Spot on article about Ole Miss...

[hogsanity]

Look, I know you don't believe Arkansas can ever be anything but an also ran but real fans always hold onto some measure of hope.  Carry on!

I hope they win every game. I think they have the talent to play with anyone on any given Sat. I DO NOT think they have the depth to do that 12-15 times a year.

Look, I know you believe that if the coach just believes hard enough, if the players just really want to win badly enough, and if the fans just yell loud enough, that will overcome when the other team just has better players all over the field. I know you believe the problem is that the players in the past 25 years just did not want it enough, the coaches just did not believe.

[KlubhouseKonnected]

Exactly.  No shortage of morons running around saying otherwise. 

Fire Petrino? Are you kidding?  We should have bought him a new motorcycle.

Enjoy that integrity you all seem to love so much.  Firing Petrino was a amateurish, goof move.

I did not want BP {edit} fired {edit} but there are several other contexts in which this can be considered which make it a much more difficult analysis.

[hogsanity]

BP was fired, and he isn't coming back.

Back to the OP. If you disagree with the article, then just what do you feel is Arkansas place in the PRESENT college football landscape.

[HiggiePiggy]

BP was fired, and he isn't coming back.

Back to the OP. If you disagree with the article, then just what do you feel is Arkansas place in the PRESENT college football landscape.

We are overall a Middle of the pack program.

[GuvHog]

We are overall a Middle of the pack program.

I disagree. Arkansas is not one of the "Elite" programs by any means, but they are in the upper level of college programs.

[hogsanity]

We are overall a Middle of the pack program.

Which, I believe, was the point of the article cited in the OP.

I disagree. Arkansas is not one of the "Elite" programs by any means, but they are in the upper level of college programs.

And that post shows the level of delusion some fans operate under. Unless we are using a very broad brush to describe upper level.

[GuvHog]

And that post shows the level of delusion some fans operate under. Unless we are using a very broad brush to describe upper level.

I consider Alabama an "Elite" program because they have basically dominated the Hogs through the years as well as a lot of other teams and almost always finish in the top 5. LSU, on the other hand is not "Elite" because they have not been that dominant. Both CBB and CBP are 2-2 against LSU at Arkansas and even Hooty had some wins over LSU while he was here. I consider Arkansas as being on the same level as LSU, Auburn, and Texas A&M, none of which are "Elite" but all are in the upper level of College programs. That doesn't mean the Hogs are going to beat them every year though.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

We are overall a Middle of the pack program.

We are in the SEC West but probably not in any other P-5 Division except the Big Ten East or the ACC Atlantic Division.

[hogsanity]

We are in the SEC West but probably not in any other P-5 Division except the Big Ten East or the ACC Atlantic Division.

I'd say we are middle of the pac in the power 5 conferences. True, it is hard to know how the hogs would do in the pac12 or BIG10, but being middle of the pack in that group still means you are a top 30ish program. A program that on any Sat can beat anyone, and in any one year could have that special run. But it also means it is not going to do those things every year.

[GuvHog]

I'd say we are middle of the pac in the power 5 conferences. True, it is hard to know how the hogs would do in the pac12 or BIG10, but being middle of the pack in that group still means you are a top 30ish program. A program that on any Sat can beat anyone, and in any one year could have that special run. But it also means it is not going to do those things every year.

This Hog program is capable of finishing in the top 25 every year if it's run properly. That's why I believe the Hogs are about to return to doing just that.

[DLUXHOG]

This Hog program is capable of finishing in the top 25 every year if it's run properly. That's why I believe the Hogs are about to return to doing just that.

+10000 if I could....

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I'd say we are middle of the pac in the power 5 conferences. True, it is hard to know how the hogs would do in the pac12 or BIG10, but being middle of the pack in that group still means you are a top 30ish program. A program that on any Sat can beat anyone, and in any one year could have that special run. But it also means it is not going to do those things every year.

I believe based on the production and competition in other conferences, that we are a little higher than a middle of the pack team in most conferences/divisions and in others, like the Big Ten West and the ACC Coastal, we might be a #1 to #3 team every year. We are just in the toughest possible division to play P-5 football in the entire country in most years.

