I wish Stan Heath would read this board (instead of his flunkies, who do)

[Brett Hitman Hog]

The "I'm right because the rest of you don't know anything" argument is a weak one.

I wish it wasn't the case, but we're a Division 1 basketball team that has no idea how to break the dreaded 2-3 zone.

If any of you have ever played basketball, on even the ELEMENTARY SCHOOL level, you'll remember that the 2-3 zone is the first defense that is EVER taught to you, thus the 2-3 zone is the first defense you ever play against.



I would understand if we were facing a match-up zone from game to game (which can be BRUTAL if run effectively), but when the opposing team simply slaps on a rudimentary 2-3 zone to stop you, then you know you're in trouble.

And I'm sorry, simply adding a 3 point shooter does NOT remedy the situation. 

It's all about ball movement, spacing, and penetration.  Simply throwing in a 3 point shooter under the current system wouldn't mean a damn thing, as he's worthless if he's always covered.

That's where the spacing, ball movement, etc comes into play.  A good coach can exploit a zone defense no matter who his personnel is, as the zone basically invites you to create mismatches.

I will not read all the dumb@ss response, but I'll reply to you.. I've even played this defense in charity games.. You are correct, sir.

[ksrazorback]

After reading all this silver tongue stuff...

I'm not one too whine, and I certainly do not think this forum is indicative to what the Razorback Fans are thinking, NOT IN ANY WAY!! But then again most on this forum are Razorback Fans, just not the majority.

Having said that, from this fans perspective, I thought of SH in the very beginning as not a very strong coach and thought FB went too quick when he choose SH. Not saying I have premonitions, but so for has turned out to be true.
My thoughts are as I have stated before, SH needs to be like a man and step down as FB will not fire him this year or the next and may not the next. SH has shown some improvements through his tenure, but those improvements are not to the standards put forth by other new coaches at Division 1 Universities, especially not the state of Arkansas, of which I am proud to call my home state.

Now, that the Razorbacks fans have the details of how the season played out and now have been mulled over, many if not most Hog fans, have a hard time swallowing the details, of what it could have been. We fans expected more from this Razorback team, which finished the season respectfully 22-10 and 10-6 in SEC play, but not respected as they should have.

Much of the hard to swallow has to do with whom the Razorbacks lost and how they lost. Despite the fact that Bucknell performed better and played more consistently than the Razorbacks had all season. So I for one wanted to see this program advancing in Dallas. I thought this Razorback team would have a shot at Memphis, but again thought of how many points would they loose by. Just not having a good feeling on the strength of the coach but pretty sure the players were there to do it.
That is kind of how a fan like myself may rationalize, but in the end look for the coach to do the right thing, especially when even a fan like me can see SH is well over his head at this Major University. With a fan base that is equal to none and clear as can be, it is not a player fault but set directly on the coach. My expectations were very high with this team, but the details or outcome very hard to swallow.

So as a fan looking the coach right in the eye, after this many years SH, this many chances to succeed SH, this many great players to help you succeed SH. Now looking back into my eyes and the rest of the Razorback fans, just do the right thing Stan Heath, for the Razorback players coming up, resign like a man.

This Razorback Team would and should have beat Bucknell... the straw breaker.

"Love-um-Hawgs" :razorback: :razorback: :razorback:

[Biggus Piggus]

I still can't believe how many people are posting that they believe Heath should quit or be fired for losing to Bucknell.  No stinkin' way!  After three years of grudging progress, the team made a leap.  Sure it was led by seniors and a junior who's also likely to depart.  Sure they lost some games that were winnable.  But it was a hockey stick breakout compared with what we did for three seasons against decreasingly competitive competition.  And the skill mix of the roster will get better next season.  I am convinced Heath will become a better coach simply due to having more true guards and more players he wanted.  He might have to be on the job for 10 years before he really looks like a genius, but success feeds success, and Heath will have more success next season.

As for why the rebounding was so bad this season, it's because of the player mix.  Heath did not sign rebounders, other than McGowan, who was so unpolished he couldn't stay on the court.  McGowan has loads of potential, and if he improves from year 1-2 as much as Charles Thomas did, we're in good shape.

