Lanny and Porkatarian, Arkansas played good defense against Mo.St.? What?

[Atkinhog5]

   This morning I have read a couple of things both of you have said about the Mo. St. game. I would like to pose a few questions for both of you to answer.

     Lanny, in your recent thread about the game you asked how could anyone be upset with the victory.

      I was terribly discouraged with this win, and I am convinced now more than ever John Pelphrey has no business being the leader of this team. My concerns are none that haven't been discussed on this board, but it seems some of us need a refresher course on what represents steps in the right direction.

      I know for a fact the hogs had that game won at the 3 min mark and still it went to overtime. How can this be explained? It went to OT after one of the worst prevent defense set ups with 4 seconds left I have ever seen. Now, I have seen Tyus Whitney go the floor in four seconds and score, but this was with someone all over him. What happened the other night was a joke. The hogs had the game won and it should have never went to overtime. The fact it did is only reflective of the lack of preparation that has represented a John Pelphrey tenure at Arkansas.   


      Porkatarian believes the hogs played good defense the other night. Did they really play good defense, or was it just better than they have played this year? See, Arkansas had twenty turnovers and Mo. St. only had 10. How can anyone claim the hogs played good defense when the other team only had 10 turnovers and Arkansas had 20? I really would like to know what you meant by your statement seeing Arkansas should've lost the game. 

Arkansas did out rebound them on the defensive side, but Mo. St. only shot 30% from the floor. If you watched the game then know that Mo. st. missed a lot of wide open shots. Since the shots were wide open, is the rebounding edge enjoyed by Arkansas not a little misleading? And, is it not a little fortunate for Arkansas and Pelphrey that Mo. St. couldn't make a shot in overtime? They sure had the opportunities, and they were wide open. In my view, the defense was better than it has been , but it wasn't good. Fact is, it wasn't even close to good. The truth of the matter is Mo. St. should have won the game. Arkansas was really, really, really lucky to get that win.
   
    So Lanny, is there nothing the fans shouldn't like about the game? Could you not find anything to be alarmed by? Yea, they got the win, but so what? This team is still led by a guy that is unproven, and at every turn shows he is in way over his head. Is it not alarming to you that Micheal Washington came in twenty pounds overweight, and out of shape? Not to mention the fact the kid can't play without picking up cheap fouls. He is being rendered de facto out of the game for large chunks of it even when he is on the floor.

      Now, this is Pelphrey's fault and no one else's. Micheal Wahington has no business picking up two fouls a game trying to set screens for Clarke twentyfive feet from the basket. Those are Pelphrey plays, and for too many games we have had to watch this young man sitting on the bench when he should have been on the floor because Pelphrey is unable to draw up plays that protect him from those loose fouls on the perimeter. It throws his whole game off and renders him ineffective when they need him to be aggressive. This is one of the reasons why Arkansas gets outrebounded every game. That and a lack of overall effort that seems to be routine under John Pelphrey. Rather anyone on here wants to admit it or not, this team is not fundamentally sound. That is the coaches fault. No one else's.

    So Lanny, as a fan, I shouldn't be disappointed with the win the other night when Arkansas did everything in the world to lose it, and should have? Hell, Mo. St. had three or four opportunities the last possession in OT two feet from the basket and couldn't get it in. Was that good defense, Porkatarian?

     

[The Hogfather]

You just Tyus Whitney.

[Pork Twain]

Cry me a river...

[Science Fiction Greg]

[bwbcpa]

EXACTLY!

[Smokehouse]

Ha!

[Hogbody]

The ignorance of some people in the sport of basketball continues to astound me.

