well well well

[slopinhogs]

this team seeminhly does not have the talent we gave them credit for. they have been doing the sme things form four years now and i don't think they can change. coach Pel can coach til he is blue but they won't change. :razorback:

[mbgrulz]

Thank you!!!!

the whole 'talented' deal has been really getting under my skin lately. if you watch some of the top tier teams, it is obvious that we are behind in that department.

we lack a true PG

we don't have a Mcdonald's AA

we don't have a 5*

no go to guy

we're small in the backcourt

we shoot poorly from 3/free throws

i still think we can/will win the SEC west, but it will take pel getting his guys in here before you see the same ole mistakes stopped. 

[jgphillips3]

coach Pel can coach til he is blue but they won't change. :razorback:

Please don't use the word "blue" and Coach Pel in the same sentence.  That is the thought that keeps me up at night.

[Brand X Hog Fan]

Please don't use the word "blue" and Coach Pel in the same sentence.  That is the thought that keeps me up at night.

LOL!

You guys are right about the talent but Pel is doing a good job of coaching what he has. The loss yesterday was due to an abrupt loss of momentum on the part of the team. You can't coach that. Strategically, Pel was sound though he probably could have played a little more zone at times to pressure the perimeter. As boarcephus said in another thread, this year, and next frankly, are about transition. It should still be a fun season and the Hogs should be in every game, playing hard.

[Oliver]

this team seeminhly does not have the talent we gave them credit for. they have been doing the sme things form four years now and i don't think they can change. coach Pel can coach til he is blue but they won't change. :razorback:

You are correct.  I see great things once Pel gets his recruits in here but this team is what it has been the last 3 years...mediocre.

[Sir Squeal-A-Lot]

I just hope Coach Pel dont give up on us... I hope he will stick around and give the guys HES recruiting a chance...
I love seeing him on the side line coaching... It makes me excited to watch Hog basketball!!!

Go Hogs!!!

[L.A.]

Strategically, Pel was sound though he probably could have played a little more zone at times to pressure the perimeter.

When we played zone though they killed us with the three ball.  I thought the teams were pretty evenly matched it just so happened that they got hot from beyond the arc.  I think if these two teams played 10 times it would probably be a 50/50 split.

[dmac4sainthood]

This is proof that the fans here have no clue.  I spent 4 years on campus and have followed the Hogs like a fan ought to since I left, I have less and less faith in what Hog fans know about the sport of basketball.

Go back and look at the recruitment of each Hog...look at the other offers they had.  While I don't put much stock into national recruiting rankings, since everyone else does, go look at those.  They are talented players...very talented players.

Don't have a true PG?  When you had a set up point guard...you cursed him...you said you don't do anything Dontell...well except defend his butt off and distribute the ball to scorers. 

Don't have a go to guy?  Beverley is having a slow start, but because he has a slow start, he is no longer a great player?

Don't have a 5?  The Hogs have more good post players than any other program in the country.  Find me a program with 2 5s like Hill and Townes, and a 4/5 like Washington....not to mention another solid 4 man in Thomas.

No size in backcourt?  Who cares! If players can play, they can play!  Sure size makes up for lacks in athleticism and skill...but I'd rather have athletic and or skilled players.  See below as to who the best 1/2 in the SEC are, and I'd ask, are either over 6'2"?

Free throws and shooting need to improve.
No McDonald's AA....thats a big who gives a ****.  I am definitely about great players, I agree.  Do I put nearly as much stock in that, no!  Look at the best players at each position in the SEC.  Lets go from 1-5.  1.Steele (yes I know he is sitting out, but he is still great) Not a MAA 2.Lofton Nope (Heck, his recruiting ranking weren't that high either)  3. Jamont Gordon Not a MAA (I believe) 4. Charles Rhodes...I think he may have been, or at least a parade MAA...but he is a fantastic player.  5. Who is the best 5 in the SEC?  Speights from Florida?  He'd probably get my vote.

The point is, because you guys want to give Pel a chance...you go from judging Stan by saying he isn't winning with great talent, to well obviously since Pel can't do it, they aren't that talented, which is foolish!

Be consistant.  They aren't Pel's players, and he will get his chance to win with his own players, but if there is a better opportunity to have the table set for you when you come in, I'd like to see it.

[forrest city joe]

I said it when Stan was here and i will say it now. this team has never had all the talent people say we have. just look at the players on other teams around the country. we all need to give Pel time to get some great players in here. the players Stan left are good kids.but they have had 2 coaches and going on 4 years to get it done on the road. the kids just can't get it done. i still support them and Pel.

