Plea to the "Sky is falling...."

[razorbackfan]

What don't you understand about many of us having doubts? Doubts and calling for the plug to be pulled on a coach are totally different things.

Only the guys with 1-100 posts are the ones actually using the word "fire" or are actually calling for his job. The guys who post often who are skeptics are only being critical of what we see. Isn't that the point of the message board? Hold your foresight and we will hold ours because right now, that's all it is. Obviously no one knows what the future holds, but there is writing on the wall, and that's all I have to read.

You act as if us not being blindly optimistic about Pel is something personal or disloyal. Just as you said, we want to win as badly as you do but we weren't afraid to question a coach that is getting blown out at HOME to a crap Auburn team, especially after we have shown we are capable of playing with anyone.

When it comes to writing on the wall, look at Petrino's class and look at Pelphrey's current and incoming class and tell me how you honestly can blame someone for having doubts? Petrino had EVERY recruiting disadvantage known to man; media glorifying the fired coach, media turding all over his reputation, rival coaches doing the same, being in the SEC where EVERYONE has killer facilities and a far inferior(at least recent) tradition to our basketball program.

Pelphrey being in a difficult recruiting situation or the argument that Arkansas isn't big name basketball carries no weight whatsoever with me. He has every advantage known to man;incredible facilities, tons of fans, tons of history and tons of money backing the program. Explain to me why it's not okay for us to have doubts when we are recruiting academic risks against Sun Belt and Conference USA teams.

If you don't understand why people were totally fine with a 5-7 football season and aren't with our current basketball season, you must not be watching either. Massive improvements in attitude, execution and overall culture with the football team were clear by the LSU game. The same CANNOT be said about basketball. Besides, its also Pel's second year. He's had plenty of time to institute a culture, and from what I see that culture apparently is skipping class, throwing tantrums, getting DWIs and whatever the heck Patrick Beverly did AFTER John Pelphrey had been his coach for a year to get kicked off the team. Sorry but that list of achievements doesn't inspire unconditional hope in my heart.

Again, I would love to see us and Pel flourish here but to have any kinds of foresight you have to see something in the distance and as of right now, I don't see very many positives. And taking humility into consideration, my binoculars could also be crap.

Im really tired of all the negative comparisons of Pel's recruiting class to Petrino's...Pel's current Freshman class was rated #11 by ESPN-Petrino's is rated #20...We are excited about our football class based on our past mediocrity, but our current football class is mid SEC ranked & you'd think we were right behind LSU, ALABAMA & FLORIDA but we are not even close.  Those 3 schools had 9-10 ESPN150 rated players & we had one(because he is from our home state)...Point is the comparison's being made between the two are unfair & borderline ridiculous...That being said I can't wait for both programs to be perennial Top 10 programs & I think we are headed in the right direction in both but neither will happen overnight, no matter how bad we want it to! 

[heathtits]

I can read just fine, smart guy. Maybe make clear statements if that's not what you meant, because that IS what it sounds like you're implying.

"Well if that's all you expect from a coach, then I guess that is $750,000 put to good use.I expect much much more, especially for that kind of skrilla. Also Beverley cheated under Pel's tenure. If that doesn't illustrate the respect level, then I guess you can continue being content with putting everything on a college kid."

That is exactly what I said. How is that not clear?

It says and relates absolutely NOTHING to Pel making or even anything about  Patrick staying or leaving. Your pulled that out of thin air.

I did say something about the cheating, but didn't come close to saying Pel is to "blame" or that he is responsible. I said because of his influence, respect for the program or lack thereof is partially up to the coach.

That Cristal enough for ya? (spelling is a joke to prevent confusion)

[Swine & Cheese Club]

Im really tired of all the negative comparisons of Pel's recruiting class to Petrino's...Pel's current Freshman class was rated #11 by ESPN-Petrino's is rated #20...We are excited about our football class based on our past mediocrity, but our current football class is mid SEC ranked & you'd think we were right behind LSU, ALABAMA & FLORIDA but we are not even close.  Those 3 schools had 9-10 ESPN150 rated players & we had one(because he is from our home state)...Point is the comparison's being made between the two are unfair & borderline ridiculous...That being said I can't wait for both programs to be perennial Top 10 programs & I think we are headed in the right direction in both but neither will happen overnight, no matter how bad we want it to! 

+1  Good post.

