The value of winning...or lack thereof.

[Michael D Huff AIA]

The following numbers are the best I could find as to Bret Bielema's salary since he first arrived.

2013     $2.95m
2014     $3.2m
2015     $4.0m
2016     $4.1m
2017     $4.1m

Total     $18.35m

He has coached a total of 57 games and won 27 of them.  As of this writing we are halfway through the '17 season.  He has received about $16.25 million from the school. 

This means that it has cost about $601,852 to win a game. 

If conference wins are more important to you, then it costs about $1.625m per conference win.

Alabama gave Saban an 8 year deal in 2014 worth $6.9 million per year.  In the 2014-2017 seasons, the Tide have gone 47-4 (so far), with Saban earning somewhere around $24.15m total (halfway through the '17 season).

This simple math says that Alabama has paid about $513,829 for each of their 47 wins, or $928,846 for each of the Tide's 26 conference wins in that time period.

Bama pays 31.8% more than we do for a head coach but does 17.1% better per win than we do per win, and 74.9% better per conference win.

A lot of negative press is given to how much Saban makes.  It's still a great value for them versus the one we have.

[hogsanity]

The following numbers are the best I could find as to Bret Bielema's salary since he first arrived.

2013     $2.95m
2014     $3.2m
2015     $4.0m
2016     $4.1m
2017     $4.1m

Total     $18.35m

He has coached a total of 57 games and won 27 of them.  As of this writing we are halfway through the '17 season.  He has received about $16.25 million from the school. 

This means that it has cost about $601,852 to win a game. 

If conference wins are more important to you, then it costs about $1.625m per conference win.

Alabama gave Saban an 8 year deal in 2014 worth $6.9 million per year.  In the 2014-2017 seasons, the Tide have gone 47-4 (so far), with Saban earning somewhere around $24.15m total (halfway through the '17 season).

This simple math says that Alabama has paid about $513,829 for each of their 47 wins, or $928,846 for each of the Tide's 26 conference wins in that time period.

Bama pays 31.8% more than we do for a head coach but does 17.1% better per win than we do per win, and 74.9% better per conference win.

A lot of negative press is given to how much Saban makes.  It's still a great value for them versus the one we have.

How much does Bama spend on football overall? Assistants, administrative, recruiting, special consultants?

And, just as important how much does football earn Bama and how much does it earn AR?

If you are going to do a cost/benefit analysis you have to factor all of that in.

Just a quick search showed that Bama spend almost 42mil annually on football. Even if they go 15-0 they spend 2.8mil per win ( it costs about 200k more per win for every game they lose ). IN a 13 game season the spend 3.2 mil per game.

Arkansas spends 30mil on football, in a 13 game season they spend 2.3 mil per game. Arkansas made a profit of approx 35mil on football.

So is it worth spending an extras 12 mil for Arkansas to MAYBE win a few more games?

BTW, not shocking at all to find Ar is 7th in the sec in football revenue. 

Again this was gleaned quickly from 2 articles.

[Wildhog]

How much does Bama spend on football overall? Assistants, administrative, recruiting, special consultants?

Think about this.  Bama pays their LB coach more than we pay our coordinators.

[Pigsknuckles]

Interesting. Wonder if we should adjust the cost per win numbers to take into account what we have paid OOC opponents to come here for a rent-a-win.

[jkstock04]

Think about this.  Bama pays their LB coach makes more than we pay our coordinators.

Kind of chicken first vs egg first deal...I've seen some come with the argument of paying more would equal winning more.

I would contend we could pay Kurt Anderson 5 million dollars and our offensive line would still suck.

[hogsanity]

Kind of chicken first vs egg first deal...I've seen some come with the argument of paying more would equal winning more.

I would contend we could pay Kurt Anderson 5 million dollars and our offensive line would still suck.

I am not sure paying coaches more is the answer, but what about the other things. What about spending more on recruiting? Or more for special consultants like when Bama hired Sark?

