Does anyone on here officate high school basketball

[Tweeter]

I've been officiating for 2 yrs now and i would like to get some veteran officials opinion.

[draftkings33]

Please don't call a Euro a walk!  Been seeing this BS all year

[hogsanity]

I've been officiating for 2 yrs now and i would like to get some veteran officials opinion.

Well, I call HS ball, what do you want an opinion on.

[hogsanity]

Please don't call a Euro a walk!  Been seeing this BS all year

please tell the coaches to stop screaming for it to be called a walk, been listening to that bs all year.

[Kevin]

please tell the coaches to stop screaming for it to be called a walk, been listening to that bs all year.

tell the coaches to coach their teams, and lay off the ref's

[draftkings33]

please tell the coaches to stop screaming for it to be called a walk, been listening to that bs all year.

Very true.  LOTS of dumb coaches and fans out there.  And some bad refs also

[BannerMountainMan]

please tell the coaches to stop screaming for it to be called a walk, been listening to that bs all year.

so you call according to what the coaches scream? I thought you were susposed to call it as you see it?

[draftkings33]

Also please tell refs a player can dribble as high as he or she wants and it doesn't have to be a carry

[hogsanity]

so you call according to what the coaches scream? I thought you were susposed to call it as you see it?

where did I say I called it? I said tell the coaches to quit screaming for it to be called.

Also please tell refs a player can dribble as high as he or she wants and it doesn't have to be a carry

Had to remind a coach about that just a couple days ago.

[draftkings33]

where did I say I called it? I said tell the coaches to quit screaming for it to be called.

Had to remind a coach about that just a couple days ago.

You seem like my kind of ref

[Tweeter]

Well, I call HS ball, what do you want an opinion on.

Have you notice how the fans and Highschool coaches have gotten so out of control the last few years.  I mean it's getting so bad that police and state police are having to come to all games to keep order.  I mean it's getting crazy.  This is why there such a shortage of officials.

[draftkings33]

As long as the hand is in the proper position....

I can dribble the ball off the roof and its not a carry

[Tweeter]

please tell the coaches to stop screaming for it to be called a walk, been listening to that bs all year.

Man it's amazing to me how many coaches don't actually know the rules, especially the young coaches.  All the young coaches know to do is yell at the refs and scream at their kids.  It's a shame that young coaches are not being groomed very well before they get a head job..

[Dropkick]

Man it's amazing to me how many coaches don't actually know the rules, especially the young coaches.  All the young coaches know to do is yell at the refs and scream at their kids.  It's a shame that young coaches are not being groomed very well before they get a head job..

Amazing some officials don't either..............

[Tweeter]

Amazing some officials don't either..............

Lol.  You must be a coach

[Dropkick]

Lol.  You must be a coach

Nope.

[Inhogswetrust]

where did I say I called it? I said tell the coaches to quit screaming for it to be called.

Had to remind a coach about that just a couple days ago.

I do think that a lot of carries are not called. My dad was a basketball player and that was one of his pet peeves. I would like to hear an official way to tell. I see a lot of players putting a some of their palm and fingers underneath on the side of the ball smooch the could not "fall" straight off their hand, especially on a crossover dribble. If the ball has to "roll" any at all a part of the hand or fingers while falling then it should be a carry.

[hogsanity]

Have you notice how the fans and Highschool coaches have gotten so out of control the last few years.  I mean it's getting so bad that police and state police are having to come to all games to keep order.  I mean it's getting crazy.  This is why there such a shortage of officials.

Actually my partners and I were talking Tuesday about how it seems attendance and enthusiasm are down this year, but it may just be the games were are calling. I've been in some 6a gyms that were like tombs though this year.

Man it's amazing to me how many coaches don't actually know the rules, especially the young coaches.  All the young coaches know to do is yell at the refs and scream at their kids.  It's a shame that young coaches are not being groomed very well before they get a head job..

I think all coaches go to class to learn how to hold out their arms in a pleading pose, say " You've got to see that " with a dozen different inflection points, utter " that's a walk" at least 50 times a game ( even though their players are making the exact same move ), and a couple dozen other "coaching" skills.