[dmac4sainthood]

I said it when Stan was here and i will say it now. this team has never had all the talent people say we have. just look at the players on other teams around the country. we all need to give Pel time to get some great players in here. the players Stan left are good kids.but they have had 2 coaches and going on 4 years to get it done on the road. the kids just can't get it done. i still support them and Pel.

As much as I think it was a mistake to let Stan go, I do support Pel and wish him all the success...just so folks don't get me wrong.

But I still think firing Stan was stupid and it part of the underlying problem with a vast majority or a vocal minority (haven't decided yet) of Arkansas Razorback fans.

[bd93]

Welcome to my ignore list brotha.

[dmac4sainthood]

Welcome to my ignore list brotha.

Happy I made it Houston.

[TuckFexas]

As much as I think it was a mistake to let Stan go, I do support Pel and wish him all the success...just so folks don't get me wrong.

But I still think firing Stan was stupid and it part of the underlying problem with a vast majority or a vocal minority (haven't decided yet) of Arkansas Razorback fans.

5 years, 2 trips to the NCAAT, 0 wins in the NCAAT. I'll even take away the first 2 years due to the mess Stan walked into. 3 years, 2 trips to the NCAAT, 0 wins in the NCAAT. You've stated the type of talent on this team, so how can you defend the degree to which the team underachieved under SH the past 2 seasons? The team regressed last year from the previous year. It was time for Stan to go, whether you liked the guy or not.

[chiefsfan]

This is proof that the fans here have no clue.  I spent 4 years on campus and have followed the Hogs like a fan ought to since I left, I have less and less faith in what Hog fans know about the sport of basketball.

Go back and look at the recruitment of each Hog...look at the other offers they had.  While I don't put much stock into national recruiting rankings, since everyone else does, go look at those.  They are talented players...very talented players.

Don't have a true PG?  When you had a set up point guard...you cursed him...you said you don't do anything Dontell...well except defend his butt off and distribute the ball to scorers. 

Don't have a go to guy?  Beverley is having a slow start, but because he has a slow start, he is no longer a great player?

Don't have a 5?  The Hogs have more good post players than any other program in the country.  Find me a program with 2 5s like Hill and Townes, and a 4/5 like Washington....not to mention another solid 4 man in Thomas.

No size in backcourt?  Who cares! If players can play, they can play!  Sure size makes up for lacks in athleticism and skill...but I'd rather have athletic and or skilled players.  See below as to who the best 1/2 in the SEC are, and I'd ask, are either over 6'2"?

Free throws and shooting need to improve.
No McDonald's AA....thats a big who gives a ****.  I am definitely about great players, I agree.  Do I put nearly as much stock in that, no!  Look at the best players at each position in the SEC.  Lets go from 1-5.  1.Steele (yes I know he is sitting out, but he is still great) Not a MAA 2.Lofton Nope (Heck, his recruiting ranking weren't that high either)  3. Jamont Gordon Not a MAA (I believe) 4. Charles Rhodes...I think he may have been, or at least a parade MAA...but he is a fantastic player.  5. Who is the best 5 in the SEC?  Speights from Florida?  He'd probably get my vote.

The point is, because you guys want to give Pel a chance...you go from judging Stan by saying he isn't winning with great talent, to well obviously since Pel can't do it, they aren't that talented, which is foolish!

Be consistant.  They aren't Pel's players, and he will get his chance to win with his own players, but if there is a better opportunity to have the table set for you when you come in, I'd like to see it.

Your logic is flawed.  Stan signed some good players, but he was horrible at developing talent.   Steven Hill was a top center in high school.  At Arkansas he averages about 3 points a game in his career and often has to be pulled in key spots because he's such a liability on offense

Look at Darian Townes, he did nothing for 3 years.   Walked off the court at a game once.   Stan Leaves, new coach comes in and suddenly Townes is our best player...  Using your logic we should give all the credit for this great find who did lickity split for 3 years and then suddenly developed into a good post player

Sonny Weems was a top 2 JUCO recruit coming in.   He has underperformed since he got here

Gary Ervin...well lets not even go there

Vincent Hunter, a  6-10 big man who think's he's a point guard, cant defend, cant dribble and really isnt a very good shooter either....yes sir, great find stan

[Pignominious]

This is proof that the fans here have no clue.  I spent 4 years on campus and have followed the Hogs like a fan ought to since I left, I have less and less faith in what Hog fans know about the sport of basketball.

