Just not a fan of Jimmy Dykes

[sickboy]

His faith and his political views don't line up.

Glad he's back at ESPin.
Jimmy is his biggest fan.

#talkinghead

Thank god that someone out there can separate their faith and politics.

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

Don't care about the kneeling or the politics.  He was a horrible coach and a self righteous pompous two faced a$$ that acted one way in public and another way behind closed gym doors.  Basically as a man he was endowed with his status as the patriarch by Gawd.  Didn't earn respect thought it was bestowed upon him.  Players acted in kind.   

[rtr]

I just wish the guy would quit talking about "shot selection". Makes me believe he doesn't believe in our team we have. Mike gives our guys the green light more often than not and it's our style

Right out of the Eddie Sutton coaching manual.

[greasy_corner]

"Paddle faster boys, I can hear the Banjos!" 

Has to be one of the worst hires in our program's history...and we've had some bad ones.

[bigred223]

Wow. Equating a bunch of spoiled athletes kneeling with the Boston Tea Party?  Moronic.

Spoiled athletes? Many of them came from nothing and have worked extremely hard to get where they are.

[WorfHog]

Today I learned Hogville thinks athletes lose the Constitutional rights when they sign on to play for a public university and are spoiled when they work 80+ hours a week for the team.

I'm not a fan of Dykes as a coach, but he seems like a decent human being. Unlike about half of this thread.

https://www.theonion.com/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-consti-1819571149

[Inhogswetrust]

Today I learned Hogville thinks athletes lose the Constitutional rights when they sign on to play for a public university and are spoiled when they work 80+ hours a week for the team.

I'm not a fan of Dykes as a coach, but he seems like a decent human being. Unlike about half of this thread.

https://www.theonion.com/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-consti-1819571149

When you are a part of a team, organization or employee of  business you do not have the constitutional right to do anything you want without possibly suffering consequences from whoever is in charge.

P.S. They do not do 80+ hours a week either. They do a lot of hours but not 80+.

[Science Fiction Greg]

It's such a dumb argument.  No one is saying they want to remove a constitutional right.  What people are saying is the coach shouldn't allow it.  Those are not equivalent.  If a player walked up to the opposing coach and called their mother an awful name before a game, I think I would be comfortable saying the coach should not allow that.  I also think this would have nothing to do with constitutional rights.

And before you say "oh so you're comparing calling the coach's mom a name to kneeling for the anthem," no, I'm not.  And if you do think that I am, you don't understand at all what I'm actually comparing.  For example, substitute literally any action a coach should not allow a player to do in that example and my point holds true.

The constitution argument is both a strawman and a red herring.

[popcornhog]

Seems like you the one with their panties in wad.

Touché.

But honestly when Tim Tebow recites scripture, it shouldn't bother you. If he wants to share his faith, I don't have a problem with it. Same goes for the players who want to stand up for social and racial justice or for players who want to raise awareness for the Boys and Girls club or for fallen soldiers or for whatever else is important to them personally.

I don't understand why any of the above bothers folks.

[popcornhog]

It's such a dumb argument.  No one is saying they want to remove a constitutional right.  What people are saying is the coach shouldn't allow it.  Those are not equivalent.  If a player walked up to the opposing coach and called their mother an awful name before a game, I think I would be comfortable saying the coach should not allow that.  I also think this would have nothing to do with constitutional rights.

And before you say "oh so you're comparing calling the coach's mom a name to kneeling for the anthem," no, I'm not.  And if you do think that I am, you don't understand at all what I'm actually comparing.  For example, substitute literally any action a coach should not allow a player to do in that example and my point holds true.

The constitution argument is both a strawman and a red herring.

That's debatable at a public college, actually. But it is definitely a red herring in the NFL context.

[Science Fiction Greg]

That's debatable at a public college, actually. But it is definitely a red herring in the NFL context.

It's not debatable.  A coach has a right to control behavior in a venue like this.  If he did not, he would not be capable of doing his job.

[popcornhog]

It's not debatable.  A coach has a right to control behavior in a venue like this.  If he did not, he would not be capable of doing his job.

I thought you were making an actual legal argument earlier. My bad.

[Science Fiction Greg]

I thought you were making an actual legal argument earlier. My bad.

