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Heath, good coach, poor evaluator of talent

Started by kdogstew, January 29, 2007, 05:18:08 pm

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STRILE

January 31, 2007, 08:13:57 am #50
You have it backwards my friend.  He has great talent, but can't get anything out of it.
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stronguard

January 31, 2007, 08:19:04 am #51
Sorry Kdog.  Heath gets talent, he just doesn't use it to its fullest potential.

I will give you this though.  All of his "studs"  seem to lack in 1 aspect of their game.  e.g.  Hill has/had no offense, Thomas is too short for a PF, Brewer had all the tools but lacked the leadership, Earvin (though he may not have recruited him) is a PG who makes slow decsions (especially on the break)  Beverley is electric, but he's 6'1".  And the list goes on.

But one thing that STANLEY is not is a good X's and O's coach.  There is no logical argument to that.
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Bvilleboar

January 31, 2007, 08:24:14 am #52
I could not disagree more.  I and everyone I talk to think just the opposite.  I think he has tons of talent on the team but is not gettin the most out of them.  Look at most of the games we have lost this season.  Most have been decided in the final minutes of the game.  That is the part of the game when a good X/o coach does his work.  That is when we fail.  This team has talent.  When will it live up to its talent is the question.  Not a single senior on this squad, so maybe next year?
2012 the year of the HOGS

gduchar

January 31, 2007, 09:39:30 am #53
not only is he a poor x's and o's guy in terms of game preparation his in game adjustments are nonexistent and his late game management consists mostly of staring blankly into the rafters of whatever stadium he is playing in.

watch Hipscher on the bench towards the end of close games. many times he will be looking up at Heath as if trying to send him telepathic advice, such as UNFREEZE!!

1 hog n eldo

January 31, 2007, 10:30:46 am #54
What about "the best shot on the team" Preston Cranford the next Pat Bradley :o :o

pokeydaman

January 31, 2007, 03:03:17 pm #55
he hardly ever gets blown out on the road, but manages to almost ALWAYS lose them!! just two or three more baskets per game would win most of those!! That relates to X's and O's late in the game.
he hasnt been able to make in-game adjustments, IMO, but and if u cant do that, u arent gonna win alot. There is talent out there on every team now, just watch college basketball, and anyone can beat anyone now. The coaches make the difference. I just dont know why he cant coach consistency!!!

HogLove

January 31, 2007, 03:11:04 pm #56
Stew...You simiply don't know what you're talking about.  I could go on and on and tell you about the coaching mistakes Heath is making...about what their recruiting classes have been ranked...top 5, top 10, top 25 and top 15 (the past 4 years in the correct order).  And about Hill in a comment you made earlier...Branson I believe is 5A and I'm pretty sure that's not the only place scouts came to watch him...maybe on his AAU teams...or when he went to the Nike camp in Colorado with the top 20 high school players in the nation and broke the blocking record his senior year.  I don't know what team you've been "evaluating" but it hasn't been the Hogs.

Pignominious

January 31, 2007, 03:21:31 pm #57
I think most of you guys are missing this.  Stan Heath is both a good X and O's guy and talent scout, save a few mistakes(more on this later).  There is a third element that Heath doesn't have a lot of.  That is leadership/moxi/intangibles/etc.  That I think is his biggest problem.  It is simply stupid to think that Heath does not no how to coach X's and O's.  The man has been a division 1 head coach for over 5 years and a top flight assistant to a top flight coach.  "Heath can recruit, but he can't coach".  That just doesn't fly with me. 

His problems are that his players are not coachable or he is not communicating effectively.  We've also seen a few lapses of judgement on his part.  The Jefferson's, Bucknell, Lamptry, Making his team play slow at the end of 05, etc.  He has made a few mistakes which have been made more obvious with bad chemistry and bad luck.  Sometimes he makes some bad decisions and this is more obvious because the players that he has are not making plays, Famatimi, Modica, Ferguson, come to mind.  I think that Olu/Modica really dragged us down for a while.  Part of this is Heath's fault and some of it is from selfish play by both of those guys.

