Is Fortson playing against Baylor?

[razorpimp]

He better freakin' be or we will def. lose.

So pathetic how John Pelphrey is so helpless he is basically throwing our preseason away for reasons beyond even himself.

What a freakin' joke. If he's not back by the Baylor game, I freakin' give up. This vagueness is beyond tiresome.

How is he throwing away the preseason?  He is doing what is best for the team and the player, that is my opinion.

[heathtits]

It should be clear to who, exactly? And by clear, you mean you feel as if you have the right to know what Courtney Fortson has done?

And are you certain it's unprecendented? Do you feel Pel's superiors feel it is absurd? If so, why?

You think Jeff Long and co. feel the public needs to know who exactly is issuing suspensions to whomever, even if it isn't John Pelphrey? Why exactly?

Yes, I'm fairly certain a 12 game suspension with no actual reason whatsoever is completely unprecedented. If you can find a situation like this anywhere else, especially after the unprecedented amount of turnover and off the court problems, I'd love to hear about it.

So to simplify things, Yes, Yes, Yes because he is making 750k and recruited Fortson, and No obviously they don't but I think the fans should know and also know a time table.

They've gone all Soviet Union/China and basically shafted Fortson to Siberia. I'm a fan of due-process and a fairly translucent program.

The quieter things are, the more shady/out of control things look.

[heathtits]

How is he throwing away the preseason?  He is doing what is best for the team and the player, that is my opinion.

You do realize what we now have to do to be eligible for the post season? So yes, barring a miraculous SEC program, he has thrown away our preseason.

Best for the team? Can you at least clarify who you think is doing the best for the team? Is it Long or Pelphrey?

If you are saying that under the assumption that the suspension is up to JP, then disregard my answer and I won't respond until you become more informed.

[HawgAdvocate]

Yes, I'm fairly certain a 12 game suspension with no actual reason whatsoever is completely unprecedented. If you can find a situation like this anywhere else, especially after the unprecedented amount of turnover and off the court problems, I'd love to hear about it.

So to simplify things, Yes, Yes, Yes because he is making 750k and recruited Fortson, and No obviously they don't but I think the fans should know and also know a time table.

They've gone all Soviet Union/China and basically shafted Fortson to Siberia. I'm a fan of due-process and a fairly translucent program.

The quieter things are, the more shady/out of control things look.

Why do you think he's been suspended without reason? You should know better. Perhaps the reason is something that shouldn't be made public (hint, hint).

And if you believe that the fans deserve to know everything (private, illegal, etc), despite what Long wishes, shouldn't you be directly blaming Long and not Pel for this suspension being so hush hush?

Do you think Fortson feels this entire process has been unfair to the scale you're putting it on? I don't see him jumping ship or crying foul.

As for that "fairly translucent program" you're seeking, good luck with that.

[pick_DA_EAGLES]

As long as you watch it on TV and make sure to eat plenty of pop corn.

did you not read the list of things i have going on with christmas and b-days,(all 3 are boys) isnt any popcorn in this house. 

[heathtits]

Why do you think he's been suspended without reason? You should know better. Perhaps the reason is something that shouldn't be made public (hint, hint).

Beyond killing someone, what is so bad that couldn't be made public? Everyone knows he has stolen things, he smokes things, he twitters things and he doesn't like to go to class, so what could it possibly be?

And yes, I'm blaming Long too.

I'm just sick of the whole thing, and you asking me further questions isn't really going to answer anything or change my frustration.

I'm fed up with this double standard of pretending things. Last year we were a program with ZERO integrity and this year we are suddenly a program who sacrifices unprecedented home non conference losses for the very thing that ruined the team last year? It doesn't add up to me.

I don't get it, but I guess you do since you treat Pelphrey like a toddler who peed his pants or peed in the wrong bathroom. "He'll get it this time around, or maybe the next time, just keep trying!!"

We are letting a coaching staff potty train at the expense of our pride and program. Not cool in my eyes. Glad to know it is with you.

[razorpimp]

You do realize what we now have to do to be eligible for the post season? So yes, barring a miraculous SEC program, he has thrown away our preseason.