[hogsanity]

I believe based on the production and competition in other conferences, that we are a little higher than a middle of the pack team in most conferences/divisions and in others, like the Big Ten West and the ACC Coastal, we might be a #1 to #3 team every year. We are just in the toughest possible division to play P-5 football in the entire country in most years.

I do not argue with that, only we have no idea to know how recruiting would be impacted if we played in another league. But that is also not the hand they are playing. They are in the secw and the row to hoe is really tough.

[GuvHog]

I believe based on the production and competition in other conferences, that we are a little higher than a middle of the pack team in most conferences/divisions and in others, like the Big Ten West and the ACC Coastal, we might be a #1 to #3 team every year. We are just in the toughest possible division to play P-5 football in the entire country in most years.

I agree Muskpogee, I rate the SEC this way:

Elite
Alabama

Upper Level
Auburn
LSU
Arkansas
Texas A&M
Georgia
Florida
Tennessee

Middle of the Pack
Mississippi State
Ole Miss
South Carolina
Missouri

Others
Kentucky
Vanderbilt

[hogsanity]

I agree Muskpogee, I rate the SEC this way:

Elite
Alabama

Upper Level
Auburn
LSU
Arkansas
Texas A&M
Georgia
Florida
Tennessee

Middle of the Pack
Mississippi State
Ole Miss
South Carolina
Missouri

Others
Kentucky
Vanderbilt

Ok, you have the Hogs in a group of 7 in a 14 team league, that's pretty much the definition of middle of the pack.

[GuvHog]

1.  Or graduated from the university.
2.  Or has been on campus.
3.  Or has ever seen a picture of the campus.
4.  Or who breathes oxygen.

Jesus Christ...   

You're still mad I called the Petrino "program killer" model from jump.

We're a slightly better than mid-pack SEC team with occasional positive outbursts.  And?

I've been on campus many times. Like I said, what BP did was only embarrassing to those who are over sensitive.

Naw, I'm not mad because you called Petrino a program killer, I just respectfully disagree with you.

Now if Petrino had done what Freeze did, THAT would be very embarrassing.

[gchamblee]

I'd say we are middle of the pac in the power 5 conferences. True, it is hard to know how the hogs would do in the pac12 or BIG10, but being middle of the pack in that group still means you are a top 30ish program. A program that on any Sat can beat anyone, and in any one year could have that special run. But it also means it is not going to do those things every year.

I know it is easy to throw rocks from behind the protection of we are what our record says we are, but I honestly think we are better than our record. I think we are better than a middle of the pack team, and I think we are on the verge of proving it.

[gchamblee]

I believe based on the production and competition in other conferences, that we are a little higher than a middle of the pack team in most conferences/divisions and in others, like the Big Ten West and the ACC Coastal, we might be a #1 to #3 team every year. We are just in the toughest possible division to play P-5 football in the entire country in most years.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

[GuvHog]

Keep hanging onto that straw man. If not for Bobby working it under the table, Dorrell is called by someone in UA Human Resources and is told she isn't qualified for the job.

You keep looking like more of a fool the more you type.

I'm not the one who looks like a fool. I specifically stated that Bobby Petrino influenced her hiring. Jeff Long did the actual hiring though.

[GuvHog]

That being the basis of your argument is why most on this board see you as a fool. Read the articles. You are trying to blame Long when he simply approved of the person of whom his head football coach wanted for the job.

I suppose with your logic a head coach hires no one........not even his coordinators or assistants. Yet every AD in the country allows their head football coach to build their staff with the people they want for each job.

Stop trolling. Petrino was a great football coach and playcaller, but he deserved to get fired with the nonsense he pulled.

It is a fact that Long signed the papers making her hiring official. He is as responsible for her hiring just as much as Bobby is responsible for influencing it. Without Long's signature, she doesn't get the job. You need to get your head out of Longs backside so you can see the truth.

