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We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys

Started by twistitup, February 09, 2018, 08:47:19 am

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twistitup

Quote from: Pig in the Pokey on February 10, 2018, 10:47:01 pm
Good work, Factchecker.

So, out of 89 scholly players, a total of six are two stars. EXACTLY my point, thanks.

Also, a WHOLE bunch of those supposed "3*s" on the list are actually 4*s. Like Billy Ferrell, Dorian Gerald, and Miles Mason just in the new class. Dalton Hyatt was a ESPN Top150 guy and he is "just a 3*" on that list. We have over 30 player who are a 4* on at least one of the three major sites. Team is far from "mostly 2 and 3 stars".

Also, nobody counts walk-ons in any way as they are irrelevant, and EVRY teams walkons are just a batch of 2 and 3 star guys. There arent 5* walkons.

The team has 105 players on the roster - walkons are NOT irrelevant...some are preferred or like I said earlier are good players coming off injuries, behavior issues, etc. Burlsworth was a walk-on - to say they are irrelevant shows a lot about you.

Roster - 105 players

How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

Jonbo

Quote from: twistitup on February 11, 2018, 05:43:27 am
The team has 105 players on the roster - walkons are NOT irrelevant...some are preferred or like I said earlier are good players coming off injuries, behavior issues, etc. Burlsworth was a walk-on - to say they are irrelevant shows a lot about you.

Roster - 105 players
Burlsworth was such an outlier they made a movie about his story. I don't think he means to say the walk-ons are irrelevant as people, but to the purpose of this discussion of "stars".

 

twistitup

February 11, 2018, 07:12:27 am #102 Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 07:37:15 am by twistitup
Quote from: Jonbo on February 11, 2018, 06:34:38 am
Burlsworth was such an outlier they made a movie about his story. I don't think he means to say the walk-ons are irrelevant as people, but to the purpose of this discussion of "stars".

This is a discussion of the 'roster' - as the thread title implies - it was also a discussion of how 2&3 star guys make All SEC and go to the NFL at a higher clip than any other star ranking....

Btw - most walkons have a 'story' - not just scrub guys from Alpena...these are football players that got thrown off track for one reason or another. Not just a kid from Clifty that decides he wants to practice w the Razorbacks.

Get real.

How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

wildhogman

Quote from: twistitup on February 11, 2018, 07:12:27 am
This is a discussion of the 'roster' - as the thread title implies - it was also a discussion of how 2&3 star guys make All SEC and go to the NFL at a higher clip than any other star ranking....

Btw - most walkons have a 'story' - not just scrub guys from Alpena...these are football players that got thrown off track for one reason or another. Not just a kid from Clifty that decides he wants to practice w the Razorbacks.

Get real.


So going by this match. Does bamma have more 2 stars then 4 stars?  I'l hang up and listen

twistitup

Quote from: wildhogman on February 11, 2018, 12:34:25 pm
So going by this match. Does bamma have more 2 stars then 4 stars?  I'l hang up and listen

Bama has 3 star walkons probably....do the research - don't know.

Let me know when you get a chance.
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

Pig in the Pokey

Quote from: twistitup on February 11, 2018, 07:12:27 am
This is a discussion of the 'roster' - as the thread title implies - it was also a discussion of how 2&3 star guys make All SEC and go to the NFL at a higher clip than any other star ranking....

Btw - most walkons have a 'story' - not just scrub guys from Alpena...these are football players that got thrown off track for one reason or another. Not just a kid from Clifty that decides he wants to practice w the Razorbacks.

Get real.
You dont get to decide the entire discussion just b/c you started a thread. Hell, you start 20% of the threads on HV. ridiculous.

It's irrelevant to the discussion b/c EVERYBODY has 2* and 3* walkons, it says absolutely jackdarn about a program. Why even include it in the discussion? You are just trying to back your way into some sort of face saving after calling Arkansas a 2* school when we sign , on average, 1.3 2*s per season LMAO. 1.3!!! that vs the average 6.5 4*s per year. Since you dont math good, thats five times more 4*s than 2*s on scholarship at Arkansas. Or, 500% more 4*s.

Also, the 105 man "roster" you keep bringing up. Riddle me this. How many players travel to a road game?  You know, the guys that actually might see the field; called a Travel Roster. Ill hang up and listen, Bart.
You must be on one if you think i aint on one! ¥420¥   «roastin da bomb in fayettenam» Purspirit Gang

twistitup

Quote from: Pig in the Pokey on February 11, 2018, 12:44:28 pm
You dont get to decide the entire discussion just b/c you started a thread. Hell, you start 20% of the threads on HV. ridiculous.

It's irrelevant to the discussion b/c EVERYBODY has 2* and 3* walkons, it says absolutely jackdarn about a program. Why even include it in the discussion? You are just trying to back your way into some sort of face saving after calling Arkansas a 2* school when we sign , on average, 1.3 2*s per season LMAO. 1.3!!! that vs the average 6.5 4*s per year. Since you dont math good, thats five times more 4*s than 2*s on scholarship at Arkansas. Or, 500% more 4*s.

