Latest from Pel on Fortson and Support from Gearhart and Long

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

Maybe, but most went in for the score, or he got the other team to foul.

Prolly so. He averaged 15ppg, 5 boards, and 6 dimes, all while shooting nearly 43% from the floor as a true freshman. Hate it all you want, but it was pretty damn effective.

I live out of state, so I only got to see about 5 games last year.  I'll give you both the benefit of the doubt, but I am afraid that Hawgball has been down for so long, that any player that shows even an inkling of NBA talent is given passes (pardon the pun) on bad, repetitive fundamental mistakes by a lot of fans.

What I saw was the reincarnation of Kareem Reid, with slightly more touch, better overall passing skills, and a little less speed.  Otherwise they are the same player.

Reid never stopped doing that crap, and he cost us games occasionally, when being more in control would have been a lot more effective.

I suspect that Fortson will stay a reincarnation of Reid.  Good, possibly great potential, but a disregard for smart, fundamental point play that relies too much on raw skill and circus shots.

Sorry, I'll take Kentucky's Wall any day.  The game I saw tonight was a great blend of smart/controlled point play with obvious talent.

Will we really see this blend in CF?  Based on a reliance on "Kareem Reidisms" at the beginning of last season, ala Texas & OU and seeing the same vs. Kentucky and then in the SEC tourny last year, I don't think he improved in this department.  Why?

Those who watch more, please give me an answer with some facts/reasoning.  I can only go off what I see, and they (the five or so games I was able to catch) may not be a large enough control group for an accurate litmus test.  Based on his paltry FG% and what I've seen though, I doubt it.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

I expect that Courtney will be the same player this year.  The only difference, and it's a good one for us, is that we have another scoring threat down low.

I'm far more inclined to side with you on this issue.

I'll hold out hope that CF having another offensive weapon is a large part of this problem.

Since I would like to see him back (despite what I just posted above), I even hope it is.

That would be win-win-win for CF, the team, and the fans.

I would love to be wrong on CF.

[HawgAdvocate]

Sorry, I'll take Kentucky's Wall any day.  The game I saw tonight was a great blend of smart/controlled point play with obvious talent.

Will we really see this blend in CF?  Based on a reliance on "Kareem Reidisms" at the beginning of last season, ala Texas & OU and seeing the same vs. Kentucky and then in the SEC tourny last year, I don't think he improved in this department.  Why?

Those who watch more, please give me an answer with some facts/reasoning.  I can only go off what I see, and they (the five or so games I was able to catch) may not be a large enough control group for an accurate litmus test.  Based on his paltry FG% and what I've seen though, I doubt it.

Who the hell wouldn't take John Wall?? Are you kidding me? Sure, and I'd take Carmelo Anthony at the 3 over Farmer while we're at it.

Wall makes nearly everyone in college basketball look bad by comparison.

And did you really just squat all over Kareem Reid, the all-time assist leader in Arkansas history? Really? It's amazing to me that a man who only watches about "5 games" a year can make all these bold (& damning) observations.

Fortson, as a true freshman with little talent around him, led all of D1 basketball in assists/game. And the 16ppg and 5 boards/game (hello help on our rebounding woes) are gravy. As a freshman. And you're squating on his on-court talentt? Just 5 games?

And since when is 43% "paltry" for a 5'11" PG who scores as he does?
37,38%.... maybe.
43%? No.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

Who the hell wouldn't take John Wall?? Are you kidding me? Sure, and I'd take Carmelo Anthony at the 3 over Farmer while we're at it.

Wall makes nearly everyone in college basketball look bad by comparison.

And did you really just squat all over Kareem Reid, the all-time assist leader in Arkansas history? Really? It's amazing to me that a man who only watches about "5 games" a year can make all these bold (& damning) observations.

Fortson, as a true freshman with little talent around him, led all of D1 basketball in assists/game. And the 16ppg and 5 boards/game (hello help on our rebounding woes) are gravy. As a freshman. And you're squating on his on-court talentt? Just 5 games?

And since when is 43% "paltry" for a 5'11" PG who scores as he does?
37,38%.... maybe.
43%? No.

I wasn't living out of state while Kareem Reid was there.....

And to the point of Wall, yes that is a no-brainer comparison.  I was simply using someone current as a comparison of what a point that understands how to blend God-given talent (like both have) with understanding when and when not to drive to the basket and take on MUCH taller opponents.

And while you spent energy on my post, but still didn't manage to see the caveat at the end about being willing to defer opinion to someone that can provide feedback, I'm still waiting.

WHY do you feel ___________ about CF being able to improve on his decision making, etc.

I'm not an ostrich on this, but I know what I saw in what games I was able to watch, and I hate it when a PG kills a possession with reckless, not bad place at bad time, play.

The Boar War seems to agree with my assessment that you get a whole lot of good from CF, but you get a pretty healthy dose of bad to go with it.