I kid you not, we had a coach earlier this year complain because the DEFENSE was in the lane for 3 seconds,

[HogBreath]

Actually my partners and I were talking Tuesday about how it seems attendance and enthusiasm are down this year, but it may just be the games were are calling. I've been in some 6a gyms that were like tombs though this year.

I think all coaches go to class to learn how to hold out their arms in a pleading pose, say " You've got to see that " with a dozen different inflection points, utter " that's a walk" at least 50 times a game ( even though their players are making the exact same move ), and a couple dozen other "coaching" skills.

I kid you not, we had a coach earlier this year complain because the DEFENSE was in the lane for 3 seconds,

And I recall a ref at one of football games throwing his flag when our punt went out of bounds, the other refs were nice enough to explain to him that was only an infraction on kickoffs.

Sure enough, the game came down to our two point conversion, ran to his side, the back and ball were in the end zone by two feet.  He waved it off, game over, we lost by one.

We saw that team again in the playoffs, the quarterfinals, they were undefeated, we had one loss, beat 'em by thirty that nite.

[hogsanity]

And I recall a ref at one of football games throwing his flag when our punt went out of bounds, the other refs were nice enough to explain to him that was only an infraction on kickoffs.

Sure enough, the game came down to our two point conversion, ran to his side, the back and ball were in the end zone by two feet.  He waved it off, game over, we lost by one.

We saw that team again in the playoffs, the quarterfinals, they were undefeated, we had one loss, beat 'em by thirty that nite.

Oh I know it happens. With the shortage of officials it is bound to. A guy signs up, pays his registration, buys some gear, knows someone that gets him some games, and away he goes.

I can say in our football association, they hold clinics for new officials, make sure they work scrimmages with the veteran guys so they can check them out. My 1st year I went to 3 scrimmages and they worked me at every spot. They would give me notes after each one on things I need to work on. We also had pre season meetings where we watch film and go over what was called, why it , and sometimes why it should not have been.

[HawgTrough]

I did for 10+ years. Hung up the whistle.

[MountieDawg]

Actually my partners and I were talking Tuesday about how it seems attendance and enthusiasm are down this year, but it may just be the games were are calling. I've been in some 6a gyms that were like tombs though this year.

I think all coaches go to class to learn how to hold out their arms in a pleading pose, say " You've got to see that " with a dozen different inflection points, utter " that's a walk" at least 50 times a game ( even though their players are making the exact same move ), and a couple dozen other "coaching" skills.

I kid you not, we had a coach earlier this year complain because the DEFENSE was in the lane for 3 seconds,

I think cell phones have hurt attendance.... BACK 100 YEARS ago when I was in school people went to the games for the team and for the social interaction.  Now kids lay in there bed and send pics to each other with dog noses or halos on their head.... RIDICULOUS!!!!  In 50 years no one will speak English, they will speak in pics and short texts (BTW, LOL, LMAO, YOLO)

[draftkings33]

Actually my partners and I were talking Tuesday about how it seems attendance and enthusiasm are down this year, but it may just be the games were are calling. I've been in some 6a gyms that were like tombs though this year.

I think all coaches go to class to learn how to hold out their arms in a pleading pose, say " You've got to see that " with a dozen different inflection points, utter " that's a walk" at least 50 times a game ( even though their players are making the exact same move ), and a couple dozen other "coaching" skills.

I kid you not, we had a coach earlier this year complain because the DEFENSE was in the lane for 3 seconds,

LOL doesn't suprise me at all.  Coaches say some of the dumbest things.  My main pet peeve is hearing them say "Hands up on defense"  Can't play defense with both your hands up

[hogsanity]

LOL doesn't suprise me at all.  Coaches say some of the dumbest things.  My main pet peeve is hearing them say "Hands up on defense"  Can't play defense with both your hands up

My theory is that coaches have very little to do once the game starts, but they have to LOOK like they are doing something. So they say stuff like " hands up on D " or " swing the ball " etc.