Best for the team? Can you at least clarify who you think is doing the best for the team? Is it Long or Pelphrey?

If you are saying that under the assumption that the suspension is up to JP, then disregard my answer and I won't respond until you become more informed.

So you are 100% positive that Long is the only "player" pushing the suspension of Fortson agenda? 

I just do not see Long pushing this suspension....especially if his ultimate goal is to change the direction of the program.  Wouldn't he allow Pel to do what he wants and if/when Fortson messes up again, then pull the plug because of all the on and off court issues with his players....basically give him enough rope to hang himself.

[WilsonHog]

I am a firm believer in "need to know."

As a fan, there are certain things that have no business being public knowledge. Why players are suspended is one of them. That is why to a man coaches fall back on "the matter is being dealt with internally." To be blunt about it, there is a line here. Players, coaches, parents, and administrators are on one side of that line; fans are on the other. Beyond just rank curiosity, why do I need to know the particulars of Fortson's suspension? Why do I need to know anything that occurs in the locker room or the coach's office? From where would such entitlement spring? 

We pay administrators and coaches good money to handle our athletic department. I propose that we either allow them to do so or do away with the positions and save the University a substantial sum of money. 

[thirtythree]

I am a firm believer in "need to know."

As a fan, there are certain things that have no business being public knowledge. Why players are suspended is one of them. That is why to a man coaches fall back on "the matter is being dealt with internally." To be blunt about it, there is a line here. Players, coaches, parents, and administrators are on one side of that line; fans are on the other. Beyond just rank curiosity, why do I need to know the particulars of Fortson's suspension? Why do I need to know anything that occurs in the locker room or the coach's office? From where would such entitlement spring? 

We pay administrators and coaches good money to handle our athletic department. I propose that we either allow them to do so or do away with the positions and save the University a substantial sum of money.

That was very well said. +1.

[labb]

Good post WilsonHog, You could have also added that there are laws that protect some student information from being made public.

[chiefsfan]

at some point as a program you have to make a decision.  Win now or Win right.   Arkansas chose to go about this the right way made the suspensions and sacrificed a winning season

The fans might not like it, but Arkansas is doing things right

If you want to win now you do want Kentucky did, sell your soul for a Final Four team and willingly sacrifice NCAA sanctions to do so

[WilsonHog]

at some point as a program you have to make a decision.  Win now or Win right.   Arkansas chose to go about this the right way made the suspensions and sacrificed a winning season

The fans might not like it, but Arkansas is doing things right

If you want to win now you do want Kentucky did, sell your soul for a Final Four team and willingly sacrifice NCAA sanctions to do so

I find nothing in your post to disagree with. It matters not to me who is making the right calls, so long as the right calls are being made.

[Knot2brite]

It just might be beyond Pel and Long. IT might be the NCAA. One never knows in these uncertain troubling times.

[thirtythree]

at some point as a program you have to make a decision.  Win now or Win right.   Arkansas chose to go about this the right way made the suspensions and sacrificed a winning season

The fans might not like it, but Arkansas is doing things right

If you want to win now you do want Kentucky did, sell your soul for a Final Four team and willingly sacrifice NCAA sanctions to do so

Bingo!

[spanishhawg]

YES, I THINK HE WILL.  GOT TO GET HIM IN THERE BEFORE THE TEXAS GAME.

[Porkatarian]

Why do you think he's been suspended without reason? You should know better. Perhaps the reason is something that shouldn't be made public (hint, hint).

And if you believe that the fans deserve to know everything (private, illegal, etc), despite what Long wishes, shouldn't you be directly blaming Long and not Pel for this suspension being so hush hush?

Do you think Fortson feels this entire process has been unfair to the scale you're putting it on? I don't see him jumping ship or crying foul.

As for that "fairly translucent program" you're seeking, good luck with that.

I sure find myself agreeing with Hawg Advocate a lot here lately.


Porkatarian out...