Last, paltry might have been a little too strong.  Maybe ehhh would be more accurate.  It's not terrible, but it could certainly improve.

[HawgAdvocate]

I wasn't living out of state while Kareem Reid was there.....

And to the point of Wall, yes that is a no-brainer comparison.  I was simply using someone current as a comparison of what a point that understands how to blend God-given talent (like both have) with understanding when and when not to drive to the basket and take on MUCH taller opponents.

And while you spent energy on my post, but still didn't manage to see the caveat at the end about being willing to defer opinion to someone that can provide feedback, I'm still waiting.

WHY do you feel ___________ about CF being able to improve on his decision making, etc.

I'm not an ostrich on this, but I know what I saw in what games I was able to watch, and I hate it when a PG kills a possession with reckless, not bad place at bad time, play.

The Boar War seems to agree with my assessment that you get a whole lot of good from CF, but you get a pretty healthy dose of bad to go with it.

Last, paltry might have been a little too strong.  Maybe ehhh would be more accurate.  It's not terrible, but it could certainly improve.

So a 5'11" freshman PG who averages 16ppg and shoots 43% is getting criticized? Tough crowd. Get on him for his FT% or his outsideshooting ability if anything. His FG% is solid though. It's not All-American level, but it's better than Rotnei's 40% he shot last year. Are you going to criticize him as well? 

You get better from experience, practice, and honing your skills. That same added experience is also the reason why his game can improve over his remaining tenure at Arkansas. Watching him at the first exhibition game, it was easy to notice that his shooting form was much improved from last season.

Using Wall was a bad comparison. That's like criticizing Scotty Thurman for not being as good as Grant Hill.

What you guys call "wreckless bad play" is what happens when a scorer and ball-handler like Fort has no one to set him up for easy buckets like he was for Washington, Rotnei, etc. When he's one of our top two scoring options (which he was), and he plays 33 minutes per game (which he was), he's going to drive and create for no other reason than that is his offensive game.

Rotnei certainly wasn't facillitating offense last year with the ball in his hands. He was shooting, or passing right back out. His 32 assists in 30 games attests to that. The consensus on Welsh was that he was our new Gary Ervin. So how else was Fort going to run an offense? The pick and roll with Washington was about it.

[UltimateHog]

So a 5'11" freshman PG who averages 16ppg and shoots 43% is getting criticized? Tough crowd. Get on him for his FT% or his outsideshooting ability if anything. His FG% is solid though. It's not All-American level, but it's better than Rotnei's 40% he shot last year. Are you going to criticize him as well? 

You get better from experience, practice, and honing your skills. That same added experience is also the reason why his game can improve over his remaining tenure at Arkansas. Watching him at the first exhibition game, it was easy to notice that his shooting form was much improved from last season.

Using Wall was a bad comparison. That's like criticizing Scotty Thurman for not being as good as Grant Hill.

What you guys call "wreckless bad play" is what happens when a scorer and ball-handler like Fort has no one to set him up for easy buckets like he was for Washington, Rotnei, etc. When he's one of our top two scoring options (which he was), and he plays 33 minutes per game (which he was), he's going to drive and create for no other reason than that is his offensive game.

Rotnei certainly wasn't facillitating offense last year with the ball in his hands. He was shooting, or passing right back out. His 32 assists in 30 games attests to that. The consensus on Welsh was that he was our new Gary Ervin. So how else was Fort going to run an offense? The pick and roll with Washington was about it.

Beautiful.

+1 good sir.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

So a 5'11" freshman PG who averages 16ppg and shoots 43% is getting criticized? Tough crowd. Get on him for his FT% or his outsideshooting ability if anything. His FG% is solid though. It's not All-American level, but it's better than Rotnei's 40% he shot last year. Are you going to criticize him as well? 

You get better from experience, practice, and honing your skills. That same added experience is also the reason why his game can improve over his remaining tenure at Arkansas. Watching him at the first exhibition game, it was easy to notice that his shooting form was much improved from last season.

Using Wall was a bad comparison. That's like criticizing Scotty Thurman for not being as good as Grant Hill.

What you guys call "wreckless bad play" is what happens when a scorer and ball-handler like Fort has no one to set him up for easy buckets like he was for Washington, Rotnei, etc. When he's one of our top two scoring options (which he was), and he plays 33 minutes per game (which he was), he's going to drive and create for no other reason than that is his offensive game.

Rotnei certainly wasn't facillitating offense last year with the ball in his hands. He was shooting, or passing right back out. His 32 assists in 30 games attests to that. The consensus on Welsh was that he was our new Gary Ervin. So how else was Fort going to run an offense? The pick and roll with Washington was about it.

See?

Now this I can digest, and while I may still have some doubts about a few points, at least I know a bit more than I did.

Thanks.

On a side note, just because a player is good, and does several things well, doesn't mean that they don't have a hole in their game somewhere that causes frustration and/or problems.

See Kareem Reid and his flying circus to the hoop antics.