What might have been?

[hogsanity]

The scarey part is they may have been successful because they didnt coach at Arkansas.

Guess no one wanted to deal with this little comment, even though it may be the most insightful thing ever posted in mmqb.

Was JJ so successful at Miami because of the load of recruits in that area?

Was Akers so big because of how many TExas players he could sign, scarfing up all the best talent, and even if not using it, keeping it away from the rest of the swc?

Bryant - we did not miss on him, Pearl Harbor got bombed.  He was taking the job if that had not happened.

Switzer - only way he would have been here would have been if Broyles had retired about 10 years earlier

Strong, Tubberville, Davis - Eh, nothing really that special in that group.

[rlamb]

As far as the ones mentioned, frank wouldn't pay Barry enough to leave Zero U in 76 when he (Frank) retired.  That saying thta Barry told Frank he had maybe too many National Title teams he couildn't come back home for, at Zero is bull crap. Switzer would have come for the right money. And if he had of, we would have had 1 other NT trophy in the case.

Same with Jimmy Johnson. Frank was afraid of Jimmy's, accomplish the most you can, anyway you have to, mentality. That's what a school needs for National Titles. Jim Bailey and I both feel Jimmy would have won a NT here. Jim thought we would have been on probation, but guess what, we were anyway for nothing.

Butch Davis, maybe he could have, should have been hired by Frank the day Hatfiled left and he panicked and dargged the idiot Crowe off that plane?  I bet Butch would have come.  There was even a time in the mid 70's or so that Joe Gibbs, you know the guy that won 3 Super Bowls might been had here as he was an assistant here.

I feel if Gus had of been hired here, he would have us more like 6-4 right now. I think he would have beaten Rutgers as I don't think he would have ever let his team get so bad off that AJ Derby would have been 2nd team QB.  I think he might have beaten A&M and maybe Florida. Maybe Ole Miss? 

Let's see, who else might we have whiffed on, Fred Akers? I don't know, but Akers did get the best of Hatfield, even though 5 out of the 6 years Hatfiled was here, he clearly had the better team but he went 2-4 against the Whorns. Jimmy Johnson would have done better.

[DukeOfPork]

The scarey part is they may have been successful because they didnt coach at Arkansas.

Truth.  Every single one of those guys coached at schools that are easier to win at than at Arkansas.  As a career move, they each probably made a good decision to go elsewhere.

Would Jimmy Johnson have had the career he did if he had come to the UA instead of the U?  Almost certainly not.

[Hogwild]

8-4 at OK state in the late 70's was like 10-2 at the UA.  They had NOTHING.

And they didn't do anything after JJ left until Les Miles got there.

[MJ2]

Bear Bryant
Charlie McClendon

[hehawg]

"What Might Have Been"

Sure I think about you now and then But it's been a long, long time Well I've got a good life now, I moved on So when you cross my mind I try not to think about what might have been Cause that was then and We have taken different roads We can't go back again There's no use giving in And theres no way to know What might have been

[urkillnmesmalls]

If Gus continues to roll along as he is now and JL hire CBB continues to be the laughing stock of the league, there's going to be a lot of people wondering how did we let him get away, completely forgetting that he was unproven when Auburn took the chance on him and CBB was the better paper hire.

So today's catch phrase is "laughing stock" of the SEC I guess right? 

Let me ask you a simple question.  When the coaches picked us to finish DEAD LAST in the SEC this year, were they laughing then?  Because as far as I can see, we've accomplished just about exactly what we were predicted to do. 

It wasn't like we started out as a contender, and then everyone saw that we have a long way to go on defense, and then started laughing.  So I'm just curious...at what point did you think things turned us into the "laughing stock?" 

[Dropkick]

Gus is off to a great start at Auburn, so was Nutt here and at Ole Miss. Let's not put him in the Hall of Fame just yet. Coaching success is measured in years not weeks.

[MacHog19]

you have no idea of that.  so you should add probably.  but face the facts, gus is a better coach than BB, and he is versatile enough to handle the adversity of a bad team.  and 1 other little fact to add to the mix.....he is a better recruiter than BB so this team may have been a little better.  probably not much, but gus would not be 3-6 with this team.

So please tell us who St. Gus would have signed at Arkansas that would have changed anything.  St. Gus' situation at Auburn is completely different than Bielema's and you know it.  And pray tell us what brilliant coaching decisions Gus and his staff would have made that can quantifiably prove a different result for more wins?  You can't so you cannot prove that "Gus would not be 3-6 with this team" any more than the previous poster can assert to the contrary.

[Tusks]

so who recruited monte's players?  did monte play all FR?

Johnson was DC from '73-76.  Monte Kiffin was Holtz's DC from 77-79. Kiffin left for NC State job in 1980.  Johnson spent a couple years at Pitt (77 & 78) as Asst. HC/DC before taking the HC job at OK State.  That's the correct timeline. 

[Tusks]

well they had a player win the heisman and I believe won 10 games two seasons in a row.....LONG before Miles got there.

Don't argue that JJ is not an elite coach.....you look foolish.

And they didn't do anything after JJ left until Les Miles got there.

[Swine-as-wine]

you have no idea of that.  so you should add probably.  but face the facts, gus is a better coach than BB, and he is versatile enough to handle the adversity of a bad team.  and 1 other little fact to add to the mix.....he is a better recruiter than BB so this team may have been a little better.  probably not much, but gus would not be 3-6 with this team.

You left out something about Gus......he'd still be a high school coach. 

[Wayne Watson]

.he is a better recruiter than BB so this team may have been a little better.

And you base this on.....

[Pathogen]

"What Might Have Been"

Sure I think about you now and then But it's been a long, long time Well I've got a good life now, I moved on So when you cross my mind I try not to think about what might have been Cause that was then and We have taken different roads We can't go back again There's no use giving in And theres no way to know What might have been

Had no idea you thought that way about me.  And I think my life was better not knowing it. Actually, I know it was better. Now I'm all creeped out and thinking about moving to a remote cabin in Montana. And maybe getting a restraining order.

PS: Same old look in your eyes, It's a beautiful night, I'm so tempted to stay, But too much time has gone by, We should just say goodbye, And turn and walk away.

[FATHAWG08]

"What Might Have Been"

Sure I think about you now and then But it's been a long, long time Well I've got a good life now, I moved on So when you cross my mind I try not to think about what might have been Cause that was then and We have taken different roads We can't go back again There's no use giving in And theres no way to know What might have been

Exactly! Let's move on people, woulda,coulda,shoulda doesn't work. End of story. You're either Hog Fan or your the enemy it's your choice.

[Biggus Piggus]

when I am wrong I hope that I will admit it.  what I did in this case was look at wisc recruit rankings and what gus's team did in recruiting.  i have no idea what part gus played in the recruiting.  wisc was 41st  43rd  87th  40th and  56th.   auburn was 19th 4th 7th

And we have people on here who claim Bielema's system cannot work without elite recruits. Where the Frank do people get that? Some kind of extrapolation to Alabama? How about Wisconsin having been highly competitive running that stuff under Alvarez and Bielema for decades?

Let's go back to 1990, Alvarez's first season. From 1990-2012: How many times did Wisconsin beat opponents that finished with at least nine wins? The records are for games other than the one they played against the Badgers.

1. Bowling Green (10-1)
2. Penn State (9-2)
3. Purdue (9-3)
4. Penn State (9-2)
5. UCLA (10-1)
6. Michigan State (10-1)
7. Oregon (10-1)
8. Fresno State (9-4)
9. West Virginia (9-3)
10. Colorado (9-4)
11. Ohio State (11-1)
12. Auburn (9-2)
13. Penn State (9-3)
14. Arkansas (10-3)
15. Michigan (9-3)
16. Miami (9-3)
17. Ohio State (12-0)
18. Nebraska (9-3)
19. Penn State (9-3)
20. Michigan State (11-2)
21. Utah State (11-1)
22. Nebraska (10-3)

[Biggus Piggus]