Go back and look at the recruitment of each Hog...look at the other offers they had.  While I don't put much stock into national recruiting rankings, since everyone else does, go look at those.  They are talented players...very talented players.

Don't have a true PG?  When you had a set up point guard...you cursed him...you said you don't do anything Dontell...well except defend his butt off and distribute the ball to scorers. 

Don't have a go to guy?  Beverley is having a slow start, but because he has a slow start, he is no longer a great player?

Don't have a 5?  The Hogs have more good post players than any other program in the country.  Find me a program with 2 5s like Hill and Townes, and a 4/5 like Washington....not to mention another solid 4 man in Thomas.

No size in backcourt?  Who cares! If players can play, they can play!  Sure size makes up for lacks in athleticism and skill...but I'd rather have athletic and or skilled players.  See below as to who the best 1/2 in the SEC are, and I'd ask, are either over 6'2"?

Free throws and shooting need to improve.
No McDonald's AA....thats a big who gives a ****.  I am definitely about great players, I agree.  Do I put nearly as much stock in that, no!  Look at the best players at each position in the SEC.  Lets go from 1-5.  1.Steele (yes I know he is sitting out, but he is still great) Not a MAA 2.Lofton Nope (Heck, his recruiting ranking weren't that high either)  3. Jamont Gordon Not a MAA (I believe) 4. Charles Rhodes...I think he may have been, or at least a parade MAA...but he is a fantastic player.  5. Who is the best 5 in the SEC?  Speights from Florida?  He'd probably get my vote.

The point is, because you guys want to give Pel a chance...you go from judging Stan by saying he isn't winning with great talent, to well obviously since Pel can't do it, they aren't that talented, which is foolish!

Be consistant.  They aren't Pel's players, and he will get his chance to win with his own players, but if there is a better opportunity to have the table set for you when you come in, I'd like to see it.

I'm not buying that one bit. 

'Talented' on paper yes.  But to this point all of Stan's recruits 'his' guys have been very unproductive.  Go back and look at the Famatimi's, Hill's, D. Jefferson's, etc.  Stan all held out for these guys and they haven't produced.  Hill has barely done anything except block shots.  Jefferson couldn't dribble or score.  Famatimi just flat out missed shots.  Yea they are talented on paper, but every hight major program in the country gets guys like that.  You have to able to take the elite guys away to win.

Beverley is a great player, love his attitude and scrap but he is shooting 36% from the field this year.  That is not what I want my go-to guy to have.  A 6-1 combo guard shooting 36% is not your best first option.

Our big men have been alarmingly unproductive for the past 4 years.  Steven Hill has averaged just over 3 boards a game his entire career.  I'm sorry as a 7 footer you've got to be better than that.  Thomas and Townes have also at times been very inconsistant.  As Steve Lavin put it 'if you're that big and skilled you are probably in the league now'.  I just don't buy that we have true 'great' posts.  Defensively top notch.  Offensively not so much.

Yea size in the backcourt doesn't matter if you shoot lights out but if you don't you are severley limited.  Then you become a defensive liability. 

If those are the best 5 players in the SEC it would explain why the league is so down.  There is no top flight talent here.  And the Hogs don't have it either.

[texhog]

I don't know if "talented" is a word I would use to describe Heath's recruits.  Athletic...yes.  To me, talented implies a combination of athletic skill and know how.  From what I've been able to see the past few years, most of these guys don't have a very good basketball IQ.  I'll advised shot selection; out of control into traffic; leaving their feet with no plan where to go with the ball; not running the offense; and would it kill anybody to learn how to make free throws? Worst of all, I still don't see anyone who I could definitely say was the team leader.  Point is, Heath brought these guys in and didn't make them better and what we saw yesterday is very consistent with what we've seen the last several years.   So, either these guys were over-rated when they came here, or they just have not been developed.

[dmac4sainthood]

5 years, 2 trips to the NCAAT, 0 wins in the NCAAT. I'll even take away the first 2 years due to the mess Stan walked into. 3 years, 2 trips to the NCAAT, 0 wins in the NCAAT. You've stated the type of talent on this team, so how can you defend the degree to which the team underachieved under SH the past 2 seasons? The team regressed last year from the previous year. It was time for Stan to go, whether you liked the guy or not.

Here goes:
1) Don't say 5 years...we all knew when he was hired his first 2 years were a pass.  Was he here 5 years, absolutly.  Was he expected by anybody to make the dance before year 3 at the earliest...no, I think Heath was on schedule.

