How much has the sting worn off?

[Hawg Red]

Then your prior point about convincing Monk to come here if we don't make the tournament next year means nothing. He won't care.

Portis and Qualls already proved you can play here and go pro. Portis may prove you can be a lottery pick.

But he does care.

Playing in the NCAA tournament is undoubtedly a better stepping stone to the NBA than not playing in the NCAA tournament. Monk's made no secret that he wants to play with like-talented players. You're not going to find that at non-tournament program.

[Big Nasty 34]

Dusty second leading scorer next year? Just like when he led Texas Tech to the tourney?   

If we are relying on Dusty as the second leading scorer, it will be a long, long, long, year....

Uh, he may be number 3 behind bell and beard. We don't have many scorers... People will say Whitt will be one but until he proves he can physically play at that level we will never know.

[Nipsey Mussle]

But he does care.

Playing in the NCAA tournament is undoubtedly a better stepping stone to the NBA than not playing in the NCAA tournament. Monk's made no secret that he wants to play with like-talented players. You're not going to find that at non-tournament program.

We won't have any true like-talented players here. Could make a case for Whitt and Kapita but they're rated a decent ways below Monk.
I think we'll have a respectable team (shouldn't fall below the NIT) from here on out with MA as our HC. I guess the hope is that Monk will feel he can take a respectable team and make them a contender for a deep run in the tourney.

[Breems]

But he does care.

Playing in the NCAA tournament is undoubtedly a better stepping stone to the NBA than not playing in the NCAA tournament. Monk's made no secret that he wants to play with like-talented players. You're not going to find that at non-tournament program.

If playing with all UK-level talent is high on his priority list, then he will go to UK.

If he wants to make the NBA and go to the tournament, he can do all that here.

[Hawg Red]

Anderson's made the tournament one out of 4 seasons. 25% of his time here. Honestly, it's a bit presumptous to just tout that we could make the tournament like it's a given. Far from it.

[Danny J]

Anderson's made the tournament one out of 4 seasons. 25% of his time here. Honestly, it's a bit presumptous to just tout that we could make the tournament like it's a given. Far from it.

And the only way we are going to make the tournament and do well is to sign really good talent and develop them. We are going to take a step back next year. No doubt in my mind we will be right about where we were CMA's second year. The 2016 class is going to be very telling about the longterm future of CMA.

[Hawg Red]

I agree, Danny, we're going to be where we were pre-Portis. Aspiring for the bubble. People take for granted how much Portis and Qualls carried us. Portis is a unique talent for a program like this and Qualls developed into the player he was this past season. Whitt and Kapita are great signings but we have no idea how fast they'll be able to play up to the level we want/expect them to. Also no idea what kind of jump Kingsley and Thompson will take. Both left us as raw projects to end the season. Beard's not the kind of player that carries a team on his back. Rest of the guys are role players. So much has to go right for us to be anywhere near as good as we were this past season.

My expectations for what I think Anderson can do are starting to maybe slip due to the level of coaching hires that have been made in the SEC since he was hired and him not showing me I was wrong about the way he recruits. Lot of fans are assuming we'll be an every-year NCAA team because that's Mike's past, but we're staring down the barrel of NCAA play in 1/5 seasons. Don't think many envisioned this when MA was hired. I know I didn't.

[Breems]

I agree, Danny, we're going to be where we were pre-Portis. Aspiring for the bubble. People take for granted how much Portis and Qualls carried us. Portis is a unique talent for a program like this and Qualls developed into the player he was this past season. Whitt and Kapita are great signings but we have no idea how fast they'll be able to play up to the level we want/expect them to. Also no idea what kind of jump Kingsley and Thompson will take. Both left us as raw projects to end the season. Beard's not the kind of player that carries a team on his back. Rest of the guys are role players. So much has to go right for us to be anywhere near as good as we were this past season.

My expectations for what I think Anderson can do are starting to maybe slip due to the level of coaching hires that have been made in the SEC since he was hired and him not showing me I was wrong about the way he recruits. Lot of fans are assuming we'll be an every-year NCAA team because that's Mike's past, but we're staring down the barrel of NCAA play in 1/5 seasons. Don't think many envisioned this when MA was hired. I know I didn't.

We are on some heavy talent for 16/17. We may have an unfortunate break from NCAAT trips (keyword "may"), but all it takes are a couple of signees and the development of guys like Jimmy Whitt to ensure we are back on track for perennial trips.

