SBN = Summer Bird

[kingoftherapids]

did anyone see that gallop out. he went past nyquist pretty quick after the wire. you can see it on replay. if they hold him out of preakness which i hope they do, he will be a force in new york. He was the second best horse today no doubt. no offense to luis q and the loyalty which i love but he needs to get him in the race aabout 40 yards quicker. his last 3 starts can be argued as winning races.

[cbhawg03]

did anyone see that gallop out. he went past nyquist pretty quick after the wire. you can see it on replay. if they hold him out of preakness which i hope they do, he will be a force in new york. He was the second best horse today no doubt. no offense to luis q and the loyalty which i love but he needs to get him in the race aabout 40 yards quicker. his last 3 starts can be argued as winning races.

Think might be more like Victory Gallop spoiling Triple Crown bid.

Agree on jock though, why I said if he changed places with Santana then SBN might have won at Oaklawn cause of way Santana will ride.

[HogFanInBryant]

With all due respect, I am not sure if most understand how high the cruising speed is on a horse like Nyquist.  If SBN is a really nice Buick...then Nyquist is a limited edition Jaguar.  I don't think the 2 can be compared.  Nyquist sat right off a suicidal pace and then easily won the Derby.  What he did yesterday is similar to Bodemeister, but he did it much easier.  Many say Bodemeister's 2nd in the Derby is more impressive than many of the Derby victories.  I am not sure any in this crop of 3 year olds have the ability to threaten Nyquist unless he has an absolute disaster of some type God forbid.  I may be totally wrong, but it looks like 37 years of head-scratching will be erased in back to back years.

[kingoftherapids]

the gallop out told me all i needed to know. nyquist was slowing down quickly after the wire compared to SBN. and i realize nyquist was on a hot pace. that track was as quick as churchill gets yesterday and a really good front runner held a big advantage and that is what happened. the champ has done nothing wrong and he deserved that win but you tell me a rested SBN at a 12 furlongs isn't going to put the fear into the o'neill camp? it isn't the kentucky derby preakness that is hard. its the belmont. and while it seems so doable now because of what just happened with pharoah and nyquist being undefeated and pretty dominant, the belmont is a whole different animal as we all know.

[HogFanInBryant]

the gallop out told me all i needed to know. nyquist was slowing down quickly after the wire compared to SBN. and i realize nyquist was on a hot pace. that track was as quick as churchill gets yesterday and a really good front runner held a big advantage and that is what happened. the champ has done nothing wrong and he deserved that win but you tell me a rested SBN at a 12 furlongs isn't going to put the fear into the o'neill camp? it isn't the kentucky derby preakness that is hard. its the belmont. and while it seems so doable now because of what just happened with pharoah and nyquist being undefeated and pretty dominant, the belmont is a whole different animal as we all know.

I do agree, but SBN doesn't seem classy enough to do it in my opinion.  Plus I'm just not a believer after he wasn't able to beat the weak group at Oaklawn in the Rebel or Ark Dby.  I don't think he will be the one to do it honestly but could be wrong.

[heavylifting]

With all due respect, I am not sure if most understand how high the cruising speed is on a horse like Nyquist.  If SBN is a really nice Buick...then Nyquist is a limited edition Jaguar.  I don't think the 2 can be compared.  Nyquist sat right off a suicidal pace and then easily won the Derby.  What he did yesterday is similar to Bodemeister, but he did it much easier.  Many say Bodemeister's 2nd in the Derby is more impressive than many of the Derby victories.  I am not sure any in this crop of 3 year olds have the ability to threaten Nyquist unless he has an absolute disaster of some type God forbid.  I may be totally wrong, but it looks like 37 years of head-scratching will be erased in back to back years.

Agree totally. This scenario reminds me of the 1970s. 25 years between Citation and Secretariat, and then you had Little Current (would have won in '74 if the field hadn't been what, 23 horses, or so before winning the Preakness and Belmont), Seattle Slew, Affirmed/Alydar and Spectacular Bid (no need rehashing that sad tale). They seem to come in waves. COWABUNGA!!!

[oldman1015]

the gallop out told me all i needed to know. nyquist was slowing down quickly after the wire compared to SBN. and i realize nyquist was on a hot pace. that track was as quick as churchill gets yesterday and a really good front runner held a big advantage and that is what happened. the champ has done nothing wrong and he deserved that win but you tell me a rested SBN at a 12 furlongs isn't going to put the fear into the o'neill camp? it isn't the kentucky derby preakness that is hard. its the belmont. and while it seems so doable now because of what just happened with pharoah and nyquist being undefeated and pretty dominant, the belmont is a whole different animal as we all know.

skip the Preakness and get a new jockey and I would like his chances in the Belmont.