OR is spending more money going to help at all? 

[Wildhog]

I am not sure paying coaches more is the answer, but what about the other things. What about spending more on recruiting? Or more for special consultants like when Bama hired Sark?

OR is spending more money going to help at all? 

The consultants, I believe, are huge assets to a program.  Steve Loney was given a ton of credit by the staff for that 2014 defense. 

[Marshfieldhog]

CBB needs a mentor in a bad way like he had with Alvarez. CBB just looks clueless without him. I would have thought Paul Rhoads would have helped.

[hogsanity]

CBB needs a mentor in a bad way like he had with Alvarez. CBB just looks clueless without him. I would have thought Paul Rhoads would have helped.

Can we not have one thread where we stay on topic? The topic here is $ spent per win. Is there value in spending more to try to win more?

[Razor1997]

Can we not have one thread where we stay on topic? The topic here is $ spent per win. Is there value in spending more to try to win more?

As a fan, I think so.  But I don't control the purse strings.

I can say that I would spend more on a winning program.

[jkstock04]

I am not sure paying coaches more is the answer, but what about the other things. What about spending more on recruiting? Or more for special consultants like when Bama hired Sark?

OR is spending more money going to help at all? 

I'm not sure about consultants. But I do know that when I followed recruiting (so not sure if it is still this way) Tennessee had the highest recruiting budget/spending in the SEC. Coincidentally? They also had the best out of state recruiting. They were pulling the majority of the 4 and 5 star talent from out of state.

I'm not even sure what all expenses get pulled from a recruiting budget or what exactly that entails. Does that just mean the coaches get to ride in a fancier jet? But I do recall seeing that correlation and found it interesting.

[Wildhog]

I'm not sure about consultants. But I do know that when I followed recruiting (so not sure if it is still this way) Tennessee had the highest recruiting budget/spending in the SEC. Coincidentally? They also had the best out of state recruiting. They were pulling the majority of the 4 and 5 star talent from out of state.

I'm not even sure what all expenses get pulled from a recruiting budget or what exactly that entails. Does that just mean the coaches get to ride in a fancier jet? But I do recall seeing that correlation and found it interesting.

Knoxville is a bit of an anomaly.  They're surrounded by recruiting hotbeds, but not within the Tennessee borders.

[hogsanity]

As a fan, I think so.  But I don't control the purse strings.

I can say that I would spend more on a winning program.

Look at it from the other side though, would spending more result in more revenue? Would one or 2 more wins per year result in more revenue? It is hard to think so since most of the tickets are sold now. It might result in a few more donations. The check from the SEC is going to be about the same regardless. So, other than just maybe putting another couple of W's on the board, what is the motivation to spend more $?

It is like my business. I could spend more to get more clients, but I am maxed out right now. Any more clients and I'd have to hire a secretary, get a bigger office, and maybe bring in a part timer during tax season. IT would actually end up costing me $. Sure my revenue would go up, but to no benefit to me.

[hogsanity]

Unsurprisingly this thread gets little play. Not full of speculation, conjecture, wanting to fire people, etc. It is a thread with actual factual numbers that can be verified. It is the only thread on this subject, but of course we have 134 about who the next coach is going to be.

[Michael D Huff AIA]

Unsurprisingly this thread gets little play. Not full of speculation, conjecture, wanting to fire people, etc. It is a thread with actual factual numbers that can be verified. It is the only thread on this subject, but of course we have 134 about who the next coach is going to be.

Thanks.  That's sort of why I wrote it.  I'm just trying to take the feeling out of the discussion.  I tend to break things down to their basic pieces and work from there.  I limited the expenditure to the head coach only because each coach is responsible for their own staff, so the rules are different.  Also, the HC's salary is what turns heads. 

[DeltaBoy]

We Paid too much for WAY too Little Wins.

