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Author Topic: Any backup plan for Gafford?  (Read 1702 times)

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RacinRazorback

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Any backup plan for Gafford?
« on: February 12, 2018, 12:19:55 pm »

Are we on any big men in the case that Gafford goes to the NBA? Losing him with no big man being recruited would be a killer!
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hogsanity

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2018, 01:09:26 pm »

Are we on any big men in the case that Gafford goes to the NBA? Losing him with no big man being recruited would be a killer!

Was there a backup plan for Portis, or Qualls, or anyone else leaving?
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RagingHawgOn

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2018, 01:11:09 pm »

Was there a backup plan for Portis, or Qualls, or anyone else leaving?
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HossHog

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2018, 01:11:50 pm »

Was there a backup plan for Portis, or Qualls, or anyone else leaving?
Portis... yes. Qualls, no.
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hawgfan4life

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2018, 01:15:03 pm »

Was there a backup plan for Portis, or Qualls, or anyone else leaving?

Yes!  Scramble around and not replace them...

In actuality, they were recruiting some nice replacements, but all indicators from the players were they were returning.  That occurred up until very late in the process and the players they were on were not willing to wait any longer.  MA didn't want to over-sign and have to run players off to make room which is and was the correct way to recruit players.  AR was left in a no-win situation when Portis and Qualls departed from a recruiting standpoint because they thought they were staying until it was too late to sign players that were not high risk.
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KlubhouseKonnected

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2018, 01:31:13 pm »

Qualls leaving was the big surprise. Then poor man’s Qualls aka Jackery (spelling intentional) went crazy off the floor and left a big hole in that squad.
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sadhogfan

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2018, 01:45:38 pm »

Qualls leaving was the big surprise. Then poor man’s Qualls aka Jackery (spelling intentional) went crazy off the floor and left a big hole in that squad.

And then had a shockingly good senior season at MTSU. I am still floored by that. I watched them play in the first round of the NCAAT and he was terrible…looked like our version of the guy.
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Hawg Red

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2018, 01:50:36 pm »

There does not appear to be a plan to add a real big man of any kind for the foreseeable future.
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The_Iceman

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2018, 01:51:00 pm »

No. See 2015.
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Razorod

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2018, 01:59:15 pm »

Are we on any big men in the case that Gafford goes to the NBA? Losing him with no big man being recruited would be a killer!
I would imagine CMA will look into a post-grad transfer. We need scholarships available for 2019.
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hogsanity

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2018, 02:39:34 pm »

I would imagine CMA will look into a post-grad transfer. We need scholarships available for 2019.

So his plan will be to replace a NBA draft pick, possibly 1st rnd, with a grad transfer big man who after 4 years in school is still not good enough for the NBA? Yea, that's a even trade.
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HogFaninMemphis

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2018, 02:54:13 pm »

So his plan will be to replace a NBA draft pick, possibly 1st rnd, with a grad transfer big man who after 4 years in school is still not good enough for the NBA? Yea, that's a even trade.
You're not ever going to get an even trade when making a one-year stopgap measure to replace a draft pick, but it's better than doing effectively nothing. The Portis situation was frustrating because everyone knew the day he stepped on campus that he would only be here for one or two years. Moses breaking out junior year helped, but it still was just a one-man show down low. We need two at least serviceable bigs. Almost any time we have a 4 and a 5 on the floor, one of them is outmatched.
Qualls was kind of just bad luck. Even had he been healthy and not blown out his knee, he probably shouldn't have left. I'm not faulting MA for that one.
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Razorod

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2018, 03:36:47 pm »

So his plan will be to replace a NBA draft pick, possibly 1st rnd, with a grad transfer big man who after 4 years in school is still not good enough for the NBA? Yea, that's a even trade.
Who do you suggest he goes and gets? According to this list, http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings, the only players who would be comparable coming out of hs and are not signed or committed are EJ Montgomery and Jordan Brown. Hogs haven't been mentioned with either. JUCO's not what it used to be and a regular transfer has to sit our a year.