Apples to Oranges.  Petrino and Co. recruit well and I love the class we brought in last year and this year but to compare the two sports IS ridiculous.  Regardless of the mud slinging going on, Petrino is an established ex-NFL and college coach and his name carries weight in the football realm.  Pelphrey has coached at one other D1 school prior to Arkansas and still hasn't established himself in the basketball realm.  IMO, pulling in a #11 rated class is pretty dang good.  Give the man time to show he can bring in the big boys.

[heathtits]

+1  Good post.

Apples to Oranges.  Petrino and Co. recruit well and I love the class we brought in last year and this year but to compare the two sports IS ridiculous.  Regardless of the mud slinging going on, Petrino is an established ex-NFL and college coach and his name carries weight in the football realm.  Pelphrey has coached at one other D1 school prior to Arkansas and still hasn't established himself in the basketball realm.  IMO, pulling in a #11 rated class is pretty dang good.  Give the man time to show he can bring in the big boys.

I love how people throw out that run of the mill phrase "Apples to Oranges" and then don't do anything to explain how it is SOO utterly unrelated. I also love how people continue to talk about last years class and NEVER mention this years class which is OFFICIAL. We may get one more late signing if we can beat out Nebraska, Virginia and other powerhouse programs for the 6-5  rising stock guy.

John Pelphrey has taken two teams to the NCAA postseason and won one of those. He was a star on a legendary KY team. He is a Donovan understudy. He's a young coach with an attractive system. How does his name not carry weight in the bball world? Why are other first and second year coaches who come from small schools able to pull in higher rated recruits?

And whoever talked about us being mid level in the SEC in football, that only further proves my point in Basketball because we were 8th last time I checked.

[chiefsfan]

Not at all. Where did I write that? But if you're saying a mentor worth $750,000 a year should not be accountable whatsoever for his players actions, well I'm in the wrong business I guess.

As I said in another thread, if the players don't respect what the coaches are about, I fear the worst.

Im pretty sure for the most part they respect what the coaches say.  there might be a glaring problem, but that also came from someone that pelphrey most likely didnt recruit

We've already seen that he is quick to punish those who did screw up

[Swine & Cheese Club]

I love how people throw out that run of the mill phrase "Apples to Oranges" and then don't do anything to explain how it is SOO utterly unrelated. I also love how people continue to talk about last years class and NEVER mention this years class which is OFFICIAL. We may get one more late signing if we can beat out Nebraska, Virginia and other powerhouse programs for the 6-5  rising stock guy.

John Pelphrey has taken two teams to the NCAA postseason and won one of those. He was a star on a legendary KY team. He is a Donovan understudy. He's a young coach with an attractive system. How does his name not carry weight in the bball world? Why are other first and second year coaches who come from small schools able to pull in higher rated recruits?

And whoever talked about us being mid level in the SEC in football, that only further proves my point in Basketball because we were 8th last time I checked.

Who are these first and second year coaches you speak of?  Don't give me Capel either because he fell into an AA lottery pick.

Actually we will get 2 signings this Spring.  The class is not OFFICIAL yet.  Powell and Farmer will add size and scoring that we need.

[tweakmyhamstrings]

THis probably isn't the most appropriate time or the place but I would like to point out that I was the 1st, not one of the 1st, but actually NUMERO UNO to call for Pelphrey's head, just minutes after the news was leaked that he was hired.  Now everyone is getting on board the ole' TWEAKWAGON.  Well, all aboard!!!!  Not that anyone's keeping score.

[cosmodrum]

"Well if that's all you expect from a coach, then I guess that is $750,000 put to good use.I expect much much more, especially for that kind of skrilla. Also Beverley cheated under Pel's tenure. If that doesn't illustrate the respect level, then I guess you can continue being content with putting everything on a college kid."

That is exactly what I said. How is that not clear?

It says and relates absolutely NOTHING to Pel making or even anything about  Patrick staying or leaving. Your pulled that out of thin air.

I did say something about the cheating, but didn't come close to saying Pel is to "blame" or that he is responsible. I said because of his influence, respect for the program or lack thereof is partially up to the coach.

That Cristal enough for ya? (spelling is a joke to prevent confusion)

I didn't pull anything out of thin air. HoopS said he doesn't know what Pel could've done regarding Beverley leaving. And you responded by saying you expect much more out of a coach making that "kind of skrilla." So that lead me to believe that you meant for $750k, we should've expected Pel to get Patrick to stay. And you mentioning that because Beverley cheated under Pel's tenure insinuates that Pel is, at least in part, to blame for the cheating because he didn't command any respect from Beverley for the program. Perhaps the professor is partly to blame as well, because apparently Beverley didn't respect the professor's classroom, or the code of ethics outlined in the UA student handbook, at most likely in the professor's syllabus.