[Cinco de Hogo]

I hope they win every game. I think they have the talent to play with anyone on any given Sat. I DO NOT think they have the depth to do that 12-15 times a year.

Look, I know you believe that if the coach just believes hard enough, if the players just really want to win badly enough, and if the fans just yell loud enough, that will overcome when the other team just has better players all over the field. I know you believe the problem is that the players in the past 25 years just did not want it enough, the coaches just did not believe.

Yep that quite the Grand Canyon between us isn't it?

[LZH]

Millenials.....ok is good enough.

[bphi11ips]

And that post shows the level of delusion some fans operate under. Unless we are using a very broad brush to describe upper level.

How do you define upper level?

There are 130 FBS teams.  Is 65 the dividing line?  32?  25?  How many floors are in this building?

Historically, Arkansas is a Top 25 program.  We are usually on the cusp of that in recruiting
rankings and various power indexes.  But we have a Top 10 schedule most years, and let's face it, FBS has ALWAYS been about number of wins, not who you beat.  Hasn't number of wins been the focus of virtually every thread for the last two months? 

Is Arkansas an "elite" football power?  Probably not.  Who gives a rat's rear?  What is "elite"?  Are former Arkansas football players with degrees in an "elite" category of job applicants?  Why do we even have a football program at Arkansas if we can't beat Alabama half the time?  Why didn't we shut it down when we could only beat Texas once every four years?

Arkansas is in a category of teams viewed from 30,000 feet as being in a category behind the "elite" teams (10 maybe?), but in the top 20% of FBS teams and able to bite a member of the "elite" at any time. If that's not good enough, buy an elite t-shirt.

[hogsanity]

How do you define upper level?

There are 130 FBS teams.  Is 65 the dividing line?  32?  25?  How many floors are in this building?

Historically, Arkansas is a Top 25 program.  We are usually on the cusp of that in recruiting
rankings and various power indexes.  But we have a Top 10 schedule most years, and let's face it, FBS has ALWAYS been about number of wins, not who you beat.  Hasn't number of wins been the focus of virtually every thread for the last two months? 

Is Arkansas an "elite" football power?  Probably not.  Who gives a rat's rear?  What is "elite"?  Are former Arkansas football players with degrees in an "elite" category of job applicants?  Why do we even have a football program at Arkansas if we can't beat Alabama half the time?  Why didn't we shut it down when we could only beat Texas once every four years?

Arkansas is in a category of teams viewed from 30,000 feet as being in a category behind the "elite" teams (10 maybe?), but in the top 20% of FBS teams and able to bite a member of the "elite" at any time. If that's not good enough, buy an elite t-shirt.

upper level of fbs, to me, is the top 2 or 3 teams in each league over a period of time, like a decade minimum. Arkansas is not upper level.

Arkansas has not been historically a top 25 team since joining the sec 25 years ago.

I did not say that what we are is not good enough, I have been arguing, FOR YEARS, it most definitely is good enough.

[PorkRinds]

How do you define upper level?

There are 130 FBS teams.  Is 65 the dividing line?  32?  25?  How many floors are in this building?

Historically, Arkansas is a Top 25 program.  We are usually on the cusp of that in recruiting
rankings and various power indexes.  But we have a Top 10 schedule most years, and let's face it, FBS has ALWAYS been about number of wins, not who you beat.  Hasn't number of wins been the focus of virtually every thread for the last two months? 

Is Arkansas an "elite" football power?  Probably not.  Who gives a rat's rear?  What is "elite"?  Are former Arkansas football players with degrees in an "elite" category of job applicants?  Why do we even have a football program at Arkansas if we can't beat Alabama half the time?  Why didn't we shut it down when we could only beat Texas once every four years?

Arkansas is in a category of teams viewed from 30,000 feet as being in a category behind the "elite" teams (10 maybe?), but in the top 20% of FBS teams and able to bite a member of the "elite" at any time. If that's not good enough, buy an elite t-shirt.

Hard to disagree.

[bphi11ips]

upper level of fbs, to me, is the top 2 or 3 teams in each league over a period of time, like a decade minimum. Arkansas is not upper level.

