Lunney talks in-state offers and other topics

[Richard Davenport]

http://www.wholehogsports.com/news/2016/mar/03/barry-lunney-jr-talks-recruiting-state-offers-and-/

[1highhog]

Thanks RD for the article.  This just proves to all the naysayers on here how CBB and his Staff evaluate instate recruits.  We have so many keyboard Coaches on here that think just because Georgia or Bama offered an instate recruit that our Coaches must be sleeping on the job.  Just as Coach Lunney said about how Bielema follows certain guidelines when recruiting these young men, especially instate kids, he likes to meet them first and hopefully get them on Campus and check everything about them, meet their parents, check any grade issues, anything because he does not ever want to pull and offer from a kid once it's been offered to them.

This could have serious repercussions in the long run, especially in a small state like ours, if CB started doing such things a lot of high school Coaches would do there best to talk their players from going to the UofA.

[DeltaBoy]

Yep this Staff is vetting future players way more than most.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Thanks RD for the article.  This just proves to all the naysayers on here how CBB and his Staff evaluate instate recruits.  We have so many keyboard Coaches on here that think just because Georgia or Bama offered an instate recruit that our Coaches must be sleeping on the job.  Just as Coach Lunney said about how Bielema follows certain guidelines when recruiting these young men, especially instate kids, he likes to meet them first and hopefully get them on Campus and check everything about them, meet their parents, check any grade issues, anything because he does not ever want to pull and offer from a kid once it's been offered to them.

This could have serious repercussions in the long run, especially in a small state like ours, if CB started doing such things a lot of high school Coaches would do there best to talk their players from going to the UofA.

One of the things that hurt our recruiting over time under Nutt. Was not unknown for him to "string" a kid along only to end up either jerking an actual offer or not end up offering at all. Trust me when I say that you get into a habit of doing that, especially in this state, it won't take long for high school coaches to be less than cooperative or receptive going forward.

From what I understand there were several HCs from schools that had a fairly good "production line" of D1 players who basically told Hooter and staff not to bother trying to recruit any of their players 'cause they were totally tired and disgusted with the recruiting games being played.

[The_Boot_stops_here]

Just don't see the danger in offering a kid (assuming you think the talent is there) on the condition that the offer only stands if the academic requirements are met.  Who would get upset over a staff moving on if the grades aren't there?  Byers being a perfect example.  Go get him and then if he can't get his crap together in the classroom (if this is the issue) then he doesn't have a spot.  seems reasonable to me

[PorkRinds]

Just don't see the danger in offering a kid (assuming you think the talent is there) on the condition that the offer only stands if the academic requirements are met.  Who would get upset over a staff moving on if the grades aren't there?  Byers being a perfect example.  Go get him and then if he can't get his crap together in the classroom (if this is the issue) then he doesn't have a spot.  seems reasonable to me

Because the staff can't go out there and say "we yanked the offer because of his grades".  But the kid can think, feel, believe, or say anything he wants publically.  It's a perception issue.  We can't afford to piss off in state coaches, so we are up front and honest with the kid that he'll get the offer when it's a committable offer.  It's been explained here ad nauseum.  You could get it if you wanted to.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Thanks RD for the article.  This just proves to all the naysayers on here how CBB and his Staff evaluate instate recruits.  We have so many keyboard Coaches on here that think just because Georgia or Bama offered an instate recruit that our Coaches must be sleeping on the job.  Just as Coach Lunney said about how Bielema follows certain guidelines when recruiting these young men, especially instate kids, he likes to meet them first and hopefully get them on Campus and check everything about them, meet their parents, check any grade issues, anything because he does not ever want to pull and offer from a kid once it's been offered to them.

This could have serious repercussions in the long run, especially in a small state like ours, if CB started doing such things a lot of high school Coaches would do there best to talk their players from going to the UofA.

One other thing folks need to take into consideration when you have all these out of state schools offering so early. Most, if not all, of these staffs don't have to worry about coming back and apologizing later if an offer gets jerked. That's because most won't be making future offers to many/any kids, at least not on a regular basis, within Arkansas.