To be honest, I doubt Anderson thought he'd lose him after one year, but now it appears that it is a real possibility. I don't know what other kind of plan Anderson could have other than getting lucky on the coaching carousel where a big gets released from a scholarship because his coach gets fired or leaves for another program--and that's not really a plan.
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NoogaHog

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2018, 03:57:45 pm »

So his plan will be to replace a NBA draft pick, possibly 1st rnd, with a grad transfer big man who after 4 years in school is still not good enough for the NBA? Yea, that's a even trade.



Whassup! How you doin'?
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hogsanity

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2018, 04:15:08 pm »

Who do you suggest he goes and gets? According to this list, http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings, the only players who would be comparable coming out of hs and are not signed or committed are EJ Montgomery and Jordan Brown. Hogs haven't been mentioned with either. JUCO's not what it used to be and a regular transfer has to sit our a year.

To be honest, I doubt Anderson thought he'd lose him after one year, but now it appears that it is a real possibility. I don't know what other kind of plan Anderson could have other than getting lucky on the coaching carousel where a big gets released from a scholarship because his coach gets fired or leaves for another program--and that's not really a plan.

To be honest I don't think he needs a real big. He'd be better with a scoring 4 that's good on defense, imo.
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Hogimus Prime

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2018, 04:25:06 pm »

It's either take a graf transfer for a year and recruit a good 4/5 star for the next year or scramble and take a chamce on a project that can't help for a couple of seasons.  It's hard to recruit a good big with a might be open scholarship offer.  Good bigs won't/can't wait
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Razorod

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2018, 04:27:35 pm »

To be honest I don't think he needs a real big. He'd be better with a scoring 4 that's good on defense, imo.
I'd agree with that.

Good chance he's filling two slots anyway with Garland's health concerns. I assume he's planning for that possibility.

With Gafford, I think the plan was for him to be on the hill for two seasons. If he leaves after this season, we'll have to get lucky to replace him with a comparable talent.

Main reason I'd suggest post-grads is that I'd like to have scholarships for the 2019 class. We already have a commitment, with no scholarships available (at least on paper).

Just not sure what realistic options are out there, to be honest.
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niels_boar

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2018, 04:49:08 pm »

So his plan will be to replace a NBA draft pick, possibly 1st rnd, with a grad transfer big man who after 4 years in school is still not good enough for the NBA? Yea, that's a even trade.

The early signing period for college basketball before the season even starts makes it almost impossible for most programs to "plan" for a case like Gafford who is better than expected. No coach at Arkansas that is paying even lip service to NCAA regulations will be able to sign an equivalent stopgap for Gafford in November unless a kid is out there that bleeds Arkansas red.  I can imagine the reception that CMA, or any other Arkansas coach, would get in, say, the living room of Moses Brown.  Forget UCLA.  You can come back up Gafford as a frosh.  We think a lot of Gafford.  He may not be here next year.  In that case you are our stopgap.  Here's a pen to sign.  Yeah, right.
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cram224

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2018, 04:58:05 pm »

Yes!  Scramble around and not replace them...

In actuality, they were recruiting some nice replacements, but all indicators from the players were they were returning.  That occurred up until very late in the process and the players they were on were not willing to wait any longer.  MA didn't want to over-sign and have to run players off to make room which is and was the correct way to recruit players.  AR was left in a no-win situation when Portis and Qualls departed from a recruiting standpoint because they thought they were staying until it was too late to sign players that were not high risk.
Just curious what players was MA recruiting to replace BP and Qualls? Just like to see how they turned out with other teams. Who in the state of Ark is the next BP or DG?
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niels_boar

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2018, 05:14:47 pm »

Just curious what players was MA recruiting to replace BP and Qualls? Just like to see how they turned out with other teams. Who in the state of Ark is the next BP or DG?

