Next Year

[lefty08]

You are a part of the problem with that line of thinking.  You expect a single freshman to come in and protect the rim, in the SEC.  He will probably face some foul trouble learning to play at the collegiate level.  You build up your expectations on a freshman and don't let the game actually come to the kid.  Loo at what moses did from a freshman to a senior.  He learned to play without being in foul trouble, he learned an shot and touch on the offensive side of the ball, and became a defensive beast.  I don't think that will be replaced by the start of the SEC season next year.  and that is NOT  knock on Gafford at all.

It's possible Gafford is that good. Same could be said for you being part of the problem, setting the bar low

[Big Nasty 34]

Surprised to see the negativity. Barring any stupid departures, I see us being a higher seed in the NCAA tourney with a hopeful Sweet 16+ run. We may have 1-2 more losses (of course nobody has seen a schedule) but will have a higher RPI and seed. We know we play at least a couple legit teams in the PK event, and I'm sure will have a couple other decent non-conference games. Throw in a better SEC and we will have a solid schedule with also better marquee wins.

College basketball is a guards game. We saw what having 3 guards that could get 15+ a game, at any time, would do for a team. Next year, Barford and Macon will probably average close to 18 PPG and will be able to carry us in most early games. They will be in year 2 of D1 ball, so we shouldn't see the stupid mistakes/inconsistencies that we saw early on.

As far as replacing Moses, although Trey won't average as many points as Moses did, he will help the offense with his great passing ability and IQ. Moses took a lot of questionable shots this year and that's something you won't see Trey do. Also, it appears that Gafford will be able to hold his own on the boards and defensively. He may not be as good as Moses defensively, but could probably be close to him on the boards. Gafford is taller, longer, and seems to have much better technique that will translate to the next level.

Personally, I think we will miss Manny most of all. His IQ and intangibles were very underrated. Who can step in to fill that role? I'm hoping Hall is that type of a player, but will he be from day 1?

We should be better defensively given the length that we are adding in this class. We should really be able to blow some folks out if refs allow our athletes to play defense. Put Garland and Hall in transition with Barford and/or Macon and watch out!

Be excited hog fans. Fill up the Bud early and often!

[Youngsta71701]

You are a part of the problem with that line of thinking.  You expect a single freshman to come in and protect the rim, in the SEC.  He will probably face some foul trouble learning to play at the collegiate level.  You build up your expectations on a freshman and don't let the game actually come to the kid.  Loo at what moses did from a freshman to a senior.  He learned to play without being in foul trouble, he learned an shot and touch on the offensive side of the ball, and became a defensive beast.  I don't think that will be replaced by the start of the SEC season next year.  and that is NOT  knock on Gafford at all.

Exactly how many years of organized basketball did Kingsley play before going to college? Now compare that to Gafford and you'll have your answer. Gafford has been playing organized basketball almost his whole life. While Kingsley has only been playing since 2009. He grew up playing soccer. Big difference my friend.

http://teamnigeriabasketball.com/moses-kingsley-commits-to-arkansas/

[Hollywood870]

It's possible Gafford is that good. Same could be said for you being part of the problem, setting the bar low

Bring him along all year and then see what he looks like around Tourney time. He excels at put backs off the rim. That's raw skill points. Some of those will help.

[onebadrubi]

Exactly how many years of organized basketball did Kingsley play before going to college? Now compare that to Gafford and you'll have your answer. Gafford has been playing organized basketball almost his whole life. While Kingsley has only been playing since 2009. He grew up playing soccer. Big difference my friend.

http://teamnigeriabasketball.com/moses-kingsley-commits-to-arkansas/

Ok then, lets put all the weight of next season on Gafford coming in and giving us the same stats, effort, leadership, and game changing blocks.  If he is even one step off then we can blame him for the failure of the team, sounds like a fair assessment!  Not! 

You fail to recognize the only reason we beat Seton Hall is Kingsleys domination.  I don't expect Gafford to have that capability next year, I am sorry that offends some of you around here.  I think it is un fair of Gafford to expect that of him as well, now if he comes in and does then that is GREAT!  But I would not lay that weight on his shoulders nor does he deserve that. 

If you want to compare Moses 4th year as a Hog vs what should be Gaffords first year of playing division 1 basketball then you are just naive.  It's not the same for infinite reasons. You place Moses on this team next year and we are a sweet 16 team from day one and ranked in the top 25 start of the season. 