[hogsanity]

Thanks.  That's sort of why I wrote it.  I'm just trying to take the feeling out of the discussion.  I tend to break things down to their basic pieces and work from there.  I limited the expenditure to the head coach only because each coach is responsible for their own staff, so the rules are different.  Also, the HC's salary is what turns heads. 

Thats cool. I mean looking at it we could likely have gotten the same or even better results for less $ spent on the HC, but spending less likely would not have resulted in any meaningful change in the won loss total.

[Michael D Huff AIA]

I found both the coaching staff's entire salary numbers.  Let's see what it does to the spend per win.

                      ARK                         ALA
YR              HC            AC              HC             AC
13          $2.95m     $3.225m     $6.931m     $4.380m
14          $3.20m     $3.205m     $6.931m     $5.211m
15          $4.00m     $3.515m     $6.931m     $4.960m
16          $4.10m     $3.893m     $6.931m     $5.320m
17          $4.10m     $3.893m     $6.931m     $5.995m
TOT        $18.35m   $17.783m   $34.65m     $25.87m
to date   $16.30m    $15.81       $31.19m      $22.87m

Total 4.5 yr. spend                     $32.11m                          $54.06m
Wins/Games/ $$ per           27/57     $1.189m             47/51     $1.15m
Conf. wins/conf. gms/$per  10/35     $3.211m             26/36      $2.08m

Alabama outspends Arkansas on coaching by 68.35%
Alabama's coaching staff wins 48.60% more often
Alabama spends slightly less per win at $.039m or 3.2%
Alabama spends considerably less per conference win at $1.131m or 35.22%

Verdict:  While Alabama spends like crazy on coaches, they get way more bang for their coaching dollar in terms of wins than we do.

[hogsanity]

I found both the coaching staff's entire salary numbers.  Let's see what it does to the spend per win.

                      ARK                         ALA
YR              HC            AC              HC             AC
13          $2.95m     $3.225m     $6.931m     $4.380m
14          $3.20m     $3.205m     $6.931m     $5.211m
15          $4.00m     $3.515m     $6.931m     $4.960m
16          $4.10m     $3.893m     $6.931m     $5.320m
17          $4.10m     $3.893m     $6.931m     $5.995m
TOT        $18.35m   $17.783m   $34.65m     $25.87m
to date   $16.30m    $15.81       $31.19m      $22.87m

Total 4.5 yr. spend                     $32.11m                          $54.06m
Wins/Games/ $$ per           27/57     $1.189m             47/51     $1.15m
Conf. wins/conf. gms/$per  10/35     $3.211m             26/36      $2.08m

Alabama outspends Arkansas on coaching by 68.35%
Alabama's coaching staff wins 48.60% more often
Alabama spends slightly less per win at $.039m or 3.2%
Alabama spends considerably less per conference win at $1.131m or 35.22%

Verdict:  While Alabama spends like crazy on coaches, they get way more bang for their coaching dollar in terms of wins than we do.

Nice research. The question though is would the Hogs win more if they spent that much on coaches? I know that is a question that can not be answered before hand, but it is the question the people in the AD have to weigh.

[Michael D Huff AIA]

It's obvious that Saban is the best out there right now, and Bama wasn't shy about the "we will back up the Brinks truck if we have to" talk to get their guy.  They did back up that truck, they got their wins, and they continue to back up that truck because trophies equals cash.

The lesson that we could learn from this is that you can't hire who you think MIGHT work, like a virtual unknown coach from Wisconsin.  You have to pry the talent away from where they have already had success.  Bama got Saban away from NFL money.  Granted, he probably wanted more control over the players that he had, which is easier at the college level.  The Dolphins threw more money at him than LSU could, and he won a NC there.

My point is this:  Bama did what it had to do to get their guy.  They knew who they wanted and went out and got him. 

When will Arkansas do the same? 

Found this long read about how Bama got Saban.
https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/alabama-football/38-days-inside-story-of-how-alabama-hired-nick-saban/