[Scott7703]

at some point as a program you have to make a decision.  Win now or Win right.   Arkansas chose to go about this the right way made the suspensions and sacrificed a winning season

The fans might not like it, but Arkansas is doing things right

If you want to win now you do want Kentucky did, sell your soul for a Final Four team and willingly sacrifice NCAA sanctions to do so

This is right on....Great post Chiefsfan

[Hoggies]

In the spirit of honesty, let's all admit that if we go on a tear when Fortson comes back all of the problems that people had with him will be a distant memory come March.

not in the least.

[kcstar]

If Courtney did not believe the suspension was just or did not agree with the plan to re-instate him, he would have been gone a long time ago.

[Hawgndaaz]

It just might be beyond Pel and Long. IT might be the NCAA. One never knows in these uncertain troubling times.

If it was the NCAA, it would probably be made public. They love making a ruling then smearing it all over ESPN, message boards, etc.

[Knot2brite]

If it was the NCAA, it would probably be made public. They love making a ruling then smearing it all over ESPN, message boards, etc.

Some things even the NCAA cannot make public due to the fact that these kids are students and they have some civil rights.

[thirtythree]

Okay, maybe I misunderstood what I heard, so someone help me if I did. Justin Acri mentioned a little while ago that there is a feeling that CF won't be back. I didn't hear why that he had that feeling, but he mentioned Jim harris for some reason and I didn't catch that.

[The Boar War]

I still don't understand why Pelphrey doesn't tell the media that "Fortson is out indefinitely and will not be reinstated until he meets the standards set by this coaching staff.  When he is reinstated I will tell you during the press conference preceeding the game.  Until that time no further questions will be fielded concerning Courtney Fortson's absence." 

It wouldn't stop the specultation about his return but you have to admit that it would make John look more competent.

[Porkatarian]

I'm still hearing that he'll be playing against Baylor.


Porkatarian out...

[The Hogfather]

I'm still hearing that he'll be playing against Baylor.


Porkatarian out...

Hope so.

[moses_007]

Yup. I'm upset for him not issuing the suspensions and then playing along as though he had.

It should be clear who is making the suspension and the reasoning behind it at this point.

This is completely unprecedented and has crossed the absurd borderline 5 games ago.

It is completely unprecedented.  I've never heard of a player in any sport being suspended this long. 

[Porkatarian]

In Pel's defense, Jeff Long and John Fagg have been handling the player suspensions since before the season even started.


Porkatarian out...

[HawgAdvocate]

It is completely unprecedented.  I've never heard of a player in any sport being suspended this long. 

Come on now, let's be real here. Beverley was suspended for an entire season without a clear, concise reason being given to John Q. Public.

[The Hogfather]

Come on now, let's be real here. Beverley was suspended for an entire season without a clear, concise reason being given to John Q. Public.

Wha??  I thought he just decided that he wanted to go play in Europe...

[WilsonHog]

Latest from Pel in this morning's Democrat-Gazette was that nothing has changed re: Fortson.

Guess we'll see tomorrow night.

[thirtythree]

I'm still hearing that he'll be playing against Baylor.


Porkatarian out...

Thanks.

[Pork Twain]

In the spirit of honesty, let's all admit that if we go on a tear when Fortson comes back all of the problems that people had with him will be a distant memory come March.

Much like has happened with every other good Arkansas player that has had problems.

[Wild Bill Hog]

Beyond killing someone, what is so bad that couldn't be made public? Everyone knows he has stolen things, he smokes things, he twitters things and he doesn't like to go to class, so what could it possibly be?

And yes, I'm blaming Long too.

I'm just sick of the whole thing, and you asking me further questions isn't really going to answer anything or change my frustration.

I'm fed up with this double standard of pretending things. Last year we were a program with ZERO integrity and this year we are suddenly a program who sacrifices unprecedented home non conference losses for the very thing that ruined the team last year? It doesn't add up to me.

I don't get it, but I guess you do since you treat Pelphrey like a toddler who peed his pants or peed in the wrong bathroom. "He'll get it this time around, or maybe the next time, just keep trying!!"

We are letting a coaching staff potty train at the expense of our pride and program. Not cool in my eyes. Glad to know it is with you.

