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All in on coaches

Started by Cinco de Hogo, January 04, 2018, 09:11:06 am

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Cinco de Hogo

It seems so easy for a lot of fans to go 100% "all in" on whatever coaches the PTB present us with.  I was probably all in for Petrino, critical to say the least on Bielema, cautiously optimistic on Morris while waiting to see his staff intact and how he manages the transition. 

Do you prefer to just trust the decision makers and throw your complete support behind their man or do you like to look at the information available and form your own opinions?  At what point in time do you give full support or pull your support.

Pork Twain

I prefer to let them coach a few games before I start bitching about a hire.
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

 

010HogFan

Quote from: Pork Twain on January 04, 2018, 09:12:54 am
I prefer to let them coach a few games before I start bitching about a hire.
+1

DoctorSusscrofa

I usually believe that the people doing the hiring are at least trying to hire good coaches they believe will work out. The usually don't hire my pick, but I don't believe they're trying to screw up. And the guy they hire is usually trying to do a good job, so I usually try to let him.
Fan of Razorback Football, Baseball, Track, Gymnastics, Softball - M Barton

Al Boarland

Always analyzing. Support the players.

ballz2thewall

i can best answer it this way

i support mike anderson

but as the years continue i grumble during conference play because he's going to get out coached.

after time the grumbling can turn systemic.

so, my temperature fluctuates with barometric and humidity changes. 
The rest of the frog.

jbigs77

The reality is that Morris is the coach and will be for some time. You can look at stats, style, past performance, and develop a opinion. But the bottom line is he is the coach. Any choices are a gamble, look at BP good coach, but personal flaws got him fired. BB, on the surface looked good, we all know how that went.
I want him to succeed, and will support him until I have reasons to not. If someone gets a job, and others are saying its over your head. Deep down, all you want is a chance to prove yourself.
Lets give him that chance, see where it goes.

lakecityhog

You can usually tell the guys that simply follow the trends by the new screen names. They will come in with the "we didn't come here to paint" or "Uncommon" or "Hammer Down". These guys seem to go all in with the current coach, defend him til the bitter end and then turn on him like a jilted woman.

Then you have the guys that are willing to support the new guy.

I think that I fall more into the let's give him at least 3 or 4 games before we even begin to figure out what we actually have!

SemperHawg

I take the position of being all in on the program, the coach is just a paid extension of the program and can be adjusted/removed if results are undesirable. 

hogsanity

Personally, I think ANY COACH is going to face the same headwinds here as any other coach, so I do not get excited/depressed about who they hire. I did not want Gus due to the price tag and the fact that he would be given 20 years to " try to get it done ". He'd basically have been here until he no longer wanted to be here.

I do not expect them to ever be anything other than what they have always been, and that is a program that will jump up to the 9+win range for a year or two, then fall back down, and only challenge for the division or sec title if things fall just right, which is where many programs are. Nothing about this program, in the current state of college football, says consistent top 25 program. Not schedule, not recruiting, not 26 years of history in the SEC. So why should I EXPECT that from any coach? If some coach does come in here and find a way to make them a consistent top 25 program, great, but it should not be a criteria to decide if a coach is successful here or not. 

That said, they also should not be consistently 4-8 or 5-7, they should consistently make a bowl, that is definitely not asking too much. 
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Snout team

IMO the only reason to not be "all in" with a new hire is so a person can say I told you so if it doesn't work out.  I am all in on Morris, not because I believe he was the best candidate or the best coach in the country, but because he is the coach of the Arkansas Razorbacks.  I will give full support until he proves me wrong.  I did the same with Beliema.  When it became obvious we were going in the wrong direction I said it was time for change.

For the sake of recruiting and just a general positive vibe around the program, I believe this is the best approach to take.  Trust them until they show us we shouldn't.  Hopefully they will prove that trust was well placed.

#hammerdown Lakecity
The scout team (snout team) is an important part of the team although it gets little credit.

Snout team

Lakecityhog your assessment of the situation is amazing based on screen names.   :)

Do you do palm reading as well?

You have no idea  :-X
The scout team (snout team) is an important part of the team although it gets little credit.

porkrindjimmy

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on January 04, 2018, 09:11:06 am
It seems so easy for a lot of fans to go 100% "all in" on whatever coaches the PTB present us with.  I was probably all in for Petrino, critical to say the least on Bielema, cautiously optimistic on Morris while waiting to see his staff intact and how he manages the transition. 

