CMA Grade

[bigdaddyhawg]

In the 90's I watched at least one college bball game every night of the season, in addition to attending most home games for the Hogs, and any tv games I could not make. Now, until the ncaat, I do not watch 2 hours, total, of college bball out side of the hogs. And Hogs games, I dvr, and fast forward through much of it. Have not been to a game since they played Okie St back in 03 or 04, can't remember which it was.

It is just not fun to watch, not worth my 2hr time commitment. Not just the Hogs, but college bball in general. I did not even watch much of the 1st two days of the ncaat this year, other than the Hogs.

Yep.  Not worth the time, sadly.  Why do the powers that be think a free throw shooting contest would be a good thing?

[hogsanity]

Yep.  Not worth the time, sadly.  Why do the powers that be think a free throw shooting contest would be a good thing?

Why do the players have to foul so much? They know there has been a emphasis on hand checks for 2 seasons know, yet guards continue to reach out and put their hands on the ball handler. Goes into a deep part of the problem, basketball IQ is seemingly gone. If players played a better fundamental game, a lot of the fouls would go away.

[Deep Shoat]

yep, a return to the old drunk sutton ball is your type.

Pretty douchey thing to say.  Eddie Sutton was a dang good coach.  His problems with alcohol are not deserving of ridicule.

[Deep Shoat]

Why do the players have to foul so much? They know there has been a emphasis on hand checks for 2 seasons know, yet guards continue to reach out and put their hands on the ball handler. Goes into a deep part of the problem, basketball IQ is seemingly gone. If players played a better fundamental game, a lot of the fouls would go away.

AAU has been the death knell of fundamentals.  Players spend mpre time with their AAU teams than anything else, and they are just a showcase for talent.  Very little teaching, and certainly not defense.

[hogsanity]

yep, a return to the old drunk sutton ball is your type.

You are right, Eddie was a horrible coach. 3 final 4's, 3 more elite 8's and 25 NCAAT appearances. Yep, that type of coach would be terrible.

[hogsanity]

AAU has been the death knell of fundamentals.  Players spend mpre time with their AAU teams than anything else, and they are just a showcase for talent.  Very little teaching, and certainly not defense.

Yep. In AAU they play very little defense, so when they get to college and have to do it, they do not know how.

Pretty douchey thing to say.  Eddie Sutton was a dang good coach.  His problems with alcohol are not deserving of ridicule.

They guy bashing Sutton is typical, they equate fundamental basketball with slow down, 4 corners stall ball, which is not what fundamental basketball is at all. You can be sound fundamentally, and still be uptempo, still press, etc.

[farmhawg]

Pretty douchey thing to say.  Eddie Sutton was a dang good coach.  His problems with alcohol are not deserving of ridicule.

he didn't coach his last years here, coach brown did while Eddie literally had to crawl to Kentucky. 

[farmhawg]

You are right, Eddie was a horrible coach. 3 final 4's, 3 more elite 8's and 25 NCAAT appearances. Yep, that type of coach would be terrible.

if you can keep him sober and away from.....never mind. If he was black you would have ran him off.

[mhuff]

Yep. In AAU they play very little defense, so when they get to college and have to do it, they do not know how.

They guy bashing Sutton is typical, they equate fundamental basketball with slow down, 4 corners stall ball, which is not what fundamental basketball is at all. You can be sound fundamentally, and still be uptempo, still press, etc.

[snortman]

You are right, Eddie was a horrible coach. 3 final 4's, 3 more elite 8's and 25 NCAAT appearances. Yep, that type of coach would be terrible.

Eddie was awesome, to bad some certain posters try and run him down. He started it all for us and yet some just don't appreciate.

[snortman]

He did things that he would be crucified today. He was not a good person but he won some games so it is all good.

Yeah and Vince Lombardi was a A-Hole from hades? What's your point?

[TheRazorbackGuy]

Yeah and Vince Lombardi was a A-Hole from hades? What's your point?

Lots of winning coaches were jerks. A lot of them won too. Eddie Sutton is the second best coach in Arkansas basketball history. Easily at that...