Arkansas has not been historically a top 25 team since joining the sec 25 years ago.

I did not say that what we are is not good enough, I have been arguing, FOR YEARS, it most definitely is good enough.

What you really meant was each P5 conference, right?  So you're talking about 10- 15 teams' right?  That's what most people consider to be elite.  Let's examine those teams:

Ohio State
Michigan

Texas
Oklahoma

USC

Florida State

Notre Dame

Alabama
Florida

Has Clemson joined the club?  Have Miami and Nebraska fallen out?  Was LSU ever in it?  Auburn?  Tennessee?  Wisconsin? Penn State?  Oregon? Arkansas?

You will frame the issue to support your negative viewpoint, as usual. 

[hogsanity]

What you really meant was each P5 conference, right?  So you're talking about 10- 15 teams' right?  That's what most people consider to be elite.  Let's examine those teams:

Ohio State
Michigan

Texas
Oklahoma

USC

Florida State

Notre Dame

Alabama
Florida

Has Clemson joined the club?  Have Miami and Nebraska fallen out?  Was LSU ever in it?  Auburn?  Tennessee?  Wisconsin? Penn State?  Oregon? Arkansas?

You will frame the issue to support your negative viewpoint, as usual. 

I must b doing something right, I've been accused of being negative in this thread, and of thinking unless we are elite we are no good, and of embracing mediocrity.

Yes, the top 2 or 3 teams in each p5 league make up what I consider the top level of fbs. Then the next 3 or 4 in each p5 league make up what I would call the middle class of fbs. Good solid programs, with upward mobility, but it is going to take some breaks to reach and maintain upper level status.

[bphi11ips]

I must b doing something right, I've been accused of being negative in this thread, and of thinking unless we are elite we are no good, and of embracing mediocrity.

Yes, the top 2 or 3 teams in each p5 league make up what I consider the top level of fbs. Then the next 3 or 4 in each p5 league make up what I would call the middle class of fbs. Good solid programs, with upward mobility, but it is going to take some breaks to reach and maintain upper level status.

That's fair enough.  See how the definition makes all the difference?

For you, elite = upper level.  I've been reading the thread overall as something different, where upper level is broader than elite.  When you introduced the social hierarchy analogy, your definition of "elite" becomes clear.  What you're really saying is that Arkansas is not the upper class of football.  Few would argue with that.

However, social hierarchy in this country is also generally considered to include an "upper" middle class.  That is probably where Arkansas belongs under your approach. Teams like North Carolina State and Baylor and Mississippi State, for example, might make up the middle class. 

[Cinco de Hogo]

upper level of fbs, to me, is the top 2 or 3 teams in each league over a period of time, like a decade minimum. Arkansas is not upper level.

Arkansas has not been historically a top 25 team since joining the sec 25 years ago.

I did not say that what we are is not good enough, I have been arguing, FOR YEARS, it most definitely is good enough.

I think you read people wrong for the sake of argument.  I think most fans put it in prospective when talking about Arkansas place it college football.  Elite is relative to what you possibilities are.  If we perform at our best and only go 9-4 or 10-3 or 11-2 we are elite to our fans while possibly never winning anything.  If we go 6-7 or 7-6 or 8-5 we are underperforming and are not elite.  Actually as you are well aware fans supported a lessor avg even as long as we looked good doing it.  Some of my favorite years as a Hog fan were Matt Jones years.  The teams under CBB neither attain that level of entertainment nor do they approach the elite status of the last two years of CBP.  So we are in a sorta flux like place where fans aren't certain about anything.

[gchamblee]

Millenials.....ok is good enough.

Millennials....I put this pie in the oven 3 minutes ago and it isn't done yet. This pie is broken.

[GuvHog]

I'm not a Long fan or a blind Bielema supporter. The jury is still out on both. A lot hinges on this season as to what their futures are at UA in my opinion.

But fools like you who try to blame Long and act like he could have kept Petrino after what he did are out of touch with reality. You simply want to win at all cost no matter if it damages the program. Look at Ole Miss. That's what they did and they are in shambles right now and a laughing stock.