And is "the way he recruits" due to the out-of-context article everyone jumped to conclusions from? Mike nabbed Portis (I know, all Hog) and Qualls in his 4 years here so far. Also 4* Kingsley, 4* Whitt, and 4* Kapita, and perhaps a bonus point for keeping the 2011 class together. There have been filler players, and we must start trimming the fat, but recruiting isn't that bad. What really matters is how he can capitalize on our success last year for the 2016+ classes.

[Hawg Red]

Breems, how confident are you that we get two of those "heavy" talents?

[Danny J]

I agree, Danny, we're going to be where we were pre-Portis. Aspiring for the bubble. People take for granted how much Portis and Qualls carried us. Portis is a unique talent for a program like this and Qualls developed into the player he was this past season. Whitt and Kapita are great signings but we have no idea how fast they'll be able to play up to the level we want/expect them to. Also no idea what kind of jump Kingsley and Thompson will take. Both left us as raw projects to end the season. Beard's not the kind of player that carries a team on his back. Rest of the guys are role players. So much has to go right for us to be anywhere near as good as we were this past season.

My expectations for what I think Anderson can do are starting to maybe slip due to the level of coaching hires that have been made in the SEC since he was hired and him not showing me I was wrong about the way he recruits. Lot of fans are assuming we'll be an every-year NCAA team because that's Mike's past, but we're staring down the barrel of NCAA play in 1/5 seasons. Don't think many envisioned this when MA was hired. I know I didn't.

I am very high on Whitt. I am expecting A LOT out of him especially after his first year. I think he will be on the SEC freshman team no doubt in my mind. I think Kapita, if he stays healthy, will need his first year to develop and get into shape not only to play at this level but to play our style at this level. So I think he plays maybe 12-15 minutes a game his freshman year if that. I am interested to see what this staff is made of down the stretch.

And I also agree that one in five seasons making the dance are not going to get things done. I hope he can put together a really good class for 2016 to give us hope.

[Hawg Red]

"The way he recruits" refers to his non-aggressive, often reactive, and somewhat behind-the-times way of recruiting. Same gripe I've had, publicly on this board, for quite some time. That doesn't mean he isn't capable of recruiting or signing good players. But your recruiting has to be better than what it typically has been here to get this thing where it needs to be. The SEC is only going to get tougher. Lot of aggressive recruiters in the SEC right now. I'm concerned because these other guys can play the game and Mike is set in his ways. When it comes from me, it's me being a hater. When it comes from RazorAg, who follows and knows about recruiting more anyone else on this forum, no one touches it. Not saying his complaints are my complaints, but he's expressed reservations as well.

[HawgAdvocate]

And I also agree that one in five seasons making the dance are not going to get things done.

How about two Dance appearances in five seasons? Plus a declined NIT invite, for good measure.


We sure had it bad back then didn't we?

[Breems]

How do you know he recruits lazily and reactively? We have virtually no insight to that beyond what the media shares. Has recruiting been bad in your eyes?

Same deal with people wanting assistant coaches fired. No one really has a clue what they do.

[Hawg Red]

No clue what the assistants do, but I know none of them move on to better things and bigger opportunities. There's no coaching tree, and that's not a good sign for recruiting. It's a sign that recruiting is stagnant.

[Nipsey Mussle]

No clue what the assistants do, but I know none of them move on to better things and bigger opportunities. There's no coaching tree, and that's not a good sign for recruiting. It's a sign that recruiting is stagnant.

They may stay because there aren't any tempting offers. Could also be loyalty and respect for Coach A. It's a matter of perspective I suppose. When Wojo and Collins stayed forever at Duke I doubt many deemed them to be poor assistants. I get the difference in situation but still guess work on our part at this point.

I have no trouble admitting that I know very little about our assistants or about MA's recruiting tactics.

[lefty08]

Ridiculous.

Your posts? I agree

[Hawg Red]

They may stay because there aren't any tempting offers. Could also be loyalty and respect for Coach A. It's a matter of perspective I suppose. When Wojo and Collins stayed forever at Duke I doubt many deemed them to be poor assistants. I get the difference in situation but still guess work on our part at this point.

I have no trouble admitting that I know very little about our assistants or about MA's recruiting tactics.

Those guys at Duke were turning down offers until they just couldn't wait on Coach K any longer. Enormous difference. Cleveland couldn't get hired at SEMO.

[Hawg Red]

Your posts? I agree

Waited 4 days for this beaut?

[lefty08]

Waited 4 days for this beaut?

Yeah, gave you the benefit of the doubt. Turns out you just got bored in the other threads and decided to make your own place to spew the filth. I tried

[lefty08]

Those guys at Duke were turning down offers until they just couldn't wait on Coach K any longer. Enormous difference. Cleveland didntcouldn't get hired at SEMO.

