High School Coach Charged in Player's Death

["Pickled" Pig's Pete]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090123/ap_on_re_us/player_death_charges;_ylt=AmvQjODsz4ZXi7vEGPWghmpI2ocA
It will be interesting to see how this turns out...

[demonHOG1013]

i feel sorry for that family and its a tragedy, but the heat index was only 94.  If practices have to be canceled because of that kind of temp. schools in the south wouldnt be able to start practice til mid september.

[cdhogfan]

Feel bad for the family, but I don't think the coach deserves to be prosecuted.

[LRMedHawg]

Sounds like there may be more info to come out that we don't know.  94 is not that unreasonable however the prosecutor made it sound like there was no urgency to get this kid any serious medical help, which to me is unreasonable.  When someone just collapses in a practice like that and does not immediately wake up, an ambulance should be called asap.  Who knows though that may just be big talk from the prosecutor.

[GuvHog]

Charging a coach with reckless homicide without an autopsy to determine the exact
cause of death? That's ridiculous! I can't believe there is anyway that would hold up
in court. Surely the court will order an exumation and autopsy.

[SRFL]

With no autopsy performed this case seems less iron-clad.

A guilty verdict would set a really bad precedent imo. 

[hogsanity]

The heat index is only part of it.  I know there are days I go out to mow the yard, which I do with a push mower and gas weedeater and it takes about 21/2-3hrs, and the heat index is only about 90 and I am whipped by the tme I m done, while other days, it might be 105 and I feel fine when i am done.  Depends on how much water you get, how many rest breaks, etc. 

Some coaches are still of the mind set of " run em till they puke" and those coaches, mo, are not worhty of being around kids.

[SRFL]

The heat index is only part of it.  I know there are days I go out to mow the yard, which I do with a push mower and gas weedeater and it takes about 21/2-3hrs, and the heat index is only about 90 and I am whipped by the tme I m done, while other days, it might be 105 and I feel fine when i am done.  Depends on how much water you get, how many rest breaks, etc. 

Some coaches are still of the mind set of " run em till they puke" and those coaches, mo, are not worhty of being around kids.

Is this coach in the "run em till they puke" category?

[3dawghawg]

I coached for 28 years and that was always a real concern in dealing with the heat. It was even more of a concern with younger players who really haven't pushed their bodies and have no idea about their body being tired or in serious danger. One thing I always looked for was if I saw a kid who should be sweating and they were as dry as a bone - that can be a pretty good sign that they are getting into trouble.

[DeltaBoy]

Crap happens and at 94 Degrees it is no ones fault the kid died.  With No autopsy who can say the boy didn't have a bad heart like Lynn Bias.  This Grand Jury got swayed by emotion over facts.

I feel for this coach and his family what a mess to endure.  As for the boys family shame on them for suing.

[PigPusher]

I have a high school coach that I would like to include in that lawsuit. Those two-a-days under him were brutal. No water during practice.

No setting down for a moment to rest. No standing in the shade. No taking the helmet off to cool down. Really really brutal.

[PigPusher]

Crap happens and at 94 Degrees it is no ones fault the kid died.  With No autopsy who can say the boy didn't have a bad heart like Lynn Bias.  This Grand Jury got swayed by emotion over facts.

I feel for this coach and his family what a mess to endure.  As for the boys family shame on them for suing.

Right, them trying to make a case over 94 degrees heat index is ludicrous at best.  94 heat index probably means the air temp was in the 80's. In the football world that is a cake walk.

[COCHISE]

The kid was also taking ADHD medicine which causes the body to dehydrate at a faster rate.

[H&D]

The kid was also taking ADHD medicine which causes the body to dehydrate at a faster rate.

So the parents killed him?  At least that what the defense should say.  The the parents attorney will state that the doctors killed him.  It's always the fault of someone else, right? (sarcasm)  How many other kids were on that field that day?  Did the parents do their job and make sure their child was healthy enough for football.  Soph. Lineman.  Did he do summer workouts or did the parents let him stay in the AC all summer and play XBox? 

I hauled hay, built fences and mowed lawns all summer, I never had any problems with the heat during two-a-days. 

Look I feel sorry for the family loosing a child, however if you start pointing the finger then be ready to have it pointed at you.

[GuvHog]

So the parents killed him?  At least that what the defense should say.  The the parents attorney will state that the doctors killed him.  It's always the fault of someone else, right? (sarcasm)  How many other kids were on that field that day?  Did the parents do their job and make sure their child was healthy enough for football.  Soph. Lineman.  Did he do summer workouts or did the parents let him stay in the AC all summer and play XBox? 

I hauled hay, built fences and mowed lawns all summer, I never had any problems with the heat during two-a-days. 