I do try to give scholastic coaches as much leeway as I can, after all it is how they earn a living. Youth league in football and basketball or usssa in baseball, not so much. 

I think cell phones have hurt attendance.... BACK 100 YEARS ago when I was in school people went to the games for the team and for the social interaction.  Now kids lay in there bed and send pics to each other with dog noses or halos on their head.... RIDICULOUS!!!!  In 50 years no one will speak English, they will speak in pics and short texts (BTW, LOL, LMAO, YOLO)

Not sure about the cell phone part, but it is not the community gathering it once was. I was in a gym earlier this week, small but nice, probably would seat 600. Looked like there were maybe 150 total for a varsity night.

[draftkings33]

Yea I've noticed attendance is down this year

[farfromgroovins]

Smaller school gyms used to be packed but the last few I've been to the crowds have been down. I think interest in sports is down because of all the other __________ (insert preference here such as distractions, electronics, social media.....)


A Eurostep is now not called a walk. It sure was when I played 25 years ago.
Bob Cousy dribbled with his hand on top of the ball. Then the hand moved toward the side and all the way to the side on a crossover.
If it isn't against the rules, what changed? Those were walks and carries at some point in basketball's history. Just pointing out observations over the years.
It's cool some of you are officials. I don't envy that job knowing the scrutiny on every stinking game, possession, dribble.

[Cargill A. BullHog]

Theres one official who momma and I have seen do some of the Wonderview games who is just too out of shape to run up and down the court.  Is there some sort of fitness requirement from AAA for basketball refs?

[farfromgroovins]

Theres one official who momma and I have seen do some of the Wonderview games who is just too out of shape to run up and down the court.  Is there some sort of fitness requirement from AAA for basketball refs?

How's the crowds at Wonderview?
Used to watch them back in the late 80s/early 90s and they had some solid teams (still do from what I hear.) And they packed the house.

[Cargill A. BullHog]

How's the crowds at Wonderview?
Used to watch them back in the late 80s/early 90s and they had some solid teams (still do from what I hear.) And they packed the house.

still strong crowds for both the girls and boys.  and yes, the teams are still pretty salty.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Speed has changed the dribble, you simply can't calmly walk down the court or drive to the basketball with you hand firmly on top of the ball.  Someone will be on the other end dunking it(which used to be illegal too).

[Dropkick]

My theory is that coaches have very little to do once the game starts, but they have to LOOK like they are doing something. So they say stuff like " hands up on D " or " swing the ball " etc.

I do try to give scholastic coaches as much leeway as I can, after all it is how they earn a living. Youth league in football and basketball or usssa in baseball, not so much. 

Not sure about the cell phone part, but it is not the community gathering it once was. I was in a gym earlier this week, small but nice, probably would seat 600. Looked like there were maybe 150 total for a varsity night.

That's ridiculous. Even the girls coach at our local high school is constantly calling out which defensive set he wants them to run several times a quarter as well as offensive plays on many possessions.

[hogsanity]

  Is there some sort of fitness requirement from AAA for basketball refs?

Nope.

In all Ar sports, due to the severe lack of officials, if you pay your fee to the state association, buy some gear, and know someone that assigns games, you will get work.

In football there is a very real possibility in the next few years, some schools will have to move varsity game to either Thur or Sat because there are not enough crews to cover them all. Last year some schools in NWA and NE Ar had to bring in crews from Missouri to call games. Oklahoma has already started playing varsity games on other nights than Friday due to a shortage of crews.

[hogsanity]

That's ridiculous. Even the girls coach at our local high school is constantly calling out which defensive set he wants them to run several times a quarter as well as offensive plays on many possessions.

Ok, how long does it take to call out "21" or "zero". aybe a half second in a possession that might last 30seconds or more?

My favorite though is when the ball is opposite the bench, all the defenders have their back to the coach, and he is jumping up and down waving his arms and pointing. None of his players are looking, cause the ball is on the other side, so why is he doing that? See this on tv all the time too in college games.

