Mr. SEC: "Is Bielema a Fish out of Water?"

[EastexHawg]

CBB does not have that luxury.  He's having to go out of state into much more competitive environments to build depth, and to expect the same result in year 3...is not realistic. 

So you not only know about all the players in Arkansas...every one of them...and who will be "available" in the next two years, but you also know their respective potentials after being a major college program for four or five years.

That's amazing.  You should probably go to work for Rivals or ESPN...or just open your own recruiting service and blow them all out of the water.

I bet you can probably go back and point out your posts in 2008 when you correctly predicted that Tyler Wilson, previously not even recruited by the Razorbacks until Petrino came along, would become an All-SEC QB.  I bet you nailed D.J. Williams as a Mackey Award winner coming out of high school, too.  If we could go back to 1993 I bet you were telling everyone who would listen that a walkon named Brandon Burlsworth was going to be a first team All-American.

[Hogs-n-Roses]

You could well be right.  So tell me again why long gets a $100 k bonus and a 100 k raise...for essentially striking out and settling for what he could get?

I think Wilson wants us to keep this to Bielema and be civil.

[Jeff "hogfanintx" Anderson]

This effectively sums up your ability to actually address the post accurately.  TOTAL FAILURE on your part.  I think you should read it again.   

 

I don't CARE about the argument about how great BP was at getting those kids to campus.  I don't care if it was the best recruiting in the history of mankind.  That's NOT my point AT ALL.  It is that he had players from the state TO RECRUIT.  CBB does not have that luxury.  He's having to go out of state into much more competitive environments to build depth, and to expect the same result in year 3...is not realistic. 

You must have a really long neck and great vision, because BP's in WKY now, and you can still somehow see despite your head being in his rear.  Amazing.   

And you must have a really round mouth to be able to hold  ( the names of) Jeff and Bert in there at the same time.

Oh poor Bert he can recruit, or COACH the talent on hand. ? What is is?  Are you saying all the players suck and there is no talent ? Or Bert can't coach what he has?

Man o man. Would love to sell real estate to people like you, and I'm not even a realtor.

[urkillnmesmalls]

So you not only know about all the players in Arkansas...every one of them...and who will be "available" in the next two years, but you also know their respective potentials after being a major college program for four or five years.

That's amazing.  You should probably go to work for Rivals or ESPN...or just open your own recruiting service and blow them all out of the water.

I bet you can probably go back and point out your posts in 2008 when you correctly predicted that Tyler Wilson, previously not even recruited by the Razorbacks until Petrino came along, would become an All-SEC QB.  I bet you nailed D.J. Williams as a Mackey Award winner coming out of high school, too.  If we could go back to 1993 I bet you were telling everyone who would listen that a walkon named Brandon Burlsworth was going to be a first team All-American.

Nope, but I don't need to.  I know they didn't come in last year, or this year...but you and others will still expect miracles in year three right? 

They will STILL be Fr. even if they come in the next few years, and the point that you guys are missing is that you don't win in the SEC with Fr.  Petrino won with the Arkansas kids as Jr.'s and Sr.'s.  That has NOTHING to do with any talent that may come in from Arkansas in the next two years. 

You guys worship at Petrino's feet, and it's DISGUSTING.  Keep it up though if it makes you feel better to run down CBB and prop up the liar, Bobby Petrino. 

[Biggus Piggus]

Let's start with Hunter Henry was going to be a Razorback.

No Petrino = no Mallett, No Wilson, No Joe Adams.  We know these are true because Mallett was not gonna play for Nutt.  Wilson was not looked at By Nutt, and Adams was a Verbal to USC before Nutt left.

Those players at least were available.

Maybe Arkansas gets its in-state talent infusion in the 2015 class. Already have four 4-stars and seven 3-stars in the rankings, and it's way early. The 247 Sports database lists 59 2015 prospects with any kind of college interest. They show 68 in the class of 2014, and it's pretty late in the process for that one.

It is hard to tell how many of those 68 are high-major prospects. Some like White Hall's Irvin Tisdale are not even rated despite being recruited to some degree by Arkansas and Auburn. And Memphis, where James Shibest landed.

Pretty high on the in-state list for 2014, you find West Memphis's Jarvis Cooper, who does not have a high-major offer yet. There's Deandre Murray of Springdale, who has mid-major offers.

[urkillnmesmalls]

And you must have a really round mouth to be able to hold  ( the names of) Jeff and Bert in there at the same time.

Oh poor Bert he can recruit, or COACH the talent on hand. ? What is is?  Are you saying all the players suck and there is no talent ? Or Bert can't coach what he has?

Man o man. Would love to sell real estate to people like you, and I'm not even a realtor.

Typical.  You've completely changed the argument once you realized that I'm giving facts, and you're throwing out nothing but lame opinions. 

Again...name the Arkansas talent that is going to come in this season that is on par with the classes BP had in his first two recruiting seasons.  I'm still waiting...but you'll change the subject again. 

[Jeff "hogfanintx" Anderson]

Nope, but I don't need to.  I know they didn't come in last year, or this year...but you and others will still expect miracles in year three right? 

They will STILL be Fr. even if they come in the next few years, and the point that you guys are missing is that you don't win in the SEC with Fr.  Petrino won with the Arkansas kids as Jr.'s and Sr.'s.  That has NOTHING to do with any talent that may come in from Arkansas in the next two years. 

You guys worship at Petrino's feet, and it's DISGUSTING.  Keep it up though if it makes you feel better to run down CBB and prop up the liar, Bobby Petrino. 

In three years the freshman will be freshman.  What will Collins, Williams, Henry, Allen, Kirkland etc be?

