Welcome to Hogville!      Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Annual conference expansion talks heat up - Big 12, SEC adding teams?

Started by WizardofhOgZ, May 05, 2012, 04:03:44 pm

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

elvis26

 ;D no-car and vir-tech are definitely the top targets for slive!! if slive can strike a deal with these 2 great schools it will be a great day for the sec!!

texas tush hog

Quote from: elvis26 on August 17, 2012, 11:49:35 pm
;D no-car and vir-tech are definitely the top targets for slive!! if slive can strike a deal with these 2 great schools it will be a great day for the sec!!

Those are the current targets and Slive is apparently circling overhead, ready to pounce, as soon as the Big XII takes their prey from the ACC (namely FSU and Clemson}. Slive apparently has his deal in his hip pocket, just does not want to be seen as a corporate raider, so the Big XII gets to move first. The ACC is struggling for survival now, much like the Big XII was this time last year. The ACC will have to partner with the Big East in some fashion to survive IMHO.

 

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: BenDial on August 16, 2012, 06:18:36 pm
One bad team does not hurt TV contracts. We still keep rolling with Vandy.

And even if we did lose some money in football, it would be miniscule and our basketball TV money would be ridonkulous if we added UNC and Duke....ESPN would be out the wazoo to get the contract that had UNC vs. Duke, Duke vs. Kentucky, Kentucky vs. UNC, UNC vs. Florida, Florida vs. Duke, Florida vs. Kentucky, etc. etc....add in Arkansas and Mizzou and Vandy and Tenner...yeah, that basketball contract would make up any difference easily.

I doubt it. Besides then we would have two traditionally bad football teams. Quit worrying about how basketball would fit into things related to the conference expansion equation. I'd bet money right now that Vandy would not even be considered for SEC expansion if they were not already members from way back when. Nobody can name ONE small private school that has been realistically mentioned for expansion inclusion by any major conference.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

dooley

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on August 18, 2012, 08:57:50 am
I doubt it. Besides then we would have two traditionally bad football teams. Quit worrying about how basketball would fit into things related to the conference expansion equation. I'd bet money right now that Vandy would not even be considered for SEC expansion if they were not already members from way back when. Nobody can name ONE small private school that has been realistically mentioned for expansion inclusion by any major conference.

Right, it's about base population and fan base for the SEC right now.  Duke doesn't have it.  Besides, football is calling the shots.  Despite the UNC fans' love for all things basketball, their football revenue is still greater than their basketball revenue.

Murr

Quote from: KnilesKankle on August 17, 2012, 07:52:05 pm
I would have been more than happy with OSU and OU sitting in a division with us and AM.  I imagine CBS would have been more than happy with having the OU national following as well.
CBS would be happy, but we would be doubling down on a state that has slightly more household TVs than Arkansas.  Not good if you want to build a large footprint for your Network.  If we want OU, wait until the situation is right.

Speaking of the network, I found these two sites and put together a list of current SEC states and their number of TV households:
http://www.tvb.org/media/file/Cable_UEs_by_State.pdf
http://www.sportstvjobs.com/resources/local-tv-market-sizes-dma.html

Numbered teams are obviously states with SEC schools and I put other possible or semi-possible teams/states in there in italics.

1) Texas................8,879,650
Rutgers                      3-10M depending on calculations
2) Florida...............7,409,990
North Carolina         3,749,710
3) Georgia..............3,648,480
Virginia Tech           3,323,530
4) Tennessee..........2,533,250
5) Missouri              2,385,890
Maryland................2,147,610
6) Alabama             1,889,630
7) South Carolina.....1,819,270
8)Kentucky             1,750,030
9) Louisiana............1,701,900
Oklahoma               1,452,580
10) Arkansas...........1,141,370
11) Mississippi         1,110,110
Kansas...................1,098,600
West Virginia              760,290


*Virginia Tech included 3,061,170 VA and 262,360 DC households

*Maryland did not include DC TV HH # because adding them didn't move them in rankings.

*Rutgers had a New Jersey TV HH # of 3,174,510 and NYC market (from the second link) had a TV HH # of 7,387,810.  So they could range anywhere from number one to number six on this very general list.

dooley

Good job, Murr +1.  That shows exactly why VA and NC are have to haves.

online-with-swine


elvis26

 ;D amen to that kniles!! i totally agree!! lets bring n0-car and vir-tech home to the sec where they truely belong!!

Hugo Bezdek

Quote from: dooley on August 18, 2012, 07:17:48 pm
Good job, Murr +1.  That shows exactly why VA and NC are have to haves.

