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Author Topic: MAs System  (Read 1785 times)

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hawgfan4life

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MAs System
« on: February 11, 2018, 08:58:08 am »

Many haters on the board are constantly questioning the coaching ability of our staff, the fundamentals of our players, the basketball I.Q. of posters, and lamenting about the critique of the moment.  Lately, it is constantly how bad our defense is and so many pen shots by our opponents.  These haters ignore his system allows this to occur, but it makes up for it in other areas over the course of a game.

Haters yearn for the traditional fundamentals.  However, I argue they are making a mistake.  Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan State, Duke, and another dozen schools are going to get elite talent for these styles and will have an edge over us trying to win this way.  Take Frank Martin for example.  He did less than MA each year, made a run last year, and is horrible this year.  Eddie Sutton was as great of a coach as any in his time, but he never won it all.

It is the same argument as B.B. trying to outdo Bama and LSU at their own style when they have far superior talent for that style.  Very unlikely to happen.

MAs system is dependent on certain skills on defense for it to work great.  Right now, our guards dont have or dont defend with length and we give up a lot of shots with us in pretty good position.  Our help rules and overplaying passing lanes also yield wide open shots more often than a typical defense.  When teams shoot well, it gets ugly fast if we arent matching on the offensive end.  However, when it is working, we create a lot of pressure on the opponent, a higher amount of turnovers, and sparks huge momentum shifts and scoring spurts for our team during games.  When a great team with great talent play against us, our ability to do these is diminished.  Such as playing North Carolina. 

Haters constantly talk about other coaches success and other programs and compare to MA overall success at AR only.  We heard how awesome Frank Martin was for two years, but that is dead silent this year because haters dont allow for any reasons for not having current and sustained high level success.  We are hearing a lot about Texas Tech this year, but does anyone think TT is going to start competing at a consistent NC level without cheating and their coach leaving for greener pastures?

The bottom line is MA needs talent for his system and recruiting has made a leap the last couple of years.  Just like occurs in single games, success of the program will occur in momentum shifts and it will be awesome while it is clicking.  NR showed us that with his two final four teams.  Fans tried running him off just before the first group took off.  Fans did run him off right when NR was poised to make another run.  No telling what we would have achieved with Igadoula. 

Fans wanting to make MA system fit their vision for basketball will never be happy.  No matter our success, they will believe a better coach would achieve better results.  If we win a NC, it will be because we were lucky somehow and overcame poor coaching.  I feel sorry for those fans.  They never truly enjoy our teams success and the good things Coach Anderson does.
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Hooter

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2018, 09:00:29 am »

Good post
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jusgtohogs

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2018, 09:11:22 am »

I've been a Razorback basketball fan since the Lanny Van Eman days and, make no mistake, I like Mike.  He's a good coach, good man and I believe his players love him.  Fundamentals are essential for consistent success.  Basketball is a game of strategy and that requires knowing what your teammates are going to do.  Without good fundamentals, you don't know.
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WBOBO

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2018, 09:11:46 am »

I agree with OP.
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jst01

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2018, 09:20:13 am »

Problem with Mike is that he tries to out-run or out-athlete other teams. Players and basketball has changed and now just about every team is full of players that can run with anyone and they are just as athletic as anyone. Most players can handle the ball well. There used to be an advantage to having a team of guys that could run non-stop for 40 minutes, but that advantage is gone for the most part.  Yet Mike still is trying to squeeze out wins with this strategy. You have to be a well rounded complete team to win and have success in tournament basketball.
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Pigsear

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2018, 09:30:29 am »

So basically what your saying is in Mike's system if we play great every night, and the other team doesn't play very well we have a chance. You say if the other team shoots well, it gets ugly fast if we don't match them on offense, and that's true. That's why he will very seldom beat the top teams in the sec, and will go one and done in the NCAA tournament, because good teams usually shoot well, and we shoot well every once in a while. And of course anyone that's not happy with that,want's more success is a hater.
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Supermark101

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2018, 09:45:24 am »

Many haters on the board are constantly questioning the coaching ability of our staff, the fundamentals of our players, the basketball I.Q. of posters, and lamenting about the critique of the moment.  Lately, it is constantly how bad our defense is and so many pen shots by our opponents.  These haters ignore his system allows this to occur, but it makes up for it in other areas over the course of a game.

