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The Free Throw Question Deserves a Deeper Statistical Dive

Started by BRHogfan, March 22, 2017, 09:59:30 am

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BRHogfan

This season, Arkansas shot 825 free throws.  That's good enough for the 8th most in a season of Razorback Basketball.  We shot an amazing 76.1% which is the best we've ever done and the 628 makes are the most makes we've ever had.

QuoteIts our second best FT shooting season ever, not our best.

That honor goes to 1961-1962.

In 36 games (including UNC) we shot an average of 22.9 Free Throws a game earning an average of 17.4 ppg from free throws.  We improved our FTA in SEC play shooting an average of 23.3.

Our Season lows for free throw shooting
Feb 7th - 8 in a loss to Vanderbilt
Mar 11th - 9 in a win over Vanderbilt
Mar 19th - 8 in a loss to UNC

It should be noted that pace matters etc.  We attempted an average of 60 FG per game, and had 59, 63, and 60 in those games, so it isn't that these games were incredibly slow paced or anything.

Well Maybe Vanderbilt and UNC play elite defense and don't give up many Free Throw Attempts.
Vanderbilt gave up an average of 17.7 FTA for their 35 game season and 19.3 in SEC play.
UNC gave up an average of 18.1 FTA for their 36 games and 19.0 FTA in ACC play. 

Feb 7th - In this game we played absolutely terrible, so I can understand, somewhat how we shot 14 below our average and 9 below Vanderbilt's Average allowed.
Mar 11th - We played very well and shot only 9 free throws to Vanderbilt's 22.
Mar 19th - We played very well and shot only 8 free throws to UNC's 25

It should be noted that Arkansas allowed an average of 23.4 FTA to opponents for the season and 24.8 FTA to SEC opponents.  Vanderbilt actually should've shot 1-2 more free throws.
Vanderbilt averaged 18.8 FTA per game and UNC averaged 22.3 FTA per game.  So, they both shot over their averages.

So, I went through the whole season to see how it shook out.  In 20 out of 36 games this season opponents shot at least 1 more free throw than the Hogs.  11 times the difference was significant (more than 5 FTA).  In the 16 games where Arkansas shot more free throws, 10 times they shot 5 or more free throws than their opponents.  Only four of those games were against SEC opponents surprisingly enough @Florida was one of them.

Based on the average of opponents FTA average and Arkansas average of allowed free throws, opponents were expected to shoot an average of 22.5 FTA, they actually shot 23.4.  On a similar average, Arkansas was expected to shoot 21.7 FTA per game and shot 22.9

In Games where Arkansas opponents shot more than 5 more free throws than the Hogs (Kentucky 1st and 2nd game, UNC, IPFW, Vanderbilt 2nd and 3rd game, Georgia, Missouri 1st game, Mississippi State, Stephen F. Austin, Oklahoma State, Minnesota, North Dakota State) Arkansas shot 3.7 less free throws per game than expected and opponents shot 5.8 more free throws over their expected numbers. Arkansas was 6-6.

In Games where Arkansas shot more than 5 more free throws than their opponents (LSU 1st and 2nd game, Houston, Florida 2nd game, Mount St. Mary's, Ole Miss, North Florida, Texas A&M 2nd game, UT Arlington, Sam Houston State) Arkansas shot 7.3 more free throws than expected and opponents shot 5.2 less than expected.  Arkansas was 9-1 in those games.

XavierZane

Interesting numbers.  I wonder what the differential between UNC, Duke, and KY opponents' avg. fta and the fta they get when they play these teams? 

 

BRHogfan

Quote from: XavierZane on March 22, 2017, 10:13:53 am
Interesting numbers.  I wonder what the differential between UNC, Duke, and KY opponents' avg. fta and the fta they get when they play these teams?