Not only that but when you look at the forecasted growth in those states along with the current SEC states, the SEC is going to be well positioned to dominate for years to come. If the Big XII fails to add the southern schools FSU, Clemson, GT, etc. no one else will come close to the fanbase and recruiting base of the SEC.

Murr

Quote from: Hugo Bezdek on August 18, 2012, 09:25:04 pm
Not only that but when you look at the forecasted growth in those states along with the current SEC states, the SEC is going to be well positioned to dominate for years to come. If the Big XII fails to add the southern schools FSU, Clemson, GT, etc. no one else will come close to the fanbase and recruiting base of the SEC.

Hmmm.
Here's an odd conversation from today:
QuoteThe Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
Pending the right numbers for B12 CCG it looks like its FSU and Louisville.

Todd Smith ‏@meglasdad
@theDudeofWV Louisville? Really? That's the best they can do?

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
@meglasdad With Clemson out & GT not willing the ACC options are not that great. Louisville is a sold #12. Helps with hoops more than CU.

Todd Smith ‏@meglasdad
@theDudeofWV Was Clemson situation change of heart on their part or Big XII's?

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
@meglasdad CU was ready to move but got the yellow light from B12 when GT became interested. CU didn't take kindly to that & declined.

Todd Smith ‏@meglasdad
@theDudeofWV Is it me or does the Big XII seem to like to use that yellow light a lot?

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
@meglasdad Yeap... PTSD I think.

Todd Smith ‏@meglasdad
@theDudeofWV Sometimes I wonder if the Big XII isn't just the Big East on massive doses of steroids.

Other dude quotes from twitter:
Quote
Big 12 TV contract will be about $23 million per year.

$22.5 to $22.8 with incentives to reach near $30 million. 13 year GoR is required by tV partners.

incentives are based on number of primetime T1 & T2 appearances. The more on natl. TV during primetime the more $ the contract is worth.

The tv dollars do not include the $60 million signing bonus. That's extra.

That signing bonus money is rumored to help the Big 12 pay for exit fees for expansion candidates. Also, read a little while back that if FSU and CU where added they would increase the pot by about 20%.  This stuff is fluid.

As always, take it for what it's worth.


Hugo Bezdek

Quote from: Murr on August 19, 2012, 08:06:34 pm
Hmmm.
Here's an odd conversation from today:

Todd Smith ‏@meglasdad
@theDudeofWV Sometimes I wonder if the Big XII isn't just the Big East on massive doses of steroids.



The disfunction of the Big XII didn't suddenly go away. It still amazes me that we're talking about the Big XII raiding the ACC. Swofford's inability to cash in on the programs and markets within the ACC is an amazing failure of leadership. The ACC has more than double the population base of the Big XII and current members have historically won more national titles than the current members of the Big XII.

That said, FSU jumping ship along with the Big East member Louisville is far from an ACC collapse. It will be interesting to see if anyone else jumps. If Slive was counting on chaos to force UNC to make a move I'm not sure this would qualify. Would the SEC take #15 (presumably VT) without #16 ready to go?

online-with-swine

If the ACC lost FSU and VTech then others would be more than willing to listen and potentially jump ship.

Hugo Bezdek

Quote from: KnilesKankle on August 19, 2012, 10:01:56 pm
If the ACC lost FSU and VTech then others would be more than willing to listen and potentially jump ship.

I would think so but Clemson and GT's supposed cold feet make me wonder. Inertia is hard to overcome sometimes and UNC is going to have hard time walking away from the ACC if there's still a viable conference intact.

 

Murr

If the ACC lost FSU and VT and Lville joined the Big 12, then the ACC has zero quality football options to replace them with.  Notre Dame only wants a scheduling agreement.  If the SEC started flirting with NC State, UNC would have to think real hard about it's future.

dooley

Quote from: KnilesKankle on August 19, 2012, 10:01:56 pm
If the ACC lost FSU and VTech then others would be more than willing to listen and potentially jump ship.

I don't think VT would jump unless the ACC was going down, and I don't see losing FSU as a death knell for the ACC.  There was an ACC before FSU and VT and even Miami were members after all.  It will take something dramatic.

online-with-swine

If FSU jumps one has to wonder what their(the ACC) tv revenue would look like.  I don't see the networks being too happy with that considering football drives the ratings and revenue. 