Do you prefer to just trust the decision makers and throw your complete support behind their man or do you like to look at the information available and form your own opinions?  At what point in time do you give full support or pull your support.

Depends on the hire, the fit.

Chad Morris, I am all in.

PRJ

 

OneTuskOverTheLine™

Quote from: Pork Twain on January 04, 2018, 09:12:54 am
I prefer to let them coach a few games before I start bitching about a hire.

Even then I try to weigh what I see by more than just the "smell test"... I'm all-in until I'm not. Unfortunately that was game #2 for me this year with Be, uh Buel, uh beleemuh.. ;)
Quote from: capehog on March 12, 2010...
My ex wife had a pet monkey I used to play with. That was one of the few things I liked about her

quote from: golf2day on June 19, 2014....
I'm disgusted, but kinda excited. Now I'm disgusted that I'm excited.

Cotton

Any coach that wears the Hog logo on his shirt will start out with 100% blind support from myself and a clean slate...
"Who got a Scantron for Ryan Mallet?"  - Ryan Mallet, 2009

Razorbacks in Mexico

Ponderin' SUX

hogsanity

Quote from: #hammerdown on January 04, 2018, 09:37:22 am
IMO the only reason to not be "all in" with a new hire is so a person can say I told you so if it doesn't work out.  I am all in on Morris, not because I believe he was the best candidate or the best coach in the country, but because he is the coach of the Arkansas Razorbacks.  I will give full support until he proves me wrong.  I did the same with Beliema.  When it became obvious we were going in the wrong direction I said it was time for change.

For the sake of recruiting and just a general positive vibe around the program, I believe this is the best approach to take.  Trust them until they show us we shouldn't.  Hopefully they will prove that trust was well placed.

#hammerdown Lakecity


What is the point of "being all in " on a coach though, as a fan. The only people that need to be all in are the players and the staff. It matters not one whit if you or I are " all in " for a coach.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Wildhog

My opinions don't change based on who was hired.  Morris was a bit further down my list during the coaching search, and the reasons for that haven't changed.  I do fully support him, though, and hope he wins a ton of games in his time here.  Cautiously optimistic is a good way to put it. 
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

okrazorback

Quote from: Pork Twain on January 04, 2018, 09:12:54 am
I prefer to let them coach a few games before I start bitching about a hire.

Or bragging about one.

Cotton

Quote from: hogsanity on January 04, 2018, 09:50:15 am
What is the point of "being all in " on a coach though, as a fan. The only people that need to be all in are the players and the staff. It matters not one whit if you or I are " all in " for a coach.
I get your point... but when all of Razorback Nation is behind everybody on the hill with full support it helps boost moral and confidence... It's contagious and spreads like wildfire.... unfortunately skepticism/negativity is more contagious and cancerous.   
"Who got a Scantron for Ryan Mallet?"  - Ryan Mallet, 2009

Razorbacks in Mexico

Ponderin' SUX

DoctorSusscrofa

Quote from: hogsanity on January 04, 2018, 09:50:15 am
What is the point of "being all in " on a coach though, as a fan. The only people that need to be all in are the players and the staff. It matters not one whit if you or I are " all in " for a coach.

It matters some. No coach keeps his job long if he can't get and keep a lot of fans "all in."  The PTB would have kept HDN if a significant portion of the fans had not soured. And we might still have B.B. if fan frustration had not grown.
Fan of Razorback Football, Baseball, Track, Gymnastics, Softball - M Barton

Pudgepork

Does a fan have a say in the decision?  The real answer is no.  You have to trust that the decision makers want whats best.  Unlike the complainers, they have actually met the man. 