[draftkings33]

Smaller school gyms used to be packed but the last few I've been to the crowds have been down. I think interest in sports is down because of all the other __________ (insert preference here such as distractions, electronics, social media.....)


A Eurostep is now not called a walk. It sure was when I played 25 years ago.
Bob Cousy dribbled with his hand on top of the ball. Then the hand moved toward the side and all the way to the side on a crossover.
If it isn't against the rules, what changed? Those were walks and carries at some point in basketball's history. Just pointing out observations over the years.
It's cool some of you are officials. I don't envy that job knowing the scrutiny on every stinking game, possession, dribble.

Nobody did Euro Steps 25 years ago

[draftkings33]

That's ridiculous. Even the girls coach at our local high school is constantly calling out which defensive set he wants them to run several times a quarter as well as offensive plays on many possessions.

See this all the time.  Coaches calling out different plays every time down the court.  It's called overcoaching and very annoying.

[Cargill A. BullHog]

Nope.

In all Ar sports, due to the severe lack of officials, if you pay your fee to the state association, buy some gear, and know someone that assigns games, you will get work.

In football there is a very real possibility in the next few years, some schools will have to move varsity game to either Thur or Sat because there are not enough crews to cover them all. Last year some schools in NWA and NE Ar had to bring in crews from Missouri to call games. Oklahoma has already started playing varsity games on other nights than Friday due to a shortage of crews.

Well, Im a bit too old to sign up, but Im sure I could move faster on the court than this poor fellow.  He never gets more than 10 feet from the halfcourt stripe. 

[farfromgroovins]

Nobody did Euro Steps 25 years ago

Because it would be called a walk.......

[draftkings33]

Because it would be called a walk.......

Why?  It's two steps

[farfromgroovins]

Why?  It's two steps

Yes, that is accepted......now. A stutter step while dribbling was often called a walk too so you didn't do that either even though there was nothing technically wrong with it.

Rules may not have changed but what is accepted and what isn't has.

[draftkings33]

Yes, that is accepted......now. A stutter step while dribbling was often called a walk too so you didn't do that either even though there was nothing technically wrong with it.

Rules may not have changed but what is accepted and what isn't has.

A Euro step is not a walk no matter what decade or century

[hogsanity]

Why?  It's two steps

"steps" have nothing to do with it, or any travel for that matter. Has to do with the pivot foot. In the case of the eurostep, which foot was the pivot foot when the dribble ended. The difficulty is in determining when the dribble ended, and which foot was on the floor when that happened.

[Tweeter]

Nope.

In all Ar sports, due to the severe lack of officials, if you pay your fee to the state association, buy some gear, and know someone that assigns games, you will get work.

In football there is a very real possibility in the next few years, some schools will have to move varsity game to either Thur or Sat because there are not enough crews to cover them all. Last year some schools in NWA and NE Ar had to bring in crews from Missouri to call games. Oklahoma has already started playing varsity games on other nights than Friday due to a shortage of crews.

The shortage of officials is a serious problem that i don't think the coaches really grasp.  We try to recruit young officals and help them work their way up but they get ran off by crazy coaches and fans acting like a fool...They just say it's not worth getting yelled and screamed at every trip down the court.

[draftkings33]

"steps" have nothing to do with it, or any travel for that matter. Has to do with the pivot foot. In the case of the eurostep, which foot was the pivot foot when the dribble ended. The difficulty is in determining when the dribble ended, and which foot was on the floor when that happened.

If you have to think that hard about it being a walk then it shouldn't be called.  Look for 3 steps and go from there, makes it a lot easier. 

[draftkings33]

Another call I see overcalled a walk is a pump fake 3 and drive by girls.  For some reason refs call this a walk a lot on girls.  Also clean blocks by girls are often called a foul

[hogsanity]

If you have to think that hard about it being a walk then it shouldn't be called.  Look for 3 steps and go from there, makes it a lot easier. 

Which is what is taught about it at many clinics.

