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Who's to blame for the downfall in football?

Started by Captain Morgan, September 29, 2017, 06:03:49 pm

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Who's to blame for eroding in football?

The Board of Trustees
10 (5.4%)
Dr. Jeff Long
93 (50%)
Bret Bielema
46 (24.7%)
The fans
26 (14%)
The alumni
4 (2.2%)
Kurt Anderson/Samantha Pittman
7 (3.8%)

Total Members Voted: 185

LZH

Quote from: GuvHog on September 30, 2017, 09:11:06 am
You do realize that Hatfield had a new contract on his desk which included a nice raise sitting on his desk in the BAC waiting for his signature when he jumped ship for Clemson don't you??

I don't think that was ever brought up until AFTER he split for Clemson......as in "look at what he walked away from."

Rzback

Winning the SWC and having shots at the National Championship was a lot more fun to me than what we've experienced since joining the SEC. I just can't understand Razorback fans that are satisfied with being mediocre.
Winning Percentages (how times have changed!) Frank Broyles 71%  Lou Holtz  74%  Ken Hatfield 76%  Jack Crowe 38%  Joe Kines 35%  Danny Ford 47% Houston Nutt 61%  Bobby Petrino 67%  John L Smith  33%  Bret Bielema 46%  Chad Morris 14%  Sam Pittman 52%

 

GuvHog

Quote from: LZH on September 30, 2017, 09:33:32 am
I don't think that was ever brought up until AFTER he split for Clemson......as in "look at what he walked away from."

It was there and he knew about it. It just wasn't mentioned to the public until after he left.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

Ugly Uncle

The SWC was a dirty lopsided conference.  By lopsided I mean that Texas controlled everything.  The cheating wa obvious on and off the field.  The calls we had go against us were just unbelievable.

Joining the SEC was a brilliant move by Broyles.  We could have and should have beeen able to compete just fine in the SEC.  We had a terrible coach in HdN and then have had craziness happen ever since then.

With the terrible person and coach that HdN was, almost hiring Grobe then getting Bobby P.  The motorcycle wreck, Mr. Integrity, John L. Smith mistake...It is hard to imagine many other programs that have had the kind of bad luck and misfortune we have had.

We will be fine.  If we get the right coach in here we can be competitive.
Retired Radio Host

David†

I should have bought a bunch apple and walmart stocks.

The Boar War

Although joining what would become the Big 12 would have been the most natural fit, apparently an invite to the Big 8 was not available.  Seems a little hard to believe given the SEC invite but that's what Broyles said.  Either way joining the SEC wasn't a bad idea.  We've just made a bunch of bad decisions since joining the conference.  No team in the SEC would be winning with the coaching hires we've made and the recruiting restrictions we've put on ourselves.

Ex-Trumpet

Quote from: Ched "UglyUncle" Carpenter on September 30, 2017, 09:41:10 am
The SWC was a dirty lopsided conference.  By lopsided I mean that Texas controlled everything.  The cheating wa obvious on and off the field.  The calls we had go against us were just unbelievable.

Joining the SEC was a brilliant move by Broyles.  We could have and should have beeen able to compete just fine in the SEC.  We had a terrible coach in HdN and then have had craziness happen ever since then.

With the terrible person and coach that HdN was, almost hiring Grobe then getting Bobby P.  The motorcycle wreck, Mr. Integrity, John L. Smith mistake...It is hard to imagine many other programs that have had the kind of bad luck and misfortune we have had.

We will be fine.  If we get the right coach in here we can be competitive.

Yep, Texas killed the SWC.  They are about to succeed in killing the Big 12 now, too.
Do dyslexic, agnostic insomniacs lie awake at night wondering if there really is a dog?

David†

How many teams are in the big12 now?

SWC sucked. All Texas and us. Sec officials are awesome in comparison.

SavoySeamster

Who's to blame?

I'd say Frank Broyles.

At least in the sense that you knew you were making the move to the SEC, why not go ahead and step up to the plate and spend some more money and try to land whoever may have been a hot, up and coming coach at the time and have you someone ready to lead. Arkansas was then, and until more or less this season, been competing against some of the best coaches in the land, in the SEC. I don't care what your business is, the do more with less philosophy will only work for so long. Eventually those that are more financially able, will eat you up.