Goodness, maybe you should let them know how you feel.  As upsetting to them as that would be, I truly believe most would recover with time and therapy.

[Porkem]

Here are Fortson's options:

1.  Sit out the entire year...so he can transfer to a new school  and be immediately eligible in the fall.

2.  Play the rest of the season....get ready for Europe.

3.  Play and be committed to the program....and maybe...with emphasis on "maybe"...have a chance at an NBA career.

Of course, option #3 would require Fortson going to class....which I believe he will.  The question is how long?

I say one year....no way does he stay and graduate.

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

I think Pel's best bet is to not announce when CF is starting or playing.  We will know when Fortson is there in pre-game warmup.  Needs to be handled with as little attention as possible.

[OKhogfan1959]

If Fortson doesn't play Baylor wins. If Fortson plays and is anywhere near in shape we will win.

If anybody can tell me what he really has done please PM me. I have been told a couple of things but it must be worse than what I have been told. No way he's out this long for the things I have been told.

[The Hogfather]

If Fortson doesn't play Baylor wins. If Fortson plays and is anywhere near in shape we will win.

If anybody can tell me what he really has done please PM me. I have been told a couple of things but it must be worse than what I have been told. No way he's out this long for the things I have been told.

He has been practicing with the team for a long time now, so I think he's in fine shape and won't need too much time getting back in the swing of things.

[OKhogfan1959]

If he is and he plays he makes a huge difference. Bryant really showed me some things we have been missing. If he continues and we know Powell is only getting better, we could win some games.

I was really impressed with the way Bryant played! Love this type player.

I don't care what anybody says Courtney Fortson is a difference maker. If he plays he should be a better player than he was last year. Rotnei playing like he is. MW is capable of breaking out. We do need a PG though. Nobles just needs time and would get that if Fortson plays.

[LaBob]

I still don't understand why Pelphrey doesn't tell the media that "Fortson is out indefinitely and will not be reinstated until he meets the standards set by this coaching staff.  When he is reinstated I will tell you during the press conference preceeding the game.  Until that time no further questions will be fielded concerning Courtney Fortson's absence." 

It wouldn't stop the specultation about his return but you have to admit that it would make John look more competent.

BINGO!!! With defenders & critics weighing in, YES he is, NO he isn't, We'll KNOW when we see him...blah, blah... I'm with whoever said "this is ridiculous." Every time this comes up, Pel looks more inept/weak/castrated...

[LRMedHawg]

If he is and he plays he makes a huge difference. Bryant really showed me some things we have been missing. If he continues and we know Powell is only getting better, we could win some games.

I was really impressed with the way Bryant played! Love this type player.

I don't care what anybody says Courtney Fortson is a difference maker. If he plays he should be a better player than he was last year. Rotnei playing like he is. MW is capable of breaking out. We do need a PG though. Nobles just needs time and would get that if Fortson plays.

He will be a difference maker one way or another but he is in no way in shape to play a strong 30 minutes at this point.  It will take him time to catch up to the speed of the game.  He isn't coming in against a weak team.

[TNhawgfan]

I don't know if he will play or not because Fortson is the only scapegoat Pel supporters have right now. From what I read on this board, the pro-Pels (which I am not one of) do so mainly because of "integrity" and this mythical recruiting class of 2011 that will turn the program around. Well what happens when he reinstates CF and the team still sucks...then they put all of their eggs into the recruiting basket that he will never be able to pull off 

[LRMedHawg]

I am a firm believer in "need to know."

As a fan, there are certain things that have no business being public knowledge. Why players are suspended is one of them. That is why to a man coaches fall back on "the matter is being dealt with internally." To be blunt about it, there is a line here. Players, coaches, parents, and administrators are on one side of that line; fans are on the other. Beyond just rank curiosity, why do I need to know the particulars of Fortson's suspension? Why do I need to know anything that occurs in the locker room or the coach's office? From where would such entitlement spring? 

We pay administrators and coaches good money to handle our athletic department. I propose that we either allow them to do so or do away with the positions and save the University a substantial sum of money. 