[WarPig88]

Lots of winning coaches were jerks. A lot of them won too. Eddie Sutton is the second best coach in Arkansas basketball history. Easily at that...

He isn't even second on the list for final fours here. Eugene Lambert has more final four appearances.

Just sayin it ain't cut and dried like some around here want to think.

[WarPig88]

They guy bashing Sutton is typical, they equate fundamental basketball with slow down, 4 corners stall ball, which is not what fundamental basketball is at all. You can be sound fundamentally, and still be uptempo, still press, etc.

Sutton was a 4 corners kind of guy. We played games in the 30s while Moncrief was here.

If not for the shot clock, Sutton would have remained a slow it down guy until he retired.

[TheRazorbackGuy]

Sutton was a 4 corners kind of guy. We played games in the 30s while Moncrief was here.

If not for the shot clock, Sutton would have remained a slow it down guy until he retired.

Who cares if a game is slow or fast? The only result that matters is Wins and Losses. Its like its not good enough if it's not entertaining. I for one like to watch 35 second ball movement full shot clock plays. Especially when you have a lead. Playing fast or slow makes no difference to me but the result of the actual game does. The styles and systems are overrated. There are 1000s of ways to play basketball and those 1000s of different ways need to be applied throughout a basketball game.

[WarPig88]

Who cares if a game is slow or fast? The only result that matters is Wins and Losses. Its like its not good enough if it's not entertaining. I for one like to watch 35 second ball movement full shot clock plays. Especially when you have a lead. Playing fast or slow makes no difference to me but the result of the actual game does. The styles and systems are overrated. There are 1000s of ways to play basketball and those 1000s of different ways need to be applied throughout a basketball game.

All sports are entertainment. They are only entertaining, not life or death.

The notion that the only thing that matters is the outcome is simply an opinion.

If 50 to 51 games are ok, why are so many people complaining about the collegiate game?

In the end, it really is just entertainment. All I can say is that you must have never witnessed 4 corners basketball. It's a huge difference between that and watching a team run offense for 35 seconds. LOL

[hawginbigd1]

He isn't even second on the list for final fours here. Eugene Lambert has more final four appearances.

Just sayin it ain't cut and dried like some around here want to think.

Oh yeah it is to rational people without an agenda! I don't know why giving Eddie his due is somehow a detraction from Nolan or Mike for folks like you! Guarantee you if Eddie doesn't build the foundation he laid, there is no Nolan or Bud Walton arena, or 40 minutes of Hell.

[gmarv]

I.ll give eddie his due, he was a good coach who left us and crawled to Kentucky.is that about right.

[WarPig88]

Oh yeah it is to rational people without an agenda! I don't know why giving Eddie his due is somehow a detraction from Nolan or Mike for folks like you! Guarantee you if Eddie doesn't build the foundation he laid, there is no Nolan or Bud Walton arena, or 40 minutes of Hell.

Arkansas has a basketball history beyond Eddie Sutton and Nolan. While what you say about the foundation he laid for Nolan is absolutely true, it isn't a slam dunk that Sutton was head and shoulders more successful than everyone else.

It just isn't.

Eddie is my second favorite coach by far. I only go back to Van Eman so I can't really say whether those other guys were as fun to watch or not. I can look at record books and see that they were successful though.

[TheRazorbackGuy]

I.ll give eddie his due, he was a good coach who left us and crawled to Kentucky.is that about right.

Arkansas was in SWC then and Kentucky was in the powerful SEC then. Kentucky job is better than the Arkansas job. That's true today and in Eddie Suttons days.

[WarPig88]

Arkansas was in SWC then and Kentucky was in the powerful SEC then. Kentucky job is better than the Arkansas job. That's true today and in Eddie Suttons days.

Sutton'philes are co dependents, IMO. It's fine to have enjoyed his time here, I did, but to act like he didn't take a swipe at our program as he left is laughable.

[hogsanity]

Sutton'philes are co dependents, IMO. It's fine to have enjoyed his time here, I did, but to act like he didn't take a swipe at our program as he left is laughable.

And suing the school isn't a swipe? Look Eddie was a great coach, without him, Nolan would never have been here because the program would not have been attractive enough to get Nolan to come.