And based on what I've heard from Pelphrey, he highly respects our program, and undoubtedly expects that from the players, as well. When they don't, they don't wear a Razorback jersey.

Is that Moet enough for you? (I can be a smartass, too  )

[heathtits]

I didn't pull anything out of thin air. HoopS said he doesn't know what Pel could've done regarding Beverley leaving. And you responded by saying you expect much more out of a coach making that "kind of skrilla." So that lead me to believe that you meant for $750k, we should've expected Pel to get Patrick to stay. And you mentioning that because Beverley cheated under Pel's tenure insinuates that Pel is, at least in part, to blame for the cheating because he didn't command any respect from Beverley for the program. Perhaps the professor is partly to blame as well, because apparently Beverley didn't respect the professor's classroom, or the code of ethics outlined in the UA student handbook, at most likely in the professor's syllabus.

And based on what I've heard from Pelphrey, he highly respects our program, and undoubtedly expects that from the players, as well. When they don't, they don't wear a Razorback jersey.

Is that Moet enough for you? (I can be a smartass, too  )

I see your point. What I quoted from that, the poster said something about him "leaving" and "doing what he did". I was only talking about the cheating and getting kicked out of the University, not his decision to leave for Czechoslovakia.

I obviously didn't make that clear, so your insinuations were warranted, but I do stand behind my feeling that the coach is not blameless in off the court issues, even if it's not "his" recruit.

Moet haha? Cheeky that.

[donewithdale]

Only 1/2 the SEC to go.  Can't wait to see the threads continue to deteriorate with each loss.

[cosmodrum]

THis probably isn't the most appropriate time or the place but I would like to point out that I was the 1st, not one of the 1st, but actually NUMERO UNO to call for Pelphrey's head, just minutes after the news was leaked that he was hired.  Now everyone is getting on board the ole' TWEAKWAGON.  Well, all aboard!!!!  Not that anyone's keeping score.

That bandwagon's missing a wheel.

[cosmodrum]

I see your point. What I quoted from that, the poster said something about him "leaving" and "doing what he did". I was only talking about the cheating and getting kicked out of the University, not his decision to leave for Czechoslovakia.

I obviously didn't make that clear, so your insinuations were warranted, but I do stand behind my feeling that the coach is not blameless in off the court issues, even if it's not "his" recruit.

Moet haha? Cheeky that.

I agree with you on that. The coach does bear some responsibility, but so far, I think Pel has lived up to his part of the bargain. Matter of opinion, I suppose.

[311Hog]

I love how people throw out that run of the mill phrase "Apples to Oranges" and then don't do anything to explain how it is SOO utterly unrelated. I also love how people continue to talk about last years class and NEVER mention this years class which is OFFICIAL. We may get one more late signing if we can beat out Nebraska, Virginia and other powerhouse programs for the 6-5  rising stock guy.

John Pelphrey has taken two teams to the NCAA postseason and won one of those. He was a star on a legendary KY team. He is a Donovan understudy. He's a young coach with an attractive system. How does his name not carry weight in the bball world? Why are other first and second year coaches who come from small schools able to pull in higher rated recruits?

And whoever talked about us being mid level in the SEC in football, that only further proves my point in Basketball because we were 8th last time I checked.

You just made my point for me.

Given what you just listed about John Pelphrey the coach and the player HOW can he NOT have the respect of any sane basketball player or fan?

If you cant respect the man for what he has done or what he stands for then i personally question what exactly can you respect?

Also it IS an apples to oranges comparison between basketball and football.

In football you are able to absorb "busts" alot easier then in basketball.

In basketball you sign 5 players expecting/ NEEDING all 5 to come in and contribute right away if even one of those 5 are total busts your season is in the toliet.

That just isnt the case with football.

[heathtits]

Only 1/2 the SEC to go.  Can't wait to see the threads continue to deteriorate with each loss.

And Arkansas Basketball back into its rightful home the past 10 years. Complete Irrelevance! Can I get a "Freak Yeah!" on that one?

[athunt]

So if we cant hold our coach accountable for being outcoached or losing games at home, or we cant hold him accountable for recruiting Men instead of boys or getting players to buy into his system, then what can we hold him accountable for?