2) Ok, he was 0-2 in the tournament...but yet some people wanted Bill Self as his replacement?  The biggest underachiever in all of college basketball?

3) So when he makes the dance in year 4, but slightly regresses in year 5 (now why, lets see expecting Ronnie Brewer and Olu Famutimi to be Seniors in year 5 might have a little bit to do with it...but) you make year 6 the hot year.  While it was close, he did make the tournament.  Here is my question...how much did he underacheive?  Are you suggesting if he beats USC...who wound up going to the Sweet 16 by the way...he gets to keep his job?  Basically, you are trying to tell me that the fans are so shortsighted that because of one game, they alter the entire long range direction of the program?

[TuckFexas]

Here goes:
1) Don't say 5 years...we all knew when he was hired his first 2 years were a pass.  Was he here 5 years, absolutly.  Was he expected by anybody to make the dance before year 3 at the earliest...no, I think Heath was on schedule.

2) Ok, he was 0-2 in the tournament...but yet some people wanted Bill Self as his replacement?  The biggest underachiever in all of college basketball?

3) So when he makes the dance in year 4, but slightly regresses in year 5 (now why, lets see expecting Ronnie Brewer and Olu Famutimi to be Seniors in year 5 might have a little bit to do with it...but) you make year 6 the hot year.  While it was close, he did make the tournament.  Here is my question...how much did he underacheive?  Are you suggesting if he beats USC...who wound up going to the Sweet 16 by the way...he gets to keep his job?  Basically, you are trying to tell me that the fans are so shortsighted that because of one game, they alter the entire long range direction of the program?

1) Re-read my post.

2) Ummm....Yes.

3) It took a great run in the SECT to even make the NCAAT, when there were other teams who got snubbed that probably shouldn't have. I'm suggesting he shouldn't have gotten his ass handed too him against USC, and lost to Bucknell the year before. Basically, you missed my point.

[mbgrulz]

This is proof that the fans here have no clue.  I spent 4 years on campus and have followed the Hogs like a fan ought to since I left, I have less and less faith in what Hog fans know about the sport of basketball.

Don't have a true PG?  When you had a set up point guard...you cursed him...you said you don't do anything Dontell...well except defend his butt off and distribute the ball to scorers. 

Don't have a go to guy?  Beverley is having a slow start, but because he has a slow start, he is no longer a great player?

Don't have a 5?  The Hogs have more good post players than any other program in the country.  Find me a program with 2 5s like Hill and Townes, and a 4/5 like Washington....not to mention another solid 4 man in Thomas.

No size in backcourt?  Who cares! If players can play, they can play!  Sure size makes up for lacks in athleticism and skill...but I'd rather have athletic and or skilled players.  See below as to who the best 1/2 in the SEC are, and I'd ask, are either over 6'2"?

Free throws and shooting need to improve.
No McDonald's AA....thats a big who gives a ****.  I am definitely about great players, I agree.  Do I put nearly as much stock in that, no!  Look at the best players at each position in the SEC.  Lets go from 1-5.  1.Steele (yes I know he is sitting out, but he is still great) Not a MAA 2.Lofton Nope (Heck, his recruiting ranking weren't that high either)  3. Jamont Gordon Not a MAA (I believe) 4. Charles Rhodes...I think he may have been, or at least a parade MAA...but he is a fantastic player.  5. Who is the best 5 in the SEC?  Speights from Florida?  He'd probably get my vote.

The point is, because you guys want to give Pel a chance...you go from judging Stan by saying he isn't winning with great talent, to well obviously since Pel can't do it, they aren't that talented, which is foolish!

Be consistant.  They aren't Pel's players, and he will get his chance to win with his own players, but if there is a better opportunity to have the table set for you when you come in, I'd like to see it.

first of all, you really don't want to get into a pissing match with me on basketball knowledge.

i said we don't have a 5 star player, not that we don't have a 5. the interior is our brightest spot so far..

you don't win the big one's without McD's AA's. its proven. you're throwing out guys off of teams that are losing worse than us, that is almost as bad as arguing that dontell jefferson was a productive player.

[dmac4sainthood]

first of all, you really don't want to get into a pissing match with me on basketball knowledge.

i said we don't have a 5 star player, not that we don't have a 5. the interior is our brightest spot so far..

you don't win the big one's without McD's AA's. its proven. you're throwing out guys off of teams that are losing worse than us, that is almost as bad as arguing that dontell jefferson was a productive player.

Sorry, I misread...I must have missed your asterisk. 