Nolan was a great coach, he took the foundation that Eddie built, and constructed a championship on it.

Neither of them were perfect, as coaches or as people, no one is. Why do so many seem to feel you can only like one or the other, and not both for what they did here?

[hawginbigd1]

Sutton'philes are co dependents, IMO. It's fine to have enjoyed his time here, I did, but to act like he didn't take a swipe at our program as he left is laughable.

I have always been convinced that was solely intended as a swipe at one person, and one person only, and the UA was caught in the crossfire! JFB was impossible to work for, the only reasons why Sutton and Holtz left IMO.

[bigdaddyhawg]

And suing the school isn't a swipe?

No, it wasn't.

It was more like jumping off the turnbuckles and landing in the middle of the UA with an elbow to the sternum.

And screaming "racist" about anybody and everybody associated with the UA with a running kick to the crotch of the UA.

But it's all ok now.

[Nipsey Mussle]

And suing the school isn't a swipe? Look Eddie was a great coach, without him, Nolan would never have been here because the program would not have been attractive enough to get Nolan to come.

Nolan was a great coach, he took the foundation that Eddie built, and constructed a championship on it.

Neither of them were perfect, as coaches or as people, no one is. Why do so many seem to feel you can only like one or the other, and not both for what they did here?

That's a good, rational post.

[WarPig88]

And suing the school isn't a swipe? Look Eddie was a great coach, without him, Nolan would never have been here because the program would not have been attractive enough to get Nolan to come.

Nolan was a great coach, he took the foundation that Eddie built, and constructed a championship on it.

Neither of them were perfect, as coaches or as people, no one is. Why do so many seem to feel you can only like one or the other, and not both for what they did here?

Where did you read that Nolan didn't take a swipe at the school?

Is there a ghost thread I am unaware of?

I was talking about Sutton nuts who try rationalize his misdeeds here, which were many. There was a HUGE drug problem on the team. Several players would leave the team as a result by the end of Sutton's tenure here and his top assistant would be arrested for SELLING cocaine within a few years of his departure here.

There were legitimate reasons for friction between Sutton and Broyles. But don't tell that the Sutton worshipers.

[gmarv]

Sutton'philes are co dependents, IMO. It's fine to have enjoyed his time here, I did, but to act like he didn't take a swipe at our program as he left is laughable.

this says it very well I think eddie is a good coach but to act like he didn,t diss us when he left is wrong.

[HogsonHicks]

He isn't even second on the list for final fours here. Eugene Lambert has more final four appearances.

Just sayin it ain't cut and dried like some around here want to think.

This is incorrect.  Sutton and Lambert have the same number of Elite Eight (2) and Final Four (1) appearances. Also, the NCAA tourney was far larger and more significant during Sutton's era.  The NIT was actually equal (or higher) in status during Lambert's era.

Sutton gets a great deal of the "build the foundation" credit for Nolan because the basketball program collapsed in the 60s and early 70s.  He started the modern rebuild.

[TheRazorbackGuy]

this says it very well I think eddie is a good coach but to act like he didn,t diss us when he left is wrong.

Kentucky was and is a better job than Arkansas.

[gmarv]

Kentucky was and is a better job than Arkansas.

I don,t care if it was is or whatever.if you didn,t feel dissed when he crawled out of here for kenlucky.then...............

[TheRazorbackGuy]

I don,t care if it was is or whatever.if you didn,t feel dissed when he crawled out of here for kenlucky.then...............

I wasn't even born then or in diapers. But I know history and success was achieved in his tenure

[hogsanity]

I don,t care if it was is or whatever.if you didn,t feel dissed when he crawled out of here for kenlucky.then...............

I don't feel "dissed" by what coaches do, unless they are coaching ME. Eddie Sutton never did anything to me, neither did Nolan, or HDN or Petrino, or any other coach at the UofA or anywhere else.

I find humorous, and fascinating, how many people think the coach of a team is doing something to them personally. I guess when people derive much of their self esteem from what a group of 18-22 year olds do that is going to happen. 

[WarPig88]

This is incorrect.  Sutton and Lambert have the same number of Elite Eight (2) and Final Four (1) appearances. Also, the NCAA tourney was far larger and more significant during Sutton's era.  The NIT was actually equal (or higher) in status during Lambert's era.