Well considering how much we outclassed weaker names than ours with added talent level, I imagine due to their increased talent level and exposure they would do even more impressive things.  A 5 FTA advantage might not even seem like a significant number for their teams.

niels_boar

It's difficult to believe that a defense could be aggressive enough to force Barford and Hannahs into 11 TOs and 7 of 21 from the field and never send them to the line for one measly FTA.  Suddenly the Bailey pick that would have gone a long way to putting us in control of the game was too reachy for the officials.  Did UNC just commit only 4 PFs in the second half?  Well, we know that isn't true.
The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous a weapon today as in Sampson's time.

Atlhogfan1

Fewest Personal Fouls per Def Play in the R32:

UNC 12%,  season avg = 21.4%
UCLA 13.7%, season = 18.8%
Florida 14.3%, season = 22.3%
UK 14.4%, season = 22.2%
Arizona 17.1%, season = 21.9%
All winners

Mich St lost to KU 18%, season avg 25.6%


Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

BRHogfan

Quote from: niels_boar on March 22, 2017, 12:30:24 pm
It's difficult to believe that a defense could be aggressive enough to force Barford and Hannahs into 11 TOs and 7 of 21 from the field and never send them to the line for one measly FTA.  Suddenly the Bailey pick that would have gone a long way to putting us in control of the game was too reachy for the officials.  Did UNC just commit only 4 PFs in the second half?  Well, we know that isn't true.

So if our 36 games constitute a normal data set with normal distribution, in only 16% of games should we shoot less than 16 free throws.  We shot less than 16 free throws in 11% of games this season. We should only shoot less than 9 free throws in 2.5% of games, but we shot less than 9 in 5.6% of games and less than 10 in 8.3% of games.


BRHogfan

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on March 22, 2017, 12:53:12 pm
Fewest Personal Fouls per Def Play in the R32:

UNC 12%,  season avg = 21.4%
UCLA 13.7%, season = 18.8%
Florida 14.3%, season = 22.3%
UK 14.4%, season = 22.2%
Arizona 17.1%, season = 21.9%
All winners

Mich St lost to KU 18%, season avg 25.6%

Wow  :o

hogsanity

Quote from: BRHogfan on March 22, 2017, 01:00:26 pm
Wow  :o

why WOW? For one thing, it is pretty commonly agreed that the refs have been letting teams play. Several games saw one or both teams not reach the bonus in at least 1 half of the game. It is also not surprising that the winning team does not foul very much. Teams that foul alot tend to lose.

Good work by the OP, but how does it affect the numbers when a team is fouling late to stop the clock?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

BRHogfan

Quote from: hogsanity on March 22, 2017, 01:06:05 pm
why WOW? For one thing, it is pretty commonly agreed that the refs have been letting teams play. Several games saw one or both teams not reach the bonus in at least 1 half of the game. It is also not surprising that the winning team does not foul very much. Teams that foul alot tend to lose.

Good work by the OP, but how does it affect the numbers when a team is fouling late to stop the clock?

Of course teams that foul a lot tend to lose, but as a team that would normally have averaged 17 fouls against Arkansas only getting rung up for 10 while racking up 13 steals, UNC turned in an all-season performance defensively against Arkansas. No team has come within 4 steals of what UNC did and only Minnesota saw us turn the ball over more times.  UNC also turned in a season low on fouls as well.  That's a WOW!  And if you're talking about the narrative of letting teams play, it was hardly a low point the other way with UNC attempting a pretty average number of free throws, and Arkansas getting just about their average of 20.5 fouls per game.

It would be a lot more work to generate more numbers including having to foul etc. and since this was a game that didn't feature a lot of having to foul to extend the game, I felt like a general average was mostly acceptable.  Obviously the numbers would probably be shifted down a couple free throws on average, and the Deltas might be a little closer in some of those games.

hogsanity

Quote from: BRHogfan on March 22, 2017, 01:26:15 pm
Of course teams that foul a lot tend to lose, but as a team that would normally have averaged 17 fouls against Arkansas only getting rung up for 10 while racking up 13 steals, UNC turned in an all-season performance defensively against Arkansas. No team has come within 4 steals of what UNC did and only Minnesota saw us turn the ball over more times.  UNC also turned in a season low on fouls as well.  That's a WOW!  And if you're talking about the narrative of letting teams play, it was hardly a low point the other way with UNC attempting a pretty average number of free throws, and Arkansas getting just about their average of 20.5 fouls per game.