No, there are numerous others trying to make a legal argument.  I have merely said no one is trying to argue the legality of protesting, just like no one would be arguing the legality of acting disrespectful to the opposing coach.  The claim is not that it is illegal to protest, it is that the coach should not allow it.  If there is a law stating that a coach cannot limit a player's behavior (not legally limit, but within the rules of being on the team), then I would love to hear it.

Just to be clear as possible, since this isn't a legal issue, we are not talking about criminal punishment for breaking this command.  We are talking about team rules, so a one game suspension, or similar punitive measure would be the result (even being removed from the team).  All of these are within the discretion of a coach and have absolutely nothing to do with the law.  A player can be suspended for missing curfew, he can be suspended for not following behavior protocols set forth during a game.  It's no different.

[popcornhog]

No, there are numerous others trying to make a legal argument.  I have merely said no one is trying to argue the legality of protesting, just like no one would be arguing the legality of acting disrespectful to the opposing coach.  The claim is not that it is illegal to protest, it is that the coach should not allow it.  If there is a law stating that a coach cannot limit a player's behavior (not legally limit, but within the rules of being on the team), then I would love to hear it.

Not to get too far into the weeds of Constitutional law, but the First Amendment protections on free speech only limit the government's ability to limit speech. That's why the people who say that NFL players have a Constitutional right to kneel don't have any idea what they're talking about.

However, because the University of Arkansas (or any other public school) is a publicly funded (aka "government") entity, there is certainly an argument that University officials (IE coaches) do not have the power to limit a player's political speech.

I'm greatly oversimplifying it, but there is ample precedent to at least make this argument intelligently. I'm not certain that it would be a successful argument, but it might be.

[popcornhog]

No, there are numerous others trying to make a legal argument.  I have merely said no one is trying to argue the legality of protesting, just like no one would be arguing the legality of acting disrespectful to the opposing coach.  The claim is not that it is illegal to protest, it is that the coach should not allow it.  If there is a law stating that a coach cannot limit a player's behavior (not legally limit, but within the rules of being on the team), then I would love to hear it.

Just to be clear as possible, since this isn't a legal issue, we are not talking about criminal punishment for breaking this command.  We are talking about team rules, so a one game suspension, or similar punitive measure would be the result (even being removed from the team).  All of these are within the discretion of a coach and have absolutely nothing to do with the law.  A player can be suspended for missing curfew, he can be suspended for not following behavior protocols set forth during a game.  It's no different.

You added a second paragraph after my last response. Breaking curfew is not considered protected speech. Even if it were, the curfew rules would merely be analyzed under a rational basis test for legality, whereas political speech would get strict scrutiny treatment.

Unless I'm missing something. Which I well could be.

[Science Fiction Greg]

You added a second paragraph after my last response. Breaking curfew is not considered protected speech. Even if it were, the curfew rules would merely be analyzed under a rational basis test for legality, whereas political speech would get strict scrutiny treatment.

Unless I'm missing something. Which I well could be.

Breaking curfew is merely an example.  It could be anything, such as cursing during press conferences, speaking disrespectfully to opposing players, even talking back to the caoch, etc.  IANAL and don't pretend to be, but I would be blown away if a coach were not allowed to control these behaviors.  Quibbling over "political" seems to also be a red herring, unless we want to get into whether or not this is even a political issue.  Honestly, if it is considered political, pretty much anything could be.  Cursing your coach out could be protected under the guise of speaking out against systemic overbearing coaches or some nonsense like that.  This is just a red herring.

I guess if someone wanted to make the argument and actually follow through in a court, it might be interesting.  I will just stay with my idea that it's nonsense until that day.

[popcornhog]

Breaking curfew is merely an example.  It could be anything, such as cursing during press conferences, speaking disrespectfully to opposing players, even talking back to the caoch, etc.  IANAL and don't pretend to be, but I would be blown away if a coach were not allowed to control these behaviors.  Quibbling over "political" seems to also be a red herring, unless we want to get into whether or not this is even a political issue.  Honestly, if it is considered political, pretty much anything could be.  Cursing your coach out could be protected under the guise of speaking out against systemic overbearing coaches or some nonsense like that.  This is just a red herring.

I guess if someone wanted to make the argument and actually follow through in a court, it might be interesting.  I will just stay with my idea that it's nonsense until that day.

To be totally honest, I thought you were trying to make a Constitutional argument earlier. I now know that you are not, so never mind.