Sutton gets a great deal of the "build the foundation" credit for Nolan because the basketball program collapsed in the 60s and early 70s.  He started the modern rebuild.

I did make a mistake about Lambert and one final four. Utah replaced one of Lambert's teams in the tournament after a car wreck severely injured 2 starters. Utah went on to win the NC.

Lambert was also 111-22 for win pct of 84% and the tournament was not a huge deal while Sutton was our coach. It was expanded twice AFTER he started coaching here. Truth is, it was harder to even get in the tournament during Lambert's tenure as coach.

The assertion that Sutton was EASILY the 2nd most successful coach here is just not supported by the facts.

[hogsanity]

I did make a mistake about Lambert and one final four. Utah replaced one of Lambert's teams in the tournament after a car wreck severely injured 2 starters. Utah went on to win the NC.

Lambert was also 111-22 for win pct of 84% and the tournament was not a huge deal while Sutton was our coach. It was expanded twice AFTER he started coaching here. Truth is, it was harder to even get in the tournament during Lambert's tenure as coach.

The assertion that Sutton was EASILY the 2nd most successful coach here is just not supported by the facts.

When Lambert was here the NCAAT was an afterthought. The NIT was the big deal back then. No one cared about the NCAAT.

Sutton was the second most successful coach here and that IS supported by the facts. The only ones who can't see that are still grinding an ax over hurt feelings from 1985.

[WarPig88]

When Lambert was here the NCAAT was an afterthought. The NIT was the big deal back then. No one cared about the NCAAT.

Sutton was the second most successful coach here and that IS supported by the facts. The only ones who can't see that are still grinding an ax over hurt feelings from 1985.

The NIT was a midseason tournament and was a big deal inside the world of basketball but not sports, but it didn't compete directly with NCAA tournament for teams.

Basketball in general is what was NOT a big deal then, and that was true under Sutton as well for half his career here. It wasn't until Bird and Magic squared off in the finals that college basketball started to take off as a nation wide phenomenon.

Lambert has a higher win pct, and just as many Elite 8s and Final Four appearances in what was a tougher ticket to earn at the time.

Not clear cut if you are objective, but I would probably not put you in the camp of the objective when it comes to Sutton.

Like I said, he is my 2nd favorite coach here as well, but I can't look at the historical records and crown him as the 2nd most successful coach here without as much as a challenge. There absolutely is one.

[hogsanity]

The NIT was a midseason tournament and was a big deal inside the world of basketball but not sports, but it didn't compete directly with NCAA tournament for teams.

Basketball in general is what was NOT a big deal then, and that was true under Sutton as well for half his career here. It wasn't until Bird and Magic squared off in the finals that college basketball started to take off as a nation wide phenomenon.

Lambert has a higher win pct, and just as many Elite 8s and Final Four appearances in what was a tougher ticket to earn at the time.

Not clear cut if you are objective, but I would probably not put you in the camp of the objective when it comes to Sutton.

Like I said, he is my 2nd favorite coach here as well, but I can't look at the historical records and crown him as the 2nd most successful coach here without as much as a challenge. There absolutely is one.

Eddie as a coach, I think is only behind Nolan here, and I think he is up there all time in college bball. As a person? Like all of us, he has his flaws.

[WarPig88]

Eddie as a coach, I think is only behind Nolan here, and I think he is up there all time in college bball. As a person? Like all of us, he has his flaws.

I think that is a fair statement and is true for me as well.

But dismissing a guy that had a win pct of 84% in any era isn't right either.

[hogsanity]

I think that is a fair statement and is true for me as well.

But dismissing a guy that had a win pct of 84% in any era isn't right either.

I am not really dismissing him. He was about 28 years before I was born, and I can only read about his teams and college bball in general during that time. It would be like comparing Hugo Bezdek to any of the coaches I was actually alive to see their teams.

[TheRazorbackGuy]

I am not really dismissing him. He was about 28 years before I was born, and I can only read about his teams and college bball in general during that time. It would be like comparing Hugo Bezdek to any of the coaches I was actually alive to see their teams.

