defeats Arizona 64-61
1991 - Richmond defeats Syracuse 73-69
1996 - Princeton defeats UCLA 43-41

[Buff]

Heath is on the RISE... why would we want him gone now that he is rising to the top?  (well coach, we were with you in the bad years, but now that we are back to the NCAAs its time to go -- what???) better a rising improving classy heath than a 'already peaked' train wreck like bob huggins....


Like i say, if you don't get excited over reading these, then surely you were advocating ditching Houston NUtt after 2001, right?....  oh wait, you mean you guys hold the coaches to different standards???   ... you know what that means if true, dont' know... it proves NOLAN WAS RIGHT!!!

Was nolan right after all?

Nolan >> Heath

Nolan just sat on his arse and stopped working.  That's what got him fired IMO.  He wasnt right about anything.  White-Haired Devils.  I laughed when I heard that.  Did any other black coaches say the same thing?

[allyoucaneatbuffet]

You mean the Bucknell team that beat Kansas the year before?

I mean the Bucknell that had 5 players, the Bucknell that we allowed to walk the ball up the court and run their
half court offense. The same Bucknell who started crumbling once we finally started pressuring
with 5 minutes left in the game.

I'm not bitter or anything.
(Yes, I am.)

Didn't much care for Nolan either, in case you wanted to know.

we all hate the buckenll loss.

remember, they made about 3 3's from 25 feet away as the shot clock was expiring.  running or not, can't stop that.

AND we missed 7 (seven!) fts in the second half, plus TWO front ends of one and ones... and still had a chance to tie with 20 seconds left.  bucknell sucked, but it was deserved.

Does the coach not take any responsibility for his players being behind?  Missing free throws?  Those guys were so tight in that game.  Vincent Hunter would be bouncing up and down trying to guide the ball in (sure sign of nervousness).

If we would have pressed and dumped the FRESH LEGS STRATEGY, those bombs you referenced wouldn't mattered. 

They had a whopping THREE scholarships!

You can't say we lost because they got lucky on a couple of shots.  The game is 40 minutes long. 

That is not good reasoning....

1999 - Weber State defeats UNC 76-74
1993 - Santa Clara defeats Arizona 64-61
1991 - Richmond defeats Syracuse 73-69
1996 - Princeton defeats UCLA 43-41

Hampton 2001, Coppin State 1997, N'Western State 2006, George Mason 2006, Manhattan 2004

[razorpimp]

You mean the Bucknell team that beat Kansas the year before?

I mean the Bucknell that had 5 players, the Bucknell that we allowed to walk the ball up the court and run their
half court offense. The same Bucknell who started crumbling once we finally started pressuring
with 5 minutes left in the game.

I'm not bitter or anything.
(Yes, I am.)

Didn't much care for Nolan either, in case you wanted to know.

we all hate the buckenll loss.

remember, they made about 3 3's from 25 feet away as the shot clock was expiring.  running or not, can't stop that.

AND we missed 7 (seven!) fts in the second half, plus TWO front ends of one and ones... and still had a chance to tie with 20 seconds left.  bucknell sucked, but it was deserved.

Does the coach not take any responsibility for his players being behind?  Missing free throws?  Those guys were so tight in that game.  Vincent Hunter would be bouncing up and down trying to guide the ball in (sure sign of nervousness).

If we would have pressed and dumped the FRESH LEGS STRATEGY, those bombs you referenced wouldn't mattered. 

They had a whopping THREE scholarships!

You can't say we lost because they got lucky on a couple of shots.  The game is 40 minutes long. 

That is not good reasoning....

1999 - Weber State defeats UNC 76-74
1993 - Santa Clara defeats Arizona 64-61
1991 - Richmond defeats Syracuse 73-69
1996 - Princeton defeats UCLA 43-41

Those games were all 40 minutes long the last time I checked.

Yes they were and each of those higher ranked teams lost to nobodys during that 40 minutes.  I guess UCLA was just saving their legs when they only scored 41 points.