It would be a lot more work to generate more numbers including having to foul etc. and since this was a game that didn't feature a lot of having to foul to extend the game, I felt like a general average was mostly acceptable.  Obviously the numbers would probably be shifted down a couple free throws on average, and the Deltas might be a little closer in some of those games.

There are always outliers. How did the Hogs only commit 4 2nd half fouls at home against A&M? How did old miss shoot well below their average # of ft's against the Hogs in the sect?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

PorkRinds

Quote from: hogsanity on March 22, 2017, 01:06:05 pm
why WOW? For one thing, it is pretty commonly agreed that the refs have been letting teams play. Several games saw one or both teams not reach the bonus in at least 1 half of the game. It is also not surprising that the winning team does not foul very much. Teams that foul alot tend to lose.

Good work by the OP, but how does it affect the numbers when a team is fouling late to stop the clock?
Here you are with your ref boner again.

GoHogzzGo

Wow great write up. I was wondering about our free throw %. Why so high, and will it continue or just a blimp. Really helped with closing games, obviously. Except for the dam UNC game of course.
Success isn't permanent and failure isn't fatal.

GoHogzzGo

Success isn't permanent and failure isn't fatal.

 

BallHog1

Quote from: hogsanity on March 22, 2017, 01:06:05 pm
why WOW? For one thing, it is pretty commonly agreed that the refs have been letting teams play.
Also pretty commonly agreed that the refs let some teams play more than others.

hogsanity

Quote from: PorkRinds on March 22, 2017, 01:31:57 pm
Here you are with your ref boner again.

At least what I post pertains the the OP, not some weird stalking crap like yours. It actually goes right to why many teams are having games under their season foul numbers, because the refs are not calling as tightly as they did in the regular season. And, if the numbers were up, it would be because they are calling it tighter.

Which actually bring about the question of WHY would they call the regular season tighter than the NCAAT? They are not getting paid by the whistle.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: BRHogfan on March 22, 2017, 01:00:26 pm
Wow  :o

UNC and UCLA tend not to foul a lot in general.  I do think this does suggest the refs are allowing more physical play in the tournament.  Someone would need to take out end of game fouling to get a little more accuracy.  Most of the R32 winners were close to or below their season avg of fouling frequency.  Losers were close to their avg or above with few exceptions. 

The ACC has been a less physical conference by their own preference.  Years ago Dean went after Barnes when he was at Clemson for physical play.  Syracuse tends not to foul because of their zone.  ND is a finesse team and not surprising a very physical team in WV eliminated them with the officiating allowing more physical play.  Thought Louisville might change the culture a little of the ACC. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

BRHogfan

Quote from: hogsanity on March 22, 2017, 02:43:37 pm
At least what I post pertains the the OP, not some weird stalking crap like yours. It actually goes right to why many teams are having games under their season foul numbers, because the refs are not calling as tightly as they did in the regular season. And, if the numbers were up, it would be because they are calling it tighter.

Which actually bring about the question of WHY would they call the regular season tighter than the NCAAT? They are not getting paid by the whistle.

For those trying to support a refs decide games/games are rigged narrative, the numbers kind of pan out that way don't they?

Or if it's just in the NCAA tournament, everyone is playing their absolute best ball and have corrected earlier problems, then you can explain it away.  It's hard to say that teams are playing against lower competition, because UNC did some things in that game they haven't been able to do all season even when they played ACC Bottom Feeders like NC State and Boston College.  Now maybe in those games, they played more of the bench and those players committed all the fouls that players like Berry and Meeks didn't.