[311Hog]

Ok then, lets put all the weight of next season on Gafford coming in and giving us the same stats, effort, leadership, and game changing blocks.  If he is even one step off then we can blame him for the failure of the team, sounds like a fair assessment!  Not! 

You fail to recognize the only reason we beat Seton Hall is Kingsleys domination.  I don't expect Gafford to have that capability next year, I am sorry that offends some of you around here.  I think it is un fair of Gafford to expect that of him as well, now if he comes in and does then that is GREAT!  But I would not lay that weight on his shoulders nor does he deserve that. 

If you want to compare Moses 4th year as a Hog vs what should be Gaffords first year of playing division 1 basketball then you are just naive.  It's not the same for infinite reasons. You place Moses on this team next year and we are a sweet 16 team from day one and ranked in the top 25 start of the season. 

hmm i don't think people are saying that.  I think people are expecting Gafford to be "further along" in his development than Moses as a Freshman because he has been playing Basketball his whole life, and the 2 players he is coming in with he is very familiar with.  Gafford won't be asked to carry all that much of a load as he has other big men on the team and alot of SR guard leadership (you would assume).

I think Gafford will be a different type of player than Moses but only slightly.  I think Gafford will rebound better, and maybe block shots a little less that Moses.

Moses over time developed the jumper, Gafford may have that he may not i do not know, but it still doesn't change my excitement over the possibilities of next year's team.

[navyhog24]

Surprised to see the negativity. Barring any stupid departures

https://twitter.com/YoD4__/status/844218846877761541

[niels_boar]

You could see Kingsley coming, even as a sophomore; 

Developmentally, it isn't hard to see where most of this roster is going to be. 

Its worth remembering that Gafford and Kingsley had some eerie parallels, when it came to player evals--  ESPN's Top 100 service pegs them both at #43 in their respective classes-- with overall ratings of an identical 88.

Kingsley didn't exactly blow things up out of the gate here, so let's slow the roll on these sky high expectations of Gafford to suddenly come in and play All-SEC defense and POTY candidate level overall as a freshman.

That's revisionist on Kingsley. His numbers took a step back as a soph from his frosh year.  After a poor showing in preseason as a junior, the big question in November was whether we could get any points at all from the frontline.  There was no talk about him landing on the list of best centers in the nation at the end of the year. 

It seems like recently we usually have at least one returning player that takes a bigger leap than we expect year over year when given an opportunity at a bigger role.  Madden, Qualls, Durham, Kingsley, and Bell fit into that category.  For that matter Dusty was far better than could have been necessarily projected from his work at Texas Tech.  Hence, I totally reject the notion "that it isn't hard to see where most of this roster is going to be".  Predictions are difficult, especially about the future. 

I wasn't projecting Gafford as anything.  In fact, my comment about frosh was not a specific reference to Gafford.  It might be one of the other guys.  It might be none of them.  It's an unknown.  Remember it was Beard as a frosh that solidified the starting lineup for the run of the Qualls-Portis team.  A frosh doesn't have to be an All-SEC player to fill a crucial need to put a roster over the top. 

We've got high-end scorers - Barford and Macon - that are likely to be even better next season.  Beard is capable of providing double-figures in many games.  Jones is an unknown with seemingly high ceiling.  Thompson can definitely score more than he has to this point.  He's likely to spend a lot of time as point center, leaving the middle open for slashers.  That might be ideal for guys like Bailey, Hall, or Garland.  Hazen? Who knows? Thomas and/or Cook could be much better on O with more regular opportunities. I think the staff will put together a good offense from what we have.  They have done it three years in a row.  I doubt we will require a lot of O from Gafford. It's a bonus if he provides it.

Defense is the biggest concern.  We lose our two best defensive players.  However, we replace Dusty and Manny with bigger, faster athletes.  We might able to compensate for less athleticism at the five with more on the wing.  Overall team speed should improve next season.  What we need from Gafford is rim protection.  A raw Kingsley actually blocked shots at higher rate as frosh than as a senior and only fouled slightly more often (9 minutes per foul versus 10 minutes).  His highest foul rate was as a soph (7 minutes per foul).

It's obviously foolish to assume everything will break our way in terms of player development.  All I'm saying is that the unknowns create a high variance in possibilities with tails in both directions.  Our guards may limit the floor.  It's pretty much a universal human condition to underestimate error bars in the face of incomplete information.

[Youngsta71701]

Ok then, lets put all the weight of next season on Gafford coming in and giving us the same stats, effort, leadership, and game changing blocks.  If he is even one step off then we can blame him for the failure of the team, sounds like a fair assessment!  Not! 