Compare that with the fact that CBB and staff are naturally going to be extending offers on a yearly basis to kids around the state. Knowing that very fact does it make sense to develop a habit of rushing to offer without proper vetting only to go back and rescind an offer??? In other words, and to put it indelicately, you don't sh$t in your own mess kit.

[The_Boot_stops_here]

Because the staff can't go out there and say "we yanked the offer because of his grades".  But the kid can think, feel, believe, or say anything he wants publically.  It's a perception issue.  We can't afford to piss off in state coaches, so we are up front and honest with the kid that he'll get the offer when it's a committable offer.  It's been explained here ad nauseum.  You could get it if you wanted to.

no in state coach is going to get upset if a kid's offer gets pulled due to grades.  They aren't stupid.  They know how the process works.  Patton for instance is not going to hold it against Beilema if Byers is headed to JUCO and we have to move on. 

[Hawgar The Horrible]

no in state coach is going to get upset if a kid's offer gets pulled due to grades.  They aren't stupid.  They know how the process works.  Patton for instance is not going to hold it against Beilema if Byers is headed to JUCO and we have to move on.

You need to accept the fact Bielema and staff have a recruiting process and they're not going to waver. You don't have to like it.

[WooPig90]

You need to accept the fact Bielema and staff have a recruiting process and they're not going to waver. You don't have to like it.

Agree, this guy is a broken record.

[The_Boot_stops_here]

You need to accept the fact Bielema and staff have a recruiting process and they're not going to waver. You don't have to like it.

and you might was well accept the fact that it will likely be a topic of conversation here as long as that is the process.  You don't have to like it

[Hawgar The Horrible]

and you might was well accept the fact that it will likely be a topic of conversation here as long as that is the process.  You don't have to like it

No skin off my back. I'm not the one that will be considered a whiner.

[The_Boot_stops_here]

Agree, this guy is a broken record.

expound on that if you will....

[PorkRinds]

no in state coach is going to get upset if a kid's offer gets pulled due to grades.  They aren't stupid.  They know how the process works.  Patton for instance is not going to hold it against Beilema if Byers is headed to JUCO and we have to move on.

And you know this how?  You have to assume they've come to this process for a reason.  Because of situations they've faced in the past.  You've got no clue how a coach will react.  But beyond that, how will parents react?  How will fans react?  How will that kids' family react?  Because they can ALL go public with their grievances but the coaches cannot.

[The_Boot_stops_here]

No skin off my back. I'm not the one that will be considered a whiner.

Same

[The_Boot_stops_here]

And you know this how?  You have to assume they've come to this process for a reason.  Because of situations they've faced in the past.  You've got no clue how a coach will react.  But beyond that, how will parents react?  How will fans react?  How will that kids' family react?  Because they can ALL go public with their grievances but the coaches cannot.

I am assuming.  Just like you're assuming that it would piss off the hs coach if the kid doesn't hold up his end of the bargain and the offer is pulled as a result.  you don't know that would happen just like I don't know that it wouldn't.  funny how most of what ends up on a message board is opinion and assumption.
however, if grades are the issue, in the end there isn't much explaining to do if a kid ends up in Coffeyville instead of Fayetteville.  they can cry all they want but it will be out there for everyone to see

[PorkRinds]

I am assuming.  Just like you're assuming that it would piss off the hs coach if the kid doesn't hold up his end of the bargain and the offer is pulled as a result.  you don't know that would happen just like I don't know that it wouldn't.  funny how most of what ends up on a message board is opinion and assumption.
however, if grades are the issue, in the end there isn't much explaining to do if a kid ends up in Coffeyville instead of Fayetteville.  they can cry all they want but it will be out there for everyone to see

But what if he ends up at a P5 school other than Arkansas that has less stringent requirements than the SEC?  Then the perception is that we lost a kid to an out of state school.  Perception is reality.  So they'd rather be seen as not offering than getting beat out by another school and "losing" an in state recruit.   