FSU could be the first dominoe.  They leave and it ends up being a high stakes game of musical chairs.  Clemson, GT and Maryland start looking around to jump to a more stable conference b/f they get left out. 

psooie

If the big 12 can land FSU and haven't they are the most incompetent organization around. More likely, the dude is full of it. The SEC does want in Virginia and North Carolina but not sure any ACC school in those states want in the sec. THere is always the East Carolina option, pair them with Flordia state to get to 16 so you bring in a name school and new market school. An unexpected school to watch for on sec expansion might be Maryland. They bring a huge, rich market and have no political problems leaving the acc.

dooley

Quote from: psooie on August 20, 2012, 08:21:52 am
If the big 12 can land FSU and haven't they are the most incompetent organization around. More likely, the dude is full of it. The SEC does want in Virginia and North Carolina but not sure any ACC school in those states want in the sec. THere is always the East Carolina option, pair them with Flordia state to get to 16 so you bring in a name school and new market school. An unexpected school to watch for on sec expansion might be Maryland. They bring a huge, rich market and have no political problems leaving the acc.

Is the Big 12 incompetent?  Yes.

Is the Dude full of it?  Most likely.

Are we going to take ECU and FSU?  No.

Don't count the B1G out of this, either.  If they are smart, they will have something to say about what happens with the ACC.  If not, they are shut-out.

Hugo Bezdek

Quote from: dooley on August 20, 2012, 08:28:21 am
Is the Big 12 incompetent?  Yes.

Is the Dude full of it?  Most likely.

Are we going to take ECU and FSU?  No.

Don't count the B1G out of this, either.  If they are smart, they will have something to say about what happens with the ACC.  If not, they are shut-out.

B1G has a dilemna. They want to expand their footprint into the east coast but there are no "big fish" of the Penn State/Nebraska magnitude that are also AAU affiliated. Anyone they can add will be seen as diluting their league at a time when they're already trying to play catch-up with the SEC.

texas tush hog

Quote from: dooley on August 20, 2012, 08:28:21 am
Is the Big 12 incompetent?  Yes.

Is the Dude full of it?  Most likely.

Are we going to take ECU and FSU?  No.

Don't count the B1G out of this, either.  If they are smart, they will have something to say about what happens with the ACC.  If not, they are shut-out.


Yes. the Big XII is incompetent, nothing new there.

Everybody gives the Dude way too much credit.

The SEC will never take East Carolina or Duke and probably not NC State.

Better watch the B1G, they are sneaky.


FSU is Big XII bound and don't count out Clemson, Ga Tech or Maryland. Louisville is more than likely a teasip attempt at manipulation, for whatever reason escapes me but they are not a solid get, no more than Cincinatti would be.

dooley

Quote from: texas tush hog on August 20, 2012, 10:13:17 am

Yes. the Big XII is incompetent, nothing new there.

Everybody gives the Dude way too much credit.

The SEC will never take East Carolina or Duke and probably not NC State.

Better watch the B1G, they are sneaky.


FSU is Big XII bound and don't count out Clemson, Ga Tech or Maryland. Louisville is more than likely a teasip attempt at manipulation, for whatever reason escapes me but they are not a solid get, no more than Cincinatti would be.

FSU, Clemson, and GA Tech leaving might destabilize the ACC enough for VT to bolt.  I get the feeling VT doesn't want to be one of the instigators after they threw a fit to get in a few years back.

The Under Armor guy wants to make Maryland a player in football, too, and that means bolting from the ACC.  If the B1G doesn't go for Maryland, they've painted themselves into corner after the SEC took Mizzou and cut the B1G out of the STL and KC markets.  They should have taken Mizzou when they had the chance.

texas tush hog

Not sure how long it will take, but several exits from the ACC is on the horizon, once they begin, implosion is imminent.

online-with-swine

One of the posters on the WV board stated that VT ws the first choice of the SEC when Mizzou got the nod.  They said that the VT AD wanted to jump but Beamer was adamant about staying in the ACC.  True?  Who knows?  But, if true then they may be more willing than not at this time.

Murr

Quote from: KnilesKankle on August 20, 2012, 02:42:54 pm
One of the posters on the WV board stated that VT ws the first choice of the SEC when Mizzou got the nod.  They said that the VT AD wanted to jump but Beamer was adamant about staying in the ACC.  True?  Who knows?  But, if true then they may be more willing than not at this time.

I also remember reading that the SEC talked to UNC and they declined, declined for NC State and recommended ECU to us. lol

I've always thought that a school needs atleast one year of serious homework prior to making a move to another conference.  I don't think any of the ACC schools were in a position to make an informed decision at the time the SEC came knocking.  Texas A&M was looking east when Texas and the PAC were thinking about going to 16.  A year later, A&M moved.  Mizzou eventually followed, but they had be trying to exit the Big 12 even longer, so they had their ducks in a row with enough info to make that decision (also, thinking they could be stuck in the Big East or Mountain West made that move very easy for them).

