Do we have to have #1 Blue Chip players to have a good team????

[jkstock04]

Seems to me a lot of people put the blame on how we dont have the recruiting and theres not many D-1 prospects here in Arkansas.  My question is this..do all of our players/recruits HAVE to be elite players coming out of high school in order for us to be a good team???...Yes, it would be nice...But what about our coaching???  Shouldn't a good coach or a great coach be able to coach an average player into a great player?  Theres a lot of talk about Malzahn on this site...look at what he's done with his teams...was he always just a lucky guy and by some coincidence always managed to have the best players?  He did it at Shilo and now he's doing it at Springdale...did his players with awsome talent just fall into his lap mysteriously??  Hell no, he COACHED them to be the players they are...now, I do realize I'm using an example of a high school coach compared to college football.  But, it is still a good example of how great coaching will turn out great players....we need better assistant coaches just as bad as a new head coach in my opinion.   

[HawgWyld]

Shouldn't a good coach or a great coach be able to coach an average player into a great player?   

A coach must be able to do just that to be successful at Arkansas. Period.

And, you're absolutely right about Malzahn. He works those kids like dogs, and we see the results every week.

[Hardwork321]

THE THINK THAT GETS ME IS NUTT CAN NOT KEEP OUR GOOD PLAYERS IN STATE.

[jkstock04]

THE THINK THAT GETS ME IS NUTT CAN NOT KEEP OUR GOOD PLAYERS IN STATE.

Yes, and whats funny about that is that nobody ever mentions it, especially radio talk show hosts.

[hogsanity]

THE THINK THAT GETS ME IS NUTT CAN NOT KEEP OUR GOOD PLAYERS IN STATE.

Yea, Mcfadden, Hillis, Monk, Mj, Cobbs, Jeb, Fairchild, Andrews, etc.  Those guys are no good.  No state keeps all of the hs players.  And, most of the guys we have lost have gone on to be good, but not great players. 

Just who in particular are you referring to, Bret Smith and Slick Shelly?

[jkstock04]

Think he may have been referring to the players at Springdale who didn't commit to Arkansas...

[Hardwork321]

They talk about the recruiting base but he can not recruit the instate kids.  This is really hard to take since i was a child.  Then you talk about The NCAA!  Please!!  How do you lose A OL, TE, & WR from springdale.  They are right in his own back yard.  Sad!!!!!  He lost the kid out of Fort Smith last year.

THE THINK THAT GETS ME IS NUTT CAN NOT KEEP OUR GOOD PLAYERS IN STATE.

Yes, and whats funny about that is that nobody ever mentions it, especially radio talk show hosts.

[brooks74]

All those players have never played a down in college.  The only player who has left the state lately that has been a difference maker to some extent is Bret Smith at Tennessee, and he has been inconsistent. To answer the question, no you don't have to have all big time recruits, but you must have a few.

[Ark Blitz]

Interesting that Bo says we don't have a recruiting base in Ark but Tenn seems to be doing well with our in state players

[socalhogcaller]

I agree with you completely.  Top athletes are a must to be the best of the best, but we can't complete a pass for 20 yards.  MO St. can do that!  LA Monroe can do it!  Surely our athletes are as good as theirs.  It comes down to coaching.

[brooks74]

I think you have to get some top recruits, and we have.  Mustain, Andrews, McFadden, Jones, etc, etc.  It comes down to coaching, and it comes down to doing a good job at getting guys who fit your program.  Markuson is a genius at this with the O-line.  Taking guys that weren't highly recruited and making them great lineman.

[Hardwork321]

With a statement like this you must be a Texas fan!!

All those players have never played a down in college. The only player who has left the state lately that has been a difference maker to some extent is Bret Smith at Tennessee, and he has been inconsistent. To answer the question, no you don't have to have all big time recruits, but you must have a few.

[hogsanity]

They talk about the recruiting base but he can not recruit the instate kids. This is really hard to take since i was a child. Then you talk about The NCAA! Please!! How do you lose A OL, TE, & WR from springdale. They are right in his own back yard. Sad!!!!! He lost the kid out of Fort Smith last year.