Heath is not stupid.  Some of you guys act like he is though.  I think his problem is simply getting maximum effort because he is to nice.  That is pretty aparent with Townes, who is simply put a 'head case'.  That won't be a problem if you get guys like Beverley, Thomas, and other super talented guys.  Heath has got his weaknesses like every other coach.  It remains to be seen whether Heath can assemble a truly great team that he can use.
Ray Biggers' third cousin.

HawgWyld

January 31, 2007, 03:28:21 pm #58
Quote from: kdogstew on January 29, 2007, 05:26:12 pm
Quote from: dish13-hog on January 29, 2007, 05:21:08 pm
Wow.  I think you bashed a coach and more players in one post than I have ever seen...

I actually like Heath as a coach.  I have defended him and will continue to do so as a coach. 

Do you disagree with my evaluations??? which evaluations would take issue with??  Perhaps I am mistaken.

I welcome your thoughts

Stew
For the sake of argument, let's say you're absolutely right. How would it be, then, if Heath got some top-flight help with recruiting from someone who can evaluate talent and recruit effectively? Who would be a good person to take that position?

gduchar

January 31, 2007, 06:03:35 pm #59
BearclawHog:

I consider in-game strategy, adjustments, proper clock management...all those little things that Heath does poorly to be part of the X's and O's umbrella. X's and O's is much more than drawing nifty plays on the old dry erase.

gduchar

January 31, 2007, 06:37:17 pm #60
also, his one good year at Kent State, Antonio Gates was a monster. that's a guy that didn't need coaching.

nocalhog

January 31, 2007, 06:43:01 pm #61
great talent.  "motion" offense.  enough said.  I have never seen people stand around more. 

cunetguru

January 31, 2007, 07:25:26 pm #62
Quote from: BearclawHogs44 on January 31, 2007, 03:21:31 pm
I think most of you guys are missing this.  Stan Heath is both a good X and O's guy and talent scout, save a few mistakes(more on this later).  There is a third element that Heath doesn't have a lot of.  That is leadership/moxi/intangibles/etc.  That I think is his biggest problem.  It is simply stupid to think that Heath does not no how to coach X's and O's.  The man has been a division 1 head coach for over 5 years and a top flight assistant to a top flight coach.  "Heath can recruit, but he can't coach".  That just doesn't fly with me. 

His problems are that his players are not coachable or he is not communicating effectively.  We've also seen a few lapses of judgement on his part.  The Jefferson's, Bucknell, Lamptry, Making his team play slow at the end of 05, etc.  He has made a few mistakes which have been made more obvious with bad chemistry and bad luck.  Sometimes he makes some bad decisions and this is more obvious because the players that he has are not making plays, Famatimi, Modica, Ferguson, come to mind.  I think that Olu/Modica really dragged us down for a while.  Part of this is Heath's fault and some of it is from selfish play by both of those guys.

Heath is not stupid.  Some of you guys act like he is though.  I think his problem is simply getting maximum effort because he is to nice.  That is pretty aparent with Townes, who is simply put a 'head case'.  That won't be a problem if you get guys like Beverley, Thomas, and other super talented guys.  Heath has got his weaknesses like every other coach.  It remains to be seen whether Heath can assemble a truly great team that he can use.

Fair evaluation...
 

pignatious

January 31, 2007, 09:03:29 pm #63
Quote from: gduchar on January 31, 2007, 09:39:30 am
not only is he a poor x's and o's guy in terms of game preparation his in game adjustments are nonexistent and his late game management consists mostly of staring blankly into the rafters of whatever stadium he is playing in.

watch Hipscher on the bench towards the end of close games. many times he will be looking up at Heath as if trying to send him telepathic advice, such as UNFREEZE!!

Awesome +1

You got that right. He never adjusts tactics during the flow of the game. That Bucknell game last year was so freaking obvious anyone but Heath could see they needed to speed up the tempo and press.
Freedom is never free.

HogLove

February 01, 2007, 12:06:11 pm #64
Mr. Bearclaws...you also don't know what you're talking about.  You act as though you are some kind of insider.  Maybe you should do more analyzing before you speak on a forum where you could run into ppl who actually are insiders.  I know the other day Heath went up to a player and asked, "I know there is a problem but what should I do...I don't know how to fix it..."???  Yeah, great coach!  Not to mention, he coached at Kent and didn't recruit a soul on that team.  He's been here for 5 years and he's done what...?!?!?!?!  You tell me...
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