The stats prove out that either that the refs either favored the UNC defense or the UNC defense played their absolute best game of the season.   

hogsanity

Quote from: BRHogfan on March 22, 2017, 02:57:41 pm
For those trying to support a refs decide games/games are rigged narrative, the numbers kind of pan out that way don't they?

Or if it's just in the NCAA tournament, everyone is playing their absolute best ball and have corrected earlier problems, then you can explain it away.  It's hard to say that teams are playing against lower competition, because UNC did some things in that game they haven't been able to do all season even when they played ACC Bottom Feeders like NC State and Boston College.  Now maybe in those games, they played more of the bench and those players committed all the fouls that players like Berry and Meeks didn't.

The stats prove out that either that the refs either favored the UNC defense or the UNC defense played their absolute best game of the season.   

Except UNC is far from the only team with numbers below their normal foul levels as your numbers in only a few games pointed out. Of the 48 games played so far, how many teams had fouls per defensive possession lower than their season averages?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

BRHogfan

Quote from: hogsanity on March 22, 2017, 03:10:37 pm
Except UNC is far from the only team with numbers below their normal foul levels as your numbers in only a few games pointed out. Of the 48 games played so far, how many teams had fouls per defensive possession lower than their season averages?

Well, if all other teams except Arkansas had fouls per defensive possession lower than their season averages, what would that prove? 

hogsanity

Quote from: BRHogfan on March 22, 2017, 03:16:33 pm
Well, if all other teams except Arkansas had fouls per defensive possession lower than their season averages, what would that prove? 

None of it proves anything, but the numbers in your op show a trend, based on the data given, that teams are not being called for as many fouls as they were during the regular season.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

JHGiunta

Quote from: hogsanity on March 22, 2017, 03:26:01 pm
None of it proves anything, but the numbers in your op show a trend, based on the data given, that teams are not being called for as many fouls as they were during the regular season.

Except Arkansas!  I'm not saying we didn't foul, I'm not saying those blown calls or no-calls cost us the game, but what I am saying is that if we fouled 18 times (I took 2 away for stopping the clock) then UNC fouled that much too. We were both being very aggressive and I can't foresee them being so much cleaner in their reaching, swiping and bodying. I saw Hannah's hit the court a couple times in the lane and I saw them get bumped and the foul get called. I can remember one particular play where Thompson stood straight up and the guy initiated contact with him and missed the shot. Thompson got the rebound and was turning to dish the outlet pass and magically the whistle was blown. Literally like a second after the play. I can also, in addition to the obvious missed calls at the end of the game, remember a shot clock violation on us that was not a shot clock violation. It so happens that Beard clearly had 1 sec on the clock when he shot, it hit the rim, again I believe Thompson had the rebound and was going back up with it. Whistle!!!!   I never post because it's pointless but this game was not called equally on both ends for the whole of the game and the last few minutes was the most blatant disregard for the profession of refereeing that I have ever seen in an NCAA game. I am also still able to see that Arkansas should have had a better offensive game plan when UNC extended their D on the last few possessions. We quit being aggressive and UNC only had 3 fouls and could be as aggressive as they wanted. I truly believe we spent so much energy coming back that when we got the lead we took our foot off the gas to avoid complete breakdown. Our guys were cramping and exhausted. It showed. They didn't weather it and UNC took advantage of horrible calls.

lasthog

Quote from: hogsanity on March 22, 2017, 03:26:01 pm
None of it proves anything, but the numbers in your op show a trend, based on the data given, that teams are not being called for as many fouls as they were during the regular season.

Sir, there is not likely to be a smoking gun found that will "prove" any side of this dispute, i.e., confessions of corruption by refs, videos of money changing hands, red-headed hookers leaving official's hotel rooms, etc.

However, the circumstantial evidence is strongly favoring the likelihood that the game was called in favor of UNC for some reason. As far as the  motivation for this, many theories have been proffered.

There is a difference between reasonable doubt and absence of doubt. You or others may choose to be a doubting Thomas, but the preponderance of evidence points to obvious bias in favor of UNC.