THE THINK THAT GETS ME IS NUTT CAN NOT KEEP OUR GOOD PLAYERS IN STATE.

Yes, and whats funny about that is that nobody ever mentions it, especially radio talk show hosts.

Slick was a pin in the rear.  He had an offer from the hogs for 18 months, but strung everyone along.  Then at the last minute Tn lost the # WR prospect in the nation out of their own back yard to USC and they came calling.  Besides, this team has a lot more needs than another 6ft something wr who can not get behind an SEC corner. 

[Hog Bounty Hunter]

I think you have to get some top recruits, and we have. Mustain, Andrews, McFadden, Jones, etc, etc. It comes down to coaching, and it comes down to doing a good job at getting guys who fit your program. Markuson is a genius at this with the O-line. Taking guys that weren't highly recruited and making them great lineman.

Oh brother here we go again, the last coach who could take a lineman and develop them at Arkansas was Danny Ford.  Lineman don't get better under Markuson, he is one of the main problems with this team.  He had a good line on the right side with Andrews and Peters but it wasn't his coaching, Andrews and Peters came with it from the crib.

[brooks74]

With a statement like this you must be a Texas fan!!

What exactly was that supposed to mean?  I have been a hog fan my whole life.  Name a top recruit from Arkansas that has left and been a major contributor at another D-1 school in the last 10 years

[Hardwork321]

i wish we where that lucky and lost some of our players to USC.

They talk about the recruiting base but he can not recruit the instate kids. This is really hard to take since i was a child. Then you talk about The NCAA! Please!! How do you lose A OL, TE, & WR from springdale. They are right in his own back yard. Sad!!!!! He lost the kid out of Fort Smith last year.

THE THINK THAT GETS ME IS NUTT CAN NOT KEEP OUR GOOD PLAYERS IN STATE.

Yes, and whats funny about that is that nobody ever mentions it, especially radio talk show hosts.

Slick was a pin in the rear. He had an offer from the hogs for 18 months, but strung everyone along. Then at the last minute Tn lost the # WR prospect in the nation out of their own back yard to USC and they came calling. Besides, this team has a lot more needs than another 6ft something wr who can not get behind an SEC corner.

[brooks74]

Burlsworth, Roper, Doughty, etc, etc.  Markuson is the only guy on the offensive staff that has done a good job.

[Hog Bounty Hunter]

With a statement like this you must be a Texas fan!!

What exactly was that supposed to mean? I have been a hog fan my whole life. Name a top recruit from Arkansas that has left and been a major contributor at another D-1 school in the last 10 years

DeAngelo Williams, sometimes it's just tooooo easy.

[brooks74]

1 in 10 years, and who else can you come up with?

[brooks74]

Deangelo's home in Wynne is closer to Memphis than Fayetteville, and Memphis is not considered a major D-1 School in football last time I checked

[Torqued pork]

Hogsanity, please tell us your excuse for Nuttless managing to lose D. Williams, B. Webb and B. Cleveland.

[Hardwork321]

We lost him to a Big time School Memphis!

1 in 10 years, and who else can you come up with?

[jkstock04]

Oh brother here we go again, the last coach who could take a lineman and develop them at Arkansas was Danny Ford. Lineman don't get better under Markuson, he is one of the main problems with this team. He had a good line on the right side with Andrews and Peters but it wasn't his coaching, Andrews and Peters came with it from the crib.

Exactly, Andrews and Peters came with loads of talent...how hard can it be to coach already awsome players??  I'm by no means a coach, but Nutt proved what he can do with good players his first year here..what happpens to him when he has to work with average talent???  He chokes...he cant make them ANY better!!!!!!!!!!!  RJ hasn't made ANY improvement this year...he doesnt have ANY quality coaches to help him get any better!!!!

[brooks74]

He stayed close to home, can you blame a kid for that?

[brooks74]

Stock, I said Markuson, not Nutt, check the posts

[Hardwork321]

The whole coaching staff must go!