Does Heath need another strong assistant, maybe.  Would a big man specialist help, only if he's a really brilliant one.  Those are hard to get.  What's more necessary is continuity in system and teaching method.  The players need to be pointed in one direction for a sustained period, rather than experiencing this slapdash weekly process of addressing the latest emergency at the expense of continual work on the key fundamentals of whatever we're supposed to be putting together.

I think it starts to happen next season, but I've been known to be overly optimistic before.

Giggle.

[Biggus Piggus]

One more thing.

I think some of you confuse

an attempt at critique

with

one more Hogville fire-the-coach broadside.

Which ain't the case.  Please try to read without reading something into it that ain't there.

[GWINGATE]

IF ARKANSAS HAD JUST PICKED THIER MAN AT HALF COURT LIKE MEMPHIS AMND NOT LET THEM DRIBBLE AND PASS AT WILL THE OUTCOME WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERANT

[ksrazorback]

Loads of silver tongue stuff on this board...

The following is just a bit of facts and another reason why I base my judgement that,
SH should do the right thing, and step a-side ~

He just is not a very strong coach, the following is a good example of coaches we know and where they coached. Yes SH has had respectible progress but at a Div 1 School, take a look at his winning percentage.

Statistical comparison of former Hogs that were head coaches in College Basketball, including
their yearly and career stats. **Active in 2005-06 season.

Coach                  Wins Losses Percentage Tenure  Years
Eddie Sutton**       881  329    .728           1966-P   39
Gene Keady            737  337    .686           1966-05  35
Nolan Richardson     609  220    .735            -2002    25
Stan Heath**           91   63    .591            2001-P    5
http://www.geocities.com/dpdale/mcbcs1.html
Named Head Coach at Arkansas: March 28, 2002 / Years of Collegiate Coaching Experience: 17

"Lov-um-Hawgs"  :razorback: :razorback: :razorback:

[mword]

Great job BP

[riccoar]

This morning on 103.7 FM Wally commented about Stan being in Montana to watch the Wings play.  He asked a question as to why a coach would be watching a player he already has inked.  In retort, Tommy Smith had the quote of the season, "Maybe he was there to talk to the head coach of Montana, they actually won a game in the NCAA tournament this year!"

CLASSIC!

[wrightobe]

After reading all this silver tongue stuff...

I'm not one too whine, and I certainly do not think this forum is indicative to what the Razorback Fans are thinking, NOT IN ANY WAY!! But then again most on this forum are Razorback Fans, just not the majority.

Having said that, from this fans perspective, I thought of SH in the very beginning as not a very strong coach and thought FB went too quick when he choose SH. Not saying I have premonitions, but so for has turned out to be true.
My thoughts are as I have stated before, SH needs to be like a man and step down as FB will not fire him this year or the next and may not the next. SH has shown some improvements through his tenure, but those improvements are not to the standards put forth by other new coaches at Division 1 Universities, especially not the state of Arkansas, of which I am proud to call my home state.

Now, that the Razorbacks fans have the details of how the season played out and now have been mulled over, many if not most Hog fans, have a hard time swallowing the details, of what it could have been. We fans expected more from this Razorback team, which finished the season respectfully 22-10 and 10-6 in SEC play, but not respected as they should have.

Much of the hard to swallow has to do with whom the Razorbacks lost and how they lost. Despite the fact that Bucknell performed better and played more consistently than the Razorbacks had all season. So I for one wanted to see this program advancing in Dallas. I thought this Razorback team would have a shot at Memphis, but again thought of how many points would they loose by. Just not having a good feeling on the strength of the coach but pretty sure the players were there to do it.
That is kind of how a fan like myself may rationalize, but in the end look for the coach to do the right thing, especially when even a fan like me can see SH is well over his head at this Major University. With a fan base that is equal to none and clear as can be, it is not a player fault but set directly on the coach. My expectations were very high with this team, but the details or outcome very hard to swallow.

So as a fan looking the coach right in the eye, after this many years SH, this many chances to succeed SH, this many great players to help you succeed SH. Now looking back into my eyes and the rest of the Razorback fans, just do the right thing Stan Heath, for the Razorback players coming up, resign like a man.

This Razorback Team would and should have beat Bucknell... the straw breaker.