Same span for Arkansas:

1. Colorado State (9-3)
2. Tennessee (9-2)
3. Tennessee (9-2)
4. Mississippi State (10-1)
5. Texas (9-4)
6. Boise State (10-1)
7. South Carolina (9-2)
8. Boise State (12-0)
9. South Florida (9-1)
10. Auburn (9-3)
11. Texas (10-2)
12. North Texas (9-3)
13. Auburn (11-1)
14. Tennessee (9-3)
15. LSU (12-1)
16. Troy (9-3)
17. East Carolina (9-4)
18. Texas A&M (9-3)
19. South Carolina (9-4)
20. Mississippi State (9-3)
21. LSU (11-1)
22. South Carolina (11-1)
23. Kansas State (10-2)
24. Tulsa (11-2)

Our list seems a little padded.

[jneal56]

1.) This guy has coached 5 different teams and his records during his first season with each school is:
9-2, 4-7, 7-4, 8-4, 4-8
2 out of 5 first years were losing seasons but not too horribly bad.

2.) This guy has coached 4 different teams......Has at least one NC
9-2, 6-4-1, 8-4, 6-6
No losing regular seasons so it's a stellar start but not barn burning awesome.

3.) This guy has coached just 1 team...
12-0
Has never had more than 3 losses in a season. Pretty spectacular!

4.) This guy has coached just 1 team....Has at least one NC
10-0-1
He never had more than 4 losses in a season. Excellent!

5.) This guy has coached 4 teams....Has at least one NC
6-2-1, 7-3, 1-9, 5-4-1
One hell of a resume for this guy.

6.) This guy has coached 4 teams...
4-7, 5-6, 9-2, 8-4
Not too good but not too bad.

7.) This guy coached 6 teams...Has at least one NC
3-7, 7-3-1, 10-1, 4-7, 5-6, 0-11
4 out of 6 first seasons were losing seasons. Can't coach his way out of a wet paper sack!

8.) This guy coached at 2 schools.....Has at least one NC.
7-4, 8-4
Both winners in first season. Can't argue with that.

9.) This guy coached at 4 schools....
2-9, 6-4, 9-2, 5-6
Half the time losing or winning depending if you're a glass half empty or full type.

10.) This guy coached 2 schools...Has at least one NC
7-4, 6-4-1













1.   John L. "Clown" Smith
2.   Nick Saban
3.   Chris Petersen
4.   Barry Switzer
5.   Bear Bryant
6.   Houston Nutt
7.   Lou Holtz
8.   Jimmy Johnson
9.   Kenny Hatfield
10. Lou Holtz

So Saban, Switzer, Johnson and Ford are the 4 guys with NC that never had a losing season in their first season with a team. If you count the bowl loss for Saban then he is not on this list because his first season at Alabama would be considered a losing season at 6-7.

Lou and the Bear both had horrific first seasons at least once and they still turned out alright.

Petersen is at BSU so that explains why his record hasn't produced a NC.

Nutt, the Clown and Hatfield we all witnessed what they can or can't do here. My whole point in all this is, you can't tell what is really going to happen from the first season records. Hell Ole Miss thought they were about to set the College Football world on fire after Nutt's first two years. We suffered that same crap back in 1998. Tell me Lou and the Bear are terrible coaches after both having a 1 win or 0 win first season.

Time will tell if BB can get it done. We are in the era now, no matter how old you are, we want things NOW! Instead of patience and building a program.

Smite me now. Wouldn't be right if I didn't get at least 1000 of them.

[IBleedRazorbackRed]

Gus at arkansas- inherited McFadden and Jones
Gus at Tulsa- inherited Senior QB David Johnson
Gus at Auburn- inherited Cam
Gus at StAte- inherited Aplin
Gus at Auburn- inherited a whole offense along with Nick Marshall

Gus has never proven he can start or sustain a program. Period

[hehawg]

Gus at arkansas- inherited McFadden and Jones
Gus at Tulsa- inherited Senior QB David Johnson
Gus at Auburn- inherited Cam
Gus at StAte- inherited Aplin
Gus at Auburn- inherited a whole offense along with Nick Marshall

Gus has never proven he can start or sustain a program. Period

BINGO! We have a winner

+1

[urkillnmesmalls]

Gus at arkansas- inherited McFadden and Jones
Gus at Tulsa- inherited Senior QB David Johnson
Gus at Auburn- inherited Cam
Gus at StAte- inherited Aplin
Gus at Auburn- inherited a whole offense along with Nick Marshall

Gus has never proven he can start or sustain a program. Period

It doesn't matter who he inherited.  He has coached two seasons as a HC, and that's completely different than being a coordinator, and he has CERTAINLY not shown he can sustain anything...impossible with one season at one school and 10 games into the second.

But...I think it's safe to say that IF he can keep getting talent, he's going to win.  How else can you see the trend going?  You said it right there....he was successful when he had talent, and there are plenty of coaches who fail with good talent.   

[VBHOG]

Gus at arkansas- inherited McFadden and Jones
Gus at Tulsa- inherited Senior QB David Johnson
Gus at Auburn- inherited Cam
Gus at StAte- inherited Aplin
Gus at Auburn- inherited a whole offense along with Nick Marshall

Gus has never proven he can start or sustain a program. Period

Yep, Gus is the luckiest coach in the history of the world, constantly stepping in rose-scented crap.  He's done NOTHING to prove himself.

Reminds me of what Tim McCarver once said of Bob Gibson "He's the luckiest pitcher in the world.  He only pitches on days that the other team is not hitting."

[Fatty McGee]

^^^This^^^

Look how devisive the "Gus Issue" is now. I can't imagine what it would be like if he were actually coaching the Hogs.

It wouldn't be that divisive if he won.  Fans are willing to overlook ANYTHING for wins.  Moral failures, whether a coach "loves the helmet", abandoning prior teams, graduation rates, screwing players over, etc.

[Fatty McGee]

Gus at arkansas- inherited McFadden and Jones
Gus at Tulsa- inherited Senior QB David Johnson
Gus at Auburn- inherited Cam
Gus at StAte- inherited Aplin
Gus at Auburn- inherited a whole offense along with Nick Marshall

Gus has never proven he can start or sustain a program. Period

Are you trying to tell us that talented players make coaches look better?  You can't be serious.

[IBleedRazorbackRed]

Are you trying to tell us that talented players make coaches look better?  You can't be serious.

No. I'm saying experienced players make it easier to have short term success. How can Gus do when he has to build and sustain a team, will he be successful? Nobody knows. We didn't take the unnecessary risk.

[Wooderson]

Gus will do well because he jhas already shown a willingness to look past Auburns "all in " philosophy.  Would he do that at Arkansas? 

Ive always wondered if coaching a school while having emotional ties to that school is a negative?  You have to cheat to win, and if I was ua coach I'm not allowing it.

[Dumb ole famrboy]

That and Broyles thought he could push kenny around a little bit.  With JJ, that would have not been a possibility.  Huge whiff by Broyles passing on JJ.  Turned out okay for JJ as he got revenge 51-7 in LR in 1987.  He made it clear that day who the better coach was...  BBH

The point you don't consider is - Miami would have hired Hatfield, if available, instead of JJ.

[Silver Hog]

Gus at arkansas- inherited McFadden and Jones
Gus at Tulsa- inherited Senior QB David Johnson
Gus at Auburn- inherited Cam
Gus at StAte- inherited Aplin
Gus at Auburn- inherited a whole offense along with Nick

Looks to me like Gus only needs one player to win!

[HogBreath]

Yep, Gus is the luckiest coach in the history of the world, constantly stepping in rose-scented crap.  He's done NOTHING to prove himself.

Reminds me of what Tim McCarver once said of Bob Gibson "He's the luckiest pitcher in the world.  He only pitches on days that the other team is not hitting."

Lol...isn't that the truth, that Gus is sure one lucky guy.  I won't believe in his coaching until he takes a junior high team and beats the Patriots and 49ers on the same day.