It seems common knowledge that in our early years in the SEC, our facilities were behind other member schools. Our coaching was as well. You're one game into your inaugural SEC season and you can the head coach and finish the season with an interim guy. That couldn't have helped things, recruiting, etc.

So it seems that from our beginning in the SEC, we've been playing catch up, coaching wise especially.


"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes."

12247

Hatfield reminds me of a smarter, more more work ethic Bret.  Hell bent on a particular scheme that in Kenny's case, worked in the old watered down SWC but you couldn't take it on the road, where it got killed.  Kenny was a huge fish in the small pond of the SWC. 

Bret works in the Ocean called the SEC where you cannot hide inferior product. 

Our problem since Holtz got canned, is the folks standing on top of the ladder never look down so they hire without knowledge enough.

For 30+ years, we wash, rinse, repeat.  Our success has depended on outhouse luck and using that formula, we've been successful about as much as we should expect.

BoynamedWooPigSooie

Quote from: Ironhawg on September 30, 2017, 07:43:16 am
I saw an interview with Frank Broyles done a couple of years ago.  I had always assumed that if Frank had not gotten Arkansas into the SEC we would have ended up in the Big 12, but according to Frank we would have been frozen out of the Big 12 and would have ended up an orphan, likely ending up in a lesser conference.  Frank getting Arkansas into the SEC likely saved Arkansas athletics.  It's too bad we haven't been more competitive in football.

100% truth


There's been a string of bad hires of guys that didn't really understand what it takes to win in the SEC.  When we got the one guy that did he just happened to be a level 5000 creep that used his cushy contract w/ huge job security to push around his weakling boss and got more concerned w/ recruiting trim over closing the deal on recruiting big time athletes.  So many top level players we were the bridesmaid instead of the bride during the Petrino era.  At least he went out and tried to get the best players. Dumplin just gives excuses.
Hogville's resident uniform designer.

Hawghiggs

Quote from: David† on September 30, 2017, 09:49:57 am
How many teams are in the big12 now?

SWC sucked. All Texas and us. Sec officials are awesome in comparison.

Well the SEC has 14 teams now. But is it better league than when it had 12?

Hawghiggs

 A very good conference could be made from the states of Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Texas.

 

Bacons Rebellion

The SEC was an amazing move. Ugly's post is right on. The Southwest Conference was corrupt, tainted, and collapsing.

A lot of us SWC old timers though at the time something along the lines of "We're going to get smacked around a bit." It's still better playing Georgia and Florida than SMU and Rice.

LZH

Quote from: 12247 on September 30, 2017, 09:53:37 am
Our problem since Holtz got canned, is the folks standing on top of the ladder never look down so they hire without knowledge enough.

For 30+ years, we wash, rinse, repeat.  Our success has depended on outhouse luck and using that formula, we've been successful about as much as we should expect.

Good  point.

IronHog

Quote from: Bacons Rebellion on September 30, 2017, 10:23:23 am
The SEC was an amazing move. Ugly's post is right on. The Southwest Conference was corrupt, tainted, and collapsing.

A lot of us SWC old timers though at the time something along the lines of "We're going to get smacked around a bit." It's still better playing Georgia and Florida than SMU and Rice.



Any conference with Texas is tainted


Big 12 could have been HUGE with Texas, ATM, OU, Neb, Arkansas then finish out with TT, OSU, Kansas etc.......but Texas is Texas and not Bama.
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

PonderinHog

Quote from: Ex-Trumpet on September 30, 2017, 09:47:33 am
Yep, Texas killed the SWC.  They are about to succeed in killing the Big 12 now, too.
And people lament our decision to join the SEC.   ::hornsdown::

ShadowHawg

Quote from: Dark Helmet Hog on September 29, 2017, 06:12:04 pm
Bad poll. It started with White.

It actually improved under White as hard as that is to believe.

ShadowHawg

Quote from: Rzback on September 30, 2017, 09:36:02 am
Winning the SWC and having shots at the National Championship was a lot more fun to me than what we've experienced since joining the SEC. I just can't understand Razorback fans that are satisfied with being mediocre.

We were mediocre under Hatfield. Mediocre playing awful opponents. Makes for nice stats though.

Beating New Mexico State is expected. A glorified practice. Today's game is exactly like the Hatfield era. Beat a pud like you own them and lose in embarrassing fashion against real NC contenders.

Kinda like how a new video game is fun until you figure the pattern out that allows you yo be overpowering. That was the Hatfield era.


RebelliousHog

Quote from: GuvHog on September 30, 2017, 09:11:06 am
You do realize that Hatfield had a new contract on his desk which included a nice raise sitting on his desk in the BAC waiting for his signature when he jumped ship for Clemson don't you??

I thought the sticking point was that JFB wanted Hatfield to dump some of his assistants?
"Some there are who are nothing else than a passage for food and augmenters of excrement and fillers of privies, because through them no other things in the world, nor any good effects are produced, since nothing but full privies results from them."<br />―Leonardo da Vinci

OptimusHog


PonderinHog


HoggyCat

Jeff Long lied during the Petrino "investigation ". All the reports by the media that were twisted around were never clarified by him because it suited his plan.


Jeff Long lied to the BOT to get Bert the ridiculous raise, buyout & extension.  3-9 followed by 6-6 doesn't warrant that contract.  Not sure what criteria he used, especially since we're 10th in sec football academics.
I'm only responsible for what I say, not how you perceive it.

Captain Morgan

Had to add Kurt Anderson and Sammy Pittman but they both were/are below average OL coaches

 

LZH

Quote from: PonderinHog on September 30, 2017, 11:34:29 am
And people lament our decision to join the SEC.   ::hornsdown::

You mean covered in clear plastic?

OSTATE

I wish the heck you guys had come to the Big XII when you went to the SEC.  I thought it would be great with you guys as close to OSU, KU, KSU, MO and OSU as you are.

Tell ya' what!  We'll trade techas to the SEC for you guys and pay a bonus.  techas is IMO, the cause of the downfall of the Big XII.  They pissed Nebraska off so Nebraska jumps to the B1G.  They pissed of A&M and they jump to the SEC.  MO hit the panic button and tried to get into the B1G and failed so they went SEC.

OU, OSU, Tech and techas had a deal to go to the PAC 12 and techas killed it because they wouldn't give up their 'longhorn network".  I admire you guys for putting up with them as many years in the SWC as you did.

hogsanity

whoever integrated football. Plain and simple, a majority of the great players since then are AA and they do not live anywhere near Fayetteville except in a rare instance like Dmac.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Arazorbackguy1

I blame the school districts across the state.  Look at how far our high school football programs have fallen.  It's not talent, it's leadership that is no longer in coaching positions.  The talent is there, we just need good leaders to know how to develop that talent at an early age. 

School districts should take a close look at the model that Texas has and implement that in Arkansas. 
I have 10 to 12 points to make per game.

Captain Morgan

Quote from: hogsanity on October 01, 2017, 02:13:05 pm
whoever integrated football. Plain and simple, a majority of the great players since then are AA and they do not live anywhere near Fayetteville except in a rare instance like Dmac.

They are nowhere near Stillwater Oklahoma either

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: IronHog on September 30, 2017, 08:47:38 am

JFB moved UA to the SEC but at that point he could no longer hire coaches due to his meddling with Holtz and Hatfield.

He should have retired much earlier.

As should have you...................
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

hogsanity

Quote from: Captain Morgan on October 01, 2017, 05:18:35 pm
They are nowhere near Stillwater Oklahoma either

Dallas is in proximity as are Tulsa and OKC. I have not studied their roster, so I am not sure where most of their players come from.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hogsanity

Quote from: Arazorbackguy1 on October 01, 2017, 04:06:56 pm
I blame the school districts across the state.  Look at how far our high school football programs have fallen.  It's not talent, it's leadership that is no longer in coaching positions.  The talent is there, we just need good leaders to know how to develop that talent at an early age. 

School districts should take a close look at the model that Texas has and implement that in Arkansas. 

You keep telling yourself that the talent is there.

I like the idea of doing what Texas has done. Small schools play EIGHT MAN, maybe even Six. No more schools with 14 kids trying to play 11 man football, that would be a great start. Consolidation would be great too. good luck with both of those.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

DeltaBoy

Quote from: Sivad on September 30, 2017, 03:04:21 am
1. The hiring of Houston Nutt
2. The firing of Bobby Petrino

This. and the Hiring of Coach B.
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: hogsanity on October 02, 2017, 08:07:12 am
Dallas is in proximity as are Tulsa and OKC. I have not studied their roster, so I am not sure where most of their players come from.