That was the weakest argument I have ever seen. You will have freshman each year .  Hey guess what .  So does every other school.

Are you suggesting Bert needs 5 years, or 7, or 10?

[Jeff "hogfanintx" Anderson]

Typical.  You've completely changed the argument once you realized that I'm giving facts, and you're throwing out nothing but lame opinions. 

Again...name the Arkansas talent that is going to come in this season that is on par with the classes BP had in his first two recruiting seasons.  I'm still waiting...but you'll change the subject again. 

Yep typical. The talent.  Name the talent.  Where were the big offers for child's, gragg, wright ?  Did they turn down Bama and LSu and Notre Dame?

[Jeff "hogfanintx" Anderson]

Typical.  You've completely changed the argument once you realized that I'm giving facts, and you're throwing out nothing but lame opinions. 

Again...name the Arkansas talent that is going to come in this season that is on par with the classes BP had in his first two recruiting seasons.  I'm still waiting...but you'll change the subject again. 

Typical what facts have you thrown out? Every kid he signs this feb will probably be a freshman in the fall.  Lmao. Arkansas the only school that works at? Or just in your mind when defending Bert?

[Biggus Piggus]

Yep typical. The talent.  Name the talent.  Where were the big offers for child's, gragg, wright ?  Did they turn down Bama and LSu and Notre Dame?

Are you trying to argue that Childs, Gragg and Wright were not highly talented? I'm not following.

[rude1]

Typical.  You've completely changed the argument once you realized that I'm giving facts, and you're throwing out nothing but lame opinions. 

Again...name the Arkansas talent that is going to come in this season that is on par with the classes BP had in his first two recruiting seasons.  I'm still waiting...but you'll change the subject again. 

So is it your contention that out of a team of 85 scholarship players, BP won because Ar. produced about 4 or 5 of them, game planing and putting them in the right scheme played no part?

[Jeff "hogfanintx" Anderson]

Are you trying to argue that Childs, Gragg and Wright were not highly talented? I'm not following.

I'm arguing that there is talent there now. Just nobody smart enough to out it to use.

[hoglady]

Gotta give BP credit for developing that talent.
I mean that's his wheelhouse, QB and receiver development.
Does anyone really think Brandon Allen and our current crop of receivers would look like they do if Petrino had been coaching them?

Now Bielema has got to do the same, if he's gonna be successful here.
He's got to develop the talent to suit his style of ball and he can't take 5 years to do it.

[jabohog]

Let's consider something else. Bert didn't under or over estimate the talent. He's a players coach, and that probably ain't going to change. He came in and tried to give all the senior players a chance to redeem themselves and overcome the crap they've face the last season. I think from that stand point he has done well, but it has cost and made us lose some games we might have had a better shot to win with some of the underclassmen. The old stigma from last year of, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen to us, hit at Rutgers and it was a snowball down hill. I have seen better execution and better play the last two game, but I have never seen worse luck. Bielema is eating this season for the seniors he inherited.

As far as a fish out of water? I don't think so in football, maybe some in this culture. As 56 said, it's the fights he picks that makes us southern folks wish he would keep his mouth shut until he starts winning on the field.

As far as recruiting goes, what coach of ours has ever recruited at the top of any conference we have ever played in? We have three West championships and I don't think any other team not named LSU or Alabama in the west can say that and we did it with mediocre recruiting. I know some of it was tainted and it doesn't always look good, but we were there in ATL getting our asses handed to us none the less. 

Give the man a chance. Demand as a fan what you wish, but support the staff and the especially the players. Doesn't mean you can't have your opinion, just stay off the do over bus for awhile. Look at this schedule as posted by Biggus Piggus.

About how THIS team has played against what's probably the toughest schedule an Arkansas team in any sport has ever faced.

Bowl team
lower division
dud
Bowl team
Bowl team
Bubble team
Bowl team
National champion in waiting
Bowl team
Bowl team
Bubble team
Bowl team

Ho-lee moley. I had never seen anything like it, and I've been conscious of Razorback football since 1967.

I've been conscious of Razorback football since 1965, the year we gave up our 22 game win streak and #1 ranking to LSU in the Cotton Bowl.

[Wants2Win]

It only takes 6 wins to go bowling..a lot of teams go to a bowl.

[jabohog]

It only takes 6 wins to go bowling..a lot of teams go to a bowl.

Look at our 11 win season, how many of them went to a bowl?

[Wants2Win]

Look at our 11 win season, how many of them went to a bowl?

How many? And your point being...

[jabohog]

How many? And your point being...

What was your point? Are you a lazy ass, did you even look it up? We beat two, TWO teams that had winning regular seasons, and I think one of them wound up losing a bowl game giving them a losing season. You see the point now? Gee I hope so or we don't need to talk anymore.

[EastexHawg]

So is it your contention that out of a team of 85 scholarship players, BP won because Ar. produced about 4 or 5 of them, game planing and putting them in the right scheme played no part?