[heathtits]

So if we cant hold our coach accountable for being outcoached or losing games at home, or we cant hold him accountable for recruiting Men instead of boys or getting players to buy into his system, then what can we hold him accountable for?

Player development, or lack thereof.

[donewithdale]

And Arkansas Basketball back into its rightful home the past 10 years. Complete Irrelevance! Can I get a "Freak Yeah!" on that one?

And nothing is going to change this season.  I don't get why there was so much more uproar over 1-7 than there was for 1-6.  We aren't going to win too many more games.  Are those of you getting upset and writing and supporting these "I can't believe the Administration is satisfied with this" threads actually expecting it to get better this season and you actually are becoming more disappointed with each loss? 

I'm not arguing against most of this groups points. I'm just not sure why the bitterness and anger is getting so much worse.  We are going to end up around 3-13 or so.  Let that sink in and get it out now. 

[cosmodrum]

So if we cant hold our coach accountable for being outcoached or losing games at home, or we cant hold him accountable for recruiting Men instead of boys or getting players to buy into his system, then what can we hold him accountable for?

Did someone say we can't hold him accountable for those things?

[athunt]

I believe requesting him to be held accountable is what lead to the birth of this thread and probably 20 others

[donewithdale]

I believe requesting him to be held accountable is what lead to the birth of this thread and probably 20 others

So how do you old him accountable?  Threaten his job security?  Complain about what is going on?

[311Hog]

So if we cant hold our coach accountable for being outcoached or losing games at home, or we cant hold him accountable for recruiting Men instead of boys or getting players to buy into his system, then what can we hold him accountable for?

You dont have any idea of weather or not he was "out coached" he/the team simply lost some games. That is all you or anyone else knows.

And there are a myriad of reasons why the games were lost.  Not a single person has "requested" anything all i see are people E-raging and looking for someone to take the blame to appease their frustration.

[seb2000]

Hog Basketball fans.


Please stop making stupid posts calling for Pel's job.  It is making the whole fan base look like fools not to mention yourselves.

I realize you want to win we all do, but please stop being so unholy unreasonable as to think in his SECOND SEASON, after totally rebuilding the line up from top to bottom that we would see anything other then what we are seeing now.

We are still above .500 he is doing just fine.  Is the SEC season going poorly ? of course it is, but for goodness sake i have never seen such hysteria in my life. Some of you actually worry me.

+111111

Agreed!

[rude1]

Arkansas fans arent exactly known for patience.   Houston Nutt drove any patience the fan base has out the window, through the barn, and buried it 6 feet under ground

I disagree with that, this basketball fan base has been very patient. Go back to when Heath came, the fans showed up in numbers knowing the product on the floor was going to be terrible. I even criticized many for being too patient with Heath, when I began to recognize that the program wasn't making the strides to become a contender again. He was given 5 seasons, and in the end all he could come up with was teams that had to streak at the end of the season to play themselves on the bubble, only to be eliminated in the first round of the NCAA tourney. Though he improved the program, it wasn't good enough, so in comes Pel. He has a team that is 1-7 in the number 6 conference in the nation, youth doesn't explain a team being that bad on the road and at home. What you have here is a fan base that is being worn out with always the promise of tomorrow, a fan base that is looking for a reason to believe, and for one week Pel supplied that, only to follow that up with horrible losses at home to average to bad teams. It boggles my mind how some think we should be getting blasted at home to the likes of an Auburn team because we are "young".

[donewithdale]

I disagree with that, this basketball fan base has been very patient. Go back to when Heath came, the fans showed up in numbers knowing the product on the floor was going to be terrible. I even criticized many for being too patient with Heath, when I began to recognize that the program wasn't making the strides to become a contender again. He was given 5 seasons, and in the end all he could come up with was teams that had to streak at the end of the season to play themselves on the bubble, only to be eliminated in the first round of the NCAA tourney. Though he improved the program, it wasn't good enough, so in comes Pel. He has a team that is 1-7 in the number 6 conference in the nation, youth doesn't explain a team being that bad on the road and at home. What you have here is a fan base that is being worn out with always the promise of tomorrow, a fan base that is looking for a reason to believe, and for one week Pel supplied that, only to follow that up with horrible losses at home to average to bad teams. It boggles my mind how some think we should be getting blasted at home to the likes of an Auburn team because we are "young".