Look I feel sorry for the family loosing a child, however if you start pointing the finger then be ready to have it pointed at you.

That bird just won't fly. When the Pharmacist fills a prescription there's always a sticker
on the prescription or papers with it that warns of all possible side effects. This was a
tragedy that was no ones fault.

[ballhog88]

It doesn't help that kids today stay in the house all summer playing video games and never get out til football season.

[H&D]

That bird just won't fly. When the Pharmacist fills a prescription there's always a sticker
on the prescription or papers with it that warns of all possible side effects. This was a
tragedy that was no ones fault.

I can't agree more, it was no ones fault.  Especially the coach.  The parents need to give this coach and his family their life back.

[Ash]

I can see ways it could be the coach. If the kid was genuinely showing symptoms of some sort the coach should have known enough to sit him and let him rest. Unless you know the whole story there isn't much you can say except you are sad that a kid died.

[DeltaBoy]

It is a sad case all around  That Coach will never be the same.

Example We had a Superintent at my School who back in his early 30s at his 1st Supers job had the buses run in some ? able Weather a bus wrecked and a Elementary Child was killed.   After that if the Sheriff said y'all need to stay off the roads our School was out and the Buses stayed Parked.

"He told us NO school day is worth the Life of a Child! There are plenty of Days in May when the weather is fine to go to school and I will never risk another child's life just to have a day of school. "

[clifflee4mvp]

this is bs, the kid was probably overweight and his heart couldn't take it. it's not like it was 115 degrees.

[3dawghawg]

As a coach having a player die on you would be almost to much to take. Coaching would never be the same after something like that happens.

[JIMMY BOARFFETT]

The article mentioned that "the father was there".  They may have called the father after the kid collapsed, but if he was there during the whole practice, why wasn't he wise enough to step in.  If the coach should have known better, surely the father should have known too.

Also, the lack of an autopsy leaves a huge hole in this case.

[Kenny Hawgins]

It doesn't help that kids today stay in the house all summer playing video games and never get out til football season.

BINGO!!

[Hog in Tar Heel Land]

To many things don't add up in this story.  Was the father there? When did he arrive?  If the head coach is liable, why aren't the assistants?  I would be surprised if he is convicted, however, his coaching career is gone for ever.

[RZRBack_FAN]

I'm so sick of people suing everytime something happens. Sometimes death happens it's not fair and it's very sad but if your a god fearing Christian you understand that when it's your time to go it's just your time. I feel sorry for the family of the child but there is no reason they should try and ruin the life of the coach.

[010HogFan]

94???

wow. that's not even hot.

[beachhawg]

BINGO!!

Most of the times this is exactly the case.  There was also something more than likely defective (heart, brain, etc) that caused the problem.  That was not hot even for that area.  No way the coach should be blamed.  Iy is not mandatory anyway.  Don't feel good, stop, quit, etc. 

[NuttSu]

Horse crap case at best. It will never stick or at least i hope it doesnt.
  If so,i fear the direction our country is going in.
   
If anyone would be sued it should be the kids physician for giving him the "ok" to play.They do have to get physicals to play dont they? i know i did.

[Nap]

I feel bad for the family for losing their son - but with the hundreds of thousands of high school football players that go through summer training at the start of the year, there are going to be incidents like this.  I hate that we keep weakening our society by allowing reckless litigation to go through.  No way this coach is responsible, based on the fact that he did nothing that thousands of other coaches do every day in practice.

[atekido]

I wish some company would make some extra durable Camelbacks that have extra large straps and what not to fit over pads so they can sip on the water continuously.  that would reduce fatigue, keep bodies actually hydrated, and keep practices more up tempo without jeopardizing kids having heat exhaustion.

[BigoBoys]

I have a high school coach that I would like to include in that lawsuit. Those two-a-days under him were brutal. No water during practice.

No setting down for a moment to rest. No standing in the shade. No taking the helmet off to cool down. Really really brutal.

It is interesting.  I had the same kind of experience that you had.  Lot of puking in our part of the country, had a hard time getting out of bed for a few days, didn't have water bottles available to us, but never heard of anyone dying. 

[baldhog1]

Just wait the state of Arkansas is a time bomb, very few Athletic trainers in the state, and some coaches still set in their ways = bad things.

what schools have a trainer in the state?

[COCHISE]

94???

wow. that's not even hot.

And that's including the heat index, so the actual temps were probably in the low 90's, upper 80's.

[JIMMY BOARFFETT]

Sounds like he withheld water.  If so, he is entitled to a fair trial in my mind.  Gotta give 'em water.  Way back when, were always denied water until practice was over -- in 100* and up-- but our coaches didn't know better.  Any reasonable coach today knows better. 