Historically going way back they got a lot of instate players and supplemented with texas and other states. OU on the other hand has had as many as half of their teams over the years from Texas.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: hogsanity on October 02, 2017, 08:08:51 am
You keep telling yourself that the talent is there.

I like the idea of doing what Texas has done. Small schools play EIGHT MAN, maybe even Six. No more schools with 14 kids trying to play 11 man football, that would be a great start. Consolidation would be great too. good luck with both of those.

Consolidation has happened but I agree not enough.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Piggfoot

Quote from: GuvHog on September 30, 2017, 09:11:06 am
You do realize that Hatfield had a new contract on his desk which included a nice raise sitting on his desk in the BAC waiting for his signature when he jumped ship for Clemson don't you??
If he replaced some coaches as Frank wanted.
Hog fan since 1960. So thankful for Sam Pittman.

KennyForAD

Quote from: The Boar War on September 29, 2017, 06:17:04 pm
I'm interested in the reasoning behind whoever chooses "fans" or "alumni".

I chose Jeff Long, but I think fans and alumni share some of the blame for accepting an inferior product/failing to demand better.

hogsanity

Quote from: KennyForAD on October 02, 2017, 10:21:41 am
I chose Jeff Long, but I think fans and alumni share some of the blame for accepting an inferior product/failing to demand better.

Football fell way before Long was hired as AD.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

cj_sez

Quote from: Rzback on September 30, 2017, 06:21:08 am
I recognize that the SWC was a softer conference than the SEC but it was more fun for me winning the conference and competing for the National Title ever once in a while. Just don't understand many of today's Razorback fans acceptance of mediocrity...

Moving into a tougher conference should have toughened us, not led to acceptance to mediocrity.

KennyForAD

Quote from: hogsanity on October 02, 2017, 10:24:06 am
Football fell way before Long was hired as AD.

But it was back, or have you forgotten?   Seems like we finished in the top five a few years back, no?   Can you even imagine finishing in the top five NOW?

hogsanity

Quote from: KennyForAD on October 02, 2017, 10:51:36 am
But it was back, or have you forgotten?   Seems like we finished in the top five a few years back, no?   Can you even imagine finishing in the top five NOW?

2 good years does not constitute being back. In the BCS era 51 fbs team made a bcs bowl, were those schools all "back"? Being back mean being AND STAYING at a high level.

Sure, I can IMAGINE being in the top 5 now, just like i had to IMAGINE it most of the seasons in my 47 years.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Polecat

Arkansas born and raised. 1999 UA alum

Con el Cerdos

I say this without having read the entire thread.  So, if there is a common thought here.  My apologies.

No animosity intended, but Frank's at fault; he saved university athletics, financially, with the move to the SEC.  But in doing so, he doomed the football program to second-rate status.

Outside a total crash and burn in the upper tier of the SEC and a simultaneous aligning of the stars for Razorback football, no one on this board will live to see an SEC championship.  Hard to accept but absolutely factual, IMO.

PonderinHog


KennyForAD

Quote from: hogsanity on October 02, 2017, 11:18:04 am
2 good years does not constitute being back. In the BCS era 51 fbs team made a bcs bowl, were those schools all "back"? Being back mean being AND STAYING at a high level.

Sure, I can IMAGINE being in the top 5 now, just like i had to IMAGINE it most of the seasons in my 47 years.

As Long as Captain Integrity has the wheel, we will stay in the ditch.

texas tush hog

Quote from: GuvHog on September 30, 2017, 09:11:06 am
You do realize that Hatfield had a new contract on his desk which included a nice raise sitting on his desk in the BAC waiting for his signature when he jumped ship for Clemson don't you??


I do, but as soon as he went 7-5 he would have been fired.

HF#1

How can you have a poll like this and not have Bob Petrino on it?
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

hogsanity

how could the fans/alumni be at fault, unless it is because they don't produce enough good football player offspring?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

SPAL


Captain Morgan

Quote from: sir-pigs-a-lot on October 02, 2017, 01:06:44 pm
Hiring Hatfield over Jimmy Johnson

That's way better my time. I was a small lad then.  ::hornsdown::