The primary point that I was making is that the Constitution does apply to Universities but not to the NFL.

[Science Fiction Greg]

To be totally honest, I thought you were trying to make a Constitutional argument earlier. I now know that you are not, so never mind.

[Iwastherein1969]

You pansies and your kneeling. You protest more than the kneelers.

We don't protest over the fallen bodies of the brave men who have given their lives so that you can make such an insanely idiotic remark as you did in the post above.

[shown006]

Here's his coaching record at the U of A:

Overall- 43–49 (.467)
Conference- 15–33 (.313)

[LRrazorback]

Jesus was not a Republican two thousand years years ago, and he wouldn't be one now.

And before you say they didn't have Republicans back then, they were called Pharisees.

So he would've been a liberal democrat?  Ha

[IronMountainHog]

Here's his coaching record at the U of A:

Overall- 43–49 (.467)
Conference- 15–33 (.313)

Pretty similar to Bret and his wonderful record of 29-34 overall and 11-29 Conference. Really sad when Jimmy Dykes with no coaching experience has a better winning percentage that you. Jeff Long was the worst evaluator of coaches in the history of NCAA sports.
           

[popcornhog]

So he would've been a liberal democrat?  Ha

I can't imagine he'd be a member of a political Party or partake in American partisanship in any way if he was an American living in 2017.

[ShadowHawg]

Pretty similar to Bret and his wonderful record of 29-34 overall and 11-29 Conference. Really sad when Jimmy Dykes with no coaching experience has a better winning percentage that you. Jeff Long was the worst evaluator of coaches in the history of NCAA sports.
           

Dykes was an assistant under Sutton at Kentucky.

[IronMountainHog]

Dykes was an assistant under Sutton at Kentucky.

As a head coach, not at Shiloh or as an assistant. I should have clarified.

[East Clintwood]

Here's his coaching record at the U of A:

Overall- 43–49 (.467)
Conference- 15–33 (.313)

That's a typical record for a Jeff Long coaching hire.  Jeffy has a special gift for evaluating coaching talent.

[J-Five]

Why we get upset about players sharing their religious faith or making a stand for social justice, etc is beyond me. Sometimes I agree with players'/coaches' politics and sometimes I don't.

What I DO NOT do is get my panties in a wad when I disagree with my coaches or favorite players on political and religious topics. I respect athletes and coaches for their athletic and coaching abilities — I'm not looking at them as if they are Congressional candidates.

I just don't get it.

TOTALLY AGREE!!!

[tolerati]

Glad he is gone. He is okay as a commentator.

[Razorbackers]

Today I learned Hogville thinks athletes lose the Constitutional rights when they sign on to play for a public university and are spoiled when they work 80+ hours a week for the team.

I'm not a fan of Dykes as a coach, but he seems like a decent human being. Unlike about half of this thread.

https://www.theonion.com/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-consti-1819571149

You just learned that today?

[AlmaHog2011]

"Paddle faster boys, I can hear the Banjos!" 

Has to be one of the worst hires in our program's history...and we've had some bad ones.

What the fook are you talking about? Paddle faster you think you are being funny? Has nothing to do with anything other than showing what you are.

[AlmaHog2011]

Today I learned Hogville thinks athletes lose the Constitutional rights when they sign on to play for a public university and are spoiled when they work 80+ hours a week for the team.

I'm not a fan of Dykes as a coach, but he seems like a decent human being. Unlike about half of this thread.

https://www.theonion.com/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-consti-1819571149

Umm no clue you have no clue...80 plus hours is what a student working his way through college has to do. I had two kids go to college on basketball scholarships and there was never a week where the worked anything close to 40 hrs..And they graduated with zero student loans.
Athletes are not mistreated and not worked 80 hrs!!!!! Stupid!

[PonderinHog]

What the fook are you talking about? Paddle faster you think you are being funny? Has nothing to do with anything other than showing what you are.

Jimmy said that while doing an Arkansas game several years ago.  That's what he's talking about.

[ShadowHawg]

Watching SFA vs Mizzou. Dykes talking more than the pbp guy.

[ShadowHawg]

I can't imagine he'd be a member of a political Party or partake in American partisanship in any way if he was an American living in 2017.

This. All politicians at the Federal level believe laws only apply to their constituents.