You fail to recognize the only reason we beat Seton Hall is Kingsleys domination.  I don't expect Gafford to have that capability next year, I am sorry that offends some of you around here.  I think it is un fair of Gafford to expect that of him as well, now if he comes in and does then that is GREAT!  But I would not lay that weight on his shoulders nor does he deserve that. 

If you want to compare Moses 4th year as a Hog vs what should be Gaffords first year of playing division 1 basketball then you are just naive.  It's not the same for infinite reasons. You place Moses on this team next year and we are a sweet 16 team from day one and ranked in the top 25 start of the season.

Who said anything about putting all the weight on him. Don't twist my words. I believe in what he can do. Most of the weight will be on our guards to carry the team next year. All he has to do is the dirty work. You fail to realize how good he is at blocking shots and rebounding. We don't need him to score 20 for us to win.

[Youngsta71701]

hmm i don't think people are saying that.  I think people are expecting Gafford to be "further along" in his development than Moses as a Freshman because he has been playing Basketball his whole life, and the 2 players he is coming in with he is very familiar with.  Gafford won't be asked to carry all that much of a load as he has other big men on the team and alot of SR guard leadership (you would assume).

I think Gafford will be a different type of player than Moses but only slightly.  I think Gafford will rebound better, and maybe block shots a little less that Moses.

Moses over time developed the jumper, Gafford may have that he may not i do not know, but it still doesn't change my excitement over the possibilities of next year's team.

Exactly, I'm simply saying that Gafford will come in more ready to contribute as a freshman than Moses was and did when he was a freshman.

[onebadrubi]

Exactly, I'm simply saying that Gafford will come in more ready to contribute as a freshman than Moses was and did when he was a freshman.

That's pretty accurate.  But we are losing a senior big which has come a long way.  People are trying to draw conclusions for next year off of this years success.  Next year is a different team being led by completely different skill positions.  We will get better in one area and become extremely green in another.  Gafford will be better than Moses was as a freshman, sure!  That's not what we need next year though.  We are a Moses next year away from a legit contender in my opinion.  (Assuming no early departures). 


Gafford is our only banger/rim playing big man next year, sadly.   I love thompsons effort this year and he will get better, but guys like saiz style players will hurt us tremendously depending on Thompson.  And again we are back at the point I refuse to put gafford in this equation till he steps on campus. 

[Youngsta71701]

That's pretty accurate.  But we are losing a senior big which has come a long way.  People are trying to draw conclusions for next year off of this years success.  Next year is a different team being led by completely different skill positions.  We will get better in one area and become extremely green in another.  Gafford will be better than Moses was as a freshman, sure!  That's not what we need next year though.  We are a Moses next year away from a legit contender in my opinion.  (Assuming no early departures). 


Gafford is our only banger/rim playing big man next year, sadly.   I love thompsons effort this year and he will get better, but guys like saiz style players will hurt us tremendously depending on Thompson.  And again we are back at the point I refuse to put gafford in this equation till he steps on campus.

Thompson is a pretty good banger also when they let him play and not call a bunch of ticky tack fouls against him. I think Thompson did a pretty good job on Saiz this year. As a matter of fact Saiz had a hard time doing anything against him and Moses.

[onebadrubi]

Thompson is a pretty good banger also when they let him play and not call a bunch of ticky tack fouls against him. I think Thompson did a pretty good job on Saiz this year. As a matter of fact Saiz had a hard time doing anything against him and Moses.

From memory he had a double double and like 20 rebounds.  Saiz and Thompson weren't often matched up, it was Moses mainly matched up on him. 

[hview]

Wonder if these is another junior college BIG available. Perhaps sign another BIG, rather than a PG or a another wing player.

[ErieHog]

hmm i don't think people are saying that.  I think people are expecting Gafford to be "further along" in his development than Moses as a Freshman because he has been playing Basketball his whole life, and the 2 players he is coming in with he is very familiar with.  Gafford won't be asked to carry all that much of a load as he has other big men on the team and alot of SR guard leadership (you would assume).

I think Gafford will be a different type of player than Moses but only slightly.  I think Gafford will rebound better, and maybe block shots a little less that Moses.

Moses over time developed the jumper, Gafford may have that he may not i do not know, but it still doesn't change my excitement over the possibilities of next year's team.

There's absolutely no reason to expect that playing more years against athletically inferior competition is going to have him considerably more seasoned than Kingsley was.

