87 out of 128 fbs teams had 8 or fewer wins

[hogsanity]

68% of all fbs teams won 8 or fewer games this season. Only 24 p5 teams ( out of 64 ) won 9 or more games, including bowl games. Average # of wins in the sec 7.5. Big 12 6.8  Big10 7  acc 7.6  pac12 7.

So please stop with the " Arkansas is a laughing stock "  " Arkansas is an embarrassment " because they are not. They are a average college football program. Also stop with the " Arkansas should be so much better " unless you have some REAL reasons why that is so. Just because you want them to be better is not a reason they should be better.

Can they be better than average? In short spurts, I would say most definitely. Can they rise above it and be a 9+ win team consistently, I would say no, and the last 40 or 50 years would bear that out.

What I still can not figure out is why some many of our fans either think the program has been better than than average the last 40 or 50 years or think, in spite of the numbers, the program should be better. Nothing, not one thing from recruiting base to resources to finances to location- NOTHING - says this program is or should be above average.

[Pork Twain]

It is like some of our fellow fans just don't get it.  We are not the level of program they want us to be and we never will be.  Just enjoy watching the hogs and loss the butt-hurt over every loss.  Let go of the 60's...let go of BP's two good years and lousy recruiting...Let go of the SWC days...

[311Hog]

Sorry but that bowl performance is inexcusable.  Combined with the Missouri game.....

[Wildhog]

I don't disagree with the OP.  However, it's time for the short burst of above average.  2015 should have been better.  2016 should have been better.  Regardless of our program's overall potential, I'm tired of leaving wins on the field.

[NuttinItUp]

Sorry but that bowl performance is inexcusable.  Combined with the Missouri game.....

Sometimes you lose to teams you should beat and sometimes you beat teams you should lose to. That is why they play the games.

(btw, I realize the Va Tech loss was hard because of the collapse, but they were expected to beat us before the game started)

[Torqued pork]

Let go of any notion of in-game adjustments. Let go of huge leads. Get your arse completely annihilated a few times a year. It's all completely acceptable here.

[The real Hogules]

I could live with less than 8 wins occasionally, but damn near every single season is getting old, as ticket prices continue to rise and the product on the field stays the same.
If CBB is willing to make meaningful changes to his staff and get a couple of hired gun type recruiters on staff, then at least we'll have hope for the future.

[311Hog]

Sometimes you lose to teams you should beat and sometimes you beat teams you should lose to. That is why they play the games.

(btw, I realize the Va Tech loss was hard because of the collapse, but they were expected to beat us before the game started)

2nd half collapses have nothing to do with the opponent though.  We stunk up the place in the 2nd half all season.  Beilema "used" to have his teams at their best during the 2nd half of the season and the 2nd half of games which is a GOOD thing to be, but now it is the exact opposite.  Which is really really bad for our future.

[Kevin]

how you get to your record matters.   the last 2 games are unacceptable

[hogsanity]

I don't disagree with the OP.  However, it's time for the short burst of above average.  2015 should have been better.  2016 should have been better.  Regardless of our program's overall potential, I'm tired of leaving wins on the field.

You say those years SHOULD have been better, but what do you base that on? Schedule, where they played a team that was ranked at the time like 7 weeks in a row? Talent on the field? That is what I am trying to figure out, why do people think the team SHOULD have been better, what are they basing that on other than a desire for it to be true.

[LZH]

I noticed you didn't use seven or fewer wins as the example. I would assume that would put us around the 50% mark. Woohoo, we are mediocre!

[311Hog]

how you get to your record matters.   the last 2 games are unacceptable

^^^^^ This is it for me.  If we win 10 games or 2 it doesn't really matter to me (obviously i would rather we win them all), but "how" the games go is what is important to me.  Getting blasted by 50 points - Unacceptable, Giving up 3 touchdown leads when you are supposed to be a ground and pound 2nd half team TWICE  is unacceptable to me.  If those three games were close losses i would be 99% less angry about it then i am.  Those games exposed serious deep seeded flaws in every aspect of our team.  And tells me we are no where near to being a contender for anything.