These people just watch the game and see who we played and take nothing into account except the score....and it's ridiculous

[pick_DA_EAGLES]

atkinshog,

if washington sets the screen correctly he gets no foul.

if washington would have got off his arss and worked out this summer he wouldn't have been 20lbs overweight and out of shape.

now the last play of reg. i agree was a complete breakdown on someones part, who's i don't know and i doubt you do either. (cause i bet you were not in the huddle when the play was called)

doesn't good (not great) def. equate into poor shooting %'s?

if this was the best def. we've played all year, would you not consider it to be good?


the turnovers, wouldn't they be considered to be off. problems?  (no fortson)


and as for you saying the game was WON with 3 min. left, you answered your own question there. (there was still 3 min. to play)

if you are discouraged with any win, maybe you should select another team to cheer for till the HOGS get back to the top. on the other hand just keep cheering for the new team you select, we don't want fans like you.

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

atkinshog,

if washington sets the screen correctly he gets no foul.

if washington would have got off his arss and worked out this summer he wouldn't have been 20lbs overweight and out of shape.

now the last play of reg. i agree was a complete breakdown on someones part, who's i don't know and i doubt you do either. (cause i bet you were not in the huddle when the play was called)

doesn't good (not great) def. equate into poor shooting %'s?

if this was the best def. we've played all year, would you not consider it to be good?


the turnovers, wouldn't they be considered to be off. problems?  (no fortson)


and as for you saying the game was WON with 3 min. left, you answered your own question there. (there was still 3 min. to play)

if you are discouraged with any win, maybe you should select another team to cheer for till the HOGS get back to the top. on the other hand just keep cheering for the new team you select, we don't want fans like you.

Agreed.  Go look at Mo State averages before they played us.  If shooting%, off rebounds, Pts, are below their season averages that most likely means our defense had something to do with it.  A defensive rebound is equivalent to a TO.  So the fact they had low TO's could also be attributed to our high number of defensive rebounds.

You mentioned Wash's weight.  While I had not read anything about it, I was looking at him the other night and thought for a senior this guy should have more muscle or definition.  Look at some of the older guys in the SEC they usually look like they should be playing football and also look like you do not want to come across their path.  Their is nothing intimidating about MW.

[ErieHog]

The ignorance of some people in the sport of basketball continues to astound me.

These people just watch the game and see who we played and take nothing into account except the score....and it's ridiculous

#14 nationally in 2pt FG defense.  Something, somehow is working.

[Atkinhog5]

atkinshog,

if washington sets the screen correctly he gets no foul.

if washington would have got off his arss and worked out this summer he wouldn't have been 20lbs overweight and out of shape.

now the last play of reg. i agree was a complete breakdown on someones part, who's i don't know and i doubt you do either. (cause i bet you were not in the huddle when the play was called)

doesn't good (not great) def. equate into poor shooting %'s?

if this was the best def. we've played all year, would you not consider it to be good?


the turnovers, wouldn't they be considered to be off. problems?  (no fortson)


and as for you saying the game was WON with 3 min. left, you answered your own question there. (there was still 3 min. to play)

if you are discouraged with any win, maybe you should select another team to cheer for till the HOGS get back to the top. on the other hand just keep cheering for the new team you select, we don't want fans like you.

When shots are wide open it equals off night for MoSt. not on night for Arkansas defense.

[WhenPigsFly]

I guess since the Hogs actually won against a decent team, we're not supposed to address any concerns or issues about the game.

[WilsonHog]

"They got the win, but so what."

That's all one needs to know about Atkins.

[Atkinhog5]

When a team only has ten tournovers and you have twenty you cannot say you played good defense. When a team misses wide open shots you cannot say you played good defense. Fact is, Mo. St. played good defense but was unable to make anything. Thus, allowing a more athletic team that is poorly caoched to win the the game. See, A good coach can take less and compete, but a poor coach can't. All he can do is take more and barely survive when the other team has an off night on that guys court. And then make a fool of himself with his giddiness for actually having won a game.

[Toad Suck Pork]

Nobody on here is going to say the Hogs are playing championship caliber basketball right now.

The important thing is we saw improvement in several key areas Tuesday night.

If the Hogs continue to improve in these areas, we'll become a good team.

I think this is kind of an extreme post.  This team showed sligns of life and improvement for the first time this season, let's be encouraged by that.

[Atkinhog5]

"They got the win, but so what."

That's all one needs to know about Atkins.

All anyone needs to know about me is I will never be satisfied with that win the other night or John Pelphrey. He is simply a poor coach and that win was luck. Forgive me for not wetting on myself.

[Science Fiction Greg]

All anyone needs to know about me is I will never be satisfied with that win the other night or John Pelphrey. He is simply a poor coach and that win was luck. Forgive me for not wetting on myself.

You are forgiven for that but I'd rather you wet yourself than soil the board with your crap.

[Toad Suck Pork]

All anyone needs to know about me is I will never be satisfied with that win the other night or John Pelphrey. He is simply a poor coach and that win was luck. Forgive me for not wetting on myself.

I think 9 out of 10 fans are not going to assume we turned it all around with one victory the other night.  The biggest thing they showed me was that they were capable of getting better.  The heart and hustle was there.  They finally had guys rise to the occasion.

This is a long road to travel to get back to the top.  I'm still not sold that Pelphrey is the guy.  But at least he gave me pause for a week or two to think there is still some hope.

[savimbi2002]

Corndog - nice retort.+1

[pick_DA_EAGLES]

When shots are wide open it equals off night for MoSt. not on night for Arkansas defense.

can you show me in the stats or anywhere else for that matter that they were taken open shots?

[WilsonHog]

All anyone needs to know about me is I will never be satisfied with that win the other night or John Pelphrey.

Ah, you're one of THOSE guys. One of those folks who is so turned against John Pelphrey that it wouldn't matter what he did.

Thanks for identifying yourself. The rest of the logical and rational folks need to know so we can cull you from the herd.

[pick_DA_EAGLES]

I think 9 out of 10 fans are not going to assume we turned it all around with one victory the other night.  The biggest thing they showed me was that they were capable of getting better.  The heart and hustle was there.  They finally had guys rise to the occasion.

This is a long road to travel to get back to the top.  I'm still not sold that Pelphrey is the guy.  But at least he gave me pause for a week or two to think there is still some hope.

^^^^^^^^^^^^ exactly!

i see no one saying we are going to win out or anything like that.

but they did show some heart and desire in this game.

[Atkinhog5]

can you show me in the stats or anywhere else for that matter that they were taken open shots?

No, But I did watch the game. I heard the announcers talking about how cold Mo St. was. The last Mo St. poss. in regulation was a good one though.

[Hogbody]

#14 nationally in 2pt FG defense.  Something, somehow is working.

but that doesn't matter... We gave up an 11 point lead to an undefeated team, with many freshmen contributors, and still pulled off the win. Of course it's all Pels fault. You can find blame with Pel for quite a few things, but I'd say he did a pretty decent job especially out of timeouts

[Atkinhog5]

^^^^^^^^^^^^ exactly!

i see no one saying we are going to win out or anything like that.

but they did show some heart and desire in this game.

A victory over Mo. St. in a game the hogs tried to throw away is anything but heart and soul. It's luck when you get the victory.

[pick_DA_EAGLES]

No, But I did watch the game. I heard the announcers talking about how cold Mo St. was. The last Mo St. poss. in regulation was a good one though.

well from what i have been told in other threads,

IF YOU CANT PROVE IT, ITS NOT TRUE!!!!!

[Atkinhog5]

well from what i have been told in other threads,

IF YOU CANT PROVE IT, ITS NOT TRUE!!!!!

Did you watch the game or not? If you did, you could hardly be questioning the fact the shots were wide open.

[ge-erdone]

   This morning I have read a couple of things both of you have said about the Mo. St. game. I would like to pose a few questions for both of you to answer.

     Lanny, in your recent thread about the game you asked how could anyone be upset with the victory.

      I was terribly discouraged with this win, and I am convinced now more than ever John Pelphrey has no business being the leader of this team. My concerns are none that haven't been discussed on this board, but it seems some of us need a refresher course on what represents steps in the right direction.

      I know for a fact the hogs had that game won at the 3 min mark and still it went to overtime. How can this be explained? It went to OT after one of the worst prevent defense set ups with 4 seconds left I have ever seen. Now, I have seen Tyus Whitney go the floor in four seconds and score, but this was with someone all over him. What happened the other night was a joke. The hogs had the game won and it should have never went to overtime. The fact it did is only reflective of the lack of preparation that has represented a John Pelphrey tenure at Arkansas.   


      Porkatarian believes the hogs played good defense the other night. Did they really play good defense, or was it just better than they have played this year? See, Arkansas had twenty turnovers and Mo. St. only had 10. How can anyone claim the hogs played good defense when the other team only had 10 turnovers and Arkansas had 20? I really would like to know what you meant by your statement seeing Arkansas should've lost the game. 

Arkansas did out rebound them on the defensive side, but Mo. St. only shot 30% from the floor. If you watched the game then know that Mo. st. missed a lot of wide open shots. Since the shots were wide open, is the rebounding edge enjoyed by Arkansas not a little misleading? And, is it not a little fortunate for Arkansas and Pelphrey that Mo. St. couldn't make a shot in overtime? They sure had the opportunities, and they were wide open. In my view, the defense was better than it has been , but it wasn't good. Fact is, it wasn't even close to good. The truth of the matter is Mo. St. should have won the game. Arkansas was really, really, really lucky to get that win.
   
    So Lanny, is there nothing the fans shouldn't like about the game? Could you not find anything to be alarmed by? Yea, they got the win, but so what? This team is still led by a guy that is unproven, and at every turn shows he is in way over his head. Is it not alarming to you that Micheal Washington came in twenty pounds overweight, and out of shape? Not to mention the fact the kid can't play without picking up cheap fouls. He is being rendered de facto out of the game for large chunks of it even when he is on the floor.

      Now, this is Pelphrey's fault and no one else's. Micheal Wahington has no business picking up two fouls a game trying to set screens for Clarke twentyfive feet from the basket. Those are Pelphrey plays, and for too many games we have had to watch this young man sitting on the bench when he should have been on the floor because Pelphrey is unable to draw up plays that protect him from those loose fouls on the perimeter. It throws his whole game off and renders him ineffective when they need him to be aggressive. This is one of the reasons why Arkansas gets outrebounded every game. That and a lack of overall effort that seems to be routine under John Pelphrey. Rather anyone on here wants to admit it or not, this team is not fundamentally sound. That is the coaches fault. No one else's.

    So Lanny, as a fan, I shouldn't be disappointed with the win the other night when Arkansas did everything in the world to lose it, and should have? Hell, Mo. St. had three or four opportunities the last possession in OT two feet from the basket and couldn't get it in. Was that good defense, Porkatarian?

So, in your opinion Missouri State's HC, coached great, they played great, defense and offense, and should have won by what, 1 point?

Hatred is so judgemental and blind.

I bet if Mike Anderson were the coach, and Arkansas won the way it did, you post would be postitve and entirely different.

Hey, I bet if ORU and Missouri played each other this year, ORU would win, somehow.

If that happened, what say you about Mike Anderson's coaching?

[Scott7703]

All anyone needs to know about me is I will never be satisfied with that win the other night or John Pelphrey. He is simply a poor coach and that win was luck. Forgive me for not wetting on myself.

When i read who started the thread i knew better than to even read it. I would prefer that you remove yoruself from hogville or at least reward the rest of us and quit posting.

I understand that the win against Missouri State is not the equivalent to beating Duke, North Carolina, UCLA, Michigan State, UCONN, or Texas, but they are a better team than some of the others we have been beaten by this year. They were 10-0 coming into the game, winning @ Auburn by 11 and beating Tulsa( who will be a NCAA tourney team) @ Tulsa.

If you know anything about basketball you would also see that there has been improvement by the Razorbacks. It also helps that we have added depth and the improvement will continue when Fortson returns.

Your (ignorant) comment about Pelphrey being at fault for Washington picking up fouls is unbelievable. Do you watch very much basketball? If Washington wasnt lazy and would set a good solid screen there would be no issue. It has nothing to do with the coach.

The best thing you could do is quit watching the games and if you happend to watch the game keep your thoughts to yourself.

[Hogbody]

    A victory over Mo. St. in a game the hogs tried to throw away is anything but heart and soul. It's luck when you get the victory.

so if we woulda won it woulda been luck but if they woulda won it was talent and coaching?

Talk about having an agenda

[Atkinhog5]

Ah, you're one of THOSE guys. One of those folks who is so turned against John Pelphrey that it wouldn't matter what he did.

Thanks for identifying yourself. The rest of the logical and rational folks need to know so we can cull you from the herd.

I assure you the first time I see John Pelphrey do something worthy of praise I will not hesitate in saying it. Likewise, I will also state emphatically what I have a problem with. I'm not the one on here fooling myself about a coach's ability for the sake of some dumb statement of solidarity because I thought he could coach and it turns out he can't.

[ballhog™]

I assure you the first time I see John Pelphrey do something worthy of praise I will not hesitate in saying it. Likewise, I will also state emphatically what I have a problem with. I'm not the one on here fooling myself about a coach's ability for the sake of some dumb patronage because I thought he could coach.

who are you trying to convince...if you want to be miserable after a win have at it.

I left BWA happy with the outcome.

[rude1]

You make excellent points and I seen the same things. BUT, a win is a win. To use one of my favorite Nolanisms, sometimes a bumpy ride is much better than a smooth walk. So while I think MO.State lost the game by not hitting the open shots they usually make, I can find no fault in winning, and as long as they keep winning, whether it be by luck or not, I will be content.

[Atkinhog5]

who are you trying to convince...if you want to be miserable after a win have at it.

I left BWA happy with the outcome.

I'm miserable because I have absolutely no faith in Pelphrey and have not seen anything to be exuberant about. We're not going to the tournament again and Pelphrey has been nothing but a digression from what Heath had built. That is saying something rather you recognize it or not.

[Atkinhog5]

You make excellent points and I seen the same things. BUT, a win is a win. To use one of my favorite Nolanisms, sometimes a bumpy ride is much better than a smooth walk. So while I think MO.State lost the game by not hitting the open shots they usually make, I can find no fault in winning, and as long as they keep winning, whether it be by luck or not, I will be content.

I have no problem with winning the game. I just don't like how they did it. And I doubt they continue winning.

[The_Iceman]

[The_Iceman]

FCJ wannabe.

[Atkinhog5]

so if we woulda won it woulda been luck but if they woulda won it was talent and coaching?

Talk about having an agenda

Please clarify this if you dare. I think I know what you are saying but I'm not sure.

[fred ziffel]

How anyone can be "terribly discouraged" with a win is beyond me. Merry Christmas to everyone else!!

[brenthog]

Atkinhog5 I did watch the game. You are correct, a lot of the shots they were taking were wide open. They were rotating the ball very well and you could see that they are a well coached team. What you fail to mention is that Arkansas Defense was rotating just as well. This causes many of their shots to be rushed. They were wide open, yes, but rushed. Playing basketball you know that this isn't the best scenario for a shooter. When the game wore on, the Arkansas D got a little worn down. Then they stopped rotating as fast. This free'd them up to make more of the shots they were attempting and is one reason Weems started to heat up from 3.

[ballhog™]

I'm miserable because I have absolutely no faith in Pelphrey and have not seen anything to be exuberant about. We're not going to the tournament again and Pelphrey has been nothing but a digression from what Heath had built. That is saying something rather you recognize it or not.

again I won't try to convince you to like a hog win, but I won't be so disillusioned that I won't enjoy it when they do...so react however you feel is appropriate, but don't try to drag down those that feel differently with you

[pick_DA_EAGLES]

 M.S. missing open shots, equates into good definsive stats for ARK. reguardless if they were on the floor by themselves they missed, and that is how you come up with part of the def. stats. (shot %)

[rude1]

I have no problem with winning the game. I just don't like how they did it. And I doubt they continue winning.

I agree it doesn't bode well for what we are to see down the line. But at the same time, if they manage to win the next three or four in a row and should have lost each, is that a reason to complain? As long as they are winning against decent competition, complaining looks more like sour grapes.

[pick_DA_EAGLES]

I agree it doesn't bode well for what we are to see down the line. But at the same time, if they manage to win the next three or four in a row and should have lost each, is that a reason to complain? As long as they are winning against decent competition, complaining looks more like sour grapes.

heck with the way the year is going i dont really care who we beat just as long as we win.

[Atkinhog5]

When i read who started the thread i knew better than to even read it. I would prefer that you remove yoruself from hogville or at least reward the rest of us and quit posting.

I understand that the win against Missouri State is not the equivalent to beating Duke, North Carolina, UCLA, Michigan State, UCONN, or Texas, but they are a better team than some of the others we have been beaten by this year. They were 10-0 coming into the game, winning @ Auburn by 11 and beating Tulsa( who will be a NCAA tourney team) @ Tulsa.

If you know anything about basketball you would also see that there has been improvement by the Razorbacks. It also helps that we have added depth and the improvement will continue when Fortson returns.

Your (ignorant) comment about Pelphrey being at fault for Washington picking up fouls is unbelievable. Do you watch very much basketball? If Washington wasnt lazy and would set a good solid screen there would be no issue. It has nothing to do with the coach.

The best thing you could do is quit watching the games and if you happend to watch the game keep your thoughts to yourself.

       Is Pelphrey drawing up the plays or not? It was like last year in our third game in conference on the road at Florida. Arkansas comes out and dominates them for eleven minutes of the first half and establishes a  double digit lead. They had no answer for Washington. He was killing them. There's a timeout, Pel-phrey draws up the same play in question, Washington picks up a cheap foul on it twentyfive feet from the basket, and then on the other side of the floor thirty seconds later he picks up his second foul because of disgust, and then he has to go to the bench. Along with him going to the bench, your chances of winning the game went down the drain because he couldn't play the final eight minutes of the first half. . This is what I'm talking about.

        Maybe I need to watch more basketball and have a better memory so I could forget the disasters that have littered a john Pelphrey's tenure. Oh wait, I do and I do. I think what you meant to say is don't do these things. If I didn't watch, then I wouldn't have to forget them, right.

[brenthog]

AtkinHog, just so you know. It was Washington who was out of position as the backman on the final play. This wasn't Pel's fault. Washington came up to the ball and left a man under the basket.

[bwbcpa]

AtkinHog, just so you know. It was Washington who was out of position as the backman on the final play. This wasn't Pel's fault. Washington came up to the ball and left a man under the basket.

I think Washington had fouled at at this point.

[Atkinhog5]

I agree it doesn't bode well for what we are to see down the line. But at the same time, if they manage to win the next three or four in a row and should have lost each, is that a reason to complain? As long as they are winning against decent competition, complaining looks more like sour grapes.

    Let them win the games first. I would have to say winning the next three or four would be really impressive. Winning one of them isn't and little makes John pelphrey a good coach. Right. 

[ErieHog]

AtkinHog, just so you know. It was Washington who was out of position as the backman on the final play. This wasn't Pel's fault. Washington came up to the ball and left a man under the basket.

It was Powell, not Washington.   Washington had fouled out at that point.

Please, don't give the troll something to use.

[brenthog]

It was Powell, not Washington.   Washington had fouled out at that point.

Please, don't give the troll something to use.

Well the premise is the same. It was the back man. Powell/Washington point is it wasn't a coaching error.