[kingoftherapids]

skip the Preakness and get a new jockey and I would like his chances in the Belmont.

my thoughts exactly. he was 18th at the top of the stretch. have we ever seen that a horse close like that in the derby? he was basically the only one that was flying at the end.

[riccoar]

I'm well below a novice at this, but my guess is the Preakness is in Nyquist wheel house.  Him losing there would be monumental.  I said Saturday, with a horse like SBN, I see another Birdstone moment in the Belmont.

[cbhawg03]

did anyone see that gallop out. he went past nyquist pretty quick after the wire. you can see it on replay. if they hold him out of preakness which i hope they do, he will be a force in new york. He was the second best horse today no doubt. no offense to luis q and the loyalty which i love but he needs to get him in the race aabout 40 yards quicker. his last 3 starts can be argued as winning races.

Think you have the wrong horse.  I would say Creator not SBN fits that role. 

Creator:

1/4: 25.90
1/2: 23.53
3/4: 22.98
1:    25.38
Fin: 26.63

SBN:

1/4: 26.41
1/2: 24.04
3/4: 23.15
1:    24.72
Fin:  23.79

Look at the move that Creator made meanwhile taking a body check turning for home then running into a dead Danzing Candy. I will take Creator over SBN.

[userpick]

Get Santana off Creator and he will have a better chance. He did the same shitt he does at Oaklawn. Almost caused a disaster too.

[kingoftherapids]

Think you have the wrong horse.  I would say Creator not SBN fits that role. 

Creator:

1/4: 25.90
1/2: 23.53
3/4: 22.98
1:    25.38
Fin: 26.63

SBN:

1/4: 26.41
1/2: 24.04
3/4: 23.15
1:    24.72
Fin:  23.79

Look at the move that Creator made meanwhile taking a body check turning for home then running into a dead Danzing Candy. I will take Creator over SBN.

im confused at what you are saying? creator ran the last halfmile in 52:01. SBN 48.51. that is equal to about 15 lengths difference.

[cbhawg03]

im confused at what you are saying? creator ran the last halfmile in 52:01. SBN 48.51. that is equal to about 15 lengths difference.

Look at move Creator was making. He was making that move then took a bodycheck and then had Danzing Candy collapse right in front of him, hence the slower final time, but he was moving lot faster than SBN.

[cbhawg03]

Get Santana off Creator and he will have a better chance. He did the same shitt he does at Oaklawn. Almost caused a disaster too.

Don't disagree that Santana can be reckless hence all the days he is facing, but I would rather have Santana than Luis Q. Santana will take risks, sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. Better than going 28 wide a la Ramon Vazquez.

Just like you can see a horse going straight to the rail out of the gate and know Borel was riding the horse, you can see a horse going to the parking lot turning for home and know its Ramon. Then he ends up getting beat a neck lol

[kingoftherapids]

Look at move Creator was making. He was making that move then took a bodycheck and then had Danzing Candy collapse right in front of him, hence the slower final time, but he was moving lot faster than SBN.

but both last quarters were considerably slower than sbn. not just one. did he have trouble in the entire last halfmile? i didnt go back and watch him in the replay yet.

[cbhawg03]

but both last quarters were considerably slower than sbn. not just one. did he have trouble in the entire last halfmile? i didnt go back and watch him in the replay yet.

go back and watch replay. takes body blow straightening for home and then runs into back of Danzing Candy

[cbhawg03]

My bad, wasn't him that ran into Danzing Candy, but does have lot of trouble turning for home. Then just quit running

[The Hogfather]

Think you have the wrong horse.  I would say Creator not SBN fits that role. 

Creator:

1/4: 25.90
1/2: 23.53
3/4: 22.98
1:    25.38
Fin: 26.63

SBN:

1/4: 26.41
1/2: 24.04
3/4: 23.15
1:    24.72
Fin:  23.79

Look at the move that Creator made meanwhile taking a body check turning for home then running into a dead Danzing Candy. I will take Creator over SBN.

Agreed!

[cbhawg03]

Only Nyquist, Gun Runner, Outwork and Danzing Candy ran a faster 1/4 than Creator, that was all their opening 1/4 of the race.

[userpick]

Watch out for Whitmore!! Had another bad trip. It was 100% Victor's fault. They will switch up jockeys and he will win the Preakness by 12 lengths! He was by far the best horse in the derby. That poor horse just can't catch a break.

[cbhawg03]

Watch out for Whitmore!! Had another bad trip. It was 100% Victor's fault. They will switch up jockeys and he will win the Preakness by 12 lengths! He was by far the best horse in the derby. That poor horse just can't catch a break.