Your arguments are pathetic and you ignore the obvious issue by making stupid and irrelevant statements. I'd love you to stand in front of the UA chancellor and BOT and tell them Jeff Long is responsible for the hiring of Jessica Dorrell. You'd be called a fool just like you are being called one on this board.

If you want to hate Long and Bielema, fine. But give up the ghost on Petrino. He followed his balls instead of his brain and he has no one to blame for that but himself.

When it came to Petrino's future at Arkansas, there were other options besides firing him and Long knew that. What Petrino did, didn't merit termination. Long was wrong, pure and simple. Say what you want about Bobby but he ran a clean program even though he had off of the field issues. Trying to compare what Petrino did to what is happening at Ole Miss is just plan silly because there is no comparison as the Ole Miss situation is more than light years worse. You embarrass yourself when you try to make that comparison.

I am not and never have been a "Win at all costs" person. I'm one who believes the Hogs can do things the right way and win but it takes a great coach to do that.

As for Bielema, I believe this will be his best year at Arkansas so far and I'm predicting the Hogs will win 9 regular season games this year so I most certainly am not anti-Bielema.

I don't hate Long either, I just don't trust him.

[hogsanity]

What Petrino did, didn't merit termination.

I am not and never have been a "Win at all costs" person. I'm one who believes the Hogs can do things the right way and win but it takes a great coach to do that.

Did not merit it .... TO YOU. Many of us feel that lying to your boss, and in this instance to all the fans and supporters of the program, very much did warrant or at least give ground for termination.

And you are a win at all cost person if you think we should have kept a guy who lied to his boss, and to the program, just because of 21-5

[bphi11ips]

That's very likely true at this point, but if the Hogs only manage 7 wins in regular season play this year, those numbers will start to dwindle to the point where you will likely be standing alone in a crowded room. Whether you have the intestinal fortitude to admit it or not, the Hog faithful are growing impatient.

What does my intestinal fortitude have to do with anything?

Are the faithful the ones buying tickets?  70,000 faithful watched Arkansas end its 17 game SEC losing streak against LSU. 

I've always admired South Carolina fans.  The Gamecocks didn't win an SEC game in 1998 or 1999, yet they averaged 78,000 those years in an 80,000 seat venue - with nothing that resembled Arkansas's tradition.

Maybe there is a level of frustration in the Arkansas fanbase in general right now, based mostly upon the way 2016 ended, but by-and-large, the vast majority of fans believe the program is headed in the right direction.  More importantly, it is one they are proud of.  A bad season this year won't change that.

[GuvHog]

Did not merit it .... TO YOU. Many of us feel that lying to your boss, and in this instance to all the fans and supporters of the program, very much did warrant or at least give ground for termination.

And you are a win at all cost person if you think we should have kept a guy who lied to his boss, and to the program, just because of 21-5

I'm aware that is your opinion but I respectfully disagree with it and I'm not alone.

I'm most certainly not a win at all costs person. Bobby's off of the field issues had nothing to do with how the program was being run. He ran a clean program and won. That is not disputable.

[hogsanity]

I'm aware that is your opinion but I respectfully disagree with it and I'm not alone.

I'm most certainly not a win at all costs person. Bobby's off of the field issues had nothing to do with how the program was being run. He ran a clean program and won. That is not disputable.

And just as many think it was justified.

I'll dispute the "won" part. In the end he won nothing but a bunch of games they were supposed to win. HDN had a 10 win season, so did Hatfield, Holtz and Broyles. It is not like they did anything under BP they had not done before.  And before you say BCS bowl, the program had been to many major bowl before there was the BCS. 2 Orange Bowls a couple Sugars and Cotton when it was one of the BIG4 NYD games. 

[GuvHog]

And just as many think it was justified.

I'll dispute the "won" part. In the end he won nothing but a bunch of games they were supposed to win. HDN had a 10 win season, so did Hatfield, Holtz and Broyles. It is not like they did anything under BP they had not done before.  And before you say BCS bowl, the program had been to many major bowl before there was the BCS. 2 Orange Bowls a couple Sugars and Cotton when it was one of the BIG4 NYD games. 