A pissing match about basketball knowledge huh...ok, you take the "I read rivals recruiting board "knowledge, and I will take my knowledge of the diamond press, the flex, shuffle, or any other offense you want, zone-man...basically your knowledge of basketball is totally based off recruiting rankings...because we should put so much stock in to those. (ask Charlie Weiss...I know its a different sport, but still) Unlike you, I have concrete knowledge of the game.  I understand that to really know what is going on, you have to do little things like watch all 10 players on the floor, and not just stare at the ball.

Ok, so no one has won the NC without a McD AA.  Ill give you that, but you can be a very good team without them...heck George Mason went to the final 4, the the West Virginia team with Pittsnogle should have went (I don't believe KP was a McDAA).  Teams without those guys are more than capeable of winning it, it just hasn't happened...i.e. Marquette with Dwyane Wade.  They have been in position to win it.  I am not saying that having good players isn't important, you need to have great players.  I am just not obsessed with recruiting rankings.  I do something called let the coaches evaluate the talent, then recruit who they want, and not judge them until their wins and losses come in.

For the record that will end this year, because Georgetown is going to win the national Championship.  I don't believe that G-Town has a McD AA...though correct me if I am wrong, because that isn't exactly a great basketball game worth watching.  I am much more into the players we already have, than worrying about if our player we recruited is #25 or #26.  (All a 5 Star means is that he was a top 25 player in HS, sometimes if it is borderline, they will throw 2 or 3 more in.)

Then again, our fans would hate it if the Hogs were G-Town because they don't press enough, score enough, and spend too much time in the half court for our fans to not have their ADD take over.  We like to have our success, and our style of play!

Also, Jefferson was a productive player in what he was asked to do.
A)Distribute...he did a fine job of that
B)Limit TO's...he did a fine job of that
C)Defend....He was the best perimeter on-ball defender on the floor any time he was out...yes way better than Brewer...Ronnie couldn't guard anyone once they had the ball.
DJ wasn't asked to score...is that his fault?  He was a very solid player.

Correct, if you look at a stat sheet, you would think that DJ didn't exist out there.  That is where having an understanding of the game comes into play.  Just like people think Steven Hill doesn't rebound.  Yeah, he doesn't get many, but neither does the man who he blocks out, which is equally important.

Apparently from what you are saying to me, you have a statistical knowledge of the game, not a visual knowledge of the game.  You may need to work on that.

[L.A.]

Don't have a 5?  The Hogs have more good post players than any other program in the country.  Find me a program with 2 5s like Hill and Townes, and a 4/5 like Washington....not to mention another solid 4 man in Thomas.

UCLA:  Center-Kevin Love, Center-Lorenzo Mata-Rael, Forward-Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, Forward/Center-Alfred Aboya

There I named you another team, and I am sure there are more out there with our talent in the front court

[mbgrulz]

Sorry, I misread...I must have missed your asterisk. 

A pissing match about basketball knowledge huh...ok, you take the "I read rivals recruiting board "knowledge, and I will take my knowledge of the diamond press, the flex, shuffle, or any other offense you want, zone-man...basically your knowledge of basketball is totally based off recruiting rankings...because we should put so much stock in to those. (ask Charlie Weiss...I know its a different sport, but still) Unlike you, I have concrete knowledge of the game.  I understand that to really know what is going on, you have to do little things like watch all 10 players on the floor, and not just stare at the ball.

Ok, so no one has won the NC without a McD AA.  Ill give you that, but you can be a very good team without them...heck George Mason went to the final 4, the the West Virginia team with Pittsnogle should have went (I don't believe KP was a McDAA).  Teams without those guys are more than capeable of winning it, it just hasn't happened...i.e. Marquette with Dwyane Wade.  They have been in position to win it.  I am not saying that having good players isn't important, you need to have great players.  I am just not obsessed with recruiting rankings.  I do something called let the coaches evaluate the talent, then recruit who they want, and not judge them until their wins and losses come in.

For the record that will end this year, because Georgetown is going to win the national Championship.  I don't believe that G-Town has a McD AA...though correct me if I am wrong, because that isn't exactly a great basketball game worth watching.  I am much more into the players we already have, than worrying about if our player we recruited is #25 or #26.  (All a 5 Star means is that he was a top 25 player in HS, sometimes if it is borderline, they will throw 2 or 3 more in.)

Then again, our fans would hate it if the Hogs were G-Town because they don't press enough, score enough, and spend too much time in the half court for our fans to not have their ADD take over.  We like to have our success, and our style of play!