"Love-um-Hawgs" :razorback: :razorback: :razorback:

It was not Frank Broyles that hired Stan Heath, but the selection committee, chaired by Tommy Boyer with the likes of Lee Mayberry and J. J. Sullinger on the committee, although Sullinger apparently wanted Mike Anderson, but I think he would have still went back to Ohio.

I think Tommy Boyer was a strong backer of Stan Heath, and was the leader of the group to hire Stan Heath, and yes, I think Frank Broyles, who was also on the committee was impressed with Stan Heath also.

[Biggus Piggus]

No, Broyles hand-picked Heath and the committee rubber stamped it.  Keep up already.

[nwarazfan]

No, Broyles hand-picked Heath and the committee rubber stamped it.  Keep up already.

Stop downplaying the roles of our committees.  They have been failures both in the hiring of Nutt(which we know wasn't Broyles first choice) and Heath.  Look at Mizzou's current committee fiasco to see that they don't work.

[wrightobe]

No, Broyles hand-picked Heath and the committee rubber stamped it.  Keep up already.

I , of course, was far from being in the loop about the basketball selection committee, which I believe was John White's idea, but I based my opinion on the newspaper and TV reports, and comments from the members of the selection committee. 

Frank Broyles, was I believe, also a strong backer of Stan Heath.

[codeHog]

Good post. Sad to see Florida and LSU in the final eight in that we were as good as those teams when we wanted to be.

But even after all this breakdown of the season and last game, it still seems that Heath allowed his team's chance to win games to be almost totally in the hands of Eric Ferguson and his three point shooting ability.

When Heath was at Michigan State, they won big with some great guards. Stan sent out Ferguson in that role and it really held us back. If we had just faught the other team, with our pressure D, the whole game.........well, I say we are a top ten team.

Kentucky and Alabama showed what the SEC was really about this year (along with LSU & FL)

While the press had many convinced that the SEC was over rated and down, it looks like there may not have been any better confrence.

P.S. I will go to my grave saying that McBride, if he was the three point shooter we expected, could have been the difference in us winning the SEC and going to the final 8.  We lost so many of our games because we could not get just one key three point shot. IF he was a great one, he could have scored a couple of threes a game. So I blame most of our failures this year on the staff getting a big ZERO in the recruit that would have allowed us to win playing the style of ball Stan had us playing.

[Biggus Piggus]

The SEC was down in breadth of quality, but teams with young talent like Florida and LSU really came along as the season went on.  Bama was down, MSU way down, Ole Miss down even worse, Auburn made a dead cat bounce, Kentucky way off last season, Vanderbilt worse in SEC play, South Carolina worse in SEC play.  Only Tennessee, LSU, Arkansas and Florida were improved year over year.

I think we may have to rewrite our definition of what it takes to be a national title contender, though, at least for one year.  Nobody's close to perfect.  Some teams with glaring flaws are in the Final Four.  And the supposedly perfect team, UConn, shouldn't even be there.  They were not better than Washington.

[BigoBoys]

I don't appreciate the subject line.  I have never flunked at anything.  Your observations are correct and i suggest that you email them to Stan Heath.  It can be found on the UA website.

[Hog57]

Good info. Biggus..lots of work went into that.

By the way..i did e-mail this to Stan.

probably will not read it and he sure will not apply but just maybe..............

[Biggus Piggus]

I don't appreciate the subject line.  I have never flunked at anything.  Your observations are correct and i suggest that you email them to Stan Heath.  It can be found on the UA website.

A flunky is "literally a sidesman or attendant at your flank." Flunky is a derivative and alteration of flanker, "one who stands at a person's flank."

[mikeirwin]

No, Broyles hand-picked Heath and the committee rubber stamped it.  Keep up already.

I , of course, was far from being in the loop about the basketball selection committee, which I believe was John White's idea, but I based my opinion on the newspaper and TV reports, and comments from the members of the selection committee. 

Frank Broyles, was I believe, also a strong backer of Stan Heath.

They all agreed on Stan But Bill Self was Frank's first choice. They did not offer Self enough money to get him.

[Fatty McGee]

It's my understanding that they wanted Self to go through the committee process as well, correct?  And he refused (as he should have).

[Biggus Piggus]

It's my understanding that they wanted Self to go through the committee process as well, correct?  And he refused (as he should have).

Self wouldn't have gone through the committee.  They were simply afraid to pay him more than they were paying Nolan (stupid, gotta pay market rate, changes every year).  The committee was just a rubber stamp at best--the Nutt/Tuberville fiasco killed it.

[BPPig]

I did an analysis of the data that ksrazorback supplied and came up with a different conclusion. It seems only fair to compare the first five years.

Coach                Record   Winning %   Tournement Winning %
Richardson         118-36   77%            65%
Keady                98-44    69%             42%
Sutton               82-50    62%             58%
Heath                91-63    59%             60%

If you take into account the opponents strengths etc then Heath only really comes up short against the rarified air that NR breathed.

After watching the tourney so far I am even more convinced that few coaches can dramatically effect the game once the ball is in play. Heath is doing a decent job recruiting IMO and needs to have a chance to coach all his own players. I do appreciate the fact that I also never heard him alude to how "hard" it is to recruit to Fayetteville or whine about the probation. I disagree with some of his coaching but I feel he has earned his pay and is continuing to do so. If HS BB is being played somewhere in the off season there are the inevitable Heath sightings posted. I wish I could say the same about other programs up there.

I also think it would be a major mistake to let him go right now. I think other top coaches would want to make sure they would get a fair shake. I would like to hear about any of the other young guns out there. Bruce Pearl sure gave us a game by taking the air out of the ball. Who would y'all like to see?

[ksrazorback]

Yea BPPig you can dice it any way you like it but it all comes up not looking good for SH. Remember Named Head Coach at Arkansas: March 28, 2002. So when do ya recon SH will have his own guys... gee!!

What Tournament Winning % are you counting on??

Per Jerry Reed (Morning News)
"Heath, with some fans being fair and flexible, at least has made more than a dent in the pecking order of improvement each year.
His first lousy team went 9-19. His second not-so-good team finished 12-16.
Yeah, seems like improvement took awhile to take hold.
Some didn't think much of Heath after his third season -- his team went 18-12 and didn't take a NIT bid -- and that attitude continue this winter after losing to Ole Mississippi on the road on Feb. 15.
Suddenly, the crowd turned ugly.
Heath's ballclub, however, then produced six straight victories at home, on foreign soil and on a neutral turf.
On Selection Sunday -- that would be March 12 to be exact -- during the madness which is March, Arkansas was announced as the No. 8 seed with a 22-9 worksheet in its NCAA Tournament sub-regional in Dallas against No. 9 seed Bucknell.
Yeah, Bucknell won 59-55 in that heart-thumber.
But ...
Arkansas finally had made it to the "Big Dance" after a five-year disappearing act, which included a legendary coach leaving under a canopy of criticism."

I did an analysis of the data that ksrazorback supplied and came up with a different conclusion. It seems only fair to compare the first five years.

Coach                Record   Winning %   Tournement Winning %
Richardson         118-36   77%            65%
Keady                98-44    69%             42%
Sutton               82-50    62%             58%
Heath                91-63    59%             60%

If you take into account the opponents strengths etc then Heath only really comes up short against the rarified air that NR breathed.

After watching the tourney so far I am even more convinced that few coaches can dramatically effect the game once the ball is in play. Heath is doing a decent job recruiting IMO and needs to have a chance to coach all his own players. I do appreciate the fact that I also never heard him alude to how "hard" it is to recruit to Fayetteville or whine about the probation. I disagree with some of his coaching but I feel he has earned his pay and is continuing to do so. If HS BB is being played somewhere in the off season there are the inevitable Heath sightings posted. I wish I could say the same about other programs up there.

I also think it would be a major mistake to let him go right now. I think other top coaches would want to make sure they would get a fair shake. I would like to hear about any of the other young guns out there. Bruce Pearl sure gave us a game by taking the air out of the ball. Who would y'all like to see?

Do the right thing SH...

"Lov-um-Hawgs  :razorback: :razorback: :razorback:

[BPPig]

You know there are 3 types of lies. Lies, Damn Lies, and statistics. Tourn. winning % is an example and is just as valid as the other poop tht had been posted. There is much I wish SH would do better but I would love to have an idea of just whom anyone thinks could come in here and win a national championship. I don't think Bob Huggins could do it, he has not before.

My reasons for not wanting SH fired has many facets. The main one being that HDN is still the football coach and I am clueless how you could fire Heath and leave Nutt. I also want to see how he does without the 3 seniors on the team. He should do the right thing and stay.

[silvertip]

send your own resume to stan... he could certainly use what you bring to the table. 

That's a joke, but I'm just trying to make it clear somebody's watching him & the Razorback fan base is not oblivious.

No BP, the "Razorback fan base" is not oblivious. And you are not their spokesman.

Maybe Heath doesn't read this board because the "advice" of the habitual whiners here is irrelevant. Maybe the real majority of Hawg BB fans is pretty satisfied with the steady progress in recovering from Nolan's 5 year decline.

Maybe the few habitual Heath bashers/Nolan worshippers here are an irrelevant minority in the eyes of the BB coaches & those in the UA Athletic Dept & BOT whose opinions really matter.

I look forward to next BB season, which of course will continue the stady progress. A small part of my enjoying Heath's continued success will be the satisfaction of knowing how that makes some of the whiners suffer. WPS!!!

A 57 year old Hog fan.  Nothing wrong with that, but I can guess the obvious pattern here.  In fact, I can see it now...clearly.  You are one of those tired, yet incredibly predictable supporters, who live more in the past than you do in the future.  You are the type who comfortably assumes the voice and the mood of Razorback fans just as much as Biggus did in his original post, but you want to remain blissfully oblivious to the dissatisfaction of fans who have spent hard earned dollars and time to see our teams tank over and over again. 

It troubles you not that our coaches are some of the few who do not sit and field phone calls on call in talk shows or address their critics OR answer for many of their guffaws (like telling the media that we didn't need to press because we needed to save our legs?)  It is more than incredulous that things like that just seem to be modus operandi for some fans (such as you) who would settle for less...perhaps because you have some "INS" with the program which allow you to swagger around a complex in your newly purchased Hog festooned wind suit...which helps you look incredibly stylish at the conclusion of the game, when you are ranting about another screw job from the referees (yet you take no fault with a fractured game plan, or our players giving 38% effort on the court).  You aren't worried...your Razorback tennis shoes are MIGHTY WHITE (and you get to hang with the right people)!

The other Obvious is less conjecture and more stolen out of the mouth of smugness...from your own self absorbed posting.  This tells all...

"Maybe the few habitual Heath bashers/Nolan worshippers here are an irrelevant minority in the eyes of the BB coaches & those in the UA Athletic Dept & BOT whose opinions really matter."

In other words, the FANS matter not.  Congratulations, you have echoed the very opinion of your crusty and tired leader, Frank Broyles.  This is EXACTLY how the program treats fans.  Oh, we are fine if we are singing the praises of mediocrity while we continue to spend our money to help keep the program in the top 15 in merchandising revenues.  BOT opinions matter, but the minimum wake die hard fan from lower Arkansas who dents the family budget just to take the family to Dallas to see his beloved Hogs shame us all...he is not worth spit?  I ask, but I have read your answer to this question already.

Classic.

Go to hell you snob!  I too spent money to go watch our team...after cheering for them through the season.  I don't want Heath to fail, but I don't want us to be a laughing stock while I and other Razorback fans have to sit amidst a hostile crowd of Texas and Memphis fans.  That was exactly what happened to the Hog Nation and it wasn't pleasant.  WHEN does this EVER get to be about the fans and NOT about the BB staff, the UA Athletic Department or the seedy BOT?  When (if ever) will we EVER matter???

YAAAWWNNNN. Where to start, sweetheart? You, like Biggus, seem to think that all "fans" agree with you. And you just can't stand it that someone doesn't. Look at BP's subject line. First, he just can't stand it that Stan doesn't read his posts. AND, of course, anyone that doesn't share the opinions of the All-Knowing BP is just one of Heath's "flunkies."

Go to hell yourself  It is the senseless arrogance of "Moderators" like you & BP that will just make it that much sweeter for me, season after season, as Heath continues to haul the program back up out of the cess-pool that Nolan left it in. And as posters like you eat crow, year after year, while I am actually enjoying the team's success. Ha ha ha.

Har har har. He who laughs last, laughs best. I'm laughing even harder than last week, since the "really down" SEC has TWO in the Final Four & one in the NIT Final---while the almighty ACC, Big East, Big 12 have NONE & the almighty Big 10 has only Michigan left in the NIT. So, the profound "weak SEC' analysis by BP & Bomis is just proven WRONG---like all their other attempts to belittle the progress of Heath's teams.

You're out of touch with the majority of Hog fans. WE see it getting better al the time.   

[Biggus Piggus]

A 57 year old Hog fan.  Nothing wrong with that, but I can guess the obvious pattern here.  In fact, I can see it now...clearly.  You are one of those tired, yet incredibly predictable supporters, who live more in the past than you do in the future.  You are the type who comfortably assumes the voice and the mood of Razorback fans just as much as Biggus did in his original post, but you want to remain blissfully oblivious to the dissatisfaction of fans who have spent hard earned dollars and time to see our teams tank over and over again. 

It troubles you not that our coaches are some of the few who do not sit and field phone calls on call in talk shows or address their critics OR answer for many of their guffaws (like telling the media that we didn't need to press because we needed to save our legs?)  It is more than incredulous that things like that just seem to be modus operandi for some fans (such as you) who would settle for less...perhaps because you have some "INS" with the program which allow you to swagger around a complex in your newly purchased Hog festooned wind suit...which helps you look incredibly stylish at the conclusion of the game, when you are ranting about another screw job from the referees (yet you take no fault with a fractured game plan, or our players giving 38% effort on the court).  You aren't worried...your Razorback tennis shoes are MIGHTY WHITE (and you get to hang with the right people)!

The other Obvious is less conjecture and more stolen out of the mouth of smugness...from your own self absorbed posting.  This tells all...

"Maybe the few habitual Heath bashers/Nolan worshippers here are an irrelevant minority in the eyes of the BB coaches & those in the UA Athletic Dept & BOT whose opinions really matter."

In other words, the FANS matter not.  Congratulations, you have echoed the very opinion of your crusty and tired leader, Frank Broyles.  This is EXACTLY how the program treats fans.  Oh, we are fine if we are singing the praises of mediocrity while we continue to spend our money to help keep the program in the top 15 in merchandising revenues.  BOT opinions matter, but the minimum wake die hard fan from lower Arkansas who dents the family budget just to take the family to Dallas to see his beloved Hogs shame us all...he is not worth spit?  I ask, but I have read your answer to this question already.

Classic.

Go to hell you snob!  I too spent money to go watch our team...after cheering for them through the season.  I don't want Heath to fail, but I don't want us to be a laughing stock while I and other Razorback fans have to sit amidst a hostile crowd of Texas and Memphis fans.  That was exactly what happened to the Hog Nation and it wasn't pleasant.  WHEN does this EVER get to be about the fans and NOT about the BB staff, the UA Athletic Department or the seedy BOT?  When (if ever) will we EVER matter???

Beautiful.  I'm not as unhappy as you are, but that was good writing.

[silvertip]

The majority of Hog fans I know realize Heath is not a quality coach. No way we are better next year without Brewer. Too many new players that will need to adjust to big time ball. We will be rebuilding our rebuilding program. Makes me want to cry 

And just how many Hog fans do you know? The majority of Hog fans I know are satisfied that this year was just one more step on the way back---although of course we were not happy with the Bucknell game either.

Think about this old saying, HogginIt. "The coward dies a thousand deaths, but the brave man dies but once."

I'm not calling anyone a coward. But there is a point to that saying---which is that there is no sense imagining or crying over some "disaster" next year, when you really don't know what will happen. I guarantee Hawg coaches & athletes in any sport BELIEVE that next year will be better.

There were plenty of posters on this board---those I call whiners---who were giving up & "dieing" after each loss this BB season. Some no doubt could not enjoy the season & admit the progress because they were too busy dieing a thousand deaths.

And now, I see people already giving up on next year's team. Why live like that? I enjoyed this BB season & I fully expect next year's team to be better---with or without Ronnie. WPS!!!