Haters yearn for the traditional fundamentals.  However, I argue they are making a mistake.  Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan State, Duke, and another dozen schools are going to get elite talent for these styles and will have an edge over us trying to win this way.  Take Frank Martin for example.  He did less than MA each year, made a run last year, and is horrible this year.  Eddie Sutton was as great of a coach as any in his time, but he never won it all.

It is the same argument as B.B. trying to outdo Bama and LSU at their own style when they have far superior talent for that style.  Very unlikely to happen.

MAs system is dependent on certain skills on defense for it to work great.  Right now, our guards dont have or dont defend with length and we give up a lot of shots with us in pretty good position.  Our help rules and overplaying passing lanes also yield wide open shots more often than a typical defense.  When teams shoot well, it gets ugly fast if we arent matching on the offensive end.  However, when it is working, we create a lot of pressure on the opponent, a higher amount of turnovers, and sparks huge momentum shifts and scoring spurts for our team during games.  When a great team with great talent play against us, our ability to do these is diminished.  Such as playing North Carolina. 

Haters constantly talk about other coaches success and other programs and compare to MA overall success at AR only.  We heard how awesome Frank Martin was for two years, but that is dead silent this year because haters dont allow for any reasons for not having current and sustained high level success.  We are hearing a lot about Texas Tech this year, but does anyone think TT is going to start competing at a consistent NC level without cheating and their coach leaving for greener pastures?

The bottom line is MA needs talent for his system and recruiting has made a leap the last couple of years.  Just like occurs in single games, success of the program will occur in momentum shifts and it will be awesome while it is clicking.  NR showed us that with his two final four teams.  Fans tried running him off just before the first group took off.  Fans did run him off right when NR was poised to make another run.  No telling what we would have achieved with Igadoula. 

Fans wanting to make MA system fit their vision for basketball will never be happy.  No matter our success, they will believe a better coach would achieve better results.  If we win a NC, it will be because we were lucky somehow and overcame poor coaching.  I feel sorry for those fans.  They never truly enjoy our teams success and the good things Coach Anderson does.

Unlike in football, we have no build in disadvantages. We SHOULD be elite. Mike Anderson is not an elite coach or recruitor, yet he makes elite money. We should expect more.
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bkjbearcat

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2018, 09:55:11 am »

Unlike in football, we have no build in disadvantages. We SHOULD be elite. Mike Anderson is not an elite coach or recruitor, yet he makes elite money. We should expect more.

Facilities, recruiting base, resources, fan base and alumni who want to win. Arkansas all has these. Yet in year 6 MA STILL needs to get HIS players for HIS system.
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golfinpig

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2018, 09:58:51 am »

Anyone who calls everyone that questions MAs coaching a hater is an ignorant fool. Example: All would agree that Cook is the least talented and playing the worst of any of the forwards so naturally he starts the game. Cook rewards this great coaching move by turning the ball over the first two times he touched it.
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hobhog

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2018, 10:01:57 am »

So basically what your saying is in Mike's system if we play great every night, and the other team doesn't play very well we have a chance. You say if the other team shoots well, it gets ugly fast if we don't match them on offense, and that's true. That's why he will very seldom beat the top teams in the sec, and will go one and done in the NCAA tournament, because good teams usually shoot well, and we shoot well every once in a while. And of course anyone that's not happy with that,want's more success is a hater.

+1
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mountainhog

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2018, 10:16:28 am »

Not a frank martin fan but didnt he have quite a few seniors on his final 4 team?  I guess we will see what we do with ours this year.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2018, 10:29:48 am »

MAs system needs to be adapted. He is pretty much unwilling to do it and therefore, we wont see near the success NR has with it.

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hawgfan4life

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2018, 10:49:22 am »

Yes. Arkansas tried to outrun opponents as part of his system.

Arkansas is one of the most successful SEC programs the past few years, so I would argue we are a little better than mediocre.

Yes it doesnt work as well against the elite teams in the SEC and elsewhere.  Very few teams do and that is why they are elite.  Except last year, how has it worked for everybodys example of a great coach -Frank Martin?