[Cinco de Hogo]

No skin off my back. I'm not the one that will be considered a whiner.

Yea you are, most of us would just like to discuss this topic and many others.  Then you start whining about what we want to discuss.

And I agree you have to approach instate recruiting a little differently than out of state recruiting.  What exactly that means probably varies and neither you nor I could possibly know what's going to work best.  On the otherhand CBB and staff are doing great instate so the easiest thing to do is just let them keep doing it.  Which is what they are going to do anyway.

[Cinco de Hogo]

But what if he ends up at a P5 school other than Arkansas that has less stringent requirements than the SEC?  Then the perception is that we lost a kid to an out of state school.  Perception is reality.  So they'd rather be seen as not offering than getting beat out by another school and "losing" an in state recruit.

Doesn't someone alway set the record straight, at least for the people that follow recruiting.  I mean it seems we alway know one way or the other and we usually know before NSD.

[The_Boot_stops_here]

But what if he ends up at a P5 school other than Arkansas that has less stringent requirements than the SEC?  Then the perception is that we lost a kid to an out of state school.  Perception is reality.  So they'd rather be seen as not offering than getting beat out by another school and "losing" an in state recruit.   

I suppose just about anything "could" happen but I would imagine that, as with most things recruiting, we would know in the end. 

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Doesn't someone alway set the record straight, at least for the people that follow recruiting.  I mean it seems we alway know one way or the other and we usually know before NSD.

Yes, the staff can get any info it wants to go public to go public.   

[PorkRinds]

Yes, the staff can get any info it wants to go public to go public.

Yeah, back channel releasing information to counter a recruit speaking negatively about the team in public, or to fix public perception that we "lost" an in state guy is a MUCH better option than just being selective with offers.  Much better.  More honest too. 

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Yeah, back channel releasing information to counter a recruit speaking negatively about the team in public, or to fix public perception that we "lost" an in state guy is a MUCH better option than just being selective with offers.  Much better.  More honest too. 

Never suggest such.  I'm saying they do it.

[colbs]

no in state coach is going to get upset if a kid's offer gets pulled due to grades.  They aren't stupid.  They know how the process works.  Patton for instance is not going to hold it against Beilema if Byers is headed to JUCO and we have to move on. 

You never know.  Maybe another recruit takes it the wrong way.  I remember BB pulling two recruit's offer a couple years ago due to grades and their HC was pretty upset about it.  It hasn't really been an issue with any instate kids yet so I'm not too bothered by it.

[RazorPiggie]

I'm sure the coaching staff will let this in-state guys know where they stand if there is ever an issue. If there is an issue I'm sure they will let the recruit know that if they get the "issue" corrected the offer will still be there but be there publicly rather than privately.

[The_Boot_stops_here]

You never know.  Maybe another recruit takes it the wrong way.  I remember BB pulling two recruit's offer a couple years ago due to grades and their HC was pretty upset about it.  It hasn't really been an issue with any instate kids yet so I'm not too bothered by it.

You remember correctly. It happened with a couple of LA kids. Doesn't Seem to really have hurt our recruiting down there.

[ricepig]

You remember correctly. It happened with a couple of LA kids. Doesn't Seem to really have hurt our recruiting down there.

Have we recruited anyone else from that high school?

[Wildhog]

McBride/Mosley didn't have their offers pulled due to grades.

[The_Boot_stops_here]

McBride/Mosley didn't have their offers pulled due to grades.

You're right.  They both ended up at TCU.  Either way, it hasn't had an impact on LA recruiting.

[AirWarren]

Just don't see the danger in offering a kid (assuming you think the talent is there) on the condition that the offer only stands if the academic requirements are met.  Who would get upset over a staff moving on if the grades aren't there?  Byers being a perfect example.  Go get him and then if he can't get his crap together in the classroom (if this is the issue) then he doesn't have a spot.  seems reasonable to me

Email Barry. He can answer your questions and address it for you.