Before 2011, when was the last time an Arkansas Razorbacks football team finished the year in the top 5 nationally??? I rest my case.

[hogsanity]

Before 2011, when was the last time an Arkansas Razorbacks football team finished the year in the top 5 nationally??? I rest my case.

And what does top 5 get you when you only do it once every 20 or 30 years? People used to point out making a bcs bowl. In the BCS era, over 50 different fbs programs made at least 1 bcs game, including teams like Wake Forest, Uconn, Utah, and Hawaii.

[bphi11ips]

I'm aware that is your opinion but I respectfully disagree with it and I'm not alone.

I'm most certainly not a win at all costs person. Bobby's off of the field issues had nothing to do with how the program was being run. He ran a clean program and won. That is not disputable.

I agree with you about the mistress.  Although it created grounds for termination, a forthcoming and contrite Petrino probably would have survived.  But he wasn't forthcoming or contrite.  By all accounts, he lied to Jeff Long and wouldn't accept the life preserver Long threw him. It's difficult to fault Long under all the circumstances for his decision to launch Petrino, uber successful coach or not.

It's pretty silly at this juncture to continue to lament Long's decision.  Whether you agree or not, bringing a three-time Rose Bowl head coach to Arkansas was a coup.  You can quibble about whether Bielema's coaching philosophy is a good fit at Arkansas (I believe it is and much better long-term than Petrino's), but you can't quibble about the hire itself.  It was a home run for the program and rightfully perceived nationally as such.  It should have sent a message to all the naysaying "fans" here that Arkansas is a destination, not a stepping stone.  For that matter, Petrino's hire sent the same message.  You certainly can't quibble about the program Bielema runs.  What parent wouldn't be comfortable entrusting their son to a coach who has proven his dedication to the "student" in "student-athlete". 

Give it a couple more years and I think you will see the process take over.  Bret Bielema is building something akin to what Barry Alvarez built at Wisconsin, what Steve Spurrier built at South Carolina, and what Mark Dantonio built at Michigan State, with a sprinkling of what Bill Snyder built at Kansas State.

[GuvHog]

Whether you agree or not, bringing a three-time Rose Bowl head coach to Arkansas was a coup.  You can quibble about whether Bielema's coaching philosophy is a good fit at Arkansas, but you can't quibble about the hire itself.  It was a home run for the program and rightfully perceived nationally as such.  It should have sent a message to all the naysaying "fans" here that Arkansas is a destination, not a stepping stone.  For that matter, Petrino's hire sent the same message.  You certainly can't quibble about the program Bielema runs.  What parent wouldn't be comfortable entrusting their son to a coach who has proven his dedication to the "student" in "student-athlete". 

Give it a couple more years and I think you will see the process take over.  Bret Bielema is building something akin to what Barry Alvarez built at Wisconsin, what Steve Spurrier built at South Carolina, and what Mark Dantonio built at Michigan State, with a sprinkling of what Bill Snyder built at Kansas State.

I actually gave Jeff Long high marks for hiring Bielema and I believe this will be Bielema's best year at Arkansas so far. I've actually predicted that the Hogs will go at least 9-3 in regular season play this year so I'm not by any means an anti-Bielema guy.

[Al Boarland]

**

[Al Boarland]

I agree Muskpogee, I rate the SEC this way:

Elite
Alabama

Upper Level
Auburn
LSU
Arkansas
Texas A&M
Georgia
Florida
Tennessee

Middle of the Pack
Mississippi State
Ole Miss
South Carolina
Missouri

Others
Kentucky
Vanderbilt

You need to drop the Hogs one tier. Definitely in this breakout the program is middle of the pack. We are typically dogs in the upper level games and the middle of the pack teams are toss ups.

[GuvHog]

You need to drop the Hogs one tier. Definitely in this breakout the program is middle of the pack. We are typically dogs in the upper level games and the middle of the pack teams are toss ups.

That's where I rate the SEC teams on the national level.