Also, the 105 man "roster" you keep bringing up. Riddle me this. How many players travel to a road game?  You know, the guys that actually might see the field; called a Travel Roster. Ill hang up and listen, Bart.

It's not about who we sign....this thread is about the roster.

You can start about thread about scholarship recipients and their rankings, if you like.

Do you need help starting a thread or just want to bitch about being wrong? Btw, I think being loaded w 2&3 stars and walkons is a positive....you missed that part. It's not a negative, a positive.  I'm not a stars guy
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

Pig in the Pokey

Quote from: twistitup on February 11, 2018, 12:51:25 pm
It's not about who we sign....this thread is about the roster.

You can start about thread about scholarship recipients and their rankings, if you like.

Do you need help starting a thread or just want to bitch about being wrong?
you need to lay off the sauce; your brain is addled.

One more time. THERE is NOTHING to "discuss" about walk-ons. The are ALWAYS 3* or less, in every program, always. The ONLY exception to that is like a coaches son or a millionaire kid trying to help out the school, like a legacy player.

ARKANSAS is NOT a 2 and 3 star school. Its just not. It's a 3 and 4 star school, by ANY measure, even if you ARE counting walk ons. And you are literally the only poster in this thread who cant seem to grasp that. We still coolio in my book, but this is a lost cause.

it's /Thread. go ahead and get some pale ass last word in, im out.
You must be on one if you think i aint on one! ¥420¥   «roastin da bomb in fayettenam» Purspirit Gang

twistitup

Quote from: Pig in the Pokey on February 11, 2018, 12:54:59 pm
you need to lay off the sauce; your brain is addled.

One more time. THERE is NOTHING to "discuss" about walk-ons. The are ALWAYS 3* or less, in every program, always. The ONLY exception to that is like a coaches son or a millionaire kid trying to help out the school, like a legacy player.

ARKANSAS is NOT a 2 and 3 star school. Its just not. It's a 3 and 4 star school, by ANY measure, even if you ARE counting walk ons. And you are literally the only poster in this thread who cant seem to grasp that.

it's /Thread. go ahead and get some pale ass last word in, im out.

Very insightful....

You struggle at math, obviously
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

HogX

If we're going to go by the absurdity of the full roster, half of Alabama's roster is somewhere between unranked to 3 star.

https://247sports.com/Team/Alabama-Crimson-Tide-164/Roster

Vantage 8 dude

Quote from: HogX on February 11, 2018, 12:58:55 pm
If we're going to go by the absurdity of the full roster, half of Alabama's roster is somewhere between unranked to 3 star.

https://247sports.com/Team/Alabama-Crimson-Tide-164/Roster
A HUGE difference in 'Bama and almost every other program is that no matter how many stars a kid has they find a way to develop their talent and help them play to their maximum potential. Inarguably talent counts; however, it's what you do with that talent AND how you develop the potential of EVERY player that truly separates the great coaches and the programs they run. Under Saban the Tide has feasted on players of ALL skill/rating levels; it's one thing that's made the program so difficult to defeat.

HogX

I mean, I agree.  But that wasn't the argument here. 

twistitup

Quote from: Vantage 8 dude on February 11, 2018, 01:06:25 pm
A HUGE difference in 'Bama and almost every other program is that no matter how many stars a kid has they find a way to develop their talent and help them play to their maximum potential. Inarguably talent counts; however, it's what you do with that talent AND how you develop the potential of EVERY player that truly separates the great coaches and the programs they run.

Exactly

If anybody remembers Neb during the days when they were powerful...they had the best walkon program in the nation. O lineman would give up scholarships to small schools and walk on at Neb with the hopes of earning a scholarship.

One of Scott Frosts number ONE goals is the restore the redshirt program

http://www.omaha.com/huskers/football/recruiting/signing-day/scott-frost-hopes-to-expand-roster-with-goal-of-restoring/article_bc029f73-946f-5082-8b72-3b4db94cde38.html

"We want to make sure we have the right guys in the program, the right walk-ons in the program, as well. And guys we feel like can come in here and get in Zach Duval's (strength and conditioning) program, and get with our coaches and develop into players, and eventually be on the field and help this football team.

"That's what's happened at Nebraska in the past, and I'd like to see it happen again."

How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

 

HogX

Quote from: Vantage 8 dude on February 11, 2018, 01:06:25 pm
A HUGE difference in 'Bama and almost every other program is that no matter how many stars a kid has they find a way to develop their talent and help them play to their maximum potential.