Also, Jefferson was a productive player in what he was asked to do.
A)Distribute...he did a fine job of that
B)Limit TO's...he did a fine job of that
C)Defend....He was the best perimeter on-ball defender on the floor any time he was out...yes way better than Brewer...Ronnie couldn't guard anyone once they had the ball.
DJ wasn't asked to score...is that his fault?  He was a very solid player.

Correct, if you look at a stat sheet, you would think that DJ didn't exist out there.  That is where having an understanding of the game comes into play.  Just like people think Steven Hill doesn't rebound.  Yeah, he doesn't get many, but neither does the man who he blocks out, which is equally important.

Apparently from what you are saying to me, you have a statistical knowledge of the game, not a visual knowledge of the game.  You may need to work on that.

do you want my recruiting knowledge or my 3rd generation basketball coach knowledge? you pick.

i'll dominate you in X's and O's and/or recruiting.

i will give you credit for busting out shuffle. whether you know what you are talking about or not, that does make me think you might have a little knowledge, your posts suggest otherwise though.

[Kevin]

college basketball is dominated by skilled guards.

beverly & welsh are skilled shooting guards,

we don't have a skilled point guard.

put kareem reid or corey beck on this team, then everyone is better.

everyone on the team is having to handle the ball too much because we don't have a point guard.

plus, you cannot have a senior starter being late for the bus.  i not sure this team is very smart with some decisions.  every 3 or 4 games, we seem to have a problem.

i will root had for this team, but i am ready for some new players.

[razorback93]

We have some talent, just not a lot of basketball savy, in my non-expert opinon.  Gary Earvin has SEC talent.  He is quick, athletic, and a decent shooter.  He just doesn't have it between the ears.  I don't mean overall intelligence;  he just doesn't seem to have basketball sense.  The same with Weems

[dmac4sainthood]

UCLA:  Center-Kevin Love, Center-Lorenzo Mata-Rael, Forward-Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, Forward/Center-Alfred Aboya

There I named you another team, and I am sure there are more out there with our talent in the front court

Good research!  +1
UCLA is very very good.  They have the most underappreciated coach in the country too.  He does a very good job, and they are always well prepared.

[dmac4sainthood]

do you want my recruiting knowledge or my 3rd generation basketball coach knowledge? you pick.

i'll dominate you in X's and O's and/or recruiting.

i will give you credit for busting out shuffle. whether you know what you are talking about or not, that does make me think you might have a little knowledge, your posts suggest otherwise though.

Youll bust me in x & o...yeah right.  Actually, if you claim you are a coach, I'd be more than happy to talk x & o with you.  I trust you wouldn't make that up.

Recruiting, I will give you...because I don't follow it.

I would be excited if you could actually explain the flex to me.  Since flex could quite possibly be the most simple offense on the planet, I'd love to hear you do it.  (I am just messing with you)

With all respect to the flex, it actually is a solid offense, but it is so overly simple.  When a team uses it as a set play, it works well because it has good action, but when its run over and over and over again, it really depends on your great players being able to improv.

Since I do trust you have some x & o knowledge because you claim you do, I am curious what your offense of choice is.  I go with princeton.

Honestly, I wish the Hogs ran it.  Not our current hogs, absolutly wrong kind of personnel for it.  Steven Hill in the princeton would be like the new subway jared at a chinese buffet...not a good idea.  Then again, Roy Hibbert has done a great job being a post based player in the princeton.  But for a big Hibbert does pass and handle extremly well.

[hogsanity]

By this age, guys that cant shoot, are not going to become good shooters.  Guys that dont like to play more than 2 minutes without getting th ball ( townes ) will continue to pout when they dont get the ball.  Guys who do not recognize where the 3pt shooters are will continue to let teams rip them from 19'9".  Pel can coach all he wants, and they do look more intense, but the problems, as noted in the start of the thread, are basically the same as they have been.

[Razorback88]

A pissing match about basketball knowledge huh...ok, you take the "I read rivals recruiting board "knowledge, and I will take my knowledge of the diamond press, the flex, shuffle, or any other offense you want, zone-man...basically your knowledge of basketball is totally based off recruiting rankings...because we should put so much stock in to those. (ask Charlie Weiss...I know its a different sport, but still) Unlike you, I have concrete knowledge of the game.  I understand that to really know what is going on, you have to do little things like watch all 10 players on the floor, and not just stare at the ball.

Wow, you can draw up the flex offense and explain how players rotate on a press.  Those are definitely grounds to have a little cockiness.  If you think Stan was a good coach beyond recruiting, you obviously have a very closed mind.