[hogtheball]

HEATH'S SEC WINS = 4 - 6 - 10
HEATH'S SEC FINISH = 6th West - 4th West - T2nd West
HEATH'S BUD WALTON SEC WINS (OUT OF 8 ) = 3 - 4 - 5 - 7
HEATH'S OFFENSIVE POINTS PER GAME = 62 - 69 - 72 - 74
HEATH'S SEC ACHIEVEMENTS = none - none - beat LSU - beat 2 top 10 teams, even on the road

Nice work, all-you-can-eat.  Those SEC numbers surprised me in a good way.  I'd rather judge Stan on Stan's numbers than bring Nolan into the whole thing, however.  I'm still not sure if he's going to be a great coach, but he's a year or two from a good coach - and that might mean another year or two to greatness.  I go up and down with this guy, but I won't argue that he hasn't gotten better.  I just hope he can speed up the progress a little this year.

His motion offense was one weird bastardization of his protige's for the first two years, and I still think it lacks a lot of chemistry (I'm willing to write half of that off to the odd mix of personnel he started with).  The defense seems like a good scheme most of the time, but has had a serious lack of intensity for seemingly endless stretches of play.  I'm with him this season (call me a skeptical b-ball hugger with a propensity towards the dark), but he needs to show some improvement. 

The thing that drives me nuts during b-ball season is our fans' insistence that Heath run some kind of "Nolan-like" full-court press.  IT'S OVER!!!  40 minutes of hell was over in 96 or 97.  After that, it became 20 minutes of hell and 20 minutes of pergatory.  After that, every team in the SEC was able to adjust to it.  We didn't bring Heath in here to emulate Nolan, just to win.  If he can do that with his schemes and his personnel - I'll be his biggest fan.  If he can win the west with the crew he has now,  that will be a good season. 

[dana caldwell]

If you cant see that Heath has done a good job of re-building the program that nowin left in shambles, than you are simply stupid.

The origional poster is right.  Heath is on the way up and will be here for quite some time.

brilliant!

[Winner]

Fact-0 tournament wins in 4 years.

Just like Nolan!!

Last 4 years - 0 tourney wins!

The more important statistic is that Nolan had only one tournament win in his FIRST four years.  Over Loyola.  And then lost to Louisville in the second round in a game that Louisville controlled.  Heath is only one NCAA  tournament win away from where Nolan was in his first four years.  Nolan is a hall of fame caliber coach.  Let's see Heath coach a team to a worse finish than the previous years' team before we toss him out.    

[Hogvious]

Nolan got fired.  What kind of pass are you talking about?  Saying that Nolan stayed around too long doesn't help your argument for Stan doing nothing in four years.

Stan has done nothing but improve every year since he got here.  I have to have more than "he lost his first game in the NCAA tournament" to believe he is not worthy to coach this basketball team.  Especially considering he was forced into not getting some post-season experience for his players the year before.

The NIT would have been useless.  Why does improvement actually mean something to you?  He won 9 STINKING GAMES HIS FIRST YEAR.  Count 'em-nine.  Did you think he wouldn't improve off of that performance?

I waiting on the argument for him when he doesn't improve on that 22.  I haven't a good one besides that and it is flawed to say the least.

Tell me how many wins we're going to have this year, then.  I'm going to at least let this season play out before I put him in the s***can.  Please tell me that if you are going to bash Heath that you also want HDN gone.

What does wanting Heath gone have to do with getting rid of Nutt?  Last time I checked one coached football and the other coached basketball.  If you can't figure out my stance on Dale by looking around my avatar, the caption below it, etc then you shouldn't get out of bed because the world is in danger.

Thanks.  Did not give your avatar a serious glance, but OK.  I disagree about one being basketball and the other football.  To me it it is the direction of the program, regardless of sport, hence the analogy.  I see basketball moving up since Stan was hired and football down since Nutt was hired.

[SPAL]

whats funny about this is, the same darksiders that are posting in this thread and  that post fact after fact and dare huggers to say anything about houston nutt, have no facts to back up their claim on stah heath, and stare buffets facts right in the eyes, yet continue to run their traps....irony at its best

Fact-0 tournament wins in 4 years.

Stan gets at least 2 years, maybe even 3 before you can even start talkin about NCAA tourney wins...it is ignorant to use NCAA tourney wins as an argument....he started with nothing...PERIOD.