[The_Boot_stops_here]

Email Barry. He can answer your questions and address it for you.

not sure why I would do that but thanks for the suggestion

[RazorPiggie]

McBride/Mosley didn't have their offers pulled due to grades.

Didn't miss much there. They've played a total of 13 games combined.

[redeye]

Richard, I'd love to hear more about this comment regarding Jonathan Marshall.  I remember you saying he looked like a SEC DE, but I didn't realize you were this high on him.  I mean, that right there is some high praise.

https://twitter.com/ArRecruitingGuy/status/705622982492684288

[PorkSoda]

I am assuming.  Just like you're assuming that it would piss off the hs coach if the kid doesn't hold up his end of the bargain and the offer is pulled as a result.  you don't know that would happen just like I don't know that it wouldn't.  funny how most of what ends up on a message board is opinion and assumption.
however, if grades are the issue, in the end there isn't much explaining to do if a kid ends up in Coffeyville instead of Fayetteville.  they can cry all they want but it will be out there for everyone to see

the reality is, CBB has a method to his madness.  you win some, you lose some, but if  you don't stick to your method then its not a method its just an excuse.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Yea you are, most of us would just like to discuss this topic and many others.  Then you start whining about what we want to discuss.

And I agree you have to approach instate recruiting a little differently than out of state recruiting.  What exactly that means probably varies and neither you nor I could possibly know what's going to work best.  On the otherhand CBB and staff are doing great instate so the easiest thing to do is just let them keep doing it.  Which is what they are going to do anyway.

I've got news for you, bud. When someone repeatedly states he doesn't understand, doesn't get it or doesn't agree umpteen damn times in numerous threads...despite rational explanations by several different posters, it's not a discussion. It has grown beyond daftness. And it is irritating to say the least.

[1highhog]

no in state coach is going to get upset if a kid's offer gets pulled due to grades.  They aren't stupid.  They know how the process works.  Patton for instance is not going to hold it against Beilema if Byers is headed to JUCO and we have to move on. 

You don't know how things work then.  I know one for sure during Nutts time that we lost some good recruits from his program that played SEC ball, I know this because I know the Coach.

[AirWarren]

not sure why I would do that but thanks for the suggestion

You seem to ask why a lot. So, email him and ask him.

[wildhogman]

I suppose just about anything "could" happen but I would imagine that, as with most things recruiting, we would know in the end. 

After reading this thread and several post from different people, I'll take a crack at this using our fav coach as an example. You guys remember when good ol HDN left us and went to ol piss?  The guru's, sports analyst's, ESPN and granny down at the grocery store all thought our fan base was NUTTS for running of what might be the best coach we could ever get. Remember those day?  Now in time it was proven we was pretty smart to run him off as he flamed out big time at Ol piss and hasn't coached since. 
Hear in lies my question. Some of you guys claim that the truth will come out if we had to pull and offer due to grades.  Did the truth ever come out about Nutt in regards to the UofA?  Has anyone heard the national media say "yup those hog fans are pretty darn sharp to get rid of the Monkey with a whistle?
I haven't. In fact they still use the banners as an example of just how fanatical our fans can be. Imagine what they will use when Player X is offered,, then the offer pulled and he goes to OU which has lower enterance exams?   I have a pretty good idea. His coach and parents will be telling anyone with a mic that Ark was stupid for pulling the offer.. They sure aint gonna admit "lil jonny" might have slipped on grades or something. Now, our local recruitniks might say it and put it out there, but only ones who will here it is local stations.
The absolute last thing you wanna do is upset the coaches and or players instate. Why take the chance?

[hawgfan4life]

If no coach would be unreasonable and understand an offer being pulled for grades, it is fair to say no recruit should be unreasonable and understand a full offer is only made once they have the grades and test score.