I didnt say teams had to play poorly for us to succeed.  I said when they play well and we shoot poorly, it gets very ugly.  My unstated point is ugly portions of a game or an entire game doesnt prove we are a poor team or poorly coached.  It is a side egg of the system.  ALL teams and systems have poor segments of a game and occasionally poor games.  The traditional style doesnt appear as bad though and probably lets the team hang around and win a few games MAs system wont.  However, MAs system also allows it to win some games it likely wouldnt have one otherwise.  I believe it balances out

MAs system needs better tougher players more than adapting.  Funny how great of a coach NR is now and when he was coaching, he was lucky, won with athleticism despite fundamentals, couldnt develop a post player, was a horrible recruiter, etc.
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Hoggish1

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2018, 11:29:59 am »

What does your post about "haters" have to do with sloppy, inconstant careless play like what we saw last night for the better part of the first half?  Had Vandy shot half way well we would have been down by 10 at the half.  And don't come back to say Vandy was being guarded well at the 3-pt line because all their misses were pretty much open shots.

We can get maybe away with sloppy, careless play at home against the bottom dweller in the conference but it ain't gonna work against the bottom dweller at their place much less anywhere else in the conference on the road.

I love a win but last night's play would have/will get us beat in the next six games.
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Hoggish1

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2018, 11:36:44 am »

MAs system needs to be adapted. He is pretty much unwilling to do it and therefore, we wont see near the success NR has with it.



I'm afraid that Mike is trying to duplicate NR's success in a time when the rest of basketball has caught up with the athleticism we once possessed almost solely in college basketball.

On the other had, now that everyone else is as athletic, Mike plays NR's style, which is all he learned (and worshiped) without NR's bite.  Players are not responding to the occasional quip, or verbal jab of they punkin' you!
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ballinhog

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2018, 11:39:54 am »

Anyone who calls everyone that questions MAs coaching a hater is an ignorant fool. Example: All would agree that Cook is the least talented and playing the worst of any of the forwards so naturally he starts the game. Cook rewards this great coaching move by turning the ball over the first two times he touched it.


I'm not trying to pile on Cook but he's played as poor this season as any hog I can ever remember. Mike just keeps putting him out there
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1highhog

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2018, 11:43:05 am »

Facilities, recruiting base, resources, fan base and alumni who want to win. Arkansas all has these. Yet in year 6 MA STILL needs to get HIS players for HIS system.

I thought this was Mikes 7th season?
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TeufelHog

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2018, 11:43:46 am »

At this level, you still must/need to have solid fundamentals as a player to play CMAs style.  Thats the whole point.  Be the complete package, use those solid fundamentals in his system and WIN MORE GAMES. 
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bkjbearcat

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2018, 12:30:37 pm »

I thought this was Mikes 7th season?

Wow even worst. Closer to year 10 then year one. Yet...STILL NEEDS TO FIND HIS GUYS FOR HIS SYSTEM.
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FineAsSwine

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2018, 01:09:54 pm »

What does your post about "haters" have to do with sloppy, inconstant careless play like what we saw last night for the better part of the first half?  Had Vandy shot half way well we would have been down by 10 at the half.  And don't come back to say Vandy was being guarded well at the 3-pt line because all their misses were pretty much open shots.

We can get maybe away with sloppy, careless play at home against the bottom dweller in the conference but it ain't gonna work against the bottom dweller at their place much less anywhere else in the conference on the road.

I love a win but last night's play would have/will get us beat in the next six games.

What you saw was a team trying to come out and set the pace and be in attack mode but was going a little too fast on offense which made things a bit shaky for the first few possessions yet, the defense was constant in effort and execution from the start.

After the first five minutes, the offense settled down and the turnovers were much less frequent.
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hawgfan4life

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2018, 04:12:36 pm »

What does your post about "haters" have to do with sloppy, inconstant careless play like what we saw last night for the better part of the first half?  Had Vandy shot half way well we would have been down by 10 at the half.  And don't come back to say Vandy was being guarded well at the 3-pt line because all their misses were pretty much open shots.

We can get maybe away with sloppy, careless play at home against the bottom dweller in the conference but it ain't gonna work against the bottom dweller at their place much less anywhere else in the conference on the road.

I love a win but last night's play would have/will get us beat in the next six games.