We didn't fall off at center hardly at all.  Kingsley replaced Portis so well that he was preseason SEC POY the next season.  Thompson stepped in as backup.  At guard we added Hannahs and Whitt.  Durham and Bell were ready to take on bigger roles.  The biggest problem with that team was that Williams got himself kicked out of school during the summer.  That was the position that it turned out we had no replacement at all.
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razorback1829

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2018, 05:19:19 pm »

The early signing period for college basketball before the season even starts makes it almost impossible for most programs to "plan" for a case like Gafford who is better than expected. No coach at Arkansas that is paying even lip service to NCAA regulations will be able to sign an equivalent stopgap for Gafford in November unless a kid is out there that bleeds Arkansas red.  I can imagine the reception that CMA, or any other Arkansas coach, would get in, say, the living room of Moses Brown.  Forget UCLA.  You can come back up Gafford as a frosh.  We think a lot of Gafford.  He may not be here next year.  In that case you are our stopgap.  Here's a pen to sign.  Yeah, right.

This. We have Ice on here who keeps bringing up 2015 as if it wasn't past the absolute worst case scenario, and these situations which are honestly impossible to prepare for. How do you replace a lottery type talent if your name isn't Duke, Kentucky, etc..?
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cram224

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2018, 05:42:22 pm »

Why can't we have two true guys at the 5 spot and play them both at times?
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batmanfan

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2018, 06:00:21 pm »

A plan?  Lol. If he leaves they’ll wing it.
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RacinRazorback

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2018, 08:20:33 am »

I saw last night he is projected at #17!
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razorback1829

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2018, 08:26:26 am »

You can't replace Daniel Gafford. I mean you can have another player in place and keep recruiting, but Daniel Gaffords don't grow on trees.
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PonderinHog

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2018, 08:35:34 am »

Yeah, I figure we'll back up a little.
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Hawg Red

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2018, 08:45:41 am »

You can't replace Daniel Gafford. I mean you can have another player in place and keep recruiting, but Daniel Gaffords don't grow on trees.

But you can actively recruit someone taller than 6'8 and they aren't.
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KlubhouseKonnected

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2018, 09:12:41 am »

And then had a shockingly good senior season at MTSU. I am still floored by that. I watched them play in the first round of the NCAAT and he was terrible…looked like our version of the guy.

Maybe it was always a size of the stage sort of thing.
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KlubhouseKonnected

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2018, 09:20:46 am »

We didn't fall off at center hardly at all.  Kingsley replaced Portis so well that he was preseason SEC POY the next season.  Thompson stepped in as backup.  At guard we added Hannahs and Whitt.  Durham and Bell were ready to take on bigger roles.  The biggest problem with that team was that Williams got himself kicked out of school during the summer.  That was the position that it turned out we had no replacement at all.

Williams was the backup/replacement at that position for Qualls. Qualls declaring was the real unexpexted gut punch to that roster.  Williams flaming out legally paired the gutpunch with a swift kick to the nads.

You can say Kingsley was an all SEC type that year because we had so few other options but if you could have him performing like that Dusty shooting and Qualls playing the wing I think that team is much improved.

Replace Qualls with Williams and it would have been better but maybe still not a tournament team.
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hogsanity

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2018, 09:23:53 am »

I do not think you can ever blame a HC for players leaving early. But, when you recruit a player like Gafford or Portis, you have to plan like they will only be with you for one year.
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yraciv

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2018, 09:31:25 am »

The early signing period for college basketball before the season even starts makes it almost impossible for most programs to "plan" for a case like Gafford who is better than expected. No coach at Arkansas that is paying even lip service to NCAA regulations will be able to sign an equivalent stopgap for Gafford in November unless a kid is out there that bleeds Arkansas red.  I can imagine the reception that CMA, or any other Arkansas coach, would get in, say, the living room of Moses Brown.  Forget UCLA.  You can come back up Gafford as a frosh.  We think a lot of Gafford.  He may not be here next year.  In that case you are our stopgap.  Here's a pen to sign.  Yeah, right.

Yeah you can't plan for this. There aren't many available bigs right now that could actually play quality minutes for us next years. The grad transfer route won't be as good as Gafford, but there are quality ones that transfer out every year, for numerous reasons, midmajor superstar wanting a better shot, coaching change, etc. and that would be our best option with the need for 2019 scholarships.
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lynbug

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2018, 09:33:59 am »

So his plan will be to replace a NBA draft pick, possibly 1st rnd, with a grad transfer big man who after 4 years in school is still not good enough for the NBA? Yea, that's a even trade.
We're a patchwork team and probably will be for the foreseeable future.  Sometimes patchworks look pretty good but usually they look (and in our case--perform) like patchworks.
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FineAsSwine

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2018, 10:13:17 am »

But you can actively recruit someone taller than 6'8 and they aren't.