 

Murr

Here's the Dude's full update from last night via twitter:
Quote

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
TV Network (ESPN) not willing to give B12 the value for the addition of FSU the B12's valuation says they should.

It comes down to the money the B12 would receive from the CCG. Will expansion pay enough to justify any additions.

According to sources at WVU FSU has made the decision to leave the ACC if the Big 12 offers.

The Big 12 and FSU have been engaged in formal talks for at least the last 4 weeks.

Louisville, was the last candidate standing for #12.

I realize that many who know the FSU program think it unlikely that FSU would move without a partner from the ACC.

Yet it was made clear to me that FSU has made the decision to leave the ACC regardless of who was selected for #12.

The has been a deterioration of the relationship between FSU & the ACC that began 2 years ago.

FSU was unhappy with the leadership of the ACC and the conferences failure to position itself in a football dominated landscape.

FSU is concerned about the commitment of the majority of ACC schools to football & the impact that lack of commitment will have on revenues especially considering a 9 game conf. schedule & playoff shares.

FSU was also adamantly opposed to the ACC's offer to ND to bring the Irish into the league as a partial member.

FSU believes the deal offered ND wold not significantly improve the ACC's TV revenues & would actually reduce the shares of full members.

FSU was also upset that the ACC failed to consider their input in the ND offer and blatantly ignored FSU's advisements.

To summarize. The Big 12 is waiting on the numbers from CCG talks with potential sponsors before deciding to offer FSU & UL.

Both FSU & UL have made it clear to the Big 12 they both would accept membership in the Big 12 should the offer come.

That's all I have. I've waited over a week to confirm the information before sharing it.

@dsbland They need enough additional money to convince reluctant B12 schools to expand.

@MHver3 has been suggesting that ESPN is trying to get the Big 12 and ACC to raid the Big East in order to weaken that league which looks NBC bound. I included two LHN tweets so here are some highlights from the past several days or so:
Quote
MHver3 ‏@MHver3
ND wanted to bring 3 friends with them as Olympic only members. ACC balked.

Espn was pushing hard for the ACC to take the bait. Trying to destroy BE hoops.

Would you guys watch the Longhorn Network if it had 4-6 hours of WVU news, games, and highlights on it?

A regional version of the network is in the works. It's complicated.

Anyone ever hear the phrase "split the Internet in half"? If what I just heard is true...

There may be more disgruntled folks in the ACC than originally believed. Lots going on right now.

I find one school in particular to be entertaining especially after comments made by their AD in regards to Espn.

Big East about to raise a few eyebrows and secure a sizable west coast presence in the process. Expansion is not dead my friends....

Suppose something happens that makes the Big East "Raid-proof". Where does that leave the ACC when the pieces start moving?

The stronger the Big East can get, the better for the B12.

@TomKleeh BYU and Air Force to be exact. Air force would immediately become the leagues 3rd-4th biggest draw.

ESPN NOW TELLING THE BIG12 TO TAKE LOUISVILLE AND CINCINNATI. Good thing our leadership isn't their puppet. ESPN gonna try and gut em.

Oh wait, we can have USF instead of Cincy?? Thanks but no. ESPN trying to save Swofford.

I don't think ESPN is going to get their way in this. If the ACC snatches Uconn and Rutgers you think FSU and Clemson will be thrilled?

Other than these two sources, not much else to compare chatter to.

The two issues I see with the Big 12 being reluctant to expand is do the additions bring enough money and what will they agree on divisons/scheduling?  If that can be agreed upon, then we might see some action, if not, luckily football season starts in less than two weeks.

dooley

Quote from: Murr on August 21, 2012, 12:09:40 am
Here's the Dude's full update from last night via twitter:
@MHver3 has been suggesting that ESPN is trying to get the Big 12 and ACC to raid the Big East in order to weaken that league which looks NBC bound. I included two LHN tweets so here are some highlights from the past several days or so:
Other than these two sources, not much else to compare chatter to.

The two issues I see with the Big 12 being reluctant to expand is do the additions bring enough money and what will they agree on divisons/scheduling?  If that can be agreed upon, then we might see some action, if not, luckily football season starts in less than two weeks.

Thanks Murr.  Any league that takes Notre It's-Not-Our-Fault Dame as a non-football member with some kind of nebulous scheduling agreement and lets them keep their own network is a fool.  Sounds like the Big 12 has quit playing footsies with them, although I can't see the rank-and-file getting too excited about adding FSU and Louisville as opposed to FSU and another ACC member.