Yet it proves my point.  We started very slow which is true, but we picked it up and went on a tear later.  Think of it like the stock market.  Any given day can start off weak or strong, it can last for periods of days, but over time, the stock market is a strong bet to continue growth.  MA has a system that over the course of a game or a schedule, produces winning results.  Some of you don't like the way it looks, some don't believe the results are good enough, but the results are the results and he is one of the winningest coaches in D1 basketball over his carrer as a coach having coached at a lower tier team and resurrecting two programs that were in bad shape when he arrived.
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orvillesghost

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2018, 06:40:44 pm »

remind me how many conference championships this *great* coach has won in his career...
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gogamer

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2018, 07:07:56 pm »

Many haters on the board are constantly questioning the coaching ability of our staff, the fundamentals of our players, the basketball I.Q. of posters, and lamenting about the critique of the moment.  Lately, it is constantly how bad our defense is and so many pen shots by our opponents.  These haters ignore his system allows this to occur, but it makes up for it in other areas over the course of a game.

Haters yearn for the traditional fundamentals.  However, I argue they are making a mistake.  Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan State, Duke, and another dozen schools are going to get elite talent for these styles and will have an edge over us trying to win this way.  Take Frank Martin for example.  He did less than MA each year, made a run last year, and is horrible this year.  Eddie Sutton was as great of a coach as any in his time, but he never won it all.

It is the same argument as B.B. trying to outdo Bama and LSU at their own style when they have far superior talent for that style.  Very unlikely to happen.

MAs system is dependent on certain skills on defense for it to work great.  Right now, our guards dont have or dont defend with length and we give up a lot of shots with us in pretty good position.  Our help rules and overplaying passing lanes also yield wide open shots more often than a typical defense.  When teams shoot well, it gets ugly fast if we arent matching on the offensive end.  However, when it is working, we create a lot of pressure on the opponent, a higher amount of turnovers, and sparks huge momentum shifts and scoring spurts for our team during games.  When a great team with great talent play against us, our ability to do these is diminished.  Such as playing North Carolina. 

Haters constantly talk about other coaches success and other programs and compare to MA overall success at AR only.  We heard how awesome Frank Martin was for two years, but that is dead silent this year because haters dont allow for any reasons for not having current and sustained high level success.  We are hearing a lot about Texas Tech this year, but does anyone think TT is going to start competing at a consistent NC level without cheating and their coach leaving for greener pastures?

The bottom line is MA needs talent for his system and recruiting has made a leap the last couple of years.  Just like occurs in single games, success of the program will occur in momentum shifts and it will be awesome while it is clicking.  NR showed us that with his two final four teams.  Fans tried running him off just before the first group took off.  Fans did run him off right when NR was poised to make another run.  No telling what we would have achieved with Igadoula. 

Fans wanting to make MA system fit their vision for basketball will never be happy.  No matter our success, they will believe a better coach would achieve better results.  If we win a NC, it will be because we were lucky somehow and overcame poor coaching.  I feel sorry for those fans.  They never truly enjoy our teams success and the good things Coach Anderson does.

+1
Refreshing for this sh##hole of a forum. And I LOVE (hate) the "it's been 7 years waah blah and what has MA done for me" posters. We'll I'll tell you.....he's provided us exciting engaging basketball win or lose.  He does NOT have a high IQ team right now yet we're still fully engaged for every game...even the haters.

I love the style, love the kids and am always ready for the next game. Thanks MA.
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naturalbornpigger

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2018, 08:16:45 pm »

So I guess I am a hater because I don't support MA.  Fine.  But while you are defending this great system CMA has employed, could you enlighten those of us who don't understand it?  Please define our offensive strategy and execution.  How do we attack a 2-3 versus a matchup versus a man defense?  I will hang up and listen.
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Letsroll1200

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2018, 08:34:09 pm »

So I guess I am a hater because I don't support MA.  Fine.  But while you are defending this great system CMA has employed, could you enlighten those of us who don't understand it?  Please define our offensive strategy and execution.  How do we attack a 2-3 versus a matchup versus a man defense?  I will hang up and listen.

Good enough to be second in points per game in the SEC. Fifth in assists and first in field goal percentage. Pretty good for a team that stand around and no offensive system.
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ChicoHog

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2018, 09:19:06 pm »

So basically what your saying is in Mike's system if we play great every night, and the other team doesn't play very well we have a chance. You say if the other team shoots well, it gets ugly fast if we don't match them on offense, and that's true. That's why he will very seldom beat the top teams in the sec, and will go one and done in the NCAA tournament, because good teams usually shoot well, and we shoot well every once in a while. And of course anyone that's not happy with that,want's more success is a hater.
Great post!  We are not haters.  We just don't agree with many of his decisions/style/ lack of adjustments.  I like Mike Anderson as a person.  I just don't think he is the guy to take us to the next level. 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 09:52:13 pm by ChicoHog »
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nwahogfan1

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2018, 09:30:15 pm »

I agree Mike needs long athletic guards and forwards to play his style of defense and it looks like after 6 years he is finally getting them.  Why so long??   But Mike also needs a rim defender and bigs to play inside.  Where are they?