The ones complaining the loudest are disruptive and a burdon to moving forward. Their complaints only breed distention and doesn't add anything positive

OneTuskOverTheLine™

Quote from: hogsanity on January 04, 2018, 09:50:15 am
What is the point of "being all in " on a coach though, as a fan. The only people that need to be all in are the players and the staff. It matters not one whit if you or I are " all in " for a coach.
Who is helped by being all Missouri about it..? As long as the PTB don't go all stoopid with a buy out we will see soon enough. I, for one, expect a terrible year ahead, but I expect a recruiting class that will set us up for the future in 2019. This offense is complicated and everyone from the Seniors on down will basically be freshmen in the system. We know that talent is an issue as far as beating Bama goes. We may surprise a few teams, but I can't put an expectation on this next year until I see some results on the field; and even then I'm willing to give the coach some modicum of time to get this team prepared. The 2019 season will be time to start being judgmental if we don't see improvement all around.
Quote from: capehog on March 12, 2010...
My ex wife had a pet monkey I used to play with. That was one of the few things I liked about her

quote from: golf2day on June 19, 2014....
I'm disgusted, but kinda excited. Now I'm disgusted that I'm excited.

jkstock04

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on January 04, 2018, 09:11:06 am
It seems so easy for a lot of fans to go 100% "all in" on whatever coaches the PTB present us with.  I was probably all in for Petrino, critical to say the least on Bielema, cautiously optimistic on Morris while waiting to see his staff intact and how he manages the transition. 

Do you prefer to just trust the decision makers and throw your complete support behind their man or do you like to look at the information available and form your own opinions?  At what point in time do you give full support or pull your support.
Pretty much same boat I'm in. I'm cautiously optimistic on Morris...at the end of the day he's not Bret Bielema so it can't be any worse. I'm not the type that can blindly ignore and brush off Morris' head coaching stint at SMU...but I can maybe buy into some of the "it's SMU" noise considering their academic requirements. You look at James Franklin at Vandy...maybe this could be a similar story if Morris is actually legit.

Bielema proved pretty much nothing here, therefore I never believed in what he was doing here. If we go 0-8 in conference under Morris this season I'll firmly be off the wagon and not a believer. Arkansas, for our shortfalls...should never win 0 conference games with a smile like we did with Bielema and simply blame it on the previous coach. Gotta have some reason for optimism other than a Rick Shaffer song and dance.

So ya, proof is in the pudding. If we just suck like we did under Bielema that's when I pull support to answer your OP. I don't blindly follow because a guy wearing a suit tells me to.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

oldhawg

The decision has been made.  My opinion carries no weight.  I have no influence or sources.

At this point I will wait until I have something to be unhappy about before I criticize.

In the meantime ---- Razorbacks are undefeated with Morris as head coach.  No need to deal with the disappointment of a loss until it happens.  Looking forward to the coming season more than I have in a couple years or so. 

Planning a trip to Fort Collins September 8th to see Razorbacks vs Rams.  Air Force Academy has a home game on September 1st  and maybe September 15th; will try to attend one of those games also. 

Think my wife and I may work in a side trip to Durango, take the train to Silverton, spend a night or two there, and enjoy early fall in the Rockies, while celebrating a Razorback victory over Colorado State.  Colorado and the Rockies should be pretty that time of year.

Optimism is high.

 

GuvHog

Quote from: lakecityhog on January 04, 2018, 09:23:37 am
You can usually tell the guys that simply follow the trends by the new screen names. They will come in with the "we didn't come here to paint" or "Uncommon" or "Hammer Down". These guys seem to go all in with the current coach, defend him til the bitter end and then turn on him like a jilted woman.

Then you have the guys that are willing to support the new guy.

I think that I fall more into the let's give him at least 3 or 4 games before we even begin to figure out what we actually have!

The line in bold is pretty well where I fit. I'm not "All In" on Chad Morris....yet, because I believe he was the wrong hire. He and the team have my support though, because first and foremost when it comes to sports, I'm a dyed in the wool Hog fan. No coach will ever cause me to walk away from supporting the Hogs. I'm looking forward to seeing what Coach Morris can do with this team.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

jgphillips3

I was all in for Nutt because apathy had set in during Ford and anything seemed better after the futility of the mid 90's.  I was 100% all in for Petrino and shocked at our luck.  I hated the Bielema hire from day one but decided to give him a chance, then just when I was beginning to believe in him he proved my initial assessment right.  With Morris I am definitely in for him.  Unlike Petrino, I don't think he is a "can't miss" hire, but I believe he can be every bit as good and maybe better.  Basically, if the hire makes sense, I'm in.  Bielema was a terrible hire from day one.  Just a bad fit all around for what we needed.  On paper, it made sense but all the intangibles pointed to the disaster that unfolded.  Morris is the anti-Bielema in that regard.  On paper as a head coach, unimpressive, but the intangibles are through the roof.

oldhawg

Quote from: jgphillips3 on January 04, 2018, 10:37:08 am
I was all in for Nutt because apathy had set in during Ford and anything seemed better after the futility of the mid 90's.  I was 100% all in for Petrino and shocked at our luck.  I hated the Bielema hire from day one but decided to give him a chance, then just when I was beginning to believe in him he proved my initial assessment right.  With Morris I am definitely in for him.  Unlike Petrino, I don't think he is a "can't miss" hire, but I believe he can be every bit as good and maybe better.  Basically, if the hire makes sense, I'm in.  Bielema was a terrible hire from day one.  Just a bad fit all around for what we needed.  On paper, it made sense but all the intangibles pointed to the disaster that unfolded.  Morris is the anti-Bielema in that regard.  On paper as a head coach, unimpressive, but the intangibles are through the roof.

Good analysis and opinions.  Stadium should be "rocking" next year with anticipation of better things to come.  Razorback football had certainly entered the doldrums with the thought of Bielema returning for another year.
Optimism should be higher, even among the naysayers.

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: GuvHog on January 04, 2018, 10:31:11 am
The line in bold is pretty well where I fit. I'm not "All In" on Chad Morris....yet, because I believe he was the wrong hire. He and the team have my support though, because first and foremost when it comes to sports, I'm a dyed in the wool Hog fan. No coach will ever cause me to walk away from supporting the Hogs. I'm looking forward to seeing what Coach Morris can do with this team.

I supported Bielema for four years while believing he was the wrong coach for Arkansas so it can be done and as someone said you really are supporting the players and program.  At least up and until you decide it's clearly not going to work.  I finally made up my mind at about the second or third game this year when it was apparent nothing had changed for the better.  Before late in the season you won't find a post where I said anything about firing him and I don't think I ever disrespected him in any way that was directly connected to the game.

After Malzahn said no I couldn't say I was all in on any other coach, not that I was all out on any of the top choices either.  Chad Morris is sufficient and he has my support.  I am also more excited about the coming season.  It's just dang interesting to think about the possibilities. 

GuvHog

Quote from: oldhawg on January 04, 2018, 10:42:44 am
Good analysis and opinions.  Stadium should be "rocking" next year with anticipation of better things to come.  Razorback football had certainly entered the doldrums with the thought of Bielema returning for another year.
Optimism should be higher, even among the naysayers.

I'm definitely more optimistic with Chad Morris at the Helm than I would be if Bret had been given another year.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

bphi11ips

Quote from: hogsanity on January 04, 2018, 09:35:30 am
Personally, I think ANY COACH is going to face the same headwinds here as any other coach, so I do not get excited/depressed about who they hire. I did not want Gus due to the price tag and the fact that he would be given 20 years to " try to get it done ". He'd basically have been here until he no longer wanted to be here.

I do not expect them to ever be anything other than what they have always been, and that is a program that will jump up to the 9+win range for a year or two, then fall back down, and only challenge for the division or sec title if things fall just right, which is where many programs are. Nothing about this program, in the current state of college football, says consistent top 25 program. Not schedule, not recruiting, not 26 years of history in the SEC. So why should I EXPECT that from any coach? If some coach does come in here and find a way to make them a consistent top 25 program, great, but it should not be a criteria to decide if a coach is successful here or not. 

That said, they also should not be consistently 4-8 or 5-7, they should consistently make a bowl, that is definitely not asking too much. 

I agree with you about headwinds, but other than tougher competition, they are the same headwinds Frank Broyles faced in 1958.  Chad Morris may start with better sails than Broyles, though.

I disagree about Top 25 program.  You and many others emphasize recruiting rankings.  Arkansas averages finishing just outside the Top 25 in that respect.  We may not win enough games to be ranked at seasons end as often as we were from 1960 to 1990, but that won't necessarily mean we aren't one of the best 25 teams in college football. 

I knew Jack Crowe wasn't a long-term solution, but Broyles got caught in a pinch and went with a successful OC and a returning senior QB.  No one knew that would end 30 years of fundamentally sound defense and special teams.  Broyles was the Frank Beamer of his day.  Hatfield was much the same. 

Broyles brought Danny Ford in to return Arkansas's identity.  I liked that hire but Ford lacked the fire in the belly he had at Clemson. 

I was in an airport when I heard the news about Houston Nutt.  I jumped up and down and said "No, no, no" and people were staring.  Then he did well and then okay and then flushed the most talented team we have had since 1977. 

I was in a hotel room the night Petrino was hired. I was stunned and very excited.  Then I thought he turned Arkansas into a Louisville-caliber school, and that's the best a lot of posters here think we can do. 

I was on a client's tour bus with a Nebraska fan when I heard about Bielema.  Everyone was impressed but me.  I said "huh?".  Came out of the blue, but I had to admit the guy had a good resume.  The Nebraska fan said we would love him and that his teams are"scrappy".  I liked his philosophy and still do.  I didn't like getting our heads handed to us by SEC power teams under Petrino.  By this year it was apparent that there was a disconnect between what Bielema said and the way his teams played.

I didn't know much about Chad Morris until he was hired.  What I do like is that Jeff Long is gone.  I think that Chad Morris may be the best fit at Arkansas since Frank Broyles, but I said that about Bielema, too.  With Bielema it was about philosophy.  With Morris, it's more about vision, and I think that's what it was about with Broyles.  Broyle's was an offensive guy, too. 

No matter what, I'm going to continue to believe that Arkansas is going to be a great football program again soon.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

GuvHog

Quote from: bphi11ips on January 04, 2018, 11:18:44 am
I agree with you about headwinds, but other than tougher competition, they are the same headwinds Frank Broyles faced in 1958.  Chad Morris may start with better sails than Broyles, though.

I disagree about Top 25 program.  You and many others emphasize recruiting rankings.  Arkansas averages finishing just outside the Top 25 in that respect.  We may not win enough games to be ranked at seasons end as often as we were from 1960 to 1990, but that won't necessarily mean we aren't one of the best 25 teams in college football. 

I knew Jack Crowe wasn't a long-term solution, but Broyles got caught in a pinch and went with a successful OC and a returning senior QB.  No one knew that would end 30 years of fundamentally sound defense and special teams.  Broyles was the Frank Beamer of his day.  Hatfield was much the same. 

Broyles brought Danny Ford in to return Arkansas's identity.  I liked that hire but Ford lacked the fire in the belly he had at Clemson. 

I was in an airport when I heard the news about Houston Nutt.  I jumped up and down and said "No, no, no" and people were staring.  Then he did well and then okay and then flushed the most talented team we have had since 1977. 

I was in a hotel room the night Petrino was hired. I was stunned and very excited.  Then I thought he turned Arkansas into a Louisville-caliber school, and that's the best a lot of posters here think we can do. 

I was on a client's tour bus with a Nebraska fan when I heard about Bielema.  Everyone was impressed but me.  I said "huh?".  Came out of the blue, but I had to admit the guy had a good resume.  The Nebraska fan said we would love him and that his teams are"scrappy".  I liked his philosophy and still do.  I didn't like getting our heads handed to us by SEC power teams under Petrino.  By this year it was apparent that there was a disconnect between what Bielema said and the way his teams played.

I didn't know much about Chad Morris until he was hired.  What I do like is that Jeff Long is gone.  I think that Chad Morris may be the best fit at Arkansas since Frank Broyles, but I said that about Bielema, too.  With Bielema it was about philosophy.  With Morris, it's more about vision, and I think that's what it was about with Broyles.  Broyle's was an offensive guy, too. 

No matter what, I'm going to continue to believe that Arkansas is going to be a great football program again soon.

Comparing Chad Morris to Frank Broyles is putting Chad in pretty high cotton and if that turns out to be true, I'll no doubt very much enjoy it.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

bphi11ips

Quote from: GuvHog on January 04, 2018, 11:34:27 am
Comparing Chad Morris to Frank Broyles is putting Chad in pretty high cotton and if that turns out to be true, I'll no doubt very much enjoy it.

Comparing Chad Morris in 2017 to Frank Broyles in 1958 is not a stretch.  Comparing Arkansas as a program in 2017 to 1958 isn't either.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: bphi11ips on January 04, 2018, 11:58:43 am
Comparing Chad Morris in 2017 to Frank Broyles in 1958 is not a stretch.  Comparing Arkansas as a program in 2017 to 1958 isn't either.

The only stretch I would see is SWC vs SEC and then you have the intergration thingy.

The Kig

Ego and money get in the way almost every time with the PTB.  Lack of influence, bias, and information get in the way of the rest of us.   Both decision making processes are flawed by human nature.  Panic ensues when Gruden, Saban and Belichik don't immediately sign.

During the HC search, I stated that it was completely reasonable for us as fans to have a favorite and defend why we believe our guy is a better option than the rest of the pool.  However, once the dust settles and a coach is named, he has my support until results show otherwise.  There were some epic threads during that time...

As a Razorback fan, if at the beginning we are divided it will only fester a grow until no amount of success will stop the fire.  Primarily for that reason, either the Gus or Kiffin projects were going to be unmitigated disasters.   Bielema wasn't my first choice, but he did have my support until last year, even though it was becoming apparent there was a problem before then.  Morris wasn't even on my list...but absolutely has my support now.  Not because I trust the PTB, but because he is our coach and deserves the chance to succeed and I gain nothing by undermining that opportunity.  Not supporting him hurts something that I love... the Razorbacks.  The time for questioning who should be our coach has passed. 

Poker Porker

Hardcore Hoggy

I simply acknowledge that I have no say in who the coach is and root for the program regardless.


I reserve the right to bitch about any coach when they make even the slightest error , however.

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: The Kig on January 04, 2018, 12:03:04 pm
Ego and money get in the way almost every time with the PTB.  Lack of influence, bias, and information get in the way of the rest of us.   Both decision making processes are flawed by human nature.  Panic ensues when Gruden, Saban and Belichik don't immediately sign.

During the HC search, I stated that it was completely reasonable for us as fans to have a favorite and defend why we believe our guy is a better option than the rest of the pool.  However, once the dust settles and a coach is named, he has my support until results show otherwise.  There were some epic threads during that time...

As a Razorback fan, if at the beginning we are divided it will only fester a grow until no amount of success will stop the fire.  Primarily for that reason, either the Gus or Kiffin projects were going to be unmitigated disasters.   Bielema wasn't my first choice, but he did have my support until last year, even though it was becoming apparent there was a problem before then.  Morris wasn't even on my list...but absolutely has my support now.  Not because I trust the PTB, but because he is our coach and deserves the chance to succeed and I gain nothing by undermining that opportunity.  Not supporting him hurts something that I love... the Razorbacks.  The time for questioning who should be our coach has passed.

You last sentence is correct and probably the only time in my life I didn't follow that advice was with Bielema.  I guess my opinion was so strong I couldn't keep it down, sorta like a bad bad dinner.

Wildhog

Quote from: Hardcore Hoggy on January 04, 2018, 12:05:13 pm
I simply acknowledge that I have no say in who the coach is and root for the program regardless.


I reserve the right to bitch about any coach when they make even the slightest error , however.

Pretty much this.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: Hardcore Hoggy on January 04, 2018, 12:05:13 pm
I simply acknowledge that I have no say in who the coach is and root for the program regardless.


I reserve the right to bitch about any coach when they make even the slightest error , however.

LOL!

HaHaHaHa!

bphi11ips

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on January 04, 2018, 12:02:59 pm
The only stretch I would see is SWC vs SEC and then you have the intergration thingy.

For the most part the same schools that dominated college football in the 50s and 60s are the same schools dominating today.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: bphi11ips on January 04, 2018, 12:11:46 pm
For the most part the same schools that dominated college football in the 50s and 60s are the same schools dominating today.

Only saying that back then unless we played another blue blood OOC we normally only had one team that was historically better than us.   That's a good recipe for 9-10 win seasons.

GuvHog

Quote from: bphi11ips on January 04, 2018, 11:58:43 am
Comparing Chad Morris in 2017 to Frank Broyles in 1958 is not a stretch.  Comparing Arkansas as a program in 2017 to 1958 isn’t either.

I didn't say it was a stretch. I said that's putting Chad in pretty high cotton and it is. I really want him to be THAT good but looking at his record at SMU, I'll have to see it to believe it.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

HawgPound

I will support the coach no matter who it is. I can have an opinion/philosophy that differs from theirs though.

bphi11ips

Quote from: GuvHog on January 04, 2018, 12:18:59 pm
I didn't say it was a stretch. I said that's putting Chad in pretty high cotton and it is. I really want him to be THAT good but looking at his record at SMU, I'll have to see it to believe it.

Broyles was 5-4-1 in his only year as a head coach at Missouri. They were 4-5-1 the year before and 5-4-1 the year after.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

bphi11ips

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on January 04, 2018, 12:14:35 pm
Only saying that back then unless we played another blue blood OOC we normally only had one team that was historically better than us.   That's a good recipe for 9-10 win seasons.

But that's the SEC argument, not integration, right?

You may also be surprised to see how many SWC teams finished in the Top 20 from 1958 to 1989. The SEC was better, but not vastly superior the way some here believe. The SEC West from 2000 to present may be the best division/conference college football has ever seen from top to bottom.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

The OTR

I'm all in right now like most of you.  When he inevitably runs off into a ditch with a motor scooter, acts like a fool in a press conference, gains 150 pounds, loses 8 games in a season or otherwise acts like a buffoon on the sidelines or in public I will pile on like the rest of you.

31to6

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on January 04, 2018, 09:11:06 am
It seems so easy for a lot of fans to go 100% "all in" on whatever coaches the PTB present us with.  I was probably all in for Petrino, critical to say the least on Bielema, cautiously optimistic on Morris while waiting to see his staff intact and how he manages the transition. 

Do you prefer to just trust the decision makers and throw your complete support behind their man or do you like to look at the information available and form your own opinions?  At what point in time do you give full support or pull your support.
I am all in.

Barring complete disaster, which I have no reason to expect, CCM should get 5 full years to make his mark.

I will use the same criteria:
Year 1: no expectations, a bowl would be a plus
Years 2-3: bowl game, steady progress and improvement,
Years 4-5: i expect to be able to compete with any SEC team; would like to see at least one exceptional year (10+ wins), overall SEC record (whole tenure) should be => .500 which means some years are 5-6-7 wins to balance out worse years..
Year 6+: Hopefully stability sets in and floor becomes more like the current ceiling. 7 wins would be disappointing at this stage and the right collection of players (big instate class?) should be able to get to Atlanta

GuvHog

Quote from: 31to6 on January 04, 2018, 12:40:44 pm
I am all in.

Barring complete disaster, which I have no reason to expect, CCM should get 5 full years to make his mark.

I will use the same criteria:
Year 1: no expectations, a bowl would be a plus
Years 2-3: bowl game, steady progress and improvement,
Years 4-5: i expect to be able to compete with any SEC team; would like to see at least one exceptional year (10+ wins), overall SEC record (whole tenure) should be => .500 which means some years are 5-6-7 wins to balance out worse years..
Year 6+: Hopefully stability sets in and floor becomes more like the current ceiling. 7 wins would be disappointing at this stage and the right collection of players (big instate class?) should be able to get to Atlanta

Arkansas returns 73 players from last year and 16 starters. Chad has inherited a good situation at Arkansas and I believe his Hogs will surprise some people this year.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

247Hog

I trust the decisions until i have a reason not to.
If there's one thing any of you should know as hog fans, brace yourself for disappointment and never get your hopes up.

It could be raining female body parts outside and we'd all be hit in the head with a pecker - Dmaxfan

31to6

Quote from: GuvHog on January 04, 2018, 12:50:33 pm
Arkansas returns 73 players from last year and 16 starters. Chad has inherited a good situation at Arkansas and I believe his Hogs will surprise some people this year.
I agree and I am cautiously optimistic. I think we could be anywhere from surprisingly good to very good.

But I can't hold a first year coach responsible for any particular # of wins.

If you look at coaching hires, there is no real correlation between performance in year 1 and overall performance. For every coach that rolls in and wins big from the very start there are two who seem great at first but can't sustain a program.

Likewise, often really excellent coaches struggle in year 1 for a variety of reasons (roster churn, too much change too fast, humans make mistakes, unable to get prefered staff, etc).

247Hog

Quote from: oldhawg on January 04, 2018, 10:42:44 am
Good analysis and opinions.  Stadium should be "rocking" next year with anticipation of better things to come.  Razorback football had certainly entered the doldrums with the thought of Bielema returning for another year.
Optimism should be higher, even among the naysayers.

This ^ Second half collapses was physically inadequate to blame but also mental. I believe players didn't trust in the staff and the half time adjustments. Next season players will start fresh and believe they can win after halftime.
If there's one thing any of you should know as hog fans, brace yourself for disappointment and never get your hopes up.

It could be raining female body parts outside and we'd all be hit in the head with a pecker - Dmaxfan