Alabama is on the "Elite" Level nationally because they are ranked in the top 5 most every year.

The 7 teams I put in the upper level category means I believe those programs should be ranked in the top 25 every year if coached properly.

[bphi11ips]

That's where I rate the SEC teams on the national level.

Alabama is on the "Elite" Level nationally because they are ranked in the top 5 most every year.

The 7 teams I put in the upper level category means I believe those programs should be ranked in the top 25 every year if coached properly.

I agree with you and believe recruiting rankings and power rankings over time generally do as well.  Tradition and facilities certainly do.   

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I agree Muskpogee, I rate the SEC this way:

Elite
Alabama

Upper Level
Auburn
LSU
Arkansas
Texas A&M
Georgia
Florida
Tennessee

Middle of the Pack
Mississippi State
Ole Miss
South Carolina
Missouri

Others
Kentucky
Vanderbilt

I see it a little differently.

Tier 1: Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Texas A&M (A&M belongs here with their talent but have been held back by their HC)

Tier 2: Tennessee, Florida, Arkansas, Georgia (Arkansas belongs here despite having lost 2-3 games each year that they should have won)

Tier 3: Kentucky, Miss State, Missouri, Ole Miss

Tier 4: Vanderbilt, S. Carolina

Of course all of this could (and probably will) change this coming season.

[hogsanity]

I see it a little differently.

Tier 1: Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Texas A&M (A&M belongs here with their talent but have been held back by their HC)

Tier 2: Tennessee, Florida, Arkansas, Georgia (Arkansas belongs here despite having lost 2-3 games each year that they should have won)

Tier 3: Kentucky, Miss State, Missouri, Ole Miss

Tier 4: Vanderbilt, S. Carolina

Of course all of this could (and probably will) change this coming season.

You put them in a group they have not been in except for 3 or 4 year in the 25 they have been in the sec.

That's where I rate the SEC teams on the national level.

Alabama is on the "Elite" Level nationally because they are ranked in the top 5 most every year.

The 7 teams I put in the upper level category means I believe those programs should be ranked in the top 25 every year if coached properly.

Ranked in the top 25 EVERY year, yet in the 25 years in the SEC the Hogs have finished in the top 25 how many time? 4 maybe 5. You just keep proving the point the guy referenced in the OP made.

[GuvHog]

I see it a little differently.

Tier 1: Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Texas A&M (A&M belongs here with their talent but have been held back by their HC)

Tier 2: Tennessee, Florida, Arkansas, Georgia (Arkansas belongs here despite having lost 2-3 games each year that they should have won)

Tier 3: Kentucky, Miss State, Missouri, Ole Miss

Tier 4: Vanderbilt, S. Carolina

Of course all of this could (and probably will) change this coming season.

I respect your opinion but I just think Alabama ranks among the "Elite" teams nationally because rarely do they ever drop out of the top 5. Auburn, LSU, and Texas A&M struggle to get to the top 5 so I don't see them as being on Bama's level. I see the teams that I listed in the Upper level bracket as teams that should finish in the top 25 every year with good coaching.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

You put them in a group they have not been in except for 3 or 4 year in the 25 they have been in the sec.

So put up your own ranking.

[hogsanity]

So put up your own ranking.

Sec top level - Bama

Upper tier - Ga, FL, LSu

Middle class - om, A&M, Ark, SC, Aub, TN

Just getting by - MSU, KY, mizzu, vandy

[GuvHog]

You put them in a group they have not been in except for 3 or 4 year in the 25 they have been in the sec.

Ranked in the top 25 EVERY year, yet in the 25 years in the SEC the Hogs have finished in the top 25 how many time? 4 maybe 5. You just keep proving the point the guy referenced in the OP made.

I said they should finish ranked in the top 25 every year with good coaching. Arkansas hasn't had very much good coaching since joining the SEC. It isn't what the program HAS done, it's what the program is CAPABLE of doing.

[LZH]

Millennials....I put this pie in the oven 3 minutes ago and it isn't done yet. This pie is broken.

Nah, oven just isn't hot enough.