I am not a big fan of Mikes style but it can work if he has the right players.  So why does Mike sign so many of the wrong players who do not play his style.  Kind of like Beleima signing the wrong OLM and DLM who can not play his style and so he looks like he can not coach. 

Talent wins but the talent has to fit your style.  We are hoping that Morris and Anderson can get their talent in place so we can see what they can accomplish.
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hawgfan4life

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2018, 10:18:10 pm »

Not sure why he hasnt recruited and kept the players he needs other than he missed on some that were steered to other schools. 

Sorry to refer to those who post negatively constantly as haters if their only reasons are they dislike style, coaching, etc.  Not sure what I was thinking.
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cram224

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2018, 07:51:04 am »

So I guess I am a hater because I don't support MA.  Fine.  But while you are defending this great system CMA has employed, could you enlighten those of us who don't understand it?  Please define our offensive strategy and execution.  How do we attack a 2-3 versus a matchup versus a man defense?  I will hang up and listen.
I have asked the same question, you will not get the answer. It's a shame that the few fans that support MA can't explain his system.
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mizzouman

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2018, 08:04:36 am »

Every coach has a system and they must recruit to that system.  There are two issues I have with the system and you can really poke issues into any system.

1.  MA doesn't have the guard.  Yes, Macon and Barford do well on the offensive side with scoring but they are a liability (in this system) defensively.  MA needs guards with long arms that are more like 6'4, 6'5. 
2.  Teams, today, know how to break that defensive scheme down especially teams with good guards.  Also, trying to run a team down and get them tired doesn't work anymore.  Too many time outs, stoppage of play, etc.  Also, players are in much better shape these days.

I think MA just needs some guards that can defend.
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The_Iceman

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2018, 08:26:44 am »

Every coach has a system and they must recruit to that system.  There are two issues I have with the system and you can really poke issues into any system.

1.  MA doesn't have the guard.  Yes, Macon and Barford do well on the offensive side with scoring but they are a liability (in this system) defensively.  MA needs guards with long arms that are more like 6'4, 6'5. 
2.  Teams, today, know how to break that defensive scheme down especially teams with good guards.  Also, trying to run a team down and get them tired doesn't work anymore.  Too many time outs, stoppage of play, etc.  Also, players are in much better shape these days.

I think MA just needs some guards that can defend.

Mike really hasn't got one of those smaller, lightning quick guards that can break a defense down and is a pest on the defensive end. Not sure why he hasn't targeted that.

He also has struggled recruiting the 4 position. The 4's are either too short, not athletic, or have no skills. Reggie Chaney is the first 4 he's recruited that is elite caliber. Gabe Osabuohien is more of what you'd expect from a Mike 4 in terms of size and athleticism, but his skills are developing offensively.
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mizzouman

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2018, 08:37:33 am »

Mike really hasn't got one of those smaller, lightning quick guards that can break a defense down and is a pest on the defensive end. Not sure why he hasn't targeted that.

He also has struggled recruiting the 4 position. The 4's are either too short, not athletic, or have no skills. Reggie Chaney is the first 4 he's recruited that is elite caliber. Gabe Osabuohien is more of what you'd expect from a Mike 4 in terms of size and athleticism, but his skills are developing offensively.
Agree.  He needs a Clint McDaniel type guard or a JT Tiller type bulldog he had at Mizzou.  I haven't seen those yet in Fayetteville.  Also, needs a guy that's about 6'8, athletic, that can shoot the 15 footer and finish at the rim.  But most programs do.......  :)
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Letsroll1200

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2018, 08:39:42 am »

I have asked the same question, you will not get the answer. It's a shame that the few fans that support MA can't explain his system.

You have to be able to adjust your system according to the strengths of your players. If you watch Duke this season they are more of a power inside team but most years Duke depends a lot on penetration and the 3 ball. The system for Arkansas is all about getting the game up and down. Coach A teams practice fast and he believes that since the other team are not use to playing at a fast pace that they would eventually start making mistakes.