It's not just his argument, it has become the primary recruiting talking point on this board when it comes to explaining Petrino's success.  On top of the fact that it both ignores every other aspect of his program AND assumes that his coaching had little to do with the development of Wright, Childs, Gragg, and Adams...it tries to make us all believe that Petrino got lucky with Arkansas talent without having to bring in out of state recruits.  I'm sure all of these guys appreciate how meaningless some appear to believe their contributions were:

Ryan Mallett...Texarkana, TX by way of Ann Arbor, Michigan
Knile Davis...Missouri City, TX
Tenarius Wright...Memphis, TN
Jerico Nelson...Destrahan, LA
Alfred Davis...College Park, GA
Tremain Thomas...Winnie, TX
Ronnie Wingo...St. Louis
Anthony Leon...Visalia, CA
Travis Swanson...Kingwood, TX
DeQuinta Jones...Bastrop, LA
Cobi Hamilton...Texarkana, TX
Rudell Crim...Tallahassee, FL
Ross Rasner...Waco, TX
Alvin Bailey...Broken Arrow, OK
Brandon Mitchell...Amite, LA
Robert Thomas...Muskogee, OK
Marquel Wade...Jacksonville, FL
Chris Smith...Mount Ulla, NC
Julian Horton...Norcross, GA
Tevin Mitchel...Mansfield, TX
DeMarcus Hodge...Monroe, LA
Horace Akadie...Irving, TX
Alonzo Highsmith...Missouri City, TX by way of Phoenix JC
Jonathan Williams...Allen, TX
Deatrich Wise...Lewisville, TX
Keon Hatcher...Owasso, OK
Darius Philon...Prichard, AL
Will Hines...Waco, TX
Jamichael Winston...Prichard, AL
Otha Peters...Covington, LA
D'Arthur Cowan...Olive Branch, MS
Trey Flowers...Huntsville, AL
Rohan Gaines...Bainbridge, GA
Kiero Small...Baltimore, MD by way of Salina, CA

Yeah, I'm sure all those players would agree that the only reason the Hogs were any good for a few years was because Petrino got lucky with 4-5 Arkansas players back in 2008...

[urkillnmesmalls]

In three years the freshman will be freshman.  What will Collins, Williams, Henry, Allen, Kirkland etc be?

That was the weakest argument I have ever seen. You will have freshman each year .  Hey guess what .  So does every other school.

Are you suggesting Bert needs 5 years, or 7, or 10?

Exactly.  So you're saying those kids are the same level and caliber of playmakers that Petrino had?  You're not even listing a QB in your list, much less a single WR and play maker.  LOL 

[urkillnmesmalls]

It's not just his argument, it has become the primary recruiting talking point on this board when it comes to explaining Petrino's success.  On top of the fact that it both ignores every other aspect of his program AND assumes that his coaching had little to do with the development of Wright, Childs, Gragg, and Adams...it tries to make us all believe that Petrino got lucky with Arkansas talent without having to bring in out of state recruits.  I'm sure all of these guys appreciate how meaningless some appear to believe their contributions were:

Ryan Mallett...Texarkana, TX by way of Ann Arbor, Michigan
Knile Davis...Missouri City, TX
Tenarius Wright...Memphis, TN
Jerico Nelson...Destrahan, LA
Alfred Davis...College Park, GA
Tremain Thomas...Winnie, TX
Ronnie Wingo...St. Louis
Anthony Leon...Visalia, CA
Travis Swanson...Kingwood, TX
DeQuinta Jones...Bastrop, LA
Cobi Hamilton...Texarkana, TX
Rudell Crim...Tallahassee, FL
Ross Rasner...Waco, TX
Alvin Bailey...Broken Arrow, OK
Brandon Mitchell...Amite, LA
Robert Thomas...Muskogee, OK
Marquel Wade...Jacksonville, FL
Chris Smith...Mount Ulla, NC
Julian Horton...Norcross, GA
Tevin Mitchel...Mansfield, TX
DeMarcus Hodge...Monroe, LA
Horace Akadie...Irving, TX
Alonzo Highsmith...Missouri City, TX by way of Phoenix JC
Jonathan Williams...Allen, TX
Deatrich Wise...Lewisville, TX
Keon Hatcher...Owasso, OK
Darius Philon...Prichard, AL
Will Hines...Waco, TX
Jamichael Winston...Prichard, AL
Otha Peters...Covington, LA
D'Arthur Cowan...Olive Branch, MS
Trey Flowers...Huntsville, AL
Rohan Gaines...Bainbridge, GA
Kiero Small...Baltimore, MD by way of Salina, CA

Yeah, I'm sure all those players would agree that the only reason the Hogs were any good for a few years was because Petrino got lucky with 4-5 Arkansas players back in 2008...

East...Your argument is lame.  Yes, he developed that talent.  But tell the truth...if Mallett along with Childs, JA, DJW, and JW...were ADDED TO THE TEAM WE HAVE NOW, how much do our chances of winning go up of beating MSU?   

That's what I'm saying.  Yes...obviously we had other players on the team, and obviously the kids that were there executed BP's system very well, but the fact that you and others are running CBB down at the EXPENSE of BP is FAR more ludicrous than those that are saying that BP benefited from those stand out players, with a good supporting cast. 

What is funny is you guys argue this..."Well, BP would have won at least 6 or 7 games this season with these players." 

Is that some great accomplishment in what would have been his 6th season here?  I thought he was supposed to be a perpetual 10 win guy.  If you can make a solid argument that he would win 10 games this season, then I'd love to hear it.  The kids that should be playing should be at least Soph's in the SEC, so other than the Fr., the kids that should be on the field were recruited by BP. 

The fact that you guys argue that he could win at least 6 or 7 games is a blatant admission that the talent on this team is NOT what it was in 2010 and 2011.  You've already said he was the greatest coach we'll ever have, so how else do you possibly explain that?  You act like he can coach up anyone, so why only 6-7 wins?  Why not 10?       

[HiggiePiggy]

What was your point? Are you a lazy ass, did you even look it up? We beat two, TWO teams that had winning regular seasons, and I think one of them wound up losing a bowl game giving them a losing season. You see the point now? Gee I hope so or we don't need to talk anymore.