Daniels played AR fans and coaches for attention as much as he was serious about AR.  Committed to OU, backed out late, flirted with AR until he got the offer he always wanted, then visited a dumpster fire and committed to their arch rival.  I counter these are not the players we want regardless of their talent.

Build it right with quality players.  Recruits who didn't take care of business, get butt hurt because a school didn't ignore that important fact, and hold a grudge are not who we need.

Fans who bitch and moan about offers not being made soon enough almost a year out are much more of a problem to the program than the coaches diligence in vetting the recruits too long.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Well looking back at how the Daniels situation unfolded SOMEONE seemed to be feeding a good portion of the fan base a line or two. All there seemed to be for the longest was the conviction that it was merely a matter of us offering and he was a done deal.

I realize we waited, however, as we know, Texass waited virtually as long. Then almost over night without a glance our way or an official visit he decommits from OU and almost simultaneously hops to UT. Yep, some strange goings on for a fact. Seems like we have at least one of those a year where we have a "sure fire", just waiting to hop on board type recruit that in the end doesn't seem to work out for one reason or another. 

[Peter Porker]

Thanks RD for the article.  This just proves to all the naysayers on here how CBB and his Staff evaluate instate recruits.  We have so many keyboard Coaches on here that think just because Georgia or Bama offered an instate recruit that our Coaches must be sleeping on the job.  Just as Coach Lunney said about how Bielema follows certain guidelines when recruiting these young men, especially instate kids, he likes to meet them first and hopefully get them on Campus and check everything about them, meet their parents, check any grade issues, anything because he does not ever want to pull and offer from a kid once it's been offered to them.

This could have serious repercussions in the long run, especially in a small state like ours, if CB started doing such things a lot of high school Coaches would do there best to talk their players from going to the UofA.

Care to give examples of Nutt doing that?

[Obi-Hawg Kenobi]

Stupid strategy.
It'll keep us 10th in the SEC in recruiting too.
Smh..

[factchecker]

Stupid strategy.
It'll keep us 10th in the SEC in recruiting too.
Smh..

You have any example of an in-state kid who we "slow played" that would have improved our recruiting rankings?

SMH!!!! How many times do I have to post this link proving that our in-state recruiting strategy is working?

SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH SMH


Now I feel like a "realist"!!!

In-State Recruiting under Coach Bielema: (top 5 recruits according to ESPN)

2013

Hunter Henry            Signed by Arkansas           Mackey Award Winner
Altee Tenpenny         Signed by Bama                              -
Brooks Ellis               Signed by Arkansas           Starting Linebacker
Austin Allen              Signed by Arkansas            To be determined
Jamar Criswell           ?                                                   -

2014

Bijhon Jackson          Signed by Arkansas           In 2-deep rotation
Joshua Frazier           Signed by Bama               Buried in depth chart
Jabe Burgess             Signed by Tulsa                Transfer to Mississippi Gulf Coast CC (JUCO)
Josh Liddell               Signed by Arkansas           Starting Safety
Deandre Murray         Signed by Tulsa                Transfer to D2 Pittsburg State

2015

K.J. Hill                     Signed by Ohio State                          To be determined (red-shirt?)
C.J. O'Grady              Signed by Arkansas                             Red-Shirt To be Determined
Will Gragg                 Signed by Arkansas                              Red-Shirt To be Determined
Jamario Bell               Signed by Arkansas                             Red-Shirt To be Determined
Dominique Reed         Signed by Arkansas (from JUCO)           Key weapon in passing game

2016

McTelvin Agim             Signed by Arkansas                             To be Determined
T.J. Hammonds           Signed by Arkansas                              To be Determined
John Tate                   Signed by Memphis                               To be Determined
Austin Capps               Signed by Arkansas                              To be Determined
Jordan Jones               Signed by Arkansas                              To be Determined

2013: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/databaseresults?firstname=&lastname=&collegeid=&class=2013&position=&state=3

2014: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/databaseresults?firstname=&lastname=&collegeid=&class=2014&position=&state=3

2015: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/databaseresults?firstname=&lastname=&collegeid=&class=2015&position=&state=3

2016: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/databaseresults?firstname=&lastname=&collegeid=&class=2016&position=&state=3

6 out of top 20 recruits have left state---- 3 of which had offers from Arkansas (Tenpenny, Frazier, and Hill)

Considering those facts, only 3 offered recruits left the state.  NONE of the three were offered late or "slow-played".  K.J. Hill was actually committed to us for a period of time before using Chaney's departure as an excuse to bail.