Well, Oklahoma's roster is the same way.

https://247sports.com/Team/Oklahoma-Sooners-Football-39/Roster

And Clemson

https://247sports.com/Team/Clemson-Tigers-Football-3/Roster

And Georgia.

https://247sports.com/Team/Georgia-Bulldogs-Football-172/Roster

And Ohio State.

https://247sports.com/Team/Ohio-State-Buckeyes-Football-79/Roster

Etc, etc.

twistitup

One more time.....it's not about stars

It's about player development

All together now:

How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

HogX

Quote from: twistitup on February 11, 2018, 01:16:00 pm
One more time.....it's not about stars

It's about player development

All together now:

Odd, considering the title of this thread and the discussions that have been going on throughout it.

twistitup

Quote from: HogX on February 11, 2018, 01:18:23 pm
Odd, considering the title of this thread and the discussions that have been going on throughout it.

Why is the title of this thread considered negative?

In the spirit of not caring about stars and player development - It should be a positive thread.

CCM doens't care about stars - why are we so wrapped up in them? Let's develop some players and go win some damn games. Simple.
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

Pig in the Pokey

Quote from: HogX on February 11, 2018, 01:13:40 pm
Well, Oklahoma's roster is the same way.

https://247sports.com/Team/Oklahoma-Sooners-Football-39/Roster

And Clemson

https://247sports.com/Team/Clemson-Tigers-Football-3/Roster

And Georgia.

https://247sports.com/Team/Georgia-Bulldogs-Football-172/Roster

And Ohio State.

https://247sports.com/Team/Ohio-State-Buckeyes-Football-79/Roster

Etc, etc.
exactly. it's pointless to talk about the bottom half of a 105 man roster when only 22 players are starters on off/def. scholarship players matter much more. Like 98% of it.

Also, on the 105 again. ONLY 80 players can dress and play, not 105.
You must be on one if you think i aint on one! ¥420¥   «roastin da bomb in fayettenam» Purspirit Gang

Vantage 8 dude

Quote from: HogX on February 11, 2018, 01:13:40 pm
Well, Oklahoma's roster is the same way.

https://247sports.com/Team/Oklahoma-Sooners-Football-39/Roster

And Clemson

https://247sports.com/Team/Clemson-Tigers-Football-3/Roster

And Georgia.

https://247sports.com/Team/Georgia-Bulldogs-Football-172/Roster

And Ohio State.

https://247sports.com/Team/Ohio-State-Buckeyes-Football-79/Roster

Etc, etc.
Okay, I'll concede that Alabama is not the only program that can do such; however, they still stand out IMO as being the BEST at such. Whatever one takes away from such an observation is that NO MATTER the name of the program or the team MOST are able to take virtually ALL their roster, no matter rankings/stars and upgrade their play through coaching and other developmental techniques. That's why a COMBINATION of star power and talent development is IMO the best approach to ultimate success. The Hogs need to do a better job in both areas going forward.

twistitup

Quote from: Pig in the Pokey on February 11, 2018, 01:26:14 pm
exactly. it's pointless to talk about the bottom half of a 105 man roster when only 22 players are starters on off/def. scholarship players matter much more. Like 98% of it.

Also, on the 105 again. ONLY 80 players can dress and play, not 105.

I guess you've missed the point behind the whole walk on / player development discussion...
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

liljo

Wonder what ol' 3-star Chase Hayden would look like if we could slip a high school jersey on him this year and turn him loose...or any of a whole bunch of players on the current roster.

Guess he'd be in trouble if he had to try and turn the corner against a 4-star LB, huh... ;D

Yeah. And poor lil ol' TJ...he'd prolly just get tore up by some 5-star CB... ;)


You know, I've seen kids that just peaked earlier than others. When I was 20, I'd have been a real good addition to my high school team. But when I was 18, I was 15 pounds less muscle and barely shaving.

Hogville: A place where Hog fans gather to discuss all things Razorbacks in peace.

DeltaBoy

If recruiting was an exact science we never would have lost Toledo!
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

UAGolfer1981

I agree with OP, coaching is the largest contributor for Arkansas to compete for SEC championships.  Historically, we rank 9th in the SEC Recruiting.  During the Petrino and Nutt(gulp) eras, Arkansas competed for SEC championships.  We have proven we can compete with "average" SEC recruiting classes.  THERE IS HOPE!

PygmalionEffect2

QuoteOne more time.....it's not about stars

It's about player development

All together now:

President Donald Trump, on "60 Minutes," Nov. 13, 2016
"Facebook and Twitter were the reason we won this thing."

Hannity - This Nunes memo is going to make Watergate look like someone stole a candy bar.

 

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: twistitup on February 11, 2018, 01:16:00 pm
One more time.....it's not about stars

It's about player development

All together now:



It's about both, not just one or the other.
Go Hogs Go!

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on February 12, 2018, 08:19:02 pm
It's about both, not just one or the other.

Twist apparently just stays drunk all the time. 
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

twistitup

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on February 12, 2018, 08:29:53 pm
Twist apparently just stays drunk all the time.

I drink a bit...but alcohol is not my drug of choice

I agree, it's about a blend of stars and development...but I'm not a believer in the accuracy of the stars system
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....