Auburn, South Carolina are the 2 teams that had winning regular seasons in the end and both won their bowl games.  We also played Kansas state who lost to us.

We beat 5 teams that played in bowls that year.  If you count Kansas State then we beat 6 teams that played in bowl games.   

[LSUFan]

I didn't realize CBB said this in Feb 2012:


"I can tell you this, we at the Big Ten don't want to be like the SEC — in any way, shape or form."


So, we got that going for us.  Which is nice.

Those facts come at you so fast........

But he's selling SEC cars now, his pitch changed, so he can get paid.

[FATHAWG08]

Hey people lets not forget where Saban came from, Michigan State. Yes Saban is a Great Coach but if you compared their records when they became coaches in the SEC Bielema looks very strong. This just tells me how bad the situation was in Hog Land. 24 players no longer with us, that's something you can't never get back. It takes a full cycle 2/3 years of his type of players who or not quitters. Let the man right this ship, yes it's going to take some time. But what I saw the last few weeks before national Signing Day tells me we got the right guy, Collins,Kirkland,Koehler, Skipper this is how you get it going in the right direction. And I do believe the rest of this recruiting class will be above Razorback standards from years past. He's in it for the long haul.He's taking his lumps now but the kids he recruited last year are getting bigger and stronger because he put the program and kids first and redshirted. We will be much better next year. We may not win as many games as we would like but we will not have another season like this under his watch. These boys will be men come next August and I truly believe this.

[HiggiePiggy]

Hey people lets not forget where Saban came from, Michigan State. Yes Saban is a Great Coach but if you compared their records when they became coaches in the SEC Bielema looks very strong. This just tells me how bad the situation was in Hog Land. 24 players no longer with us, that's something you can't never get back. It takes a full cycle 2/3 years of his type of players who or not quitters. Let the man right this ship, yes it's going to take some time. But what I saw the last few weeks before national Signing Day tells me we got the right guy, Collins,Kirkland,Koehler, Skipper this is how you get it going in the right direction. And I do believe the rest of this recruiting class will be above Razorback standards from years past. He's in it for the long haul.He's taking his lumps now but the kids he recruited last year are getting bigger and stronger because he put the program and kids first and redshirted. We will be much better next year. We may not win as many games as we would like but we will not have another season like this under his watch. These boys will be men come next August and I truly believe this.

Did Beliema take over an 0-11 team the year before he showed up?  Or was he handed a team already built up for him? 

[Jeff "hogfanintx" Anderson]

Exactly.  So you're saying those kids are the same level and caliber of playmakers that Petrino had?  You're not even listing a QB in your list, much less a single WR and play maker.  LOL 

Guess you overlooked the name Allen in my post.

[EastexHawg]

East...Your argument is lame.  Yes, he developed that talent.  But tell the truth...if Mallett along with Childs, JA, DJW, and JW...were ADDED TO THE TEAM WE HAVE NOW, how much do our chances of winning go up of beating MSU?   

What if Petrino had had Shawn Andrews, DMac, Billy Ray Smith, Jr., Dan Hampton, Ronnie Caveness, Steve Atwater, and Loyd Phillips, too?  What if Napoleon had had a squadron of B-52s at Waterloo?

I've got an idea...why don't all coaches rest on their own laurels?  Why don't they recruit, develop, and COACH their own talent?  You're saying the men (two of them) Jeff Long picked to replace Petrino can't be expected to win unless they have their own players PLUS numerous players from the past, such as players that Petrino himself developed and coached.  Talk about lame...

How much do you think Gus' chances of beating Saban in the Iron Bowl would go up if he had Cam, Nick Fairley, Carlos Dansby, Carlos Rogers...and Bo?

You've rehearsed and regurgitated your excuses so often that you believe them yourself and think everyone else should have to believe them, too.

And once again, I have not ripped Bielema.  I am concerned about the football program, not personalities.  I'm trying to give him a chance to show what he can do.  But...at the same time...I believe there is NO EXCUSE for how far we have fallen in a mere two years.  NONE.  I lay the responsibility for that at the feet of not Bielema, but the man who has been here throughout the disaster and is being paid seven figures to make decisions...Jeff Long.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Guess you overlooked the name Allen in my post.

Guess so... 

Maybe you're right.  Maybe no amount of recruiting, and coaching kids to learn this system is going to make CBB successful here.  I have NOT refuted that a single time, because I'm measuring based on year three when we should at least see things going solidly in the right direction. 

The point I'm making, that you and others are refuting with your arguments about how great BP was, is that he had MORE PLAYERS with talent on the field in 2008 and 2009 learning his system, so that they could excel in 2010 and 2011, than CBB has out there right now.  As he adds them, they will improve, but there's not an influx of top in state kids in those first two classes that Arkansas has historically ALWAYS relied on to make our runs at any sort of conference titles.  Go look through history at our difference makers and where they were from... 

What's going to happen, is he's going to improve to about 8 wins in 2015, and you and others are going to call that a failure and CONTINUE to use CBP as the measuring stick.  It's completely irrational after what he did to our program in the end, and I will NEVER agree with your constant denigration of the current staff until you've given them a chance beyond the first year with a defense that he inherited that can't stop anyone.

They didn't not all forget how to coach.   

[Jeff "hogfanintx" Anderson]

Guess so... 

Maybe you're right.  Maybe no amount of recruiting, and coaching kids to learn this system is going to make CBB successful here.  I have NOT refuted that a single time, because I'm measuring based on year three when we should at least see things going solidly in the right direction. 