Another call I see overcalled a walk is a pump fake 3 and drive by girls.  For some reason refs call this a walk a lot on girls.  Also clean blocks by girls are often called a foul

See this alot in both boys and girls ball and it is because they want to pick up their pivot foot and put it back down before they dribble. That's a travel. Actually, see this alot in college, they just get in a hurry and forget to put the ball on the deck.

[draftkings33]

Which is what is taught about it at many clinics.

See this alot in both boys and girls ball and it is because they want to pick up their pivot foot and put it back down before they dribble. That's a travel. Actually, see this alot in college, they just get in a hurry and forget to put the ball on the deck.

Are refs required to go to clinics?  I watch a ton of games and I see some really good refs out there and then those that really don't have a clue.  Is it annoying as a ref to hear coaches and fans gripe about one team having more fouls than the other?  This is one of the dumbest things I hear at games.

[Inhogswetrust]

Speed has changed the dribble, you simply can't calmly walk down the court or drive to the basketball with you hand firmly on top of the ball.  Someone will be on the other end dunking it(which used to be illegal too).

it was illegal, then legal, then illegal then legal again now. Dribbling is the same no matter the speed. A carry is a carry. The rule for dribbling has not changed like the dunk. beside some teams way back also played at a fast speed.

[hogsanity]

Are refs required to go to clinics?  I watch a ton of games and I see some really good refs out there and then those that really don't have a clue.  Is it annoying as a ref to hear coaches and fans gripe about one team having more fouls than the other?  This is one of the dumbest things I hear at games.

In Arkansas they have a statewide clinic that all level 3 & 2 guys are supposed to go to every year, and level 1 every other yr.  But that clinic is going over new rules or rule changes, and some general stuff, not any on court action. If you want to move up and get better games or playoffs, then you go to actual hand on clinics during the summer. Sometimes these are held in conjunction with hs bball camps, and the refs work the games at these camps.

Honestly, I do not hear a ton of things yelled, and the weird part is the bigger the crowd the less I hear ( more like just a dull murmur in those ). It does seem that fans have a collection of things they yell, and it never changes game to game or gym to gym. Sometimes, if a school has 4 or 5 games in a night or we are working a tourney, we will have 2 crews there so you get to sit and just listen sometimes. " Look at the foul count, no way that's fair " " gotta call it both ways " " 3 seconds " " get em off him/her " and my two all time favorite " OVER THE BACK !!!!!! " & " what do you expect from the home guys ".  The last one is funny because it is likely none of us are from anywhere near that town. In the last 10 days I have been in 7 different gyms and none was closer than 40 minutes to where I live. I had a game in December that I had to google because even though I have lived in Ar my whole life, I had never heard of it.

[draftkings33]

In Arkansas they have a statewide clinic that all level 3 & 2 guys are supposed to go to every year, and level 1 every other yr.  But that clinic is going over new rules or rule changes, and some general stuff, not any on court action. If you want to move up and get better games or playoffs, then you go to actual hand on clinics during the summer. Sometimes these are held in conjunction with hs bball camps, and the refs work the games at these camps.

Honestly, I do not hear a ton of things yelled, and the weird part is the bigger the crowd the less I hear ( more like just a dull murmur in those ). It does seem that fans have a collection of things they yell, and it never changes game to game or gym to gym. Sometimes, if a school has 4 or 5 games in a night or we are working a tourney, we will have 2 crews there so you get to sit and just listen sometimes. " Look at the foul count, no way that's fair " " gotta call it both ways " " 3 seconds " " get em off him/her " and my two all time favorite " OVER THE BACK !!!!!! " & " what do you expect from the home guys ".  The last one is funny because it is likely none of us are from anywhere near that town. In the last 10 days I have been in 7 different gyms and none was closer than 40 minutes to where I live. I had a game in December that I had to google because even though I have lived in Ar my whole life, I had never heard of it.

Ha over the back is a dandy.  No mom your kid just can't jump

[Jim Harris]

please tell the coaches to stop screaming for it to be called a walk, been listening to that bs all year.

please get the palming-the-basketball out of the game. If you start calling it, I'm sure it will spread.