Murr

Quote from: dooley on August 21, 2012, 08:09:28 am
Thanks Murr.  Any league that takes Notre It's-Not-Our-Fault Dame as a non-football member with some kind of nebulous scheduling agreement and lets them keep their own network is a fool.  Sounds like the Big 12 has quit playing footsies with them, although I can't see the rank-and-file getting too excited about adding FSU and Louisville as opposed to FSU and another ACC member.
Agreed.

I'm thinking if the Big 12 can agree Lville is an acceptable addition with FSU, why not invite FSU in a long slow drawn out process (similar to SEC additions last summer) and see what other options comes a knocking.

psooie

don't make any sense for the big 12 to not accept FSU if they are willing to move so i don't believe FSU is willing to move otherwise they would be in the big 12.

dooley

Quote from: psooie on August 21, 2012, 10:09:04 am
don't make any sense for the big 12 to not accept FSU if they are willing to move so i don't believe FSU is willing to move otherwise they would be in the big 12.

See comments above about the Big 12 being incompetent.

I think the SEC should take FSU, but it's about markets for the SEC.  FSU doesn't add those, unfortunately.  And I say "unfortunately" because of all the teams out there not in the SEC FSU is the most SEC-like.

NaturalStateReb

If it happens, nothing's going to happen on the realignment front for a while.  Maybe until after football season. 

The part I don't get is the Big 12 "offering" FSU.  That's not how it works.  You may know that you're going to get accepted, but you don't get offered and then jump.  You have to decouple from your old conference and then apply for membership in the new one.  The wording just doesn't sound right to me.

I can see why Louisville is good for the Big 12.  First, they're basically willing to pay any price to get in.  Second, it helps bridge the geographical gap for WVU.  Third, it's planted on the border between SEC and B1G country.  Fourth, it's going to have an easier time bolting the Big East than ACC teams will have leaving Swofford & Co.

Louisville leaving the Big East just makes NBC Sports coverage even more of a dumpster fire than it already is.  Seems like an odd traveling mate for a major player like Florida State, though.

I think this round of moves is over until after the first of the year.
"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

texas tush hog

I, for the life of me, cannot understand the fascination with the University of Louisville over Clemson on the part of the Big XII. Clemson's death valley seats 80,301 and they average over 77,000 as a rule. Papajohn stadium on the other hand seats 55,000 and they are lucky to average 50,000. Things just do not add up. Sounds like the teasips are trying a fly in the ointment type of deal. Both FSU and Clemson would regularly kick some teasip arse so that could be part of it but I suspect some other teasip chicanery that they are known for. I figure they are making another power play for their Longhorn network but not sure what at this juncture. That is what is holding up expansion at this point.I have got to think Slive will only wait so long before he gets fed up with it and jumps so the teasips better not provoke him.

Murr

That new Big East Commish has a lot of speculation floating around these days:
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2012/8/20/3256023/big-east-expansion-byu-air-force-football

Quote
Big East Expansion: Another Football Team Likely Coming
Aug 20 3:29p by Louis Bien
The Big East will "very likely" add another member to the conference within the next year, commissioner Mike Aresco told The Chris Vernon Show on Monday. The conference currently has eight members for the upcoming 2012 season, and will expand in 2013 with the additions of UCF, Houston, Memphis, SMU, Boise State, and San Diego State, plus Navy in 2015. Syracuse and Pittsburgh are leaving the conference in 2013 to join the ACC.
Among the potential candidates to latch onto the conference, BYU and Air Force have been the most heavily rumored to also join by 2015. With two more members, Big East football membership would expand to 14 teams, making it the largest conference in FBS division football.
BYU announced it would leave the Mountain West Conference in 2010 to become independent. The Cougars have long been rumored to be on their way to the Big East, but hit snags in negotiations over television rights. Air Force is currently a member of the Mountain West.
As for the Big 12,  I still think the holdup is divisions and money.  If ESPN is not willing to match the Big 12's evaluations or the Big 12 members can't agree on division format for a 12-team league, they won't expand.  If that's the case, UNC and VT probably won't leave the ACC unless they are just really mad at the TV deal.  If Slive could grab one of those two, then I say offer number sixteen to FSU and be done.   

elvis26

 ;D i believe the bigxii will evently work things out and expand. the sec will announce their next 2 teams by the end of the year. those 2 teams will join the sec in2014 when the sec network starts up. i believe those 2 teams will be no-car and vir-tech!!

Murr

Conflicting info today. 

