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How would I research this?

Started by HogMantheIntruder, June 26, 2016, 03:25:53 pm

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HogMantheIntruder

I have a theory on CBB's recruiting strategy that I'd like to look into, and it goes like this- Everyone remembers what happened during the final stretch of the recruiting season last year, right? I'd rather not relive it and I don't think CBB and Co. do either.

So I'm wondering if CBB looked at the Juniors he evaluated last year (and maybe multiple years) and realized that he was right about a lot of these kids who weren't the highest ranked players after their Junior year, but then blew up as Seniors. That would explain why we have so many commitments, but many don't have the offer list/star ranking (yet) that you might expect.

So here is my question to the HV recruiting gurus- Is there a way to find out what a recruit was ranked as of any given date? Also, is there a fairly easy way to see when a recruit was offered by each school? I have a full membership to 247 if that makes any difference. I'll hang up and listen.
"When life hands you lemons, just shut up and eat the damn lemons."
   -Harry Solomon

Vantage 8 dude

Quote from: Poppa Tart on June 26, 2016, 03:25:53 pm
I have a theory on CBB's recruiting strategy that I'd like to look into, and it goes like this- Everyone remembers what happened during the final stretch of the recruiting season last year, right? I'd rather not relive it and I don't think CBB and Co. do either.

So I'm wondering if CBB looked at the Juniors he evaluated last year (and maybe multiple years) and realized that he was right about a lot of these kids who weren't the highest ranked players after their Junior year, but then blew up as Seniors. That would explain why we have so many commitments, but many don't have the offer list/star ranking (yet) that you might expect.

So here is my question to the HV recruiting gurus- Is there a way to find out what a recruit was ranked as of any given date? Also, is there a fairly easy way to see when a recruit was offered by each school? I have a full membership to 247 if that makes any difference. I'll hang up and listen.
While I can't help answer your question, I do think your theory about evaluations and such may have some merit. It is interesting indeed that this year the commits certainly seem to be lining up much earlier than usual.

 

HogMantheIntruder

Quote from: Vantage 8 dude on June 26, 2016, 06:14:38 pm
While I can't help answer your question, I do think your theory about evaluations and such may have some merit. It is interesting indeed that this year the commits certainly seem to be lining up much earlier than usual.
Very interesting, and I refuse to believe that CBB is "settling" for lesser football players.
"When life hands you lemons, just shut up and eat the damn lemons."
   -Harry Solomon

jjdlc

I think you might be on to something.  We had several blow up after we offered them last year, so he might be going after them earlier.  Often easier to keep them committed than to get them committed to begin with.  Could be a few other things too.  Having this many commits this early might put pressure on others to commit sooner rather than later.  As someone else said in another thread, we currently have one of the best group of talent evaluators in the country. 

Another thought that I've had is that CBB and Co. are trying to add depth at positions where we are thin. Later on, after we have the needs filled, they can have more time to show special attention to the last few big names to fill out the class.

tampahog

Thats certainly one possibility.  Another angle I have on this is I wonder if he is now targeting players that are lesser developed out of HS and thus lesser likely to leave early thus giving them a full 4-5 years in the program.  I was trying to find out today if early departures were a problem for him at Wisconsin but couldn't find a listing of their early departures 2006-12.  Looking at our current situation, had all of our early departures returned for 2016 (Collins, Kirkland, and Henry plus potentially Philon who left after his soph year and Jonathan Williams assuming he was granted another year), we'd have much more optimism about our team heading into this season. 

HogMantheIntruder

Quote from: jjdlc on June 26, 2016, 06:40:25 pm
Another thought that I've had is that CBB and Co. are trying to add depth at positions where we are thin. Later on, after we have the needs filled, they can have more time to show special attention to the last few big names to fill out the class.
Whether my theory is right or wrong, I think you're right on this. We already have two LB's and two OT's committed, along with three WR's and three S/DB's. Definitely putting the numbers where we need them.

Quote from: tampahog on June 26, 2016, 07:02:00 pm
Thats certainly one possibility.  Another angle I have on this is I wonder if he is now targeting players that are lesser developed out of HS and thus lesser likely to leave early thus giving them a full 4-5 years in the program.  I was trying to find out today if early departures were a problem for him at Wisconsin but couldn't find a listing of their early departures 2006-12.  Looking at our current situation, had all of our early departures returned for 2016 (Collins, Kirkland, and Henry plus potentially Philon who left after his soph year and Jonathan Williams assuming he was granted another year), we'd have much more optimism about our team heading into this season. 
Ah, the Dan Mullen approach. It has worked well at Miss St. Still, I hope that's not the case (though I'll support CBB regardless). I still believe that Arkansas can regularly get top 15 classes, along with the occasional top 10. I think there's a chance that it can start to happen as early as this year, depending on what the product on the field looks like this season. Remember, we were really, really close to signing a top 10-15 class, right up until signing day last year.  The national perception of Arkansas football is changing for the better, and I just don't think that targeting lesser developed recruits is a step forward.
"When life hands you lemons, just shut up and eat the damn lemons."
   -Harry Solomon

HardingHog

Quote from: Poppa Tart on June 26, 2016, 03:25:53 pm
Also, is there a fairly easy way to see when a recruit was offered by each school? I have a full membership to 247 if that makes any difference. I'll hang up and listen.