There were people in this thread that were in an uproar over people who used the Auburn win in football as an argument on why Nutt shoudl stay, yet these same clowns are using one loss, bucknell, as an argument to why Stan should be fired....more irony.

I giving your two years of underachievement bud. 

lol, u r just too comical...u make no sense, u use no logic, you have no facts other than your tourney wins, you are too blind to see that stan has taken a program full of gulf south players at best and improved the talent level and improved the record each year...that sir is a fact that not even you can argue with.

[razorpimp]

You mean the Bucknell team that beat Kansas the year before?

I mean the Bucknell that had 5 players, the Bucknell that we allowed to walk the ball up the court and run their
half court offense. The same Bucknell who started crumbling once we finally started pressuring
with 5 minutes left in the game.

I'm not bitter or anything.
(Yes, I am.)

Didn't much care for Nolan either, in case you wanted to know.

we all hate the buckenll loss.

remember, they made about 3 3's from 25 feet away as the shot clock was expiring.  running or not, can't stop that.

AND we missed 7 (seven!) fts in the second half, plus TWO front ends of one and ones... and still had a chance to tie with 20 seconds left.  bucknell sucked, but it was deserved.

Does the coach not take any responsibility for his players being behind?  Missing free throws?  Those guys were so tight in that game.  Vincent Hunter would be bouncing up and down trying to guide the ball in (sure sign of nervousness).

If we would have pressed and dumped the FRESH LEGS STRATEGY, those bombs you referenced wouldn't mattered. 

They had a whopping THREE scholarships!

You can't say we lost because they got lucky on a couple of shots.  The game is 40 minutes long. 

That is not good reasoning....

1999 - Weber State defeats UNC 76-74
1993 - Santa Clara defeats Arizona 64-61
1991 - Richmond defeats Syracuse 73-69
1996 - Princeton defeats UCLA 43-41

Those games were all 40 minutes long the last time I checked.

Yes they were and each of those higher ranked teams lost to nobodys during that 40 minutes.  I guess UCLA was just saving their legs when they only scored 41 points.

UCLA didn't force the tempo.  You allow lesser athletes like a Princeton to play their game and you lose.  I'm not sure what you're arguing with me about to be honest.  Princeton didn't get lucky that's for sure.

Just stating that lesser teams win in the NCAA tourney all the time...Arizona lost is Lute Olsen a moron? 

[Hogvious]

Heath is on the RISE... why would we want him gone now that he is rising to the top?  (well coach, we were with you in the bad years, but now that we are back to the NCAAs its time to go -- what???) better a rising improving classy heath than a 'already peaked' train wreck like bob huggins....


Like i say, if you don't get excited over reading these, then surely you were advocating ditching Houston NUtt after 2001, right?....  oh wait, you mean you guys hold the coaches to different standards???   ... you know what that means if true, dont' know... it proves NOLAN WAS RIGHT!!!

Was nolan right after all?

Nolan >> Heath

Nolan just sat on his arse and stopped working.  That's what got him fired IMO.  He wasnt right about anything.  White-Haired Devils.  I laughed when I heard that.  Did any other black coaches say the same thing?

This I cannot argue with.  I will further state that Heath coaches a style of basketball that is just not as fun to watch as Nolan's.  Even against cupcakes, people were excited with Nolan's teams until he got lazy.  I think that plays a big part in the backlash.  People want that excitement back, and you just won't get it with Stan.

[Hogvious]

Nolan got fired.  What kind of pass are you talking about?  Saying that Nolan stayed around too long doesn't help your argument for Stan doing nothing in four years.

Stan has done nothing but improve every year since he got here.  I have to have more than "he lost his first game in the NCAA tournament" to believe he is not worthy to coach this basketball team.  Especially considering he was forced into not getting some post-season experience for his players the year before.

The NIT would have been useless.  Why does improvement actually mean something to you?  He won 9 STINKING GAMES HIS FIRST YEAR.  Count 'em-nine.  Did you think he wouldn't improve off of that performance?

I waiting on the argument for him when he doesn't improve on that 22.  I haven't a good one besides that and it is flawed to say the least.