The goal for any offensive system is to get the ball in the hands of your best player. Macon has scored 20 or more points in the last 6 games. I don't know about you but that's getting it done. Last game Macon, Barford and Gafford attempted the majority of the shots. I like a system that allows your best players to be productive on offense. Most fans complain about the offensive end of the court for the Razorbacks but that is not a issue. Arkansas is first in FG percentage in the SEC and second in scoring. Arkansas issues this season is on the defensive end of the court. We don't stop people and some guys don't play with the edge to be good on defense. I
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cram224

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2018, 09:10:28 am »

Thanks Letsroll1200. I like that Macon, Barford and Gafford attempted most of the shots. Did you think the hogs made a better effort in getting touches to Gafford in the last game?
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Re: MAs System
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2018, 09:53:46 am »

Agree.  He needs a Clint McDaniel type guard or a JT Tiller type bulldog he had at Mizzou.  I haven't seen those yet in Fayetteville.  Also, needs a guy that's about 6'8, athletic, that can shoot the 15 footer and finish at the rim.  But most programs do.......  :)

For the last 4 seasons, we have really struggled at the 4 spot. Reggie Chaney is going to be the best we've had since Coty Clarke. How much better would our team right now be if instead of Thomas and/or Cook, we had Clarke? That's all on Mike and his roster management and recruiting.
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Letsroll1200

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2018, 10:16:32 am »

Thanks Letsroll1200. I like that Macon, Barford and Gafford attempted most of the shots. Did you think the hogs made a better effort in getting touches to Gafford in the last game?

Gafford was just so much better than Vanderbilt's front line. Also Gafford had 15 points and 9 rebounds against Ole Miss on Jan. 20, 2018. That is one reason I believe the Hogs can go on the road and get a victory against Ole Miss because Ole Miss does not have the frontcourt to be able to handle Gafford.

The only way the hogs are going to finish strong this season is having big games from Barford, Macon and Gafford.
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zebradynasty

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2018, 10:28:38 am »

Mike really hasn't got one of those smaller, lightning quick guards that can break a defense down and is a pest on the defensive end. Not sure why he hasn't targeted that.

He also has struggled recruiting the 4 position. The 4's are either too short, not athletic, or have no skills. Reggie Chaney is the first 4 he's recruited that is elite caliber. Gabe Osabuohien is more of what you'd expect from a Mike 4 in terms of size and athleticism, but his skills are developing offensively.

We have struggled recruiting wise at the 4 position. Combination of misevaluation and kids not adjusting. Cook should be better than what he is. I know there is a big difference in JUCO and D1 but he was a solid scorer in JUCO! Over the last few season we just haven't landed that 6-7 to 6-10 kid that rebounds plays defense and scores.
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razorback1829

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2018, 10:44:58 am »

For the last 4 seasons, we have really struggled at the 4 spot. Reggie Chaney is going to be the best we've had since Coty Clarke. How much better would our team right now be if instead of Thomas and/or Cook, we had Clarke? That's all on Mike and his roster management and recruiting.

Agree with this. This is honestly the one position that has hurt us the most. Our 4's now make me yearn for at least Alandis Harris. Gabe will develop, but we have been devoid at the 4 position for 3 years. Chaney will help rectify some, but it's definitely something that's been holding us back. His best team featured Demarre Carroll at the 4, who is a current pro. NR best years he had Corliss at the 4. It's an intricate part that has been lacking.
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jst01

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2018, 10:47:20 am »

I would love to have a Charles Thomas on this team. Nothing remarkable but you could count on 8-12 every night out of the forward.
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The_Iceman

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2018, 10:52:46 am »

I would love to have a Charles Thomas on this team. Nothing remarkable but you could count on 8-12 every night out of the forward.

You will not find a more consistent player between his sophomore thru senior seasons. Numbers almost identical all 3 years. Always new the production you'd get from him.
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Rome26

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2018, 11:44:38 am »

Mike really hasn't got one of those smaller, lightning quick guards that can break a defense down and is a pest on the defensive end. Not sure why he hasn't targeted that.