FIFY

[Hawg Red]

Yeah, gave you the benefit of the doubt. Turns out you just got bored in the other threads and decided to make your own place to spew the filth. I tried

Oh boy. I'm in trouble now.

[PonderinHog]

How about two Dance appearances in five seasons? Plus a declined NIT invite, for good measure.


We sure had it bad back then didn't we?

How many NCAAT games did Heath win in those five seasons?

[latrops]

No clue what the assistants do, but I know none of them move on to better things and bigger opportunities. There's no coaching tree, and that's not a good sign for recruiting. It's a sign that recruiting is stagnant.

I don't expect Watkins to move on, given his age and history.  He has been a head coach, but was pretty dismal in his run at aTm.  He has probably settled in to a comfortable, secure position with little to no desire or expectation of moving on to bigger/better things.  Zimmerman has been with CMA for 15 years with no indication that he is going anywhere.  Cleveland has been with CMA for 5 years and has been rumored at UAB and SEMO.  For whatever reason, he seems to be the coach that other programs have some interest in....but nothing has happened yet.  Maybe if Arkansas can put together a deep NCAAT run in the next couple of years, something might happen with an assistant or two.  It's actually a good thing to lose an occasional assistant....it means other programs want to emulate what you are doing and it allows you to keep things fresh with someone new.

[latrops]

"The way he recruits" refers to his non-aggressive, often reactive, and somewhat behind-the-times way of recruiting. Same gripe I've had, publicly on this board, for quite some time. That doesn't mean he isn't capable of recruiting or signing good players. But your recruiting has to be better than what it typically has been here to get this thing where it needs to be. The SEC is only going to get tougher. Lot of aggressive recruiters in the SEC right now. I'm concerned because these other guys can play the game and Mike is set in his ways. When it comes from me, it's me being a hater. When it comes from RazorAg, who follows and knows about recruiting more anyone else on this forum, no one touches it. Not saying his complaints are my complaints, but he's expressed reservations as well.

Anyone that honestly suggests that you hate CMA isn't really paying attention.  Having concerns and discussing areas where improvement is possible doesn't equate to hate.  Frankly, unless you are the defending national champion...you should be looking for ways to get better.  There is nothing wrong with having faith in CMA.  Fans can reference solid runs at UAB and Mizzou as justification for optimism.  However, fans can also look at the fact CMA has had less success in his first four years at Arkansas than he had at either UAB or Mizzou in an equal amount of time as cause for concern.

Anderson has done a solid job thus far with the Arkansas program.  He has pulled us out of what had been a ten year funk.  However, he hasn't been so successful either here or at Mizzou/UAB that he should be considered above reproach.  There are areas he likely needs to improve upon in order to get this program to the point where we are consistently in the NCAAT, with an occasional chance at an Elite 8 or better run.

[HawgAdvocate]

How many NCAAT games did Heath win in those five seasons?

Just one less than each of the two coaches who came after. Did you not know that?

[HawgAdvocate]

Zimmerman has been with CMA for 15 years with no indication that he is going anywhere.  Cleveland has been with CMA for 5 years and has been rumored at UAB and SEMO.

Both Cleveland & Zimmerman have been on Coach A's staff since Coach A and T.J. left Arkansas back in 2002 for UAB.

[Hawg Red]

Anyone that honestly suggests that you hate CMA isn't really paying attention.  Having concerns and discussing areas where improvement is possible doesn't equate to hate.  Frankly, unless you are the defending national champion...you should be looking for ways to get better.  There is nothing wrong with having faith in CMA.  Fans can reference solid runs at UAB and Mizzou as justification for optimism.  However, fans can also look at the fact CMA has had less success in his first four years at Arkansas than he had at either UAB or Mizzou in an equal amount of time as cause for concern.

Anderson has done a solid job thus far with the Arkansas program.  He has pulled us out of what had been a ten year funk.  However, he hasn't been so successful either here or at Mizzou/UAB that he should be considered above reproach.  There are areas he likely needs to improve upon in order to get this program to the point where we are consistently in the NCAAT, with an occasional chance at an Elite 8 or better run.

Absolutely agree.

He's easily the best coach we've had since Nolan, and he has turned the program around in a several areas. I'm just not sure on-court success is fully one of those areas. It's just hard to accept that thought when we finally make the NCAAs again, and then we're right back to looking like a possible NIT team. I'm sorry, but that comes from recruiting. And, sure, we could end up making the tournament. But anyone that considers that possibility "likely" isn't being realistic. They're being very optimistic. And that's fine, just so long as they're upfront that they are being driven by optimism.