The bell is not going to be unrung. UNC moved on and that is that.

But that doesn't mean that we have to like it.

HogBreath

Quote from: JHGiunta on March 22, 2017, 04:01:07 pm
Except Arkansas!  I'm not saying we didn't foul, I'm not saying those blown calls or no-calls cost us the game, but what I am saying is that if we fouled 18 times (I took 2 away for stopping the clock) then UNC fouled that much too. We were both being very aggressive and I can't foresee them being so much cleaner in their reaching, swiping and bodying. I saw Hannah's hit the court a couple times in the lane and I saw them get bumped and the foul get called. I can remember one particular play where Thompson stood straight up and the guy initiated contact with him and missed the shot. Thompson got the rebound and was turning to dish the outlet pass and magically the whistle was blown. Literally like a second after the play. I can also, in addition to the obvious missed calls at the end of the game, remember a shot clock violation on us that was not a shot clock violation. It so happens that Beard clearly had 1 sec on the clock when he shot, it hit the rim, again I believe Thompson had the rebound and was going back up with it. Whistle!!!!   I never post because it's pointless but this game was not called equally on both ends for the whole of the game and the last few minutes was the most blatant disregard for the profession of refereeing that I have ever seen in an NCAA game. I am also still able to see that Arkansas should have had a better offensive game plan when UNC extended their D on the last few possessions. We quit being aggressive and UNC only had 3 fouls and could be as aggressive as they wanted. I truly believe we spent so much energy coming back that when we got the lead we took our foot off the gas to avoid complete breakdown. Our guys were cramping and exhausted. It showed. They didn't weather it and UNC took advantage of horrible calls.

No question the officiating was one sided against us in that UNC game.

I recall a couple of over the backs I just knew they'd call...they didn't.
I said...LSU has often been an overrated team.

That ignoramus Draconian Sanctions said..if we're overrated, why are we ranked higher than you are?

ChicoHog

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on March 22, 2017, 02:49:58 pm
UNC and UCLA tend not to foul a lot in general.  I do think this does suggest the refs are allowing more physical play in the tournament.  Someone would need to take out end of game fouling to get a little more accuracy.  Most of the R32 winners were close to or below their season avg of fouling frequency.  Losers were close to their avg or above with few exceptions. 

The ACC has been a less physical conference by their own preference.  Years ago Dean went after Barnes when he was at Clemson for physical play.  Syracuse tends not to foul because of their zone.  ND is a finesse team and not surprising a very physical team in WV eliminated them with the officiating allowing more physical play.  Thought Louisville might change the culture a little of the ACC. 
In football I dislike the finesse teams and like the physical, smash mouth type teams.  In basketball I dislike the physical, grabbing, hand checking type teams and like the finesse teams that rarely foul and rarely turn it over.  I just realized my inconsistencies!

In all seriousness the Hogs have always fouled a lot under Richardson and Anderson.  I was surprised the difference between us and the opponents this season was so small it's practically nothing.  I hope we continue that trend in the future.  Especially the stupid fouls 35 feet from the basket. Those drive me nuts as they are completely unacceptable. 

 

BRHogfan

It is technically possible that UNC played their absolute best game of the season defensively.

scorekeeper

Very good information by the OP. Although the data only pisses me off because we lost by 7 and they shot 25 free throws to our 8. We missed an opportunity for approx 8-10 points from free throws. It is hard to beat 8.
If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score?

niels_boar

March 23, 2017, 11:42:58 am #26 Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 12:10:37 pm by niels_boar
UNC was among the national leaders in fouling least, but they also were in the bottom half of the nation in forcing TOs.  They aren't a team that you would expect to force us into 18 TOs in 73 possessions.  We were among the national leaders in not turning the ball over, and it was one of their highest forced TO rates of the season.  Williams clearly notched up the aggressiveness of their defense against us.  Passive defense hasn't fared well against us the last few years because we have good shot selection and efficient perimeter shooters. 