If you click on a players profile on 247 there is a "Timeline" of all known notable events (offers, visits, etc) that have happened in their recruiting, and the dates they happened

HogMantheIntruder

Quote from: HardingHog on June 26, 2016, 08:47:46 pm
If you click on a players profile on 247 there is a "Timeline" of all known notable events (offers, visits, etc) that have happened in their recruiting, and the dates they happened
Good looking out. That helps a lot with the offers. Now if I can just find the timeline for their rankings...
"When life hands you lemons, just shut up and eat the damn lemons."
   -Harry Solomon

Arkamedes

Quote from: Poppa Tart on June 26, 2016, 08:58:43 pm
Good looking out. That helps a lot with the offers. Now if I can just find the timeline for their rankings...

Scroll down on the players 247 profile and you'll see a ranking and rating history. Good luck with your research! Woo Pig!
"The time is always right to do what is right." ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

"Rise above oneself and grasp the world." ~ Archimedes

Boss Hog in the Arkansas

I just said something similar to this over in MMQB. Recruiting services redo rankings every few months, so judging by the film of our current commits, there will be quite a few 4* on board. Hopefully they remain loyal!
That's right, you don't want to be the man to replace the man.  You want to be the man to replace Rory Segrest.

Exit Pursued by a Boar

Also remember that CBB has been here for three years now.  He's not playing catch up as much as he was.  He's had time to evaluate and analyze.  Last year may weigh on his mind, but it's just as likely he's offering players he's been following for a while, whereas before he couldn't. 

I admit to being a little troubled that our 24/7 average is a little lower than it's been in recent years. Yes, some will be re-evaluated by services and move up, but many others committed to other teams will also be bumped up.  Will our averages be higher than those of Rutgers, Texas Tech, or Iowa at the end of the recruiting season? I hope so, but I don't know that.

Since he IS offering earlier and getting commitments early, I am confident that CBB is getting players he wants. I suspect that more universally higher rated players are still on his radar and that many of the scholarships he has left will be held for those players, but I don't know that.


EFBAB

Hawgzinbowlz

Quote from: exit followed by a boar on June 27, 2016, 10:15:36 am
Also remember that CBB has been here for three years now.  He's not playing catch up as much as he was.  He's had time to evaluate and analyze.  Last year may weigh on his mind, but it's just as likely he's offering players he's been following for a while, whereas before he couldn't. 

...

EFBAB

True.

As we are only 5 months into the recruiting cycle for '17 NSD, CBB/Staff are offering, and taking commitments, from the quality of player that they believe will get us to Atlanta. They wouldn't waste anyone's time on anything otherwise.

Considering how today's recruiting is about developing long term relationships to get the players needed, in retrospect CBBs first class was very impressive.

We now have the luxury of using long term recruiting relationships to bring in high quality players that will give us the skill/depth needed to get The Hogs to Atlanta...and beyond.

" GO HOGS "

HogMantheIntruder

Quote from: exit followed by a boar on June 27, 2016, 10:15:36 am
Also remember that CBB has been here for three years now.  He's not playing catch up as much as he was.  He's had time to evaluate and analyze.  Last year may weigh on his mind, but it's just as likely he's offering players he's been following for a while, whereas before he couldn't. 

I admit to being a little troubled that our 24/7 average is a little lower than it's been in recent years. Yes, some will be re-evaluated by services and move up, but many others committed to other teams will also be bumped up.  Will our averages be higher than those of Rutgers, Texas Tech, or Iowa at the end of the recruiting season? I hope so, but I don't know that.

Since he IS offering earlier and getting commitments early, I am confident that CBB is getting players he wants. I suspect that more universally higher rated players are still on his radar and that many of the scholarships he has left will be held for those players, but I don't know that.


EFBAB
I really like your first point; I had not even considered that. He was recruiting (for the most part) in a whole different region of the country. As far as our rankings go, I fully expect many of these guys to wind up being 4*'s before it's all said and done. Their highlights are pretty impressive, and they've yet to play their Senior year of football.

CBB is one of three HC's on the staff, along with some really veteran assistants like Hargreaves, Mitchell, and Michael MF Smith. All of these guys have track records of pretty darn good talent evaluaters. I think we're going to be fighting off a lot of big name schools before it's all said and done.
"When life hands you lemons, just shut up and eat the damn lemons."
   -Harry Solomon