[hogsanity]

I noticed you didn't use seven or fewer wins as the example. I would assume that would put us around the 50% mark. Woohoo, we are mediocre!

I could have used 9 or 4, or 14 or 0. I had to pick some number so I went with 8 because that was the most wins we have had in the last 5 seasons.

[Wildhog]

You say those years SHOULD have been better, but what do you base that on? Schedule, where they played a team that was ranked at the time like 7 weeks in a row? Talent on the field? That is what I am trying to figure out, why do people think the team SHOULD have been better, what are they basing that on other than a desire for it to be true.

Based on the games that I watched.  We've given away quite a few wins during CBB's tenure.  They were listed in an article that was posted here recently. 

I'm perfectly fine with averaging 7-8 regular season wins/year, which is historically what we are.  Every now and then, though, we're capable of putting up a 10+ win season.  I want to see some reason to believe that we're actually going to have one of those seasons soon, and I just don't. 

[Pig in the Pokey]

Ohio State helped us out with the whole 'laughing stock' darn.

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

This issue is the fact that we SHOULD'VE had 9 wins THIS SEASON! Our 2nd half meltdowns in the last 2 games cost us that opportunity

[Wildhog]

This issue is the fact that we SHOULD'VE had 9 wins THIS SEASON! Our 2nd half meltdowns in the last 2 games cost us that opportunity

Yes, we should have.

[LZH]

I could have used 9 or 4, or 14 or 0. I had to pick some number so I went with 8 because that was the most wins we have had in the last 5 seasons.

Fair enough. Holy darn, I think my horse just moved, I need to get my big stick back out and get to work.

[hogsanity]

Based on the games that I watched.  We've given away quite a few wins during CBB's tenure.  They were listed in an article that was posted here recently. 

I'm perfectly fine with averaging 7-8 regular season wins/year, which is historically what we are.  Every now and then, though, we're capable of putting up a 10+ win season.  I want to see some reason to believe that we're actually going to have one of those seasons soon, and I just don't. 

But that is just opinion, there is no real reason they should have won those games. Just like there is no real reason they should have beaten old misses the last two years, or won the tcu game this year. Or gone into Neyland and beat TN in 2015.

There is a reason Bama should have beaten Washington, or Clemson should have beaten Ohio St, they were the better teams. They had better players. Very rarely in sec play does Ar walk on the field and it is clear they have the better team.

The only game in 2016 that I think they should have won that they lost was Mizzu, AR has a better roster of talent than Mizzu does.

[defcoach]

68% of all fbs teams won 8 or fewer games this season. Only 24 p5 teams ( out of 64 ) won 9 or more games, including bowl games. Average # of wins in the sec 7.5. Big 12 6.8  Big10 7  acc 7.6  pac12 7.

So please stop with the " Arkansas is a laughing stock "  " Arkansas is an embarrassment " because they are not. They are a average college football program. Also stop with the " Arkansas should be so much better " unless you have some REAL reasons why that is so. Just because you want them to be better is not a reason they should be better.

Can they be better than average? In short spurts, I would say most definitely. Can they rise above it and be a 9+ win team consistently, I would say no, and the last 40 or 50 years would bear that out.

What I still can not figure out is why some many of our fans either think the program has been better than than average the last 40 or 50 years or think, in spite of the numbers, the program should be better. Nothing, not one thing from recruiting base to resources to finances to location- NOTHING - says this program is or should be above average.

You said it!  We should expect to win more than 7 games most years,  but if we occasionally have a 6 or 7 win year, and occasionally win 10-12 games, while usually winning 8-9, AND our players (and coaches) are not acting like idiots and embarrassing the University or the State, then I am happy.  We did have some very disappointing losses, however, we also had several VERY exciting wins this season. 
I think most fans (except for a very vocal minority understand this concept.)

[Ghost Writer in the Sty]

How many of those 87 teams pay their head coach $4 million plus a year ?

[007 License To Squeal]

This issue is the fact that we SHOULD'VE had 9 wins THIS SEASON! Our 2nd half meltdowns in the last 2 games cost us that opportunity

Exactly.....and none of these "we are just average" posters can adequately explain or excuse BB's ineptness in coaching a complete game.

[Wildhog]

But that is just opinion, there is no real reason they should have won those games. Just like there is no real reason they should have beaten old misses the last two years, or won the tcu game this year. Or gone into Neyland and beat TN in 2015.

There is a reason Bama should have beaten Washington, or Clemson should have beaten Ohio St, they were the better teams. They had better players. Very rarely in sec play does Ar walk on the field and it is clear they have the better team.

The only game in 2016 that I think they should have won that they lost was Mizzu, AR has a better roster of talent than Mizzu does.

You can do all the mental gymnastics you want.  I watched the games.  I'm sure you watched the games, too.  The Mizzou loss was inexcusable.  Losing to VaTech, after being up 24-0, is inexcusable.  Regardless of our recruiting rankings, or campus location, or our program's resources, we still should have ended the season 9-4.

[bphi11ips]

68% of all fbs teams won 8 or fewer games this season. Only 24 p5 teams ( out of 64 ) won 9 or more games, including bowl games. Average # of wins in the sec 7.5. Big 12 6.8  Big10 7  acc 7.6  pac12 7.

So please stop with the " Arkansas is a laughing stock "  " Arkansas is an embarrassment " because they are not. They are a average college football program. Also stop with the " Arkansas should be so much better " unless you have some REAL reasons why that is so. Just because you want them to be better is not a reason they should be better.

Can they be better than average? In short spurts, I would say most definitely. Can they rise above it and be a 9+ win team consistently, I would say no, and the last 40 or 50 years would bear that out.

What I still can not figure out is why some many of our fans either think the program has been better than than average the last 40 or 50 years or think, in spite of the numbers, the program should be better. Nothing, not one thing from recruiting base to resources to finances to location- NOTHING - says this program is or should be above average.

You're about half right.  Razorbacks fans expectations may be unreasonable, but you don't mention many numbers.  How do you define average?  The only numbers you present are based upon the 128 team FBS pool.  When college football programs are ranked historically, Arkansas is usually now around 18-20, down 5 or 6 spots after 25 years in the SEC.  If Arkansas is compared to the second tier of teams behind the traditional powers of Ohio State, Oklahoma, Alabama, USC, Michigan, etc., yes, we are currently average or below our historic standing, but that doesn't mean fans should accept average or believe we are average, because when compared to all 128 FBS schools, we are better than average and should be.

Arkansas has won 9 or more games 17 times in the last 50 years, and in 35 of those the regular season was only 11 games.  Hatfield did it 5 times in a row to close the 80's.  So, in the last 30 years Arkansas has averaged 9 or more wins 34% of the time, or once every 3 years.  That's a reasonable expectation, but it doesn't mean we are not capable of running off a few good years in a row.  A repeat of the 60s, 70s, and 80s should always be the goal. 

Not buying into Arkansas being "average", but will accept that the "average" Arkansas year is about 7 or 8 wins.     

P.S. - This was a year when the Razorbacks should have won at least 9.

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

Exactly.....and none of these "we are just average" posters can adequately explain or excuse BB's ineptness in coaching a complete game.

The issues are obvious, but our coach doesn't want to step on toes. As he said when he 1st arrived, it all starts up front. Kurt Anderson has only been here for a season, but I am far from impressed with what I've seen take place on the offensive line under his watch. I've been even less impressed with what Rory Segrest has done with our defensive line. There has been little to no player development at that position and it shows anytime we go up against veteran offensive linemen.

We got ahead in the VA Tech game because they were trying to stop our run. When they realized we couldn't run, they began to key on the pass game and started getting interceptions.
Our line play seriously needs to be addressed

[d1nonlyhogfan]

We are mediocre. Always have been; always will be - with the exception of JFB (and his amazing ability to pick excellent assistants) and CBP.

[d1nonlyhogfan]

You're about half right.  Razorbacks fans expectations may be unreasonable, but you don't mention many numbers.  How do you define average?  The only numbers you present are based upon the 128 team FBS pool.  When college football programs are ranked historically, Arkansas is usually now around 18-20, down 5 or 6 spots after 25 years in the SEC.  If Arkansas is compared to the second tier of teams behind the traditional powers of Ohio State, Oklahoma, Alabama, USC, Michigan, etc., yes, we are currently average or below our historic standing, but that doesn't mean fans should accept average or believe we are average, because when compared to all 128 FBS schools, we are better than average and should be.

Arkansas has won 9 or more games 17 times in the last 50 years, and in 35 of those the regular season was only 11 games.  Hatfield did it 5 times in a row to close the 80's.  So, in the last 30 years Arkansas has averaged 9 or more wins 34% of the time, or once every 3 years.  That's a reasonable expectation, but it doesn't mean we are not capable of running off a few good years in a row.  A repeat of the 60s, 70s, and 80s should always be the goal. 

Not buying into Arkansas being "average", but will accept that the "average" Arkansas year is about 7 or 8 wins.     

P.S. - This was a year when the Razorbacks should have won at least 9.

Let's also talk about coaching salaires. Because we definitely pay well above the average.

[Letsroll1200]

68% of all fbs teams won 8 or fewer games this season. Only 24 p5 teams ( out of 64 ) won 9 or more games, including bowl games. Average # of wins in the sec 7.5. Big 12 6.8  Big10 7  acc 7.6  pac12 7.

So please stop with the " Arkansas is a laughing stock "  " Arkansas is an embarrassment " because they are not. They are a average college football program. Also stop with the " Arkansas should be so much better " unless you have some REAL reasons why that is so. Just because you want them to be better is not a reason they should be better.

Can they be better than average? In short spurts, I would say most definitely. Can they rise above it and be a 9+ win team consistently, I would say no, and the last 40 or 50 years would bear that out.

What I still can not figure out is why some many of our fans either think the program has been better than than average the last 40 or 50 years or think, in spite of the numbers, the program should be better. Nothing, not one thing from recruiting base to resources to finances to location- NOTHING - says this program is or should be above average.

This is another excuse. 

[26.2Hog]

Let's also talk about coaching salaires. Because we definitely pay well above the average.

Yes.  Bielema ranks #17 in coaches salary.  How does our football team rank?

[mckinneyhog5]

A loss is a loss..the same people complaining about Margin of defeat are the same ones who tell people there are no "moral victories" just losses. I can guarantee you this group would change their mode of criticism if the games had been closer. We finished 7-6 and there will be no * next to our losses denoting the amount we lost by or how we squandered leads.

With that said, should we have finished better? Yes, and BB has had a history of doing just that..minus this year. It's not a trend yet so if you predicted 7-5/6 then you were right. If you predicted 8 like I did then you were somewhat disappointed but know they're close.

[Wisco Pig]

You can do all the mental gymnastics you want.  I watched the games.  I'm sure you watched the games, too.  The Mizzou loss was inexcusable.  Losing to VaTech, after being up 24-0, is inexcusable.  Regardless of our recruiting rankings, or campus location, or our program's resources, we still should have ended the season 9-4.

Yup, I get tired of statistical deep dives that require me to disregard what I just witnessed with my own eyes.  The Hogs should have been 9-4. It's true that we don't get to enjoy 9-win seasons very often, but this should have been one of them.  Last year, too.  When your team doesn't have good seasons consistently, it's especially frustrating to see missed opportunities like those of the last two years.

[hogsanity]

Yup, I get tired of statistical deep dives that require me to disregard what I just witnessed with my own eyes.  The Hogs should have been 9-4. It's true that we don't get to enjoy 9-win seasons very often, but this should have been one of them.  Last year, too.  When your team doesn't have good seasons consistently, it's especially frustrating to see missed opportunities like those of the last two years.

what is suddenly so magical about 9 wins?

[defcoach]

Exactly.....and none of these "we are just average" posters can adequately explain or excuse BB's ineptness in coaching a complete game.

We looked complete against Florida, and TCU, and Ole Miss....

[holeinthewall]

We looked complete against Florida, and TCU, and Ole Miss....

I think you answered your question listing those 3 teams that are not very good.

[pfrg999]

2 of the 7 wins over teams with winning records.... La Tech & Florida.. This was no Great coaching feat.. This was Subpar..

[bphi11ips]

what is suddenly so magical about 9 wins?

See the OP

[Wisco Pig]

what is suddenly so magical about 9 wins?

Nothing.  You began your OP by stating that 68% of all FBS teams won 8 or fewer games this season.  We had clear paths to 9 wins in each of the past 2 years.   You're right, of course, that 9 wins don't represent a magical season, but lots of us would be feeling better about the program if we were 9-4, 9-4 the past two years instead of 8-5, 7-6.   We've had opportunities these past 2 years and have kicked them away.  That's frustrating.

[lutherheggs]

When you have the facilities, the budget, the ticket sales, the attendance, and the fanbase that Arkansas has, it should not be an average program. So your premise is wrong to start out.

If Arkansas had a stadium that held 40,000, had a RF that took in only a few million per year, and paid its head coach $800,000, then we would all be elated with 6 or 7 wins, wouldn't we?

P.S. Arkansas is about to add 3,000 seats, mostly luxury suite seats, at a cost of $160 million!!! That is not what an "average" program does or even can do. $50K per seat! Holy schnikeys!

[KennyForAD]

68% of all fbs teams won 8 or fewer games this season. Only 24 p5 teams ( out of 64 ) won 9 or more games, including bowl games. Average # of wins in the sec 7.5. Big 12 6.8  Big10 7  acc 7.6  pac12 7.

So please stop with the " Arkansas is a laughing stock "  " Arkansas is an embarrassment " because they are not. They are a average college football program. Also stop with the " Arkansas should be so much better " unless you have some REAL reasons why that is so. Just because you want them to be better is not a reason they should be better.

Can they be better than average? In short spurts, I would say most definitely. Can they rise above it and be a 9+ win team consistently, I would say no, and the last 40 or 50 years would bear that out.

What I still can not figure out is why some many of our fans either think the program has been better than than average the last 40 or 50 years or think, in spite of the numbers, the program should be better. Nothing, not one thing from recruiting base to resources to finances to location- NOTHING - says this program is or should be above average.

What a bunch of crap.  You know what the Hogs are?  About the 20th best team in the history of the NCAA.  And NONE of the other teams on that list engage in this BS.  What a load!

[hogsanity]

Nothing.  You began your OP by stating that 68% of all FBS teams won 8 or fewer games this season.  We had clear paths to 9 wins in each of the past 2 years.   You're right, of course, that 9 wins don't represent a magical season, but lots of us would be feeling better about the program if we were 9-4, 9-4 the past two years instead of 8-5, 7-6.   We've had opportunities these past 2 years and have kicked them away.  That's frustrating.

Why? What would 9-4 have gotten the program? I guess this year at 8-4 they would have gotten a more fan friendly bowl in Nashville.

[Brandon72]

how you get to your record matters.

This ^^^

[KennyForAD]

When you have the facilities, the budget, the ticket sales, the attendance, and the fanbase that Arkansas has, it should not be an average program. So your premise is wrong to start out.

If Arkansas had a stadium that held 40,000, had a RF that took in only a few million per year, and paid its head coach $800,000, then we would all be elated with 6 or 7 wins, wouldn't we?

P.S. Arkansas is about to add 3,000 seats, mostly luxury suite seats, at a cost of $160 million!!! That is not what an "average" program does or even can do. $50K per seat! Holy schnikeys!

Its just propaganda.  Just look at the outrageous lengths the OP went to in the attempt to 'prove' that the Hogs aren't supposed to be any better than the current coach's record.   Its unreal.

[hogsanity]

What a bunch of crap.  You know what the Hogs are?  About the 20th best team in the history of the NCAA.  And NONE of the other teams on that list engage in this BS.  What a load!

and according to the list there are 6 sec teams ranked ahead of them with 2 more in the next 5. Again, top 20 means about 7th in the sec, just like with recruiting.

http://collegefootballnews.com/2016/ap-college-football-rankings-greatest-programs-of-all-time

by decade the hogs were ranked 10th in the 70's, 20th in the 80's, 42nd in the 90's and 52nd in the 2000's. A huge drop since joining the SEC.

This list has Georgia Tech ranked in the top 25 all time too. They also have Army at 34, yet Army football has been nothing, nationally, for about 60 years.

[Ironhawg]

68% of all fbs teams won 8 or fewer games this season. Only 24 p5 teams ( out of 64 ) won 9 or more games, including bowl games. Average # of wins in the sec 7.5. Big 12 6.8  Big10 7  acc 7.6  pac12 7.

So please stop with the " Arkansas is a laughing stock "  " Arkansas is an embarrassment " because they are not. They are a average college football program. Also stop with the " Arkansas should be so much better " unless you have some REAL reasons why that is so. Just because you want them to be better is not a reason they should be better.

Can they be better than average? In short spurts, I would say most definitely. Can they rise above it and be a 9+ win team consistently, I would say no, and the last 40 or 50 years would bear that out.

What I still can not figure out is why some many of our fans either think the program has been better than than average the last 40 or 50 years or think, in spite of the numbers, the program should be better. Nothing, not one thing from recruiting base to resources to finances to location- NOTHING - says this program is or should be above average.

I don't get this argument.  You are supposed to be a Razorback fan and you come on a Razorback fan forum trying to convince other Hog fans what a crappy, middle-of-the-road program Arkansas is?  To what end?  To enable more Arkansas fans to more easily accept mediocrity? 
Personally I don't think Arkansas belongs in the SEC in football.  We have significant disadvantages in location and population base that make it highly unlikely that we will ever win an SEC football championship.  But this is where we are, so we just have to endure and hope that  a miracle someday falls into our laps.  The alternative is to drop down in competition level.  I don't know how Razorback fans would accept that idea, but probably not well.

[hogsanity]

I don't get this argument.  You are supposed to be a Razorback fan and you come on a Razorback fan forum trying to convince other Hog fans what a crappy, middle-of-the-road program Arkansas is?  To what end?  To enable more Arkansas fans to more easily accept mediocrity? 
Personally I don't think Arkansas belongs in the SEC in football.  We have significant disadvantages in location and population base that make it highly unlikely that we will ever win an SEC football championship.  But this is where we are, so we just have to endure and hope that  a miracle someday falls into our laps.  The alternative is to drop down in competition level.  I don't know how Razorback fans would accept that idea, but probably not well.

On the contrary, I do not think they are a crappy program at all. I am not the one on here constantly whining about how they "should" have won 9-10 games or how most fans plus the university "embrace mediocrity". I am perfectly comfortable with the program - it is not a national embarrassment, I am not ashamed to be a Hog fan.

I want them to win every game. I want them to be playing on the 2nd Monday In January, however I realize why they are not, and it has very little to do with the coach, whoever that coach is. I just do not get bent out of shape every time they lose ( I used to be that way, but quite frankly, life is too short for that ).

[Pork Twain]

When you have the facilities, the budget, the ticket sales, the attendance, and the fanbase that Arkansas has, it should not be an average program. So your premise is wrong to start out.

If Arkansas had a stadium that held 40,000, had a RF that took in only a few million per year, and paid its head coach $800,000, then we would all be elated with 6 or 7 wins, wouldn't we?

P.S. Arkansas is about to add 3,000 seats, mostly luxury suite seats, at a cost of $160 million!!! That is not what an "average" program does or even can do. $50K per seat! Holy schnikeys!

None of that creates top recruits in the state.

[wildturkey8]

How many top recruits does the state of Oklahoma produce? 

[jabberjawls]

Why? What would 9-4 have gotten the program? I guess this year at 8-4 they would have gotten a more fan friendly bowl in Nashville.

I would take 9-4 over 7-6 any day. According to your stats we are mediocre.  Those who accept mediocrity are destined to fail.

[lutherheggs]

None of that creates top recruits in the state.

I did not say it does. Nevertheless, all is fact and those facts are not attributes of an average program. Not even close.

[hogsanity]

I would take 9-4 over 7-6 any day. According to your stats we are mediocre.  Those who accept mediocrity are destined to fail.

So 9-4 and a trip to Nashville is superlative, but 7-6 and a trip to Charlotte is mediocre? Neither wins any titles.