He also has struggled recruiting the 4 position. The 4's are either too short, not athletic, or have no skills. Reggie Chaney is the first 4 he's recruited that is elite caliber. Gabe Osabuohien is more of what you'd expect from a Mike 4 in terms of size and athleticism, but his skills are developing offensively.

This team would be 5 wins better with that type of pg. PG is by far the most important position on the court and CMA has struggled to get a good one. This is one of the biggest reasons for our inconsistencies.
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razorback1829

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2018, 11:50:28 am »

This team would be 5 wins better with that type of pg. PG is by far the most important position on the court and CMA has struggled to get a good one. This is one of the biggest reasons for our inconsistencies.

I think we could use one, but Macon and Barford already dominate the ball enough, and they are great. Wish we had another guard besides Beard. Just not a great or consistent distributer. But I think the 4 is the real missing link.
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ChicoHog

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2018, 11:56:09 am »

This team would be 5 wins better with that type of pg. PG is by far the most important position on the court and CMA has struggled to get a good one. This is one of the biggest reasons for our inconsistencies.
Agreed.  Macon, Barford and Bead all shooting guards in PG's body (especially Beard).  Need a guy who can break down the defense and kick to the shooters. 
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rljjr

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2018, 12:16:02 pm »

I appreciate your passion and the time you put into your post, although I don't think it's healthy to label people as "haters" who want Arkansas basketball to get back to where it belongs. With that, I have a few critiques that I hope you take in the spirit of lively discussion, and not an anger-fueled rant.

1) Eddie Sutton coached circles around MA. Career 71% Wins. ARK Wins at 78%.
2)"MAs system needs better tougher players"  I ask why we're in Year 7 and MA still can't find those guys.
3) You suggest MA's system makes up for poor defense over the course of a game. Let's look at the numbers for SEC contests.

Scoring margin: -2.2
Free throw pct .655
Opp Free Throw pct .746
Rebounding margin -2.5
Turnover margin +0.3

We shoot better than our opponents overall and from 3 pt range. Opponents are making 37 percent to our nearly 40%, and that's good, but they shoot more 3s and make more threes, nullifying that statistical number.

I get what you're saying. Ideally yes, our frenetic defensive play SHOULD create opportunities for cheap buckets to make up for it. However, that just isn't square with the facts in conference play. In fact, I BELIEVED this to be true until I looked at the data. Looking at the data it's not any surprise we are 6-6 so far.

I want us to win every game. I would love for that to happen and for MA to be here 30 more years and collect titles and rings and pieces of nets. That would be the easiest thing for all of us. He gets a ton of credit for providing some stability to the program and as a graduate and lifelong fan I say thank you.

He's a career 66% guy and 63% (so far) at Arkansas. I don't think it makes me a hater to wonder out loud on a message board if he's going to be more than he has proven over the course of his head coaching career.

I say this without passion or animus toward Mike. He seems like a great guy and every year I have renewed hope.
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WoodyHog

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2018, 01:18:14 pm »

I'm not going to talk about Mike's "system" -- there are lots of systems in basketball.  Lots of ways to play.  Lots of ways to win.

What I will comment on is the fan "fatigue" that I see.  Patience is hard to for fans.  Much better to have something new and shiny.  Something that provides immediate (even if unwarranted) hope.  This is true across pretty much all sports and for all coaches.

That isn't to say that I'm not all for replacing a guy isn't cutting the mustard or who was a program headed in the wrong direction -- but, is that Mike?  On the recruiting front, we have multiple deep classes for 2017 and 2018.  Not to mention the ability to get Macon and Barford.  On results, we'll see how this season plays out, but we may be looking at the NCAA tourney in 3 of 4 years.  Last years tourney performance was very strong, and we showed that we could compete with any team in the country.  Why, at this point, would you look to get rid of Mike?  Who would you bring in that realistically would advance the program while at the same time reflecting positively on the University?

Winning in college basketball is tough.  You hope to make it to the tourney consistently (which Mike has started to do) and make a deep run occasionally (which Mike it looks like is assembling the players to hopefully do).  Replacing him would be a mistake in my opinion, and mostly just the result of fans preferring unbridled "hope" over patience.
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Rome26

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2018, 01:27:12 pm »

I appreciate your passion and the time you put into your post, although I don't think it's healthy to label people as "haters" who want Arkansas basketball to get back to where it belongs. With that, I have a few critiques that I hope you take in the spirit of lively discussion, and not an anger-fueled rant.