UNC's opponents shot 8 or fewer FTAs in only 4 ACC games this season.  A couple of those games were 60 possessions or less.  In fact, the Arkansas game was the only time all season that UNC was 7+ possessions per PF.  It was their lowest foul rate of the season. In those games their opponents generally shot a higher percentage of trey attempts and committed fewer TOs than Arkansas did, implying the defense was more passive and the offense more perimeter oriented. 

It was our second highest TO rate of the season.  The only game in which we turned the ball over more frequently was at Minnesota in our fourth game.  On their homecourt the Golfers had to fouls us twice as often as UNC did to accomplish that.  The only game in which our opponents fouled less often was Vandy in BWA.  Vandy doesn't pressure, and they had depth problems.

In conclusion a team that doesn't pressure as a habit managed to force us into one of our worst ballhandling games of the season while having their least fouly game of the season and one of the least fouly games of any of our opponents.  Only a modest 35% of our attempts were treys.  Our center was second on the team in FGAs.

It's like the officials decided before the game that UNC does not foul and Arkansas does. Their lying eyes be darned.
The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous a weapon today as in Sampson's time.

ErieHog

Its our second best FT shooting season ever, not our best.

That honor goes to 1961-1962.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

BRHogfan

Quote from: ErieHog on March 23, 2017, 11:56:21 am
Its our second best FT shooting season ever, not our best.

That honor goes to 1961-1962.

Right, you got me with that on another thread after I had already made this one, I will edit.

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

niels_boar

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on March 23, 2017, 08:08:28 pm
Oregon Michigan only 23 FTAs.   7 For Michigan.

Both teams are in the top 25 in least fouls per possession, as well as at the bottom of the nation in FTAs per offensive play (Oregon-#175, Michigan - #275). Furthermore, both coaches effectively shortened their rotations to 6 players.   There were also only a total of 8 ORebs and 13 TOs in the game.  They played 5-on-5 patty cake for 40 minutes.  That's not much of an outlier.
The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous a weapon today as in Sampson's time.

bphi11ips

Good work by the OP.  No question the officials are letting teams play this year.  Also no question the officiating in the Arkansas UNC game failed the eye test.  Hog fans aren't the only ones talking about it.

The real problem is that officiating bias is so predictable.  Just like seeding bias. Bias is well recognized by fans and media. It has been going on for generations in the tournament. It undermines the integrity of the tournament, perpetuates the success of NCAA darlings by creating built-in recruiting advantages, and punishes players in the rest of the field.

If you're on the outside looking in, bias in the tournament is just one of those reminders that life isn't fair. It sucks but you move on.  At least for the fans it's just a game.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

WorfHog

I agree, it's a perpetuating cycle. The best teams get the best players and the best officiating and win championships. Big part of why college basketball has been in decline since the 90's.

The network execs only want to see a Big East team, Kansas, UK, Duke and UNC play each other OVER AND OVER again so they can all drool over the players they're getting and have a giant circle jerk.

hogsanity

Quote from: WorfHog on March 25, 2017, 12:17:37 pm
I agree, it's a perpetuating cycle. The best teams get the best players and the best officiating and win championships. Big part of why college basketball has been in decline since the 90's.

The network execs only want to see a Big East team, Kansas, UK, Duke and UNC play each other OVER AND OVER again so they can all drool over the players they're getting and have a giant circle jerk.

Well, tv execs want teams that draw eyeballs. In Basketball that means teams from large tv markets, or perennial powers like NC/Duke/KY, or cinderella stories.

Their worst night mare this year would be a SC/Oregon final because outside of SC & Oregon, no one cares. Gonzaga /Oregon would only be slightly better. At least if NC makes the final some people will tune in hoping NC loses.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

BRHogfan

So do you think its harder to referee when your more familiar with one team over another?

hogsanity

Quote from: BRHogfan on March 27, 2017, 01:35:49 pm
So do you think its harder to referee when your more familiar with one team over another?