Most of criticism of Mike Anderson on this forum is not saying, "I want Mike gone." It's saying, "I want Mike to do better." The tank in the SEC has been empty up to this point. It's not longer empty. It's now a shark tank. What was good enough to earn the #2 spot in the conference last season is not very likely to earn probably even the #4 or 5 spot in the coming years. As good as last season was, we have to be even better than that, and we certainly can't slip any and still be relevant. All starts with recruiting and the talent you're able to put on the court. Recruiting's been good. But not good enough, IMO.

[hogsanity]

Having concerns and discussing areas where improvement is possible doesn't equate to hate. 

It does here in the land of hogville.

[Breems]

^ Clear exception.

I bet even HawgRed would agree.

[PonderinHog]

Just one less than each of the two coaches who came after. Did you not know that?

Yes, I knew that.  Are you still butthurt over Heath's and Pelphrey's firings or has the sting worn off?

[rude1]

They may stay because there aren't any tempting offers. Could also be loyalty and respect for Coach A. It's a matter of perspective I suppose. When Wojo and Collins stayed forever at Duke I doubt many deemed them to be poor assistants. I get the difference in situation but still guess work on our part at this point.

I have no trouble admitting that I know very little about our assistants or about MA's recruiting tactics.

It's really pretty simple, programs don't look to pluck assistants from middling programs. They have only been to two major programs, both rebuilding jobs, they haven't put together high level sustained success that would make other programs interested in the assistants for head coaching positions.

If they put together high level sustained success here the assistants will get offers, it is by no means any indicator of how good or bad the assistants are, it is just an indicator that they haven't stuck at a place after turning it around to have sustained success.

[HawgAdvocate]

Yes, I knew that.  Are you still butthurt over Heath's and Pelphrey's firings or has the sting worn off?

You don't see me creating drama. Heck, I even added a smiley emoji.

You wont like reading this, but I'm perfectly content around here, which is why I have no problem taking the high road whenever I get bitter responses like yours. I dont need to resort to petty untruths. Sorry if that upsets you. Brush that dirt off your shoulder.

[PonderinHog]

You don't see me creating drama. Heck, I even added a smiley emoji.

You wont like reading this, but I'm perfectly content around here, which is why I have no problem taking the high road whenever I get bitter responses like yours. I dont need to resort to petty untruths. Sorry if that upsets you. Brush that dirt off your shoulder.

So you just omit the truth (Heath never won a NCAAT game at Arkansas.) and go on your merry way?  Hey, I cool with that, HA.   

[Breems]

HA famously said he would trade his Hogville account for a good basketball program.

Someone really should've specified the terms. Looks like it was a 1-year deal.

[Thepigdoctor]

Two of our best three, period.   Its not an indictment of our defense-- its rather a glaring lack of credit given to Madden and Portis as defenders.  Defense isn't just what you do when you are defending on the ball, with the guy looking to get a shot.  Its about moving off the ball, its about communicating, position denial, using your length to alter or disrupt passing lanes,  identifying when to help, when to sag, and playing through and over picks as well.

Qualls, by comparison was a *significantly* worse defender than either of them, because of his gambling and shot-admiring ways.

All those things you just said would be my exact argument for why Madden and Portis were below average defenders. There were countless times where the opponent pushed the ball, made two passes around the arc and bam, wide open three with Madden standing five plus feet away looking lost.

I'm willing to give Qualls and Portis a bit of a pass on defense, because of their offense and what that lead to. They both played far more minutes per game than this style's success is predicated on. When you get tired, you sag more, you're feet don't get in the right spot as quickly, but because they were invaluable on offense, you have to trade off some poor defense and hope to score more than your opponent.

Next years class with what we already have, potential for who we may bring in, reminds me of an early Nolan team. Lacks the true star power, but you'll have five guys on the court who know their roll, and once everyone embraces that, a team of average talent can go places because they are an above average team.

Love Bobby and Qualls, but that's what we were last year. We never felt like a team, just two studs with three other guys trying to stay out of their way.

Every man is going to be asked to do more next year, but I believe CMA will be successful with this team by establishing roles early on, in order to maximize what each player can do.

This is one of those teams you look at on paper, wad it up and toss it aside saying they don't have anyone. Then you watch them play and left scrambling for that wad to figure out who that guy is.

My long winded point? Next year there's going to be an emphasis on team and player roles. I'm not writing them off yet, we've still got some talent and even more coming in (Kingsley, Beard, Whitt, and Kapita - with three open spots to fill) so it's not like the cupboard is bare.