1) Eddie Sutton coached circles around MA. Career 71% Wins. ARK Wins at 78%.
2)"MAs system needs better tougher players"  I ask why we're in Year 7 and MA still can't find those guys.
3) You suggest MA's system makes up for poor defense over the course of a game. Let's look at the numbers for SEC contests.

Scoring margin: -2.2
Free throw pct .655
Opp Free Throw pct .746
Rebounding margin -2.5
Turnover margin +0.3

We shoot better than our opponents overall and from 3 pt range. Opponents are making 37 percent to our nearly 40%, and that's good, but they shoot more 3s and make more threes, nullifying that statistical number.

I get what you're saying. Ideally yes, our frenetic defensive play SHOULD create opportunities for cheap buckets to make up for it. However, that just isn't square with the facts in conference play. In fact, I BELIEVED this to be true until I looked at the data. Looking at the data it's not any surprise we are 6-6 so far.

I want us to win every game. I would love for that to happen and for MA to be here 30 more years and collect titles and rings and pieces of nets. That would be the easiest thing for all of us. He gets a ton of credit for providing some stability to the program and as a graduate and lifelong fan I say thank you.

He's a career 66% guy and 63% (so far) at Arkansas. I don't think it makes me a hater to wonder out loud on a message board if he's going to be more than he has proven over the course of his head coaching career.

I say this without passion or animus toward Mike. He seems like a great guy and every year I have renewed hope.

I hate these type of comparisons. Sutton coached in an era where good players stayed in school all four years and players hardly ever transferred. That's not the case anymore. Unless you are a blueblood and reload every year, it's much harder to be consistent every year.
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tconey1

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2018, 01:42:45 pm »

Anyone who calls everyone that questions MAs coaching a hater is an ignorant fool. Example: All would agree that Cook is the least talented and playing the worst of any of the forwards so naturally he starts the game. Cook rewards this great coaching move by turning the ball over the first two times he touched it.

Ive been waiting to see this since the game ended!  I didnt want to complain right after the win.. I dont know what great coach would start #5 at any time.  Thats the worst move CMA has made in a few years. 
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naturalbornpigger

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2018, 01:52:00 pm »

Good enough to be second in points per game in the SEC. Fifth in assists and first in field goal percentage. Pretty good for a team that stand around and no offensive system.
A contributing factor to that is that we are 13th in scoring defense - we give up too many easy shots, therefore we get the ball back quickly.  Which is why we are #2 in possessions per game as well.  But again, no description of our offensive scheme.
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naturalbornpigger

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2018, 02:00:01 pm »

You have to be able to adjust your system according to the strengths of your players. If you watch Duke this season they are more of a power inside team but most years Duke depends a lot on penetration and the 3 ball. The system for Arkansas is all about getting the game up and down. Coach A teams practice fast and he believes that since the other team are not use to playing at a fast pace that they would eventually start making mistakes.

The goal for any offensive system is to get the ball in the hands of your best player. Macon has scored 20 or more points in the last 6 games. I don't know about you but that's getting it done. Last game Macon, Barford and Gafford attempted the majority of the shots. I like a system that allows your best players to be productive on offense. Most fans complain about the offensive end of the court for the Razorbacks but that is not a issue. Arkansas is first in FG percentage in the SEC and second in scoring. Arkansas issues this season is on the defensive end of the court. We don't stop people and some guys don't play with the edge to be good on defense. I
I think the reality is that Macon and Barford are getting themselves most of the shots - it's not the scheme.  They are gifted scorers, but they are forced to make difficult shots out of one-on-one play too often.  It would be nice to see a scheme that produces better looks for them - like the looks that we are giving up on the other end.
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WoodyHog

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Re: MAs System
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2018, 02:40:40 pm »

A contributing factor to that is that we are 13th in scoring defense - we give up too many easy shots, therefore we get the ball back quickly.  Which is why we are #2 in possessions per game as well.  But again, no description of our offensive scheme.

http://www.coachesclipboard.net/MotionOffense.html

We run a motion offense.  You are right that there are not a lot of "plays" -- instead there are principles and understandings.  I don't know if you are expecting players to look to the sideline for a play every time down, or hold up a finger with some play, but basketball doesn't really work like that beyond the high school level.  Understanding things like spacing, matchups, screens, etc. is more important and rigid "plays".
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