I can't say because the most I ever had a team was 4 times last season, and doing 3 or 4 assignments a week, they all just ran together for me.

I think it could be good or bad. If I know a particular player reaches out toward the ball handler alot but never actually touches them, I know not to be too quick with the whistle where a ref never seeing that before might call something. But on the flip side if I know a player likes to poke shooters in the leg when they shoot, I may start looking for that which then takes my eyes off the arm or whatever I should be watching ( depending on where I am on the court ).

Again, as I have said before though, calling 2a ball in Arkansas is a lot different than calling at the top of D1.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Biggus Piggus

NCAA Tournament game officials are looking for touch fouls around the basketball and excusing heavy contact in the lane. They are penalizing teams that go for steals and rewarding teams that play conventional position defense, even if they are all over ballhandlers.

The referees are trying to punish reaching on defense. They spend most of their time looking for it, when a team like Arkansas is involved. North Carolina defenders might have their hands on your back or your shoulder or your arm, but they are working for position not reaching. It's a deliberate bias. They've been told to call it that way.
[CENSORED]!

hogsanity

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on March 27, 2017, 02:53:55 pm
NCAA Tournament game officials are looking for touch fouls around the basketball and excusing heavy contact in the lane. They are penalizing teams that go for steals and rewarding teams that play conventional position defense, even if they are all over ballhandlers.

The referees are trying to punish reaching on defense. They spend most of their time looking for it, when a team like Arkansas is involved. North Carolina defenders might have their hands on your back or your shoulder or your arm, but they are working for position not reaching. It's a deliberate bias. They've been told to call it that way.

That is a part of the NBAing of college basketball and i have talked about that for years.  I was at the MAvs game last Thur and that is how NBA games are called. They look like WWE matches in the lane, but any little touch on the perimeter brought a whistle.

I will ask though, if they are going to let the offense catch the ball 12 feet from the basket, then "back" their way down by bumping, pushing with their back side, why shouldn't the D get to use contact as well?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

ChicoHog

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on March 27, 2017, 02:53:55 pm
NCAA Tournament game officials are looking for touch fouls around the basketball and excusing heavy contact in the lane. They are penalizing teams that go for steals and rewarding teams that play conventional position defense, even if they are all over ballhandlers.

The referees are trying to punish reaching on defense. They spend most of their time looking for it, when a team like Arkansas is involved. North Carolina defenders might have their hands on your back or your shoulder or your arm, but they are working for position not reaching. It's a deliberate bias. They've been told to call it that way.
When playing the game myself for a long time that's exactly the way I like the game officiated.  I don't care if there is bumping underneath, especially away from the ball.  When there is obvious reaching and hacking on the ball on the perimeter where it is easy to see it's an obvious call call for the ref.  I would guess 4 out of 5 times or maybe even more that when a defensive player reaches in to steal a ball on the perimeter he will foul the offensive player if he steals the ball.  It's just too hard to do it cleanly very often unless it's a poor ball handler.  I't so much smarter to play solid defense, keep the man in front of you and make him work hard for his shot.   

hogsanity

Quote from: ChicoHog on March 27, 2017, 11:37:48 pm
When playing the game myself for a long time that's exactly the way I like the game officiated.  I don't care if there is bumping underneath, especially away from the ball.  When there is obvious reaching and hacking on the ball on the perimeter where it is easy to see it's an obvious call call for the ref.  I would guess 4 out of 5 times or maybe even more that when a defensive player reaches in to steal a ball on the perimeter he will foul the offensive player if he steals the ball.  It's just too hard to do it cleanly very often unless it's a poor ball handler.  I't so much smarter to play solid defense, keep the man in front of you and make him work hard for his shot.   


But that kind of officiating keeps some teams from "playing their game", yet it is exactly how most basketball fans want the game called, and how a vast majority of those who play/played the game at any level want it called. 
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE