With 5 sec left...

[akp4105]

gotta put the ball in Fortson's hands.. geez

[thirtythree]

Rebounding, FT's and missed layups cost us the game tonight.

[Franchise Hawgs]

agree 100%

[UltimateHog]

Rebounding, FT's and missed layups cost us the game tonight.

You mean Sanchez being so worthless down low we have to play 4 guards and give up 8 points in the final 5 minutes off of second chance put backs/tip ins?

I don't know why we didn't play Moore or Clark.

Stupid.

Sanchez is not SEC caliber, at least let someone else try.

[akp4105]

Rebounding, FT's and missed layups cost us the game tonight.

I posted before the game some keys to the game.. Rebounding and free throws were huge.. and we got beat because we missed free throws and they got second shots down the stretch..
BUT... with 5 seconds left in the game... PUT THE BALL IN FORTSON'S HANDS.

[Adam Stokes]

You mean Sanchez being so worthless down low we have to play 4 guards and give up 8 points in the final 5 minutes off of second chance put backs/tip ins?

I don't know why we didn't play Moore or Clark.

Stupid.

Sanchez is not SEC caliber, at least let someone else try.

Haha yeah like Moore or Clark? He's the best we got, beggars can't be choosers, we are begging for some decent post play with the players we've got.

[porkinsons disease]

Welsh had a nice game, but forced the issue a couple of times, imo.

[UltimateHog]

Haha yeah like Moore or Clark? He's the best we got, beggars can't be choosers, we are begging for some decent post play with the players we've got.

I like Moore right now over Sanchez and it's not even close.

Sanchez and Clark are about even.

[RZRBack_FAN]

Pel should have went to the Jucos and got somebody that could help this year even if it is just defensively instead of wasteing a scholly on Clarke or Moore!

[dougieritch]

Pel should have went to the Jucos and got somebody that could help this year even if it is just defensively instead of wasteing a scholly on Clarke or Moore!

Montrell McDonald

[Jim Harris]

Pel should have went to the Jucos and got somebody that could help this year even if it is just defensively instead of wasteing a scholly on Clarke or Moore!

extra, extra: Pel signed not one but TWO jucos who are not on the roster now. One never made it, the other was booted. The one booted was averaging 5.1 rpg. I will agree if you amend to say that Pel should have gone to the Jucos and found some better characters who could also play and help this team.

[RZRBack_FAN]

Montrell McDonald

Yeah but I was talking about an inside guy.

[thirtythree]

You mean Sanchez being so worthless down low we have to play 4 guards and give up 8 points in the final 5 minutes off of second chance put backs/tip ins?

I don't know why we didn't play Moore or Clark.

Stupid.

Sanchez is not SEC caliber, at least let someone else try.

I will agree that Sanchez has a lot of trouble playing period, but he was not the only one that got rebounded over tonight. tennessee is a big team all the way around. I knew we were going to get out rebounded tonight. I even thought we would get blown out, but the kids played very well considering the size they were up against.

[Hawgon]

Welsh had a nice game, but forced the issue a couple of times, imo.

I swear, when Welsh has a nice game, you know he is just setting it up so that he begins to play with enough confidence that he will make that crucial mistake or two that puts a dagger in your heart.

I thought for the most part tonight, he played well and walked the fine line between being aggressive and playing out of control.  Yet, he made some bad shots and back breaking turnovers down the stretch that killed us.  Welsh is the kind of player that if you had any other choice at all, you would bury on the bench.  He can make you or break you but over time, he is going to break you more than he makes you.  So, if you have a choice, you play someone else.  Sadly, we just don't have that many options.

[Hogbody]

How did welsh play bad?   He made a god decision driving to the rim and unfortunatley he just couldnt get it down and Wash couldnt follow

[Hawgon]

He was jacking up quick threes and he had a couple of turnovers that lead to points for Tennessee in the last five minutes.

That is the kind of stuff that gets you beat and a junior should not be doing.

P.S.

And for the record, I think he played a pretty good game.  But he is always prone to making a critical mistake at a crucial point in the game. 

[The_Iceman]

I like Moore right now over Sanchez and it's not even close.

Sanchez and Clark are about even.

thats absurd. Clark is probably the most SEC ready of any of them.

Clark can shoot the 3, handle the ball, jump out of the gym, can get up and down the floor, block shots, and has a good touch around the basket.

Sanchez and Moore:
shoot the 3- NO
handle the ball- NO
jump out of the gym- Moore can get up...Sanchez- NO
Get up and down the floor- see above
block shots- both way behind Clark
touch around the basket- NO

I've seen enough. Clark needs to play over Sanchez.

[Mark]

I swear, when Welsh has a nice game, you know he is just setting it up so that he begins to play with enough confidence that he will make that crucial mistake or two that puts a dagger in your heart.

I agree. When Welsh is shooting good (which he did tonight), he thinks that he has to take the game in his hands.

Sanchez had 2 points and 2 rebounds. I think that a forward should do a bit better than that.

[jkstock04]

Rebounding, FT's and missed layups cost us the game tonight.

We haven't had guys able to shoot free throws since 1994.  And ya it hurt us bad tonight...I'm remembering specifically Washington's two misses towards the end of the game.  That said....it was clear to me the ball should have been in Forson's hands when there was 5 seconds left...I'd betcha anything he would have made that shot Welch missed...he thrives on off balanced crazy out of control shots.  In that situation Fortson should have the ball every time.

[HawgAdvocate]

How did welsh play bad?   He made a god decision driving to the rim and unfortunatley he just couldnt get it down and Wash couldnt follow

Welsh carried the team on offense for most of the night. He was scoring very well in transition with ease (until the last shot) and hitting daggering treys.

Hawgon has never liked Welsh. Nothing new.

[HawgAdvocate]

thats absurd. Clark is probably the most SEC ready of any of them.

Clark can shoot the 3, handle the ball, jump out of the gym, can get up and down the floor, block shots, and has a good touch around the basket.

Sanchez and Moore:
shoot the 3- NO
handle the ball- NO
jump out of the gym- Moore can get up...Sanchez- NO
Get up and down the floor- see above
block shots- both way behind Clark
touch around the basket- NO

I've seen enough. Clark needs to play over Sanchez.

Clark makes to many mistakes in practice for Pel to trust him. He definetly has the most talent of the three, but he's normally always out of place on defense when the lights are on.

[The_Iceman]

Clark makes to many mistakes in practice for Pel to trust him. He definetly has the most talent of the three, but he's normally always out of place on defense when the lights are on.

but at least there is potential and upside with him. Moore and Sanchez don't have very high ceilings. Clark ceiling is ridiculous with all the things he can do. I'd start him and give him a chance to learn thru his mistakes, we don't have much more to lose now, but alot to gain.

Fortson
Welsh
Henry
Clark
Washington

[HawgAdvocate]

And Pel is pushing Clark in practice, no doubt. But Clark's mental mistakes, especially when they would continue to show in games, won't help him mature or grow as much as getting it down in practice first would.

You can't reward guys with PT who don't play the way the coach wants them to play. It's why we only went 7 deep tonight.

[pigzwillrise]

gotta put the ball in Fortson's hands.. geez

i wanted to see fortson with the ball on that last play too.. however welsh did put up 22 points... but fortson had made some crazy shots tonight so i wouldve went with him also... as bad as we needed that win, im not really that upset... we played a talented team to a 2 point game... without monk and moore... why didnt clarke get any minutes??

[yraciv]

You guys realize Clark play absolutely no D?  He got benched in high school for the same exact thing.  Sanchez unfortunately is the best we have.  It wasn't just him though!  Washington's D in the post was atrocious as well, and is why I don't think he is that sure fire NBA draft pick everyone else does.

[UltimateHog]

Clark makes to many mistakes in practice for Pel to trust him. He definetly has the most talent of the three, but he's normally always out of place on defense when the lights are on.

Yeah and you knows sad about that.....

He's a friggin redshirt.

He's basically a Soph.

Ridiculous.

[chiefsfan]

I dont think it has been mentioned on here, but we were out of timeouts, and Tennessee sent 2 guys to guard Fortson after the basket.   welsh was open and wouldnt have been for much longer if we had tried to wait on the off chance fortson gets free

With 5 seconds left, and no timeouts, its first person to get it to the goal wins.   Welsh got it there in 3 seconds, missed the shot.  Washington missed the tip.   It happens

Relax and look forward to next year when this team is a year older and the constant mental mistakes will be down hopefully

They are freshman, they can only go up from here

[TomasPistola]

I dont think it has been mentioned on here, but we were out of timeouts, and Tennessee sent 2 guys to guard Fortson after the basket.   welsh was open and wouldnt have been for much longer if we had tried to wait on the off chance fortson gets free

With 5 seconds left, and no timeouts, its first person to get it to the goal wins.   Welsh got it there in 3 seconds, missed the shot.  Washington missed the tip.   It happens

Relax and look forward to next year when this team is a year older and the constant mental mistakes will be down hopefully

They are freshman, they can only go up from here

You might wanna re-check that. I think we still had one.

[GO]

I dont think it has been mentioned on here, but we were out of timeouts, and Tennessee sent 2 guys to guard Fortson after the basket.   welsh was open and wouldnt have been for much longer if we had tried to wait on the off chance fortson gets free

With 5 seconds left, and no timeouts, its first person to get it to the goal wins.   Welsh got it there in 3 seconds, missed the shot.  Washington missed the tip.   It happens

Relax and look forward to next year when this team is a year older and the constant mental mistakes will be down hopefully

They are freshman, they can only go up from here

If memory serves me correct, Fortson was open on the inbound pass and actually threw up hands in disgust when he didn't get the ball on the inbound. If you are gonna drive the ball, I want it in his hands.

[jkstock04]

They are freshman, they can only go up from here

This is a cute company line excuse that a lot of people are saying.  I may buy into it if someone could tell me how that is going to solve the tremendous size disadvantage we have.  On the excuseometer, I would put the "we're young just wait til next year" at the very bottom of the list and put "we're a small team and because of it have a huge disadvantage anytime we step on the court" at the top of the list.

[WhenPigsFly]

I have been a huge Welsh critic this season, but he kept us in the game last nite.  There was nothing wrong with his last drive.  If they're weren't going to stop him, he needed to get the the hoop, where he's reasonably good at finishing.

If we make FTs, we win this one easily.

[al2305]

This is a cute company line excuse that a lot of people are saying.  I may buy into it if someone could tell me how that is going to solve the tremendous size disadvantage we have.  On the excuseometer, I would put the "we're young just wait til next year" at the very bottom of the list and put "we're a small team and because of it have a huge disadvantage anytime we step on the court" at the top of the list.

U forgot to mention this team is depleted, and yes they are freshmen which is a very good excuse for them not to do the things u have to do to win games.  Did I mention this team is completely depleted with absolutely no depth?  We played 7 players tonight, Tenn played 11 guys most of which r more experienced to say the least.  Try running urself to exhaustion and see how many free throws u can make, plus most freshmen dont make free throws anyway. Nothing like having to play spent freshmen so they can make even more stupid mistakes than normal, it's just gonna be a long year, especially if moore stays in the doghouse,  and we dont get Monk back. The fact that we have 4 or 5 less guys than we were supposed to have seems to always be forgotten.  We should be happy we played Tenn as close as we did.

[HawgAdvocate]

The biggest thing about this is that if we put the ball in Fortson's hands, they would have just fouled him before he crossed midcourt and made him make two free throws just to tie.

He's not a good FT shooter. You don't want Fortson on the line, down by two, with the game on the line.

[weresoclose]

I could go back and look on DVR, but I don't think Fortson missed a single one of his amazing layups all second half.  Tennessee couldn't touch him. The inbounder should have waited for Fortson to break and GET HIM THE BALL !!!

It hasn't been mentioned in this thread, but what kills us IMO is the absence of a jump shooter.  We have no 6'4"-6'8" guy who can stop and pop from 12 feet.  We have one effective slasher (who's also our point guard) and one effective post man.   That's our offense.  Teams get in Rotnei's face and he can't hit the broad side of a barn.  The guy just can't get open most of the time or pull the trigger quick enough. 

And we have no depth.  Our transition game is just a notch above Stan's.  So we have a half court game with 1) a Freshman slashing point guard, 2) a big man who will be double-teamed all night, and 3) a 3-point shooter who can't get open. 

[Hawgon]

Welsh carried the team on offense for most of the night. He was scoring very well in transition with ease (until the last shot) and hitting daggering treys.

Hawgon has never liked Welsh. Nothing new.

I don't like Welsh as a basketball player because he is not a smart player.  You can't count on him.  Next game he is liable to shoot the ball 27 time, have 7 points, and 9 turnovers.

He played well last night but he made a couple criticle errors down the stretch. 

[Ray Piggers]

but at least there is potential and upside with him. Moore and Sanchez don't have very high ceilings. Clark ceiling is ridiculous with all the things he can do. I'd start him and give him a chance to learn thru his mistakes, we don't have much more to lose now, but alot to gain.

Fortson
Welsh
Henry
Clark
Washington

My sentiments exactly.

That would be my starting Line-up as well.

Welsh had a good shot at the rim, and he had been making those shots all night. It just didn't go down. MikeWash had a good chance at a follow as well, it just didn't go down.

[HawgAdvocate]

I don't like Welsh as a basketball player because he is not a smart player.  You can't count on him.  Next game he is liable to shoot the ball 27 time, have 7 points, and 9 turnovers.

He played well last night but he made a couple criticle errors down the stretch. 

Who can you count on then? Who exactly in the SEC, not just on our team, meets your definition of a smart player? Based on your definition, you don't like any of our players.

Both times Welsh put up more than 20 FG attempts, we won. Texas and South Alabama. He's not shooting us out of games. The only real subpar nights he's had were against Auburn and Mississippi St. That's it.

He's only had five TOs in a game once this year. And that was last night when he shot 8-14 from the floor, and 4-8 from three. Oh yeah, he also played 38 minutes last night, more than anyone in a Hog uniform. 5 TOs in 38 minutes is understandable. A couple of those were great passes that Britt couldn't handle.

He's only had 4 TOs in a game twice this year.

You're making stuff up as you go just to support your argument that he's a dumb player.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/players/60544

[Hawgon]

Who can you count on then? Who exactly in the SEC, not just on our team, meets your definition of a smart player? Based on your definition, you don't like any of our players.

Both times Welsh put up more than 20 FG attempts, we won. Texas and South Alabama. He's not shooting us out of games. The only real subpar nights he's had were against Auburn and Mississippi St. That's it.

He's only had five TOs in a game once this year. And that was last night when he shot 8-14 from the floor, and 4-8 from three. Oh yeah, he also played 38 minutes last night, more than anyone in a Hog uniform. 5 TOs in 38 minutes is understandable. A couple of those were great passes that Britt couldn't handle.

He's only had 4 TOs in a game twice this year.

You're making stuff up as you go just to support your argument that he's a dumb player.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/players/60544
[/uote]

Welsh jacked up a couple of quick shots and had two of his turnovers in the last five minutes last night.  That is not smart ball.  At one point Brando was talking about our quick shots being evidence of our inexperience and it was Welsh, our most experienced player, who had just chunked up the unnecessary three.

You need to relax.  I said Welsh played well and I don't have problem with him taking that last shot.  It was a good shot.  But that said, he will never be a smart player or one you can rely upon.

[Oliver]

You guys realize Clark play absolutely no D?  He got benched in high school for the same exact thing.  Sanchez unfortunately is the best we have.  It wasn't just him though!  Washington's D in the post was atrocious as well, and is why I don't think he is that sure fire NBA draft pick everyone else does.

NOBODY on our team can play defense.  Nobody.  Courtney Fortson probably plays the best defense out of anyone on the court and his defense isn't very good.  Not playing somebody on this team because they are a "defensive liability" is an invalid excuse because everybody is a defensive liability.

[HawgAdvocate]

You need to relax.  I said Welsh played well and I don't have problem with him taking that last shot.  It was a good shot.  But that said, he will never be a smart player or one you can rely upon.

We've been relying on him all year. We have three guys on this team who have shown, for the majority of the season, that we can count on them to score with the ball in their hands. Three. That's it.

I don't believe Brando is the end all, be all of anything. We rarely, if ever, work the shot clock, hence most of shots are to be considered "quick shots." We're an uptempo team, that's how we play ball.

I'd still love to know how many players in the SEC, and our team in particular, meet your (and Brando's) definition of being smart players.

[Hawgon]

See our conference record as Exhibit A as an example of why relying on Welsh is not an effective strategy.

[HognotinMemphis]

My sentiments exactly.

That would be my starting Line-up as well.

Welsh had a good shot at the rim, and he had been making those shots all night. It just didn't go down. MikeWash had a good chance at a follow as well, it just didn't go down.

I nominate you to replace Pelphrey for the rest of the season as the Hogs' head coach. You are much more basketball savvy that he is. Frank it.

[HognotinMemphis]

NOBODY on our team can play defense.  Nobody.  Courtney Fortson probably plays the best defense out of anyone on the court and his defense isn't very good.  Not playing somebody on this team because they are a "defensive liability" is an invalid excuse because everybody is a defensive liability.

Do you recall my thread last week or week before about the Hogs' complete inability to defend the 3? Auburn was 7 of 8 from 3 at one point and ended up something like 11 of 23 from 3 range. This hog team is literally the worst defensive team since the days of Lanny Van Eman. It's not even basketball...they are just standing out there and hoping the other team doesn't make the layup. Frank it.

[Oliver]

Do you recall my thread last week or week before about the Hogs' complete inability to defend the 3? Auburn was 7 of 8 from 3 at one point and ended up something like 11 of 23 from 3 range. This hog team is literally the worst defensive team since the days of Lanny Van Eman. It's not even basketball...they are just standing out there and hoping the other team doesn't make the layup. Frank it.

Haven't you heard...we're "young" and "small."  We need a team of senior year Steven Hill's and we'd be the best defensive team ever.

[UltimateHog]

Who woulda thought coming into the season that we'd be this inconsistent.

Sure I thought there would be bad games, but I did not expect this from Welsh or Clarke.

I really thought Clarke was the type of shooter that would drop in 10-20 a game, with a bad game being 6-12 points and a good one being from 18-30.

I never thought he'd go scoreless, especially more than once, nor did I think Sanchez would, or Welsh.

We've just gotta get consistent scoring from other players outside of Fortson and Wash.

[yraciv]

NOBODY on our team can play defense.  Nobody.  Courtney Fortson probably plays the best defense out of anyone on the court and his defense isn't very good.  Not playing somebody on this team because they are a "defensive liability" is an invalid excuse because everybody is a defensive liability.

I remember Stefan Welsh doing a great job locking down Abrams earlier.  We don't  have many good defensive players, you're right.  That being said Sanchez is twice the defender of Clark.  I've seen those guys way too much, and Sanchez at least is intense on D, Clark is lazy.

[athunt]

Yeah and you knows sad about that.....

He's a friggin redshirt.

He's basically a Soph.


Ridiculous.

Isnt that the same thing your precious sanchez is. The difference between the two is that Clark is athletic enough to score against competition.  If Pel pulled Sanchez as fast as he does Moore or Clark Sanchez wouldnt make it to the scorers table.  Sanchez still managed to have more TO's than points while coming off the bench.  Playing Micheal Sanchez at any point in a close game is like playing George Wilson at reciever.

[HawgAdvocate]

See our conference record as Exhibit A as an example of why relying on Welsh is not an effective strategy.

So you're saying it's Welsh's fault we have one win in conference? Yeah, that makes sense. 

[chiefsfan]

In the end, whether or not we win or lose often has come down to what Rotnei Clarke's numbers are.   

The numbers dont lie.  When he its his average, we've only lost three times this year.   One was LSU, when he was shut out in the first half,  and a second was missouri state back in game number 3

Thats not saying its Clarke's fault, because everyone gets some of the fault, but the numbers coincide more with him then Welsh

[Smithian]

Agree'd cmiller. It's not like Stefan Welsh was hitting big shots and gunning with big name players like JP Prince. Had Stefan Welsh scored mre than a crappy 22 points, we'd have won.

Some of the things being said about Stefan Welsh are bull. If you dislike a player that much, then hit the road. I'd rather have Stefan Welsh than some fan who does nothing but slam these players anonymously.

If you hate Stefan Welsh that much, go tell John Pelphrey about your dislike for him, and John Pelphrey will show you where to stick your opinion.