When Eddie Sutton left I was 2 years old So it doesn't effect me on him leaving for a better job and better conference. Facts are facts and he is the 2nd most success basketball coach in Arkansas history

[hogsanity]

When Eddie Sutton left I was 2 years old So it doesn't effect me on him leaving for a better job and better conference. Facts are facts and he is the 2nd most success basketball coach in Arkansas history

you young whippersnapper. I was 15 when Eddie left. I watched the news, saw his quotes, never thought anything of it except here was a guy who was good leaving for one of the premier jobs in his profession.

[Cinco de Hogo]

I supported the hiring of CMA to the point of sending an email to Long.

That said,

B+

If I felt the program was in as good or better shape going into next year it would be an A.  If I expect us to compete for the SECC it would be an A+.

But the I'm a tough taskmaster. LOL

[TheRazorbackGuy]

I supported the hiring of CMA to the point of sending an email to Long.

That said,

B+

If I felt the program was in as good or better shape going into next year it would be an A.  If I expect us to compete for the SECC it would be an A+.

But the I'm a tough taskmaster. LOL

So what's the notion going into next season if we take a couple steps back?
I still give a B grade even forecasting the future next season

[Otis]

So what's the notion going into next season if we take a couple steps back?
I still give a B grade even forecasting the future next season

1 NCAA tournament in 5 years? I'll change my grade from a C to a D.

[wheelspigharvey]

1 NCAA tournament in 5 years? I'll change my grade from a C to a D.

Are you saying that's what you would give him if we don't make it next year or that's his grade now because you know we won't?

edit:  nvm

[Kevin]

If next year the hogs don't make ncaa tournament, to make it 1 in 5 years, any coach not named Anderson would be on the hot seat.

The only thing I predicted when he was hired, he would average 23 to 25 wins a year, get in the big dance and lose the first weekend.  And we hired a coach that cannot be fired.

1 ncaa tournament in 5 years is not cutting it but it does not matter, coach Anderson is home

[Nipsey Mussle]

If next year the hogs don't make ncaa tournament, to make it 1 in 5 years, any coach not named Anderson would be on the hot seat.

The only thing I predicted when he was hired, he would average 23 to 25 wins a year, get in the big dance and lose the first weekend.  And we hired a coach that cannot be fired.

1 ncaa tournament in 5 years is not cutting it but it does not matter, coach Anderson is home

That's a popular narrative on here. I hope you realize that saying "we wouldn't fire MA no matter what" is the same as "BB won't start anyone over BA no matter what."

MA hasn't been fired because his results have dictated otherwise. BA is our starter because he's the best QB as of right now.

Do  you believe he should be fired? Until you believe he should be fired and then isn't, how in the world can you say he won't be fired no matter what?

Before you respond with "here's why it's different..." think about how similar this narrative is to the ones you can't stand in MMQB.

Also, why can't we let next season's results happen before punishing MA and our players for having a bad season? I'm gonna take a wild stab that you wouldn't do that with our football program.

[Kevin]

Cbb will not start anyone over ba, and Anderson will not be fired

[Nipsey Mussle]

Cbb will not start anyone over ba, and Anderson will not be fired

And Lebron won't be cut from the Cavs. We now have three things that won't happen and at this point have no reason to happen.

I think you forgot to answer me..I asked if MA should be fired right now, in your opinion?

Simple question...I know it's tough to answer because then you admit you're merely speculating about him not ever being fired, even if he deserves it.

As a whole, we all need to stop taking blind speculation as 100% gospel on HV.

[Kevin]

No he should not. I never said he should. He is performing at almost the level I thought he would. I did think he would have back to back ncaa's by now.

[Nipsey Mussle]

No he should not. I never said he should. He is performing at almost the level I thought he would. I did think he would have back to back ncaa's by now.

Fair enough, and let's hope we somehow find our way to the back to back ncaas next season. Of course, it's an uphill climb for sure.

I'm with ya, though. MA hasn't been elite here but he's far from Pel's 2-14 conference record. I guess I'm not far enough removed from the Pel era to turn my back on respectability on a yearly basis. I may want more eventually.