Many of our fans turned on Heath in season 3 and the majority turned after Bucknell.  Heath also had to deal with the bitter Nolan supporters.  And we aren't getting blasted because we are young although that does play a small part at times.  We are getting blasted because we are physically inferior to the rest of the conference and we are missing some major skills at a few positions.  They aren't excuses.  Those are reasons. 

[Dirty]

While it's laughable to call for a coach's head two years in, there's nothing laughable about being the absolute worst team in the pathetic SEC. Anybody that thinks we just have an experience problem has their head in the sand.

DEPTH! Lack there of.

[rude1]

Many of our fans turned on Heath in season 3 and the majority turned after Bucknell.  Heath also had to deal with the bitter Nolan supporters.  And we aren't getting blasted because we are young although that does play a small part at times.  We are getting blasted because we are physically inferior to the rest of the conference and we are missing some major skills at a few positions.  They aren't excuses.  Those are reasons.   

Then when do those shortcomings get addressed? This is the issue. When I look at what he landed in this next class, I don't see an upgrade for the program. I see more players cut from the role player model. To improve the program you must steadily bring in better players, and I don't see that happening, so I must question his ability to do so.

[thirtythree]

Look out.....common sense alert!!!! Dude, you'll get flamed by the homers, but you are absolutely right. The sky is not falling because we are talking about sports and in the grand scheme of things....it doesn't matter. However, anyone that thinks John Pelphrey can get this program back to the Nolan status is dillusional.....This team is short on talent to be sure, but that's not what's alarming. The alraming thing is that we get worse....or stay exactly where we are.....each and every game. We're no younger than Mississippi State and just look at the difference. It's pathetic.

Where's your crystal ball at? We might as well just pack it in folks. He has seen into the future. You haven't won the lottery yet?

You honestly don't expect a team to be turned around in one season do you? If he can't do it after 3 seasons "with his players" then there will have to be some discussion about change. Not until then.

[donewithdale]

The shortcomings have not been totally addressed yet and may not be in the late signing period.  Pel's 2010 class will be the most important in his career.  But nothing is going to change on the court this season. 

[Swine & Cheese Club]

Then when do those shortcomings get addressed? This is the issue. When I look at what he landed in this next class, I don't see an upgrade for the program. I see more players cut from the role player model. To improve the program you must steadily bring in better players, and I don't see that happening, so I must question his ability to do so.

If you don't see him addressing needs for this ball team then you don't see the whole picture.  Powell and Farmer are quality players and will add depth to what we have already here.  Borden hasn't been playing as long but 7' and 230 lbs will give us more presence in the paint.  Adams (if we get him) will add quality depth too.  The studs are coming in the next couple of classes after this.

[rude1]

If you don't see him addressing needs for this ball team then you don't see the whole picture.  Powell and Farmer are quality players and will add depth to what we have already here.  Borden hasn't been playing as long but 7' and 230 lbs will give us more presence in the paint.  Adams (if we get him) will add quality depth too.  The studs are coming in the next couple of classes after this.

You are WAY over selling these recruits he has coming in, none are top fifty and only Powell will be found in the top 100.  What is going to happen in the next couple of years after this that should make us believe that studs will be coming in?  You don't magically wake up and become a good recruiter.

[Swine & Cheese Club]

You are WAY over selling these recruits he has coming in, none are top fifty and only Powell will be found in the top 100.  What is going to happen in the next couple of years after this that should make us believe that studs will be coming in?  You don't magically wake up and become a good recruiter.

You are WAY underselling these recruits coming in.  Powell is just outside the top 50 (56 I think).  Farmer (6'5") averages over 24 points a game in JUCO not HS ball.  Borden is 7' 230 lbs.  Who doesn't like a 7 footer?

Have you seen the Arkansas kids coming up in the next couple of years?  Multiple 4* players in 2010 and 2011.  Just because we missed on Gulley and AJ Walton doesn't mean we lose out on these.  I'm optimistic that who we have coming in will help us to start winning next year which will peak interest from better players.

[touchdownark]

Hog Basketball fans.


Please stop making stupid posts calling for Pel's job.  It is making the whole fan base look like fools not to mention yourselves.

I realize you want to win we all do, but please stop being so unholy unreasonable as to think in his SECOND SEASON, after totally rebuilding the line up from top to bottom that we would see anything other then what we are seeing now.

We are still above .500 he is doing just fine.  Is the SEC season going poorly ? of course it is, but for goodness sake i have never seen such hysteria in my life. Some of you actually worry me.

amen