Tell me how many wins we're going to have this year, then.  I'm going to at least let this season play out before I put him in the s***can.  Please tell me that if you are going to bash Heath that you also want HDN gone.

What does wanting Heath gone have to do with getting rid of Nutt?  Last time I checked one coached football and the other coached basketball.  If you can't figure out my stance on Dale by looking around my avatar, the caption below it, etc then you shouldn't get out of bed because the world is in danger.

Thanks.  Did not give your avatar a serious glance, but OK.  I disagree about one being basketball and the other football.  To me it it is the direction of the program, regardless of sport, hence the analogy.  I see basketball moving up since Stan was hired and football down since Nutt was hired.

I understand where you're going with it but you don't compare one to the other as a way of justifying the hiring or firing in my mind.  Maybe you need to fire both of them or maybe you need to keep both. 

My point is what is the argument to keep Heath when he stops improving?  I've yet to see one.  It's an argument that is skewed because of what he was left.  You could go from 9 to 10 to 11 to 12 and "improve" year to year to year.

The original poster also conveniently left out some stats for Heath as well.   

The thing for me is so far he hasn't stopped improving.  This season will tell the tale.  So I'm not writing him off just yet.

[allyoucaneatbuffet]

from 9 to 22  and from 11th in sec to 3rd in sec is no small feat.....

that's progress.  3rd in the LEAGUE in a league with 5 20 win teams,  2 final four teams, oh, and the nat'l champion (who we beat on a basically neutral floor due to the snow!)

he IS getting better, and it upsets you.

[Hank351]

No, its the actual truth.  Heath has talked about it.  ESPN wrote an article about it.  Heath said that was when he turne d the conrner and learned a lot about himself as a coach and a person.  THE GUY IS A MORON.  A bunch of college kids took over his team and went that far and he got the pay day for it.  Trust me and this is straight from some players mouths.  The guy has no leadership skills, and no control of this team.  This is Charles Thomas and Gary Ervin's team and they'll do what those guys tell them before they listen to COACH FRESH LEGS.

[jbr01]

D) have recognized for quite some time he clearly is over his head.

How's that?

I seem to remember beating the national champions last year.

I seem to remember beating this board's boy toy (Bruce Pearl) at his place when he had a top 10 team.

I seem to remember beating a "proven coach" in Bill Self 6000 miles away.

I seem to remember 19 additional victories, some good some bad.

Either way, anybody that can beat Bill Self, Billy Donovan, Mike Gottfried, and Bruce Pearl is clearly capable of not only competing, but competing well.

Now, I'm looking forward to your response of how we lost to Ole Miss and Miss. St., and we blew it against LSU twice. And I don't care what you or anybody else here says, Bucknell is a good basketball team.  I was there, I watched, and I was disappointed.

Heath is not "clearly in over his head".  If anything, I'd say that he is among the upper echelon coaches in the SEC, seeing as how he's beaten all of them, with the exception of Tubby Smith.

Opaquely, you're right.  

[fourthcrusade]

No, its the actual truth.  Heath has talked about it.  ESPN wrote an article about it.  Heath said that was when he turne d the conrner and learned a lot about himself as a coach and a person.  THE GUY IS A MORON.  A bunch of college kids took over his team and went that far and he got the pay day for it.  Trust me and this is straight from some players mouths.  The guy has no leadership skills, and no control of this team.  This is Charles Thomas and Gary Ervin's team and they'll do what those guys tell them before they listen to COACH FRESH LEGS.

I don't really believe the whole "kent state revolt" thing either.

You mean to tell me that an A.D. of a Division I program was ok with this?  NONE of the Assistant coaches spoke up?

I can see "coach, I am better at this speed or this position" in a meeting, but the whole "PLAYERS REBELLED AND WOULDN'T PLAY" doesn't jive. 

Did they sit out a game?  Did they 'demand' and heath 'gave in'??  That sounds more like a request, not a rebellion.

Get your facts straight, and go root on the Hogs vs SEMO tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Michael Porkleone]

Nice post.  I have found the Heath bashing perplexing to say the least.

something to gripe about when football season is over.