The point I'm making, that you and others are refuting with your arguments about how great BP was, is that he had MORE PLAYERS with talent on the field in 2008 and 2009 learning his system, so that they could excel in 2010 and 2011, than CBB has out there right now.  As he adds them, they will improve, but there's not an influx of top in state kids in those first two classes that Arkansas has historically ALWAYS relied on to make our runs at any sort of conference titles.  Go look through history at our difference makers and where they were from... 

What's going to happen, is he's going to improve to about 8 wins in 2015, and you and others are going to call that a failure and CONTINUE to use CBP as the measuring stick.  It's completely irrational after what he did to our program in the end, and I will NEVER agree with your constant denigration of the current staff until you've given them a chance beyond the first year with a defense that he inherited that can't stop anyone.

They didn't not all forget how to coach.   

That's all great. Maybe he gets it done.  Maybe he doesn't.  My point is, has been, and always will be that this all didn't have to happen.  The program didn't have to be destroyed because of what Petrino did.  The decision he made was wrong. Longs decision to fire him was wrong, hiring JLS was wrong, and it's my opinion that hiring CBB was wrong.  Too much of a 180 there.

Hey i can wait 3 or 4 or 7 years.  Only because I have have no choice.

[Jeff "hogfanintx" Anderson]

What if Petrino had had Shawn Andrews, DMac, Billy Ray Smith, Jr., Dan Hampton, Ronnie Caveness, Steve Atwater, and Loyd Phillips, too?  What if Napoleon had had a squadron of B-52s at Waterloo?

I've got an idea...why don't all coaches rest on their own laurels?  Why don't they recruit, develop, and COACH their own talent?  You're saying the men (two of them) Jeff Long picked to replace Petrino can't be expected to win unless they have their own players PLUS numerous players from the past, such as players that Petrino himself developed and coached.  Talk about lame...

How much do you think Gus' chances of beating Saban in the Iron Bowl would go up if he had Cam, Nick Fairley, Carlos Dansby, Carlos Rogers...and Bo?

You've rehearsed and regurgitated your excuses so often that you believe them yourself and think everyone else should have to believe them, too.

And once again, I have not ripped Bielema.  I am concerned about the football program, not personalities.  I'm trying to give him a chance to show what he can do.  But...at the same time...I believe there is NO EXCUSE for how far we have fallen in a mere two years.  NONE.  I lay the responsibility for that at the feet of not Bielema, but the man who has been here throughout the disaster and is being paid seven figures to make decisions...Jeff Long.

Spot on!

[urkillnmesmalls]

That's all great. Maybe he gets it done.  Maybe he doesn't.  My point is, has been, and always will be that this all didn't have to happen.  The program didn't have to be destroyed because of what Petrino did.  The decision he made was wrong. Longs decision to fire him was wrong, hiring JLS was wrong, and it's my opinion that hiring CBB was wrong.  Too much of a 180 there.

Hey i can wait 3 or 4 or 7 years.  Only because I have have no choice.

Well, it's my opinion that hiring CBP was a mistake, now that we have the convenience of hindsight.  His debacle is why we are where we are, even though you're blaming JL for it. 

It is so irrational that it's not even funny.  If this was all JL, then why is BP at WKY?  Why didn't another program see the epic failure by the man you hate and think is completely incompetent, and snatch him up faster than the PS4's at Wal-Mart last night? 

I know why...the guy is a LIAR, and a liability.  Let's see if he can build a team at WKY without the Arkansas kids who put him on the map. 

[urkillnmesmalls]

What if Petrino had had Shawn Andrews, DMac, Billy Ray Smith, Jr., Dan Hampton, Ronnie Caveness, Steve Atwater, and Loyd Phillips, too?  What if Napoleon had had a squadron of B-52s at Waterloo?

I've got an idea...why don't all coaches rest on their own laurels?  Why don't they recruit, develop, and COACH their own talent?  You're saying the men (two of them) Jeff Long picked to replace Petrino can't be expected to win unless they have their own players PLUS numerous players from the past, such as players that Petrino himself developed and coached.  Talk about lame...

How much do you think Gus' chances of beating Saban in the Iron Bowl would go up if he had Cam, Nick Fairley, Carlos Dansby, Carlos Rogers...and Bo?

You've rehearsed and regurgitated your excuses so often that you believe them yourself and think everyone else should have to believe them, too.

And once again, I have not ripped Bielema.  I am concerned about the football program, not personalities.  I'm trying to give him a chance to show what he can do.  But...at the same time...I believe there is NO EXCUSE for how far we have fallen in a mere two years.  NONE.  I lay the responsibility for that at the feet of not Bielema, but the man who has been here throughout the disaster and is being paid seven figures to make decisions...Jeff Long.

What if...BP hadn't lied to everyone?  Then you wouldn't be on here acting like a jilted lover right? 

The "excuse" that you refer to is thanks to Bobby Petrino.  You want to blame someone else...fine, you've made that clear. 

I just ask you for this.  Put your money where your mouth is, and give up the constant propping up of BP, and support CBB and the staff.  You claim you haven't said anything negative about him, but your posts certainly don't support your claim. 

You have no control over what happened, and no control over what happens other than one empty seat, and a history of posts on Hogville that make it look like the only thing that could ever lead to success here is if BP hadn't been fired.  Well...guess what?  That ship sailed bud...

GIVE IT THREE YEARS.  You claim you're trying to give him a chance.  You're not trying hard enough. 

[urkillnmesmalls]

Spot on!

Spot off. 

[bigbadhog]

Exactly.  So you're saying those kids are the same level and caliber of playmakers that Petrino had?  You're not even listing a QB in your list, much less a single WR and play maker.  LOL 

BP would have won more than BB this year... 