Oh brother here we go again, the last coach who could take a lineman and develop them at Arkansas was Danny Ford. Lineman don't get better under Markuson, he is one of the main problems with this team. He had a good line on the right side with Andrews and Peters but it wasn't his coaching, Andrews and Peters came with it from the crib.

Exactly, Andrews and Peters came with loads of talent...how hard can it be to coach already awsome players??  I'm by no means a coach, but Nutt proved what he can do with good players his first year here..what happpens to him when he has to work with average talent???  He chokes...he cant make them ANY better!!!!!!!!!!!  RJ hasn't made ANY improvement this year...he doesnt have ANY quality coaches to help him get any better!!!!

[jkstock04]

Stock, I said Markuson, not Nutt, check the posts

I'm trying to prove my point...not to disprove yours.

[hoggystyle78]

Ever heard of Cortez Kennedy or Greg Jones or Bret Smith or Roshaun Fellows or Cedric Houston or Keith Jackson or Eric Mitchel , all I'm saying is there may not be the same number of D1 prospeects in ar but as you can see there has been some damn good players come from this state, ever heard of Willie Roaf? we must do a better job evaluating talent in our state and keep the majority of the best ones here, we have to this isn't open to debate, you see what is happening now to our program because nutless has turned us into a doomat! We must repair ties to the high school coaches and do a better job evaluating out of state players, I'm not interested in a kid from Texas who nobody in the state wanted except North Texas! just my opinion.

[brooks74]

Did you miss the last 10 years part of that post?  Fellows got benched, Houston didn't light the world up, and I said that Smith was one we should have gotten and would have made a great WR at Arkansas

[brooks74]

Nice Bogarto, but I was talking about proving out.  The Springdale kids haven't played a down yet.  If all these guys came to Arkansas and played the way they have, you would be griping that we wasted scholarships on them.  Bradley went to UAPB before walking on at OU, so no one recruited him, OU got lucky that his dad went there and he had ties there. 

[brooks74]

I have a friend who grew up in Sprigdale, and his family still is there and active.  They said that Cleveland and Webb weren't as great as they have been made out to be.  Mustain and Williams were definitely top talent and Norman is decent.  Webb is good, but I think the OT from Pocahotas that commited is rated higher

[brooks74]

I don't think there will ever be a time that whoever the coach is keeps all the top talent in state.  There will be years when we do, but not often.  I think he has done decent at getting the big time recruits, McFadden, Hillis, Mustain, Shawn Andrews, etc, etc.

[brooks74]

Nutt has never been a passing coach and never will be.  He has to be forced (as the rumor goes) to hire help for the offense.  What does that tell you.  It tells me that our offense sucks!  I'm not even sure we suck, that would be doing something meaningful (ala vacuum, lady of the evening).

Clint Stoerner, hello?  Nutt can pass, he just has gotten scared and lost his edge.  I agree, our offense sucks right now, but Nutt started here as a coach who takes chances, now he coaches not to lose.  Don't know what happened, but he used to have a creative offense

[jkstock04]

Nutt has never been a passing coach and never will be. He has to be forced (as the rumor goes) to hire help for the offense. What does that tell you. It tells me that our offense sucks! I'm not even sure we suck, that would be doing something meaningful (ala vacuum, lady of the evening).

Clint Stoerner, hello? Nutt can pass, he just has gotten scared and lost his edge. I agree, our offense sucks right now, but Nutt started here as a coach who takes chances, now he coaches not to lose. Don't know what happened, but he used to have a creative offense

Nutt and his assistants cant win/coach good with anything but awsome players...he can't take average players and make them better...see R.J. this year.  That was my point to this thread.