@gswaim thinks Bowsly is hinting that the Big 12 will only take two "very special" institutions (ND and FSU) based on this very vague article:
http://thegazette.com/2012/08/21/bob-bowlsbys-blood-is-pumping-and-so-is-big-12s/


The BGN guys see things more as doom and gloom on the Big 12 expansion front with conference members less likely to extend invitations due to the added value divided by 12 members would not exceed what they are expected make divided by ten members.  And there is the scheduling/divisions problem.

josh_sec33

Meanwhile, New Orleans will join the Southland conference in 2013-2014. At least someone can make a decision around college athletics these days. ;)

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8289325/new-orleans-privateers-join-southland-conference-sources-say
Quote from: Hogstocking on February 07, 2008, 11:45:16 am
The 'fence' has been replaced by the Great Wall of China wrapped in barbed wire guarded by snipers. 

Quote from: Fayettechill14 on September 06, 2012, 05:43:24 pm
On a scale of "DGB is a Hog" to "Bobby had a girl on the back of that bike," how sure are you?

psooie

ND, FSU

the big 12 expansion folks are so full of it, it stinks. That's probably fine with the sec expansion PR machine since the sec wants to get its hands on some ACC school's not in its footprint. To get the ball rolling with those school's the sec needs another league to raid the acc. It could be the big 12 or big 10. I don't believe the north carolina or virginia school's want to leave the acc though as a first strike move so some other league needs to make a move, than the sec will target certain school's. More likely, the sec will need to settle for brining in FSU, strong national brand and than another new market school like WVU in a few years to get to 16. Or go with OKlahoma and OK state. The big 12 isn't as strong as they would like to pretend, haven't even signed GOR's, from espn:

The league still has some work to do to prove its stability. But Bowlsby said the Big 12 is in the "late stages" of solving the final issues with a lucrative new, multi-year TV contract. That, in turn, will allow the member institutions to officially sign a grant of media rights deal that would essentially make their commitment to each other iron-clad.

dooley

Quote from: Murr on August 21, 2012, 11:04:31 pm
Conflicting info today. 

@gswaim thinks Bowsly is hinting that the Big 12 will only take two "very special" institutions (ND and FSU) based on this very vague article:
http://thegazette.com/2012/08/21/bob-bowlsbys-blood-is-pumping-and-so-is-big-12s/


The BGN guys see things more as doom and gloom on the Big 12 expansion front with conference members less likely to extend invitations due to the added value divided by 12 members would not exceed what they are expected make divided by ten members.  And there is the scheduling/divisions problem.

Imagine that they aren't getting the valuation they claimed/expected.  What a surprise!

They're going to be waiting a long time on Notre Dame.

texas tush hog

Quote from: psooie on August 22, 2012, 08:33:40 am
ND, FSU

the big 12 expansion folks are so full of it, it stinks. That's probably fine with the sec expansion PR machine since the sec wants to get its hands on some ACC school's not in its footprint. To get the ball rolling with those school's the sec needs another league to raid the acc. It could be the big 12 or big 10. I don't believe the north carolina or virginia school's want to leave the acc though as a first strike move so some other league needs to make a move, than the sec will target certain school's. More likely, the sec will need to settle for brining in FSU, strong national brand and than another new market school like WVU in a few years to get to 16. Or go with OKlahoma and OK state. The big 12 isn't as strong as they would like to pretend, haven't even signed GOR's, from espn:

The league still has some work to do to prove its stability. But Bowlsby said the Big 12 is in the "late stages" of solving the final issues with a lucrative new, multi-year TV contract. That, in turn, will allow the member institutions to officially sign a grant of media rights deal that would essentially make their commitment to each other iron-clad.


Zero-U and Pokey State are not even factors in the SEC mix any longer and the FSU star is fading rapidly as far as the SEC goes. It does appear that FSU is center stage in the Big XII spotlight right now if the teasips give up their normal, but totally ridiculous posturing , but that is the teasip nature, they can't help themselves.

NaturalStateReb

Quote from: texas tush hog on August 21, 2012, 11:00:26 am
I, for the life of me, cannot understand the fascination with the University of Louisville over Clemson on the part of the Big XII. Clemson's death valley seats 80,301 and they average over 77,000 as a rule. Papajohn stadium on the other hand seats 55,000 and they are lucky to average 50,000. Things just do not add up. Sounds like the teasips are trying a fly in the ointment type of deal. Both FSU and Clemson would regularly kick some teasip arse so that could be part of it but I suspect some other teasip chicanery that they are known for. I figure they are making another power play for their Longhorn network but not sure what at this juncture. That is what is holding up expansion at this point.I have got to think Slive will only wait so long before he gets fed up with it and jumps so the teasips better not provoke him.

I thought it was Oklahoma that was pushing Louisville and Texas that was hesitant.  Something about some connection Boren at OU had to someone at Louisville. 