[hawgsalot]

BP would have won more than BB this year...

CBB would have won more at WKU this year.... Nanny Nanny boo boo.  I love how everybody somehow overlooks the elephant in the room.........ITS NOT ABOUT THE OFFENSE ON THIS TEAM OR ANY OF THE LAST FEW YEARS.........IT's THE DEFENSE!  Yes Petrino could crossing route the teams he was favored against to death.  As soon as a big bad D came along somehow we couldn't even stop their pedestrian offenses yet our high flying O was dead in the water with all those bigtime qbs and wrs. Petrino could not recruit Defense, Petrino certainly couldn't coach it or out scheme defense.

[urkillnmesmalls]

BP would have won more than BB this year...

I cooked an awesome pot of chili last night too.  Had every bit as much impact as your statement on anything related to the program. 

The Fr. and Soph's being required to play on defense thanks to BP's neglect with recruiting...IS impacting the program however.  Directly. 

You want to take some more shots at CBB.  That make you feel better to think that BP is Einstein, and his talents are being wasted as the fearless leader of the mighty Hilltoppers?  I could live with losing you as a Hog fan....sleep just fine tonight.   

[urkillnmesmalls]

CBB would have won more at WKU this year.... Nanny Nanny boo boo.  I love how everybody somehow overlooks the elephant in the room.........ITS NOT ABOUT THE OFFENSE ON THIS TEAM OR ANY OF THE LAST FEW YEARS.........IT's THE DEFENSE!  Yes Petrino could crossing route the teams he was favored against to death.  As soon as a big bad D came along somehow we couldn't even stop their pedestrian offenses yet our high flying O was dead in the water with all those bigtime qbs and wrs. Petrino could not recruit Defense, Petrino certainly couldn't coach it or out scheme defense.

Let me take a crack at the appropriate response here by the BP lovers. 

Our defense was good enough to go 21-5.  Look at us now.  BP would make the adjustments at halftime, like the 2011 TAMU game, and then we'd play much better in the second half.  He just didn't have time to do everything, and he never had the right defensive coordinator to appropriately handle that responsibility.  He was focused on the offense. 

Not to debunk that.  Why couldn't we play better defense to START the game?  Why wait until half?  Did he not even WATCH the film on the opposition's offense? 

He referred to OUR defense as "THEM" on multiple occasions in public.  That needs to soak in for a few of you out there...   

[Redhogs]

That's all great. Maybe he gets it done.  Maybe he doesn't.  My point is, has been, and always will be that this all didn't have to happen.  The program didn't have to be destroyed because of what Petrino did.  The decision he made was wrong. Longs decision to fire him was wrong, hiring JLS was wrong, and it's my opinion that hiring CBB was wrong.  Too much of a 180 there.

Hey i can wait 3 or 4 or 7 years.  Only because I have have no choice.

Petrino's gone...we're stuck with Bert...it is what it is. I personally don't think he is half the coach CBP is, on the field, X's and Os's, etc. I really want to be wrong, sick of losing, sick of excuses. Bert lovers can spin it anyway they want, but his first season has been a major disappointment and allot of it is on him. Can he fix it? Don't know...NOBODY does at this point, if they are being honest. It's all just opinion, but Rome is burning...and that's a fact.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Petrino's gone...we're stuck with Bert...it is what it is. I personally don't think he is half the coach CBP is, on the field, X's and Os's, etc. I really want to be wrong, sick of losing, sick of excuses. Bert lovers can spin it anyway they want, but his first season has been a major disappointment and allot of it is on him. Can he fix it? Don't know...NOBODY does at this point, if they are being honest. It's all just opinion, but Rome is burning...and that's a fact.

Red...name a Bert lover.  ONE.  You are not required to be a Bert lover to want the program to succeed.  I know it amazes you, but you don't even have to be a BP hater to do it either. 

There's no spin.  Just patience.  Either you have it, or you don't.  I thought you had turned the corner recently with some comments you made, but just below the surface, there's still that belief that CBP could do no wrong, and the youth on the field has nothing to do with him.  I'll concede that CBB has made some very suspect in game coaching decisions to this point.  I'll concede that he's stubborn, and going to instill his system even if it means losing games doing it.  He'll may fail, but he's going to go down with the ship under his command, doing it his way.  He should pass more on first down, and where did the slant pass go?  I could go on with some critical things. 

BUT...the defense...is primarily on BP.  We can't play a zone, because we can't tackle.  We can't play man, because we don't have the speed.  We can't stop the run effectively, because our LB's lack experience.  We can rush the passer, and if we don't get sacks...the opposition scores on every possession.  Why?  Because there is TALENT on the D-line. 

What's better?  Blame CBB for everything, or allow some blame to go on the ex coach for the shape of the defense, and at least concede that maybe...just maybe...BP may not have done a bang up job with recruiting for.   

[Redhogs]

Red...name a Bert lover.  ONE.  You are not required to be a Bert lover to want the program to succeed.  I know it amazes you, but you don't even have to be a BP hater to do it either. 

There's no spin.  Just patience.  Either you have it, or you don't.  I thought you had turned the corner recently with some comments you made, but just below the surface, there's still that belief that CBP could do no wrong, and the youth on the field has nothing to do with him.  I'll concede that CBB has made some very suspect in game coaching decisions to this point.  I'll concede that he's stubborn, and going to instill his system even if it means losing games doing it.  He'll may fail, but he's going to go down with the ship under his command, doing it his way.  He should pass more on first down, and where did the slant pass go?  I could go on with some critical things. 

BUT...the defense...is primarily on BP.  We can't play a zone, because we can't tackle.  We can't play man, because we don't have the speed.  We can't stop the run effectively, because our LB's lack experience.  We can rush the passer, and if we don't get sacks...the opposition scores on every possession.  Why?  Because there is TALENT on the D-line. 

What's better?  Blame CBB for everything, or allow some blame to go on the ex coach for the shape of the defense, and at least concede that maybe...just maybe...BP may not have done a bang up job with recruiting for.   

" I thought you had turned the corner recently with some comments you made, but just below the surface, there's still that belief that CBP could do no wrong, and the youth on the field has nothing to do with him." ...That's just not true, I was speaking only to his coaching, yes I do think he is a great coach, as a person, not so much. His actions off the field destroyed a top D-1 football program, and probably his own career. That said, I don't disagree with much else in this post....except to say, after watching CBB for almost a full year, I don't have near the confidence in his ability to succeed in the SEC as others do on this board..and it has nothing to do with the players he does or doesn't have right now..just my opinion...and I do hope I'm wrong. FYI, I was a CBB supporter until I saw him operate this season.

[EastexHawg]

CBB would have won more at WKU this year.... Nanny Nanny boo boo.  I love how everybody somehow overlooks the elephant in the room.........ITS NOT ABOUT THE OFFENSE ON THIS TEAM OR ANY OF THE LAST FEW YEARS.........IT's THE DEFENSE!  Yes Petrino could crossing route the teams he was favored against to death.

You mean like when we were beating South Carolina, Auburn, Texas A&M, Ole Miss, and Mississippi State (as in last year) instead of getting curb stomped by them?  Is that your point?  Because if your point is "Petrino could only beat the teams that are now stomping a mudhole in our arses week in and week out"...you may want to consider not entering that college debate tournament next week.

As soon as a big bad D came along somehow we couldn't even stop their pedestrian offenses yet our high flying O was dead in the water with all those bigtime qbs and wrs. Petrino could not recruit Defense, Petrino certainly couldn't coach it or out scheme defense.

Let me see if I understand the logic here, too.  Arkansas couldn't land defensive players good enough to beat Alabama while he was the coach because PETRINO SUCKS AT RECRUITING.  That has to be the argument, that he couldn't beat Alabama, because he was beating LSU half the time and everyone else regularly.

But now that Petrino is gone, his successor(s) can't be expected to even approach his success rate in less than 3-5 years because THE STATE OF ARKANSAS DOESN'T PUT OUT ENOUGH D-1 TALENT FOR THAT TO HAPPEN.

Does that pretty well sum it up?  Because that's what I am reading... 

[Jeff "hogfanintx" Anderson]

Spot off. 

_ off.

[ShadowTheHedgehog]

How could he have underestimated something he didn't even look at.
Coach B himself said he NEVER watched any game film on these players. He didn't want that to influence his evaluation of the team. He never saw any of them play until spring practice.

This is one thing I blame CBB for. I am all for the 1-3 year pass for him to build his program and all that, but not knowing what you have and what you are dealing with is always a bad move.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Cute move by whoever the mod is that changed Bret to Bert....   

Juvenile. 

[hawgsalot]

You mean like when we were beating South Carolina, Auburn, Texas A&M, Ole Miss, and Mississippi State (as in last year) instead of getting curb stomped by them?  Is that your point?  Because if your point is "Petrino could only beat the teams that are now stomping a mudhole in our arses week in and week out"...you may want to consider not entering that college debate tournament next week.

Let me see if I understand the logic here, too.  Arkansas couldn't land defensive players good enough to beat Alabama while he was the coach because PETRINO SUCKS AT RECRUITING.  That has to be the argument, that he couldn't beat Alabama, because he was beating LSU half the time and everyone else regularly.

But now that Petrino is gone, his successor(s) can't be expected to even approach his success rate in less than 3-5 years because THE STATE OF ARKANSAS DOESN'T PUT OUT ENOUGH D-1 TALENT FOR THAT TO HAPPEN.

Does that pretty well sum it up?  Because that's what I am reading...

Hmm S. carolina, A&M, Ole Miss weren't very good when we beat them and we beat the teams we were suppose too or favored to win for the most part.  S. Carolina was real good in 2011, we were favored by 5.  None of the rest of those were suppose to be a game.  Now other than Carolina none of those teams stomped mudholes in us this year.

You speculate and pontificate a bunch in your rambling but the bottom line is Petrino didn't have good defenses in his four years.  Defensive recruiting obviously was less than to be  desired and scheme as well.  Now CBB seems to put a lot more emphasis on the entire game not just Offense.  We will know how that works out in a couple years but if your assertion is that some great magical scheme or Petrino's scheme was going to beat the power teams like bama and LSU (when their good), then it wasn't nor hasn't happened.  You either match them on D or you have a heisman crazy good QB.  That's what history tells us.  I really wish we could out scheme bama but it's laughable to think it actually would work.

[wildturkey8]

Hmm S. carolina, A&M, Ole Miss weren't very good when we beat them and we beat the teams we were suppose too or favored to win for the most part.  S. Carolina was real good in 2011, we were favored by 5.  None of the rest of those were suppose to be a game.  Now other than Carolina none of those teams stomped mudholes in us this year.

You speculate and pontificate a bunch in your rambling but the bottom line is Petrino didn't have good defenses in his four years.  Defensive recruiting obviously was less than to be  desired and scheme as well.  Now CBB seems to put a lot more emphasis on the entire game not just Offense.  We will know how that works out in a couple years but if your assertion is that some great magical scheme or Petrino's scheme was going to beat the power teams like bama and LSU (when their good), then it wasn't nor hasn't happened.  You either match them on D or you have a heisman crazy good QB.  That's what history tells us.  I really wish we could out scheme bama but it's laughable to think it actually would work.

South Carolina won the Eastern Division in both 2010 and 2011.  A little bit of fact checking can go a long way.

[hawgsalot]

9-5 in 2010 finished unranked so let's not be coy, we were favored in both years.  I'm not saying they weren't good teams but we were suppose to win.  The east was horrible in 2010 and 2011.

I guess you guys are trying to say we had good defenses in Petrino's 4 years.  Well the college football world absolutely disagrees with you.  It's a weak argument.  Fact is Petrino puts more emphasis on offense, it works against everyone but the power teams like i said.

[LR54]

You mean like when we were beating South Carolina, Auburn, Texas A&M, Ole Miss, and Mississippi State (as in last year) instead of getting curb stomped by them?  Is that your point?  Because if your point is "Petrino could only beat the teams that are now stomping a mudhole in our arses week in and week out"...you may want to consider not entering that college debate tournament next week.

Let me see if I understand the logic here, too.  Arkansas couldn't land defensive players good enough to beat Alabama while he was the coach because PETRINO SUCKS AT RECRUITING.  That has to be the argument, that he couldn't beat Alabama, because he was beating LSU half the time and everyone else regularly.

But now that Petrino is gone, his successor(s) can't be expected to even approach his success rate in less than 3-5 years because THE STATE OF ARKANSAS DOESN'T PUT OUT ENOUGH D-1 TALENT FOR THAT TO HAPPEN.

Does that pretty well sum it up?  Because that's what I am reading...

Speaking of predecessors.

Nutt won 10 games in 2006. It took Petrino 3 years to equal that after inheriting an 8 win team from 2007.

Nutt played in 2 SEC Championship games. Petrino didn't equal that.

Nutt had an overall winning percentage of 68%. Petrino had 66.6%.

Nutt beat top 5 teams. Petrino didn't.

Nutt had an SEC winning percentage of 52.5%. Petrino had 53.1%.

That's right, Petrino was a whopping .6% better in SEC winning percentage than Nutt!

Petrino led the SEC in passing with a bad running game and bad defense.

Nutt led the SEC in rushing with a bad passing game and bad defense.

So overall, Petrino had a slightly better winning percentage in the SEC than Nutt. That's about it. That's reality, not the fantasy some have created.

CBB's Wisconsin teams featured balanced run/pass yardage offenses with good to very good defenses. That's something Arkansas hasn't done in the last 15 years.

Maybe we should give it a minute or two to see how it works. Because we've seen what didn't work for a lot longer than that.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Speaking of predecessors.

Nutt won 10 games in 2006. It took Petrino 3 years to equal that after inheriting an 8 win team from 2007.

Nutt played in 2 SEC Championship games. Petrino didn't equal that.

Nutt had an overall winning percentage of 68%. Petrino had 66.6%.

Nutt beat top 5 teams. Petrino didn't.

Nutt had an SEC winning percentage of 52.5%. Petrino had 53.1%.

That's right, Petrino was a whopping .6% better in SEC winning percentage than Nutt!

Petrino led the SEC in passing with a bad running game and bad defense.

Nutt led the SEC in rushing with a bad passing game and bad defense.

So overall, Petrino had a slightly better winning percentage in the SEC than Nutt. That's about it. That's reality, not the fantasy some have created.

CBB's Wisconsin teams featured balanced run/pass yardage offenses with good to very good defenses. That's something Arkansas hasn't done in the last 15 years.

Maybe we should give it a minute or two to see how it works. Because we've seen what didn't work for a lot longer than that.

T minus three minutes before you get.."Bama was on probation, and the SEC was down during those years, and BP had to win with the scraps Nutt left, etc., etc." 

Meanwhile, they'll gladly use 21-5 as a whipping post when it's convenient to highlight the "good years."  No need to look at the overall record, or to even consider that maybe there was a drop off looming starting in 2012. 

The biggest victory in the recent history of our program was in 2007 to knock LSU from the NC race when they were number 1, only for them to still get lotto winner lucky and still get to play for and win it.  I know no one wants to concede that it happened under Nutt, but it did. 

And for the detractors of CBB, I still submit that if HDN could have 10 win seasons here, then what makes it so unreasonable to think that CBB can't do it too?  Think about that for a second.... 

[Redhogs]

Speaking of predecessors.

Nutt won 10 games in 2006. It took Petrino 3 years to equal that after inheriting an 8 win team from 2007.

Nutt played in 2 SEC Championship games. Petrino didn't equal that.

Nutt had an overall winning percentage of 68%. Petrino had 66.6%.

Nutt beat top 5 teams. Petrino didn't.

Nutt had an SEC winning percentage of 52.5%. Petrino had 53.1%.

That's right, Petrino was a whopping .6% better in SEC winning percentage than Nutt!

Petrino led the SEC in passing with a bad running game and bad defense.

Nutt led the SEC in rushing with a bad passing game and bad defense.

So overall, Petrino had a slightly better winning percentage in the SEC than Nutt. That's about it. That's reality, not the fantasy some have created.

CBB's Wisconsin teams featured balanced run/pass yardage offenses with good to very good defenses. That's something Arkansas hasn't done in the last 15 years.

Maybe we should give it a minute or two to see how it works. Because we've seen what didn't work for a lot longer than that.

Yea you're right...how stupid we didn't give Nutt another 10 years to lead us to the promised land...gotta love it. But never fear...CBB may be your new Nutt.