Took the words right out of my mouth. I don't know what chart says, but he did seem lot closer early on than normal.

Whitmore:

1/4: 23.28
1/2: 23.55
3/4: 24.26
1:    26.52
Fin:  30.04

Only an eased Shagaf had a slower 1/4 than Whitmore.

Hear people before talking about how good he looked on track everyday leading up to Saturday.  That is his thing though, he always looks good and on the muscle, but unless he is in with a lesser group, you have to expect a performance like this.  They turn him back in distance though, he could be win some nice races.

[kingoftherapids]

man i hate to call you out, but your splits are wrong...
I dont know if you made them up or what but you can go here.
http://tnetwork.trakus.com/tnet/t_Churchill.aspx

Creator Splits:
First quarter 24.82    |    17th fastest
Second Quarter 23.46      |     18th Fastest
Third Quarter 23.72      |      2nd fastest
Fourth Quarter 25.66    |     11th fastest
Final Quarter  26.75    |    9th fastest
Final time and you can add these quarters up and you get his final time of 2:04:41

SuddenBreakingNews Splits:
First quarter 25.23    |    19th fastest
Second Quarter 23.90      |     20th Fastest
Third Quarter 23.69      |      Fastest in field
Fourth Quarter 24.62    |     Fastest in Field
Final Quarter  25.16    |     2nd fastest
Final time and you can add these quarters up and you get his final time of 2:02:60

[cbhawg03]

man i hate to call you out, but your splits are wrong...
I dont know if you made them up or what but you can go here.
http://tnetwork.trakus.com/tnet/t_Churchill.aspx

Creator Splits:
First quarter 24.82    |    17th fastest
Second Quarter 23.46      |     18th Fastest
Third Quarter 23.72      |      2nd fastest
Fourth Quarter 25.66    |     11th fastest
Final Quarter  26.75    |    9th fastest
Final time and you can add these quarters up and you get his final time of 2:04:41

SuddenBreakingNews Splits:
First quarter 25.23    |    19th fastest
Second Quarter 23.90      |     20th Fastest
Third Quarter 23.69      |      Fastest in field
Fourth Quarter 24.62    |     Fastest in Field
Final Quarter  25.16    |     2nd fastest
Final time and you can add these quarters up and you get his final time of 2:02:60

[kingoftherapids]

hahahaha ALWAYS use trakus when available. dont rely on hand held clockers with a 20 horse field. you can find out a lot of good info from trakus. like the fact that mohaymen ran 51 feet longer than SBN.

[cbhawg03]

hahahaha ALWAYS use trakus when available. dont rely on hand held clockers with a 20 horse field. you can find out a lot of good info from trakus. like the fact that mohaymen ran 51 feet longer than SBN.

man i just seen that on Twitter. Honestly haven't even looked at trakus to see if correct. didn't have reason to think was wrong.  but don't live under a rock, know what can be found and had by using trakus.

don't know for sure that hand held clockers. you know for sure?

[kingoftherapids]

Trakus delivers a reading 30 times per second on each horse.

It is a track bought system... could you imagine the amount of lawsuits if trakus is dishing out incorrect information. that can be called deceiving the betting public and everybody would be in a world of mess including the track.

[mckinneyhog5]

I'll stick with Exaggerator because he is the best closer in the field and it's not even close.  You add another 1/4 to the derby and he wins.

[cbhawg03]

Trakus delivers a reading 30 times per second on each horse.

It is a track bought system... could you imagine the amount of lawsuits if trakus is dishing out incorrect information. that can be called deceiving the betting public and everybody would be in a world of mess including the track.

Yea I know all that, somebody asked where the info came from, but never seen answer so not sure if hand held clocking a or what. Big differences in certain areas of the info from trakus though. Oaklawm needs to get it since have so many horses in each race. Know works best for turf races but will work same with large fields in dirt races. 

[Iwastherein1969]

I'll stick with Exaggerator because he is the best closer in the field and it's not even close.  You add another 1/4 to the derby and he wins.

Book all your win money on Exaggerator with me...these one dimensional plodders always show up late on the scene and gallop out like winners...but the race is ridden to the specs of the distance...horses like Exaggerator are fun to watch, but rarely deliver the knockout punch against superior horses...I'll talk front end speed and/or short closers every time over a deep closer

[HogFanInBryant]

Book all your win money on Exaggerator with me...these one dimensional plodders always show up late on the scene and gallop out like winners...but the race is ridden to the specs of the distance...horses like Exaggerator are fun to watch, but rarely deliver the knockout punch against superior horses...I'll talk front end speed and/or short closers every time over a deep closer

Zenyatta is the exception to this...right?