I didn't post this earlier because I thought it wouldn't be believed.  Back in the day, you went through entire practices without water.  They would bring ice out for you during 5-10 minute breaks.  We carried plastic baggies in our helmets to melt the hand full of ice in.  I think back on that and am amazed that more people didn't stroke out.

[cdclark09]

When you had one kid collapse then 15 mins later another collapses and dies... to me, that is reckless. 

"he needed was one person to say that they quit the team and all of the suffering and running and heat would be over".... reckless

It's not the good ole days any more and these reckless behaviors shouldn't happen anymore.  There are plenty of things that were done 'back in the day' that don't happen anymore because it is dangerous. 

[RZRBack_FAN]

If you feel it's dangerous then don't play. I'm sure he could have been in the band, or he could be the waterboy if he wanted to be part of the team. Kids are lazy these days, if they would go outside more instead of soakng up the ac we wouldn't have these problems.

[DenverHogFan]

94???

wow. that's not even hot.

heat index was commonly closer to 120 in NWA for 2-a-days when I was in HS.

[wildhogman]

I didn't post this earlier because I thought it wouldn't be believed.  Back in the day, you went through entire practices without water.  They would bring ice out for you during 5-10 minute breaks.  We carried plastic baggies in our helmets to melt the hand full of ice in.  I think back on that and am amazed that more people didn't stroke out.

I think back on my youth and wonder why we never had more problems. We were always outside from sun up to way after sunset. Rarely drank any water, because a trip into the hosue was an invitation to a list of chores mom had drawn up. If we showed up for lunch it was a miracle, and usualy a quick sandwich and a glass of tea,koolaide,whatever.(never plain water). Guess we were just acclimated to it more, not having computers and video games, and not allowed to "hang out" in the mall.

[Albert Einswine]

I didn't post this earlier because I thought it wouldn't be believed.  Back in the day, you went through entire practices without water.  They would bring ice out for you during 5-10 minute breaks.  We carried plastic baggies in our helmets to melt the hand full of ice in.  I think back on that and am amazed that more people didn't stroke out.

Same for us.  Want to know the difference between then and now?  We were acclimated and a lot of kids today are not.

We got up and went to morning practice during two-a-days and then went and hauled hay until afternoon practice.

[Albert Einswine]

Rarely drank any water, because a trip into the hosue was an invitation to a list of chores mom had drawn up.

It's OK to admit that you drank from the outside faucet like the rest of us did.

[Mitch C]

I'm so sick of people suing everytime something happens. Sometimes death happens it's not fair and it's very sad but if your a god fearing Christian you understand that when it's your time to go it's just your time. I feel sorry for the family of the child but there is no reason they should try and ruin the life of the coach.

I don't know which subject you are more wrong about.  Theologically: You couldn't be more wrong about your view of "when it's your time to go it's just your time."  Even a casual reading of scripture could never lead anyone to this conclusion.

Legally: In as much as there are un-warranted suits, whenever there are damages as a result of neglegence you have a case.  In this case there is sufficient evidence to indicate that the neglegence of the coach may have led to this boys death.  These parents hardly seem like money grabbers.

I know everyones favorite case to cite is the lady who spilled the coffee in her lap and then sued McDonald's.  The reality is she won the case because she successfully contended that McDonald's coffee did not need to be served so hot that it could cause injury.  If she had spilled her coffee, and all it did was ruin a suit, then she had no case.  But the coffee was so hot it caused injury.  Coffee does not need to be served so hot that it can cause burns to the skin.  McDonald's is stupid to serve coffee that hot to motorists.

This case should go to trial to examine further whether the coach was neglegent.  Furthermore, coaches should be better trained and kid need to be exposed to training as well to learn more about danger signs of heat related complications.

[Jazorback]

here in the L'ville it is rummered the water was with held and that the student was on meds that dehydrates you quicker. No Coach expects to lose a player on the field. The responsibilities of coaching goes much deeper than playing, winning, and losing. A lot of High schools here are hiring their own Ath. Trainers in response to what happened.

[Albert Einswine]

here in the L'ville it is rummered the water was with held and that the student was on meds that dehydrates you quicker. No Coach expects to lose a player on the field. The responsibilities of coaching goes much deeper than playing, winning, and losing. A lot of High schools here are hiring their own Ath. Trainers in response to what happened.

In the early 80's in NEA water was always withheld.  August in NEA.  We got one little water break before we ran what seemed like miles of bear crawls and sprints to end practice.

It was hotter than hades but we were used to it.  We didn't lay up all summer in the AC.