It's hard to tell.  It's like keeping up with a soap opera or professional wrestling.
"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

Dumb ole famrboy

Below is the most recent TV contract information I could find - dated 5/10/2012. There are 2 games of conference expansion being played at this time. The game between the actual college football conferences and a 2nd game between the TV Networks. If the ACC were to get picked apart as been suggested – ESPN would lose significant college sports program inventory to Fox. At most only 2 ACC members would land in the SEC while 6 to 8 of the remaining members would end up in the Big Ten and Big 12. ESPN only has Tier 1 rights for the Big Ten and Big 12 of which expire by July 2017. Don't be surprised if ESPN steps-up with more money to keep the ACC together.


BIG12
First-tier rights: ESPN, eight years through 2015-16
Second-tier rights: FOX, 13 years through 2024-25

PAC-12
First- and second-tier rights: ESPN/FOX, 12 years through 2023-24

SEC
First-tier rights: CBS, 15 years through 2023-24
Second-tier rights: ESPN, 15 years through 2023-24

BIG TEN
First-tier rights: ESPN, 10 years through 2016-17
Second-tier rights: Big Ten Network, 25 years through 2031-32
Select basketball rights (minimum of 24 games, men's tournament semifinal and championship games), CBS, six years through 2016-17
Football championship game: FOX, six years through 2016

ACC
First-, second- and third-tier rights: ESPN, 15 years through 2026-27

BIG EAST
First-tier rights: ESPN , six years for basketball through 2012-13; seven years for football through 2013-14
Second-tier rights: Basketball, CBS, six years through 2012-13

dooley

Quote from: NaturalStateReb on August 22, 2012, 10:59:17 am
I thought it was Oklahoma that was pushing Louisville and Texas that was hesitant.  Something about some connection Boren at OU had to someone at Louisville. 

It's hard to tell.  It's like keeping up with a soap opera or professional wrestling.

I saw all of this called a "soap opera for men."  I can go along with that.

Divot

Quote from: dooley on August 22, 2012, 12:47:42 pm
I saw all of this called a "soap opera for men."  I can go along with that.

At least it's more entertaining than TV soap operas.

Murr

A radio show in Orlando, Florida interviewed the new Big East Commissioner and tweeted these highlights(the website might have the audio for those interested):

Quote
the beat of sports ‏@thebeatofsports
[Big East Commissioner Mike] Aresco: "When time is right we will look at a 14th FB member and the natural names are out west in BYU & Air Force and others.

Aresco: "The Big East is very much a part of the Big 6 conferences despite what others say...where have a lot to offer to any TV partner."


From the Baylor Fans Forum: Is a Texahoma 3rd Tier Network in the works?
http://www.baylorfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242474&s=280241a5a8d512ab9f6e1fc3c2c05466

Quote
txlbbguy:
QuoteChris Level of Red Raider Sports reported on the radio today at noon that we should look for the announcements coming "very quickly" in regards to Tier 3 rights from Tech, OSU, TCU, and Baylor. TTU Athletic Director Kirby Holcutt even stated last week that he expects to make an announcement regarding Tier 3 programming very soon. Whatever route that these schools take, it looks like we will all know what direction it will be very shortly.

BearlyHere:
Quote
Are you thinking about these schools pooling their tier 3? Would they look to add KSU, ISU, & WVU? Or just keep Texoma for regional broadcast with a FSN Southwest and FSN OK.

txlbbguy:
QuoteNo, I don't think that is what he meant. I think what Chris Level was indicating was that all of the 4 schools listed have made arrangements to market their Tier 3 rights much the same was as OU has done with Fox Sports....and he expects them all to announce very quickly what agreements they have in place. Nothing was there to indicate they are doing something cooperatively...which certainly they could....I am guessing he was just saying they all have something in place for this upcoming year and they will all be announcing it soon. Probably some of the waiting is due to the ongoing TV contract for Tier 1 and 2 rights.


Murr

ESPN article from the Sports Bizz Mizz:
http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/63708/big-east-gets-serious-about-tv-efforts

Quote
Neal Pilson, former president of CBS Sports, is optimistic about the Big East's outlook.

"If the Big East schools hang together, I believe they can secure a new TV deal equal to or better than the last offer from ESPN, because the media competition for their rights will be intense," he said.