[factchecker]

I've done the research.  I've proven with facts that we have lost few in-state recruits under Coach Bielema.  The few we lost were not slow played. 

Doesn't matter. 

One kid from Texas is enough evidence for the "realist".... despite him flipping from a school who offered early (Oklahoma) to a late offering school (Texas).

Push your own agendas.  Paint your own picture.  Use your own false narratives.  No more from me.

[howie76]

I would think if you offered a kid and he didn't make the grades you wouldn't have to pull the offer... He just wouldn't be able to stay committed and you could offer another? I really don't know and I have no problem the way cbb and staff handle it but why would they have to pull the offer?

[ricepig]

I would think if you offered a kid and he didn't make the grades you wouldn't have to pull the offer... He just wouldn't be able to stay committed and you could offer another? I really don't know and I have no problem the way cbb and staff handle it but why would they have to pull the offer?

Because it's possible he could make his grades or test score after NSD. We only get X amount of slots, should we pass over another player in his place?

[lefty08]

Just don't see the danger in offering a kid (assuming you think the talent is there) on the condition that the offer only stands if the academic requirements are met.  Who would get upset over a staff moving on if the grades aren't there?  Byers being a perfect example.  Go get him and then if he can't get his crap together in the classroom (if this is the issue) then he doesn't have a spot.  seems reasonable to me

Please explain to us the dangers of holding out on an offer until the kid is properly vetted and everything is in order. This argument goes both ways. Not offering a prospect doesn't keep the staff from making contact. It's really a non-issue from everyone except star gazing fans.

[howie76]

Because it's possible he could make his grades or test score after NSD. We only get X amount of slots, should we pass over another player in his place?

i see now.. Thanks

[wildhogman]

I would think if you offered a kid and he didn't make the grades you wouldn't have to pull the offer... He just wouldn't be able to stay committed and you could offer another? I really don't know and I have no problem the way cbb and staff handle it but why would they have to pull the offer?

I think this is more to do with commits than offers. You can offer 1 million kids. You can only accept 25 commits thanks to Ol Hooty when he was at Ol Piss. SEC got upset about the 35 or more commits he got that year and so limited commits to 25.  So if a player is a grade risk late in process and is commited, he is tying up a spot that another player could have.  From that point on its a gamble. If he makes his grades and signs Horahh.  If he doesn't and goes to juco and we only get 24 kids that year because he occupied a slot, the same fans whining about the slow vetting would be whining on here about how dumb it was to not "pull" his offer. Which goes back to causing hard feelings among HS coaches for pulling offers. Do that 3 or 4 years in a row with 2 or 3 kids and next thing ya know you have 6 to 12 coaches plus all their HS coaching friends unhappy with you and find it as hard as other coaches to recruit home grown talent.
Again I ask the question. Why even take the chance and risk angering HS coaches around the state when they alllll seem content and satisfied with CBB vetting process and rule about making grade requirements?  After all this helps them keep their star player quailified to play their senior year.
Maybe CBB is just as concerned with making them great students and great men later in life as he is in making great players and a great team.

[Richard Davenport]

Richard, I'd love to hear more about this comment regarding Jonathan Marshall.  I remember you saying he looked like a SEC DE, but I didn't realize you were this high on him.  I mean, that right there is some high praise.

https://twitter.com/ArRecruitingGuy/status/705622982492684288

I'm strictly talking about the passing the eye test. When I saw Jonathan I was like Wow!!! He looks like DT that plays DE. If he continues to grow he'll go inside.