[wildhogman]

In the early 80's in NEA water was always withheld.  August in NEA.  We got one little water break before we ran what seemed like miles of bear crawls and sprints to end practice.

It was hotter than hades but we were used to it.  We didn't lay up all summer in the AC.

I remember the summer of 1980. I was in Washington, near spokane, the year StHelens blew. I came home to dead trees and burnt grass as they had a record heatwave going on. I got back th first week of August, and everyday in the front yard we played sandlot football. Water from the hydrant as you said earlier, and only on occasion. Hey some people cheated, called time out for water, and while you were getting a drink, called time in and scored lol. Life was so different then. And like the movie the sandlot, the game started after lunch, a brief intermission for dinner, and then we went untill it was to dark to see.
Kids these days dont know what fun is I think.
They rather play like a football god on some video game then actually try to immulate thier hero in real.

[LRMedHawg]

Wow I can't believe how quickly this turned into "damn kids these days" thread.  All I have to say is that your parents were saying the same crap about your generation, "these little brats got it easy now days, I used to walk 10 miles to school, uphill both ways, blah blah, blah.  I know, it is the same stuff I will say about my kids generation.  I also notice all of you old timers are ignoring some of the information that the coach may have been negligent in his actions.  There are way too many lawsuits, but that doesn't mean some aren't legit.  I just find it weird that almost every decided to jump on the coach's side, without knowing most of the facts, instead of a family.

[iseeredpeople]

I don't know which subject you are more wrong about.  Theologically: You couldn't be more wrong about your view of "when it's your time to go it's just your time."  Even a casual reading of scripture could never lead anyone to this conclusion.

Legally: In as much as there are un-warranted suits, whenever there are damages as a result of neglegence you have a case.  In this case there is sufficient evidence to indicate that the neglegence of the coach may have led to this boys death.  These parents hardly seem like money grabbers.

I know everyones favorite case to cite is the lady who spilled the coffee in her lap and then sued McDonald's.  The reality is she won the case because she successfully contended that McDonald's coffee did not need to be served so hot that it could cause injury.  If she had spilled her coffee, and all it did was ruin a suit, then she had no case.  But the coffee was so hot it caused injury.  Coffee does not need to be served so hot that it can cause burns to the skin.  McDonald's is stupid to serve coffee that hot to motorists.

This case should go to trial to examine further whether the coach was neglegent.  Furthermore, coaches should be better trained and kid need to be exposed to training as well to learn more about danger signs of heat related complications.

I noticed you are a stickler for spelling. It's negligent. Not "neglegent".

[Mitch C]

I noticed you are a stickler for spelling. It's negligent. Not "neglegent".

not the way I pronounce it.

[ronmahony]

Sounds like he withheld water.  If so, he is entitled to a fair trial in my mind.  Gotta give 'em water.  Way back when, were always denied water until practice was over -- in 100* and up-- but our coaches didn't know better.  Any reasonable coach today knows better. 

Yup, I've often wondered how nobody on our team died or had a stroke, we were alowed no water or sitting or breaks at all til practice was over.  I went through Marine Boot camp and it was pretty easy after that.

[SPAL]

You think putting "med' in your name makes you an expert? What facts do you know hot shot?

Because he could be right. Its not an issue of did a kid die because of heat stroke. The question is, did we see a sign that we could have a problem and refuse to do anythign about it until it was too late. Its easy to side with the coach because we all played football or coached. But if signs presented themselves and he did nothing, the coach is liable.



Lets look at it from another example...im in the medical field as I assume is the poster you question. If we go into a patients room and we see a 300 pound 45 year old male and he states his chest feels tight and feels like an elephant is sitting on him and he is sweating buckets of sweat and his last BP reading was 220/140 and we look at him and say take a tylenol and let me know if yuo have any more pain in 30 minutes. Then lets say the patient dies because it was determined he had an MI. Should we say its the mans fault for being overweight and that he shoudl have been out exercising instead of laying up in the AC or would we be liable for that death?

Just because it happened one way 20 years ago, doesnt mean the coach isnt liable. Im not saying he is or isnt as i dont have all the facts, just what was presented in that article. I tend to side with the coach and that this was just something that happened,, but lets not act like the chance that the coach is responsible is out of the question.

[SECGUY]

We live in a very sensitive time. Somewhere around the year 2000 parents decided to intervene for their children with authority (coaches & teachers). My parents were results of the Greatest Generation celebration. I think this group of parents is a result of the 60s; thus their stupidity. I hate that a young man has died and if the coach was directly at fault then he should be punished. But when players have to be cleared by a doctor, know that they are going to be in some serious conditioning; unless this was a fluke, tragic one-time occurrance, suing this coach is wrong.