Neither one was ever going to have a serious issue with dominating bad athletes--  but learning to play against actual competition that has actual talent, on a night-in-night out basis, some of which has had years to mature physically and in system understanding,  is only something that time can provide.

Maybe Gafford is a super effective rebounder.  Maybe he catches on to defense faster than the average guy--  but that is still a huge, huge amount to hinge on one player's ability to step in Day 1, and get the job done.

He's not a One and Done candidate--  his talent isn't clearly transcendent at this stage.   He's going to have to work to become a complete college basketball player, and the depth of the assumption that he's not just going to be complete, but be a really good one from day 1, is pretty astonishing.

[Youngsta71701]

From memory he had a double double and like 20 rebounds.  Saiz and Thompson weren't often matched up, it was Moses mainly matched up on him.

Moses and Thompson were both matched up with him quite a bit. Game 1 Moses 28 minutes and Trey 23 minutes. Game 2 Moses 26 minutes and Trey 25 minutes. They played together at times during those two games and they both shared the load on Saiz.

Game 1 during conference play he had 8 points, 2-13 from the field and 5 rebounds. 2 offensive and 3 defensive.
Game 2 SEC tournament game he had 9 points, 4-16 from the field but he did have 17 rebounds. 11 defensive and 6 offensive.
No double doubles...

We held him to an average of 8.5 points and 11 rebounds thru 2 games. Not bad at all with Trey holding him just as much as Moses. If you watched the game you would see how good of a job Trey did on him. Saiz had a hard time pushing him around and getting position. Even the announcers said something about that in both games.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400910600
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400945812

[Big Nasty 34]

There's absolutely no reason to expect that playing more years against athletically inferior competition is going to have him considerably more seasoned than Kingsley was.

Neither one was ever going to have a serious issue with dominating bad athletes--  but learning to play against actual competition that has actual talent, on a night-in-night out basis, some of which has had years to mature physically and in system understanding,  is only something that time can provide.

Maybe Gafford is a super effective rebounder.  Maybe he catches on to defense faster than the average guy--  but that is still a huge, huge amount to hinge on one player's ability to step in Day 1, and get the job done.

He's not a One and Done candidate--  his talent isn't clearly transcendent at this stage.   He's going to have to work to become a complete college basketball player, and the depth of the assumption that he's not just going to be complete, but be a really good one from day 1, is pretty astonishing.

I think most people can agree that Gafford is much more refined as a basketball player than Moses was at the same stage. Moses relied a lot on pure athleticism early on, as he learned to play the game at a higher level. Gafford should be able to hold his own defensively and on the boards due to size, athleticism, and his better basketball skills compared to Moses.

We got 14.4 PPG 11 RPG and 3.4 BPG between Moses and Trey this year. I know that stats don't tell the whole story, but I think it's very realistic for Trey and Gafford to reach those combined numbers this year. Add in more production from the 4 spot and we won't be as bad off as it seems at the 4-5 spots.

[ErieHog]

I think most people can agree that Gafford is much more refined as a basketball player than Moses was at the same stage. Moses relied a lot on pure athleticism early on, as he learned to play the game at a higher level. Gafford should be able to hold his own defensively and on the boards due to size, athleticism, and his better basketball skills compared to Moses.

We got 14.4 PPG 11 RPG and 3.4 BPG between Moses and Trey this year. I know that stats don't tell the whole story, but I think it's very realistic for Trey and Gafford to reach those combined numbers this year. Add in more production from the 4 spot and we won't be as bad off as it seems at the 4-5 spots.

I think its going to be a huge stretch, particularly on the boards and defensively.   And it won't just be the counting stats, it'll be the amount of shot altering  behind the defense when teams get to the rim, and the number of bodies we have that can bang against the big physical squads.

I'd expect more like 14/9/1  next year, with maybe some bump in floor spacing, but  I don't look for the 4 to solve a bunch of problems next year.

[311Hog]

I think one thing Gafford will have going for him and the other 2 freshman as well, is the SR laden back court.  I mean Jabril made a big jump between JUCO JR year and his SR year which had an impact on Moses.

For Gafford and Co. he will be stepping into (hopefully) Barford and Macon's 2nd year after JUCO which most would agree will have their biggest jump and best season (even though this past season was pretty good).  Add to the mix hopefully a Beard with his head on straight, and IMHO that is about the best we could ask for.  Exp guards and Young talented frontcourt "typically" has success in the tourney. Because rarely do you have both exp guards and frontcourt.