[rricha]

Coaches play a big part in young players development not all players are blue chip ball players comming out of high school.  For example Dan Hampton was a skinny kid who got good coaching, Jimmy Walker was a Linebacker at LIttle Rock Central was told to walk on a UCA got his scholorship after the all star game in 1975.  Wayne Martin was a skinny kid out of Cherry Valley, Tony was a Offensive Guard turned nose guard.  Brandon Burlsworth a  walk on who made all american.  And then the ones that got away Steve Folley, William Roaf, because they were not blue chippers

[rricha]

Coaches play a big part in young players development not all players are blue chip ball players coming out of high school. For example Dan Hampton was a skinny kid who got good coaching, Jimmy Walker was a Linebacker at Little Rock Central was told to walk on a UCLA got his scholarship after the all star game in 1975. Wayne Martin was a skinny kid out of Cherry Valley, Tony was a Offensive Guard turned nose guard. Brandon Burlsworth a walk on who made all American. And then the ones that got away Steve Foley, William Roaf, because they were not blue chippers.     

Jimmy's son starts for Notre Dame

[Hog Bounty Hunter]

Coaches play a big part in young players development not all players are blue chip ball players coming out of high school. For example Dan Hampton was a skinny kid who got good coaching, Jimmy Walker was a Linebacker at Little Rock Central was told to walk on a UCLA got his scholarship after the all star game in 1975. Wayne Martin was a skinny kid out of Cherry Valley, Tony was a Offensive Guard turned nose guard. Brandon Burlsworth a walk on who made all American. And then the ones that got away Steve Foley, William Roaf, because they were not blue chippers.

Jimmy's son starts for Notre Dame

Wow didn't know that, Nutt missed again.

[clemensrules01]

Hogsanity, please tell us your excuse for Nuttless managing to lose D. Williams, B. Webb and B. Cleveland.

we still may have a shot will all of them, with the exception of webb, if we get malzahn.  ben cleveland seems injury prone to me and it may be the system that helps him out so much. d. williams is, however, a huge loss if we dont manage to sign him.

[corndo]

Seems to me a lot of people put the blame on how we dont have the recruiting and theres not many D-1 prospects here in Arkansas. My question is this..do all of our players/recruits HAVE to be elite players coming out of high school in order for us to be a good team???...Yes, it would be nice...But what about our coaching??? Shouldn't a good coach or a great coach be able to coach an average player into a great player? Theres a lot of talk about Malzahn on this site...look at what he's done with his teams...was he always just a lucky guy and by some coincidence always managed to have the best players? He did it at Shilo and now he's doing it at Springdale...did his players with awsome talent just fall into his lap mysteriously?? Hell no, he COACHED them to be the players they are...now, I do realize I'm using an example of a high school coach compared to college football. But, it is still a good example of how great coaching will turn out great players....we need better assistant coaches just as bad as a new head coach in my opinion.

Texas Tech is an example on the college level. Few highly recruited players, and even fewer that make it to the NFL, and yet they win.

[clemensrules01]

everyone one has a good year once every 10 years. texas tech hasnt played anyone noteable except nebraska, and im not too sure about them.  hell, even HDN has had a couple of good years.

[merccedes]

I think it is very interesting how those of you that keep saying we have lost Williams, Webb, and Cleveland are pretty much part of the same people that say Mustain is not a sure thing. What goes for one doesn't go for the other huh?

[hogken]

didn't Mike Cherry break records at Murray St. for passing under Nutt?

[jkstock04]

didn't Mike Cherry break records at Murray St. for passing under Nutt?

Mabye so, Steorner did good under Nutt here too...IF we get Mustain, I'm sure he'll do good under Nutt(assuming Nutt is still here).  My point is if we get an average player like RJ we cant make him ANY better...no coaches have brought him along any...no improvment all year. 

[wiseoldhog]

Talent means alot but when you are not coached are postioned right it nothing you can do. Hey these kids are on ly doing what they are taught and being told.

[Boner]

Nice Bogarto, but I was talking about proving out. The Springdale kids haven't played a down yet. If all these guys came to Arkansas and played the way they have, you would be griping that we wasted scholarships on them. Bradley went to UAPB before walking on at OU, so no one recruited him, OU got lucky that his dad went there and he had ties there.

De. Williams, Helms, Smith and Fellows would 100% start on this Arkansas team right now.  Most of the other would contribute.