As far as we know, they aren't. Also, we haven't heard anything about a 2018 guard/wing being recruited either so maybe that means they know Garland will be cleared for next season.
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razorback1829

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2018, 11:10:26 am »

But you can actively recruit someone taller than 6'8 and they aren't.

Even in today's digital era, there are still some things that are always held close to the vest. We simply don't know everything this staff has done. We know that they have been working their tails off as far as recruiting.
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raz1965

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2018, 12:08:43 pm »

Mike had Gaffords replacement committed, miss st stole him some kind of way.
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MB Hog

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2018, 12:35:53 pm »

Gafford will certainly have the opportunity to leave as a first-round pick.  Sometimes the players just can't help but make that jump when they see the opportunity, but if he can have the patience to wait one more year, I think it will make a world of difference in his game and his ability to make an impact in the NBA as a rookie.  He has so much athleticism and heart that can get him to the NBA today, but he's showing the potential for solid post moves and a 15-foot jumper that could make him a superstar if he spends one more year in college working on those aspects of his game.

And if he becomes a true college superstar, then he has the opportunity to make megabucks on endorsement deals that might otherwise take years to earn while he learns to play at the NBA level.  Unlike Portis after his sophomore year, Gafford has a chance to see a huge increase in his overall financial package by making himself a household name in college basketball next year.

So I'm hoping we don't need a backup plan for him next year...
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hogsanity

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2018, 12:49:16 pm »

Gafford has measurables that make him elite in terms of size, reach, timing, and speed. He has flaws that spending 8 years in college won't fix. So if he is a 1st rnd pick as a fr, there is no reason to come back and MAYBE improve your draft spot t higher in the 1st rnd.

Its like the show Deal or No Deal, when you have 300k and left on the board is 450K and then 9 spots under what you have now, you take the money.
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Hawg Red

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2018, 01:13:14 pm »

As far as we know, they aren't. Also, we haven't heard anything about a 2018 guard/wing being recruited either so maybe that means they know Garland will be cleared for next season.

They wouldn't look to use that spot in the 2018, I'd have to think. That spot would be used for Justice Hill in the 2019 class and could also allow for Justice to come in at mid term next season and redshirt. Do not look for them to sign a 7th player for the 2018 class if Garland is ruled out. That would be a gross mismanagement of scholarships, IMO. We need some space cleared out for the 2019 class with no spots available currently, Hill committed and Ramsey and Franklin high recruiting priorities (not necessarily saying kick anyone off the team to make room for Ramsey and/or Franklin). I think if Garland is ruled out and Gafford goes pro after the season, one spot will be saved for Hill and the other will be filled by a grad transfer.
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Hawg Red

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2018, 01:23:51 pm »

Also, any notion that there is some close-to-the-vest big man recruit out there as a replacement for Gafford is complete, laughable nonsense. Sounds like some "I gotta tell myself something to make me feel better about this" crap. We aren't recruiting another true big. Period. And no one come back at me with Tim Caesar, either.
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MB Hog

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2018, 01:29:07 pm »

Gafford has measurables that make him elite in terms of size, reach, timing, and speed. He has flaws that spending 8 years in college won't fix. So if he is a 1st rnd pick as a fr, there is no reason to come back and MAYBE improve your draft spot t higher in the 1st rnd.

Its like the show Deal or No Deal, when you have 300k and left on the board is 450K and then 9 spots under what you have now, you take the money.
I disagree.  The answer is not always the generic take the money... that's a very narrow-minded decision if you think one size fits all here.  He's already shown so much more to his game than anyone expected coming in.  He's a fast learner and he WOULD be able to fix a lot of flaws with an extra year.  And he can have a lot of fun as a college star while he does it... then step onto the NBA court more ready to contribute right away.  And like I said about the money, in this case it isn't just about the difference in his playing contract.  The endorsements he could gain by becoming a superstar in college make the additional one-year investment much more attractive.
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nwahogfan1

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2018, 01:30:55 pm »

I understand you can not project a Stud Center leaving after one season so maybe I give Mike a little room if Gafford goes after one year but what upsets me is why did we not recruit a Center to replace Trey.  We knew he was leaving so where is our back up center next year?  I hear we do not need Big just stick a 6'7ish 185 lber out there and they will be fine.  To battle for 30+ games in College you need some weight so a skinny freshman will get killed over a long season.   I can see a 6'8 athlete playing the 4 and the 5 position if he has some weight and is tough.

One thing that holds Mike down in recruiting is signing too many players who play very few spots.  He will sign 4 players who play the CG spot but none can play the PG spot or he will sign 4 players around 6'5 who are decent SFs but no one who can play the PF spot.

We have 13 scholarships like everyone else so Please Mike use your scholarships well to recruit all 5 positions..
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Hawg Red

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2018, 01:40:14 pm »

I disagree.  The answer is not always the generic take the money... that's a very narrow-minded decision if you think one size fits all here.  He's already shown so much more to his game than anyone expected coming in.  He's a fast learner and he WOULD be able to fix a lot of flaws with an extra year.  And he can have a lot of fun as a college star while he does it... then step onto the NBA court more ready to contribute right away.  And like I said about the money, in this case it isn't just about the difference in his playing contract.  The endorsements he could gain by becoming a superstar in college make the additional one-year investment much more attractive.

Name the last players in Gafford's current position of being projected as a mid first round pick that came back to school and either/both discernibly improved his draft stock and become a college superstar.

I'll wait....
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RaisinHog

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2018, 01:46:57 pm »

Name the last players in Gafford's current position of being projected as a mid first round pick that came back to school and either/both discernibly improved his draft stock and become a college superstar.

I'll wait....

Williams from A & M was in same position last year and will be a lottery pick ..
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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2018, 01:49:04 pm »

Williams from A & M

He has not become a college superstar and he is projected in the exact same range as he was when decided to come back (late lottery). Fact.

You just proved my point.

Next....
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Hawg Red

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2018, 01:54:45 pm »

Williams from A & M

"Superstar" Robert Williams did not make the cut for the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Award (nation's top center). But there was a center from Texas A&M that did....

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2018-02-09/college-basketball-10-candidates-2018-kareem-abdul-jabbar

Quote
Jaren Jackson, Jr.    Michigan State
Isaac Haas    Purdue
Jock Landale    Saint Mary's
Angel Delgado    Seton Hall
Vladimir Brodziansky    TCU
Mohamed Bamba    Texas
Tyler Davis    Texas A&M
Thomas Welsh    UCLA
Brandon McCoy    UNLV
Ethan Happ    Wisconsin
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RaisinHog

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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2018, 01:55:15 pm »

He was not gona be a lottery pick last year ... And gaf wouldn't be one this year
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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2018, 02:04:47 pm »

He was not gona be a lottery pick last year ... And gaf wouldn't be one this year

No one is saying Gafford will be a lottery pick. His draft projection is in the mid first round, which is high enough to make coming back to school a bad idea because he will be viewed under a different lens than players that do not have their projection by the NBA. He will likely only be picked apart rather than improve his standing with scouts. This is how it almost always works out. Robert Williams should be thankful that he basically only wasted a year by not going anywhere stock wise.
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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2018, 02:15:26 pm »

Willie Cauley Stein was projected outside the top 10 in 2014....went 6th in 2015 (personally thought he went too high).

That is the exception to the rule.
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Re: Any backup plan for Gafford?
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2018, 02:26:38 pm »

No one is saying Gafford will be a lottery pick. His draft projection is in the mid first round, which is high enough to make coming back to school a bad idea because he will be viewed under a different lens than players that do not have their projection by the NBA. He will likely only be picked apart rather than improve his standing with scouts. This is how it almost always works out. Robert Williams should be thankful that he basically only wasted a year by not going anywhere stock wise.

But there is a big difference from lottery money and being outside lottery money.. I don't care what he does ( ok I'm a hog fan of course I would love too see him back ) but the case can be made for comeing back .. although I do agree with some of your post about him being picked apart .. he would be the big dog on the team and would most likely have very good stats because of this ..
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