I do think that the fans have some say in what is going on.  It is their money that directly contributes to our ability to even have a team.  I kind of liken it to investing in Walmart.  As long as Walmart is doing well and generating revenue for their shareholders, then nobody comes asking.  But when Walmart is caught in a heap of bad press and is losing money for their shareholders you better believe that are going to have to start answering questions.  Will they release all information, no, but if they suspended their vice-president indefinately for undisclosed reasons, you better believe that would be unveiled as to why. 

There are certain legal things that protect student athletes and should be honored even though they often aren't.  But I do not give them a free pass to do what they want behind closed doors for the same reason that I don't want our politicians to do their job behind closed doors (even though that is largely what happens I am not happy about it).

[thirtythree]

I don't know if he will play or not because Fortson is the only scapegoat Pel supporters have right now. From what I read on this board, the pro-Pels (which I am not one of) do so mainly because of "integrity" and this mythical recruiting class of 2011 that will turn the program around. Well what happens when he reinstates CF and the team still sucks...then they put all of their eggs into the recruiting basket that he will never be able to pull off

Having a scape goat has nothing to do with supporting the team or the coach. Speaking for myself, i support them because they are Razorbacks and I firmly believe that a coach should be given ample time to get it together. IMO, that has not happened yet. However, CF not being there does certainly limit that process and others see that as well. It is a fair assessment to think that CF will definitely add quite a bit to this team and will make it better.

As far as the recruiting goes. It is on an upswing and I do feel that 2011 will be a great class.

[OKhogfan1959]

He will be a difference maker one way or another but he is in no way in shape to play a strong 30 minutes at this point.  It will take him time to catch up to the speed of the game.  He isn't coming in against a weak team.

I agree but if he plays our chance to win increases by a lot. He could really be a positive factor with the addition of some of these freshman.

[The Hogfather]

BINGO!!! With defenders & critics weighing in, YES he is, NO he isn't, We'll KNOW when we see him...blah, blah... I'm with whoever said "this is ridiculous." Every time this comes up, Pel looks more inept/weak/castrated...

Why?  He has said over and over that we will all know when Fortson is back.  The only reason he has to keep saying it over and over is because the media (and most Pelphrey detractors) won't take that answer at face value.  My guess is he'll be back for Baylor, but Pelphrey won't say that he's going to be back.  He'll just end up warming up and playing.  Why is it so hard for people to just wait until that time comes and go from there?

[ua_hogs]

I don't know if he will play or not because Fortson is the only scapegoat Pel supporters have right now. From what I read on this board, the pro-Pels (which I am not one of) do so mainly because of "integrity" and this mythical recruiting class of 2011 that will turn the program around. Well what happens when he reinstates CF and the team still sucks...then they put all of their eggs into the recruiting basket that he will never be able to pull off 

The recruiting class of 2011 is real, not "mythical."

[LRMedHawg]

I agree but if he plays our chance to win increases by a lot. He could really be a positive factor with the addition of some of these freshman.

I agree I just don't think people understand that it will take him some time to get back to form.  This has probably been the longest absence from playing actual bball games that he has ever had.

[LRMedHawg]

The recruiting class of 2011 is real, not "mythical."

Yes but our ability to sign all 3 at this point is still in question.  From what I have read we have one guy who is solid on us, one who is a maybe but is unsure, and one guy who is not very interested but hasn't totally signed off on us.  We really need all 3 but have to get at least 2 of them to rebuild.  If we only sign 1 then that will be considered a failure in recruiting unless the players signed in their place and better prospects (which is unlikely at this point).  We just can't hang our hat that these guys are coming.

[thirtythree]

I agree I just don't think people understand that it will take him some time to get back to form.  This has probably been the longest absence from playing actual bball games that he has ever had.

I don't think it will take him that long at all. He was working out on his own before he started practicing with the team. i do understand it is a lot different when you play in games, but he isn't coming in off of an injury where he couldn't do anything basketball related.

[Piglet Dispersion Syndrome]

Let's all remember we went 2-14 in conference last year with Fortson ON the floor. I don't expect miracles. I do expect Michael Washington to start playing better when Fortson is drawing everyone to him.