I wonder if the ACC football schools would abandon ship if they made less money from football than the Big East?  Hmmm.

dooley

Quote from: Murr on August 22, 2012, 06:55:45 pm
A radio show in Orlando, Florida interviewed the new Big East Commissioner and tweeted these highlights(the website might have the audio for those interested):



From the Baylor Fans Forum: Is a Texahoma 3rd Tier Network in the works?
http://www.baylorfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242474&s=280241a5a8d512ab9f6e1fc3c2c05466

BearlyHere:
txlbbguy:

A tier-three network comprised of Baylor, TTech, TCU, and OSU trash games and non-football sports.  Who in their right mind would watch that?

brewster37

Nothing new from the acc. I found it interested that a local news report on the top North Carolina kids choosing the sec over local schools saying top recruits are leaving the state and nc and nc state are concern that they are losing prospects because of their conference
The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese in the trap

texas tush hog

I guess I missed it some where along the way but reading an article about the Big XII/SEC champions game requires both teams to have a CCG, that means the Big XII will be required to expand to 12 teams before the 2014 season ,does it not?

http://leatherhelmetblog.com/2012-articles/july/sec-demands-big-12-expansion-by-2014.html

Murr

Quote from: dooley on August 23, 2012, 08:00:01 am
A tier-three network comprised of Baylor, TTech, TCU, and OSU trash games and non-football sports.  Who in their right mind would watch that?
No one outside of North Texas and Oklahoma would demand that channel.  I have not heard anything else about it.  Those schools might follow OU's lead and provide a regional Fox Sports station/channel a given amount of Tier 3 programming instead of trying to create a separate/new network that will have low national demand.


Quote from: brewster37 on August 25, 2012, 09:01:25 pm
Nothing new from the acc. I found it interested that a local news report on the top North Carolina kids choosing the sec over local schools saying top recruits are leaving the state and nc and nc state are concern that they are losing prospects because of their conference
Things seem to be cooling down of the expansion front as football season is about to start and I'm sure schools would rather have the focus on the games.  The Dude said FSU has gone silent for this reason and Clemson has been on lock down for a while now.

With ESPN about to enter into a 60-day exclusive negotiating window with the Big East that is expected to end without a new contract, I can understand the rumors of ESPN trying to convince the ACC and Big 12 to add more B.E. members in order to weaken that conference.  The only problem is neither is biting after seeing the evaluation the ACC got when they supposedly listened to ESPN and added Pitt and 'Cuse.  That is one of the reasons Bowlsby stated that he would only add schools that added significant value; Greg Swaim starting beating the Notre Dame/FSU drums while Clemson, Georgia Tech and possibly Louisville could add enough to the pot to keep everyone happy or maybe not.

Supposedly, the SEC requires the Big 12 to hold its own CCG by 2014 or risk losing the Champions Bowl.  Recently, the Big 12 thinks the NCAA would be willing to grant them the ability to have a CCG with only ten members, thus not requiring them to expand to the old norm of 12 and have to work out who plays in what division.  The schools currently like the round robin play and would like to keep it.  So if any expansion is to happen, then the two new additions must at least equal the current projected per school payout. Assuming the Big 12 gets the waiver to play a CCG with ten teams:

Conservative               Optimistic
$200M   TV(T1/2)           $230M
$_60M   Champs Bowl      $_80M
$_20M   CCG                  $_30M
$280M                           $340M
Or $28M/team                 or $34M/team

Since payouts for the Champs Bowl and CCG to the conference are not expected to rise with the addition of new members, the added value to the TV contracts required to keep the per team payouts the same with 12 members are:

$56M                                 $68M

That's just a basic projection.  I'm sure the official one includes all the other bowl game's earnings and other things.  Basically, it won't require a lot of value to add new members, but at what level will the payout have to be raised to convince Big 12 teams to expand that are worried about losing games in the state of Texas and other possible rivalries? 

Hugo Bezdek

Quote from: texas tush hog on August 26, 2012, 09:01:05 am
I guess I missed it some where along the way but reading an article about the Big XII/SEC champions game requires both teams to have a CCG, that means the Big XII will be required to expand to 12 teams before the 2014 season ,does it not?

http://leatherhelmetblog.com/2012-articles/july/sec-demands-big-12-expansion-by-2014.html

Yes and I think this news getting out is why Louisville is even in the discussion. If Clemson and/or GT are trying to negotiate better terms for a move, the Big XII just trots out Louisville and says we don't need you to get to 12.

texas tush hog

Quote from: Hugo Bezdek on August 26, 2012, 02:35:16 pm
Yes and I think this news getting out is why Louisville is even in the discussion. If Clemson and/or GT are trying to negotiate better terms for a move, the Big XII just trots out Louisville and says we don't need you to get to 12.


If the NCAA grants them a waiver to have a CCG with only ten teams then the teams that go to 16 can split up into 4 team divisions and play a divisional championship prior to the CCG and it would be hard for the NCAA to deny the request. I hope the Big XII tries this teasip ploy.