And finally, for those worried so much about offense, remember that defense that we just couldn't execute this year because of certain players? Well they are gone now and the holdovers were mostly our best defenders, especially in the full court. I predict we will make up Portis ppg loss solely with more opportunities started by the defense. Points off to's is one way I see us making up for the lost production. Don't get me wrong, I'm not predicting the NCAAT, but I also don't see a losing season. This is a Nolan/Mike style team, blue collar, wear your opponent down to the breaking point. I've got a feeling it's going to be a salty bunch next season.

[fineswine]

HA famously said he would trade his Hogville account for a good basketball program.

Someone really should've specified the terms. Looks like it was a 1-year deal.

Seems to me he fulfilled his end.  We had one good year and HA remained peaceful.  Now we are back to hoping for an NIT bid, and HA (who I missed posting here because he is objective)has returned citing concerns about long-term issues with the program.  I share those concerns.  There should not be a wild drop-off going into year five.  It's always "wait until he gets his players in here".  Well, this roster is 100% his.  It's time to show us what a year five rebuild looks like.

[lefty08]

Seems to me he fulfilled his end.  We had one good year and HA remained peaceful.  Now we are back to hoping for an NIT bid, and HA (who I missed posting here because he is objective)has returned citing concerns about long-term issues with the program.  I share those concerns.  There should not be a wild drop-off going into year five.  It's always "wait until he gets his players in here".  Well, this roster is 100% his.  It's time to show us what a year five rebuild looks like.

I think that's his point. We won't play a game for 6 months and he's already predicting hoping for an NIT bid.

[Breems]

HA (who I missed posting here because he is objective)

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh. You could've stopped there.

[hogsanity]

I think that's his point. We won't play a game for 6 months and he's already predicting hoping for an NIT bid.

And his predicting that is every bit as valid as anyone predicting a ncaat appearance, or no post season at all.  Losing the production of Portis, Qualls, madden and Harris, it is not a stretch at all to see this team in the NIT. Right now, it is a stretch to say they are a ncaat team.

[HawgAdvocate]

HA famously said he would trade his Hogville account for a good basketball program.

'Famously?' I'm not sure how 'famous' my quote could be when I myself don't even recall typing it out. I could have said something along those lines at one time perhaps.... *shrug*

Of course, I'm also quite used to people simply making up nonsense on my behalf just to keep their hate-train rolling. Case in point:

We won't play a game for 6 months and he's already predicting hoping for an NIT bid.

I don't believe I've predicted an NIT bid nor do I recall posting some hope for one. But, some of you do love living in the land of make believe, so please do keep dreaming away.

[Breems]

'Famously?' I'm not sure how 'famous' my quote could be when I myself don't even recall typing it out. I could have said something along those lines at one time perhaps.... *shrug*

Of course, I'm also quite used to people simply making up nonsense on my behalf just to keep their hate-train rolling.

I'd trade my Hogville account for a perennial winner in Razorback Basketball any day of the week.

I win.

It would also seem - in an odd correlation with the Portis/Qualls departure - that the fun has been restored in Jump Ball for you!

That being said, expect me to be scarce moving forward. Jump Ball isn't much fun anymore.

So will you decide around mid-season next year if you're staying onboard for 2015/2016? And if we see more player development and Monk commits you're definitely Houdini-ing outta here?

We need time tables here. I can only spend so much of my time per week dedicated to the exposing effort.

[HawgAdvocate]

I win.

It would also seem - in an odd correlation with the Portis/Qualls departure - that the fun has been restored in Jump Ball for you!

So will you decide around mid-season next year if you're staying onboard for 2015/2016? And if we see more player development and Monk commits you're definitely Houdini-ing outta here?

We need time tables here. I can only spend so much of my time per week dedicated to the exposing effort.

I certainly didn't remember it, so I'm still not sure how 'famous' the quote could be. But, congrats to you for whatever it is you think you've 'won.'

There's so much more to being a fan than simply posting on a board. Of course, you wouldn't admit that even if you knew it to be true. When I post matters little. Truly, you just need a reason to be angry. And that's ok with me, since words on a message board mean little. I'm still posting about the Hogs, even if you can't with your responses to my posts.

[Breems]

There's so much more to being a fan than simply posting on a board.

Indeed, which is why I don't question your fandom. I'm only pursuing the message board personality you've laid out for us.

[HawgAdvocate]

Indeed, which is why I don't question your fandom. I'm only pursuing the message board personality I want you to have.

FTFY

I've made it pretty clear I'